While it is an interesting trend, there is nothing to prove that a war is the cause of the increased murder rates. There is simply no causal link between the two. It makes for a convenient correllation and that's it. There are far too many other societal factors and other independent factors that could explain the increase in murders, apart from a war thousands of miles away and economic conditions.

I can tell you that in my experience with actual murders, not ones that are just numbers on paper but actual dead bodies, that none of them had a damn thing to do with war. I guarantee you that none of the dirtbags who committed a homicide that I have been aware of or involved in had the war on his/her mind nor the economy. There are some usual circumstances, again that have nothing to do with war. For example gang killings, murders over dope or while drunk, during fights or quarrels, or for financial gain. None of those killers were angst ridden over the Bush administration's refusal to withdraw from Iraq or the invasion of Grenada, or whatever.


Examples of actual murders that I have been privy to the facts of:

• A guy kills his wife and daughter and dismembers them. The motive is still unknown but it is believed that it was to get rid of them to start another relationship. (Not Scott Peterson but sounds like it, eh?)
• A guy is confronted at a party after a girl accused him of trying to take liberties with her. He pulls out a gun and shoots 5 people, killing 1. I don't think the war in Iraq has anything to do with this one.
• A man drives up to the scene of a fight and yells at the combatants to stop. One of them pulls out a gun and shoots him dead. (War? What war?)
• A guy convinces another guy to steal the nightly deposit from his work. They meet up to split the loots and Guy 1 shoots Guy 2 in the head and keeps all the money for himself. (Greed, not war.)
• Guys go to a party and are kicked out. They go get a gun and go back for a drive-by shooting, killing a 19 year old girl standing out front. (Egos get the better of some people.)
• Four guys break into a house and shoot the occupant in the head, killing him. The motive? Not war but rather the payment of money to them by a rival of the decedent. (Over a woman no less.)
• A guy walks into an abortion clinic where his estranged girlfriend is waiting for her procedure. He pulls out a gun and shoots her because he didn't want her to get an abortion. (She lived but barely.) War? Maybe the war on abortion.
• A man kidnaps a 9 year old boy from his yard, molests him, kills him, and buries him in the desert. (Pure evil, plain and simple.)
• A man stabs his boss to death at work, leaves the body in the back of victim's SUV in a faraway parking lot. The motive was that the killer had been stealing from his boss and was busted.
• A man strangles his roommate and put her in a bathtub full of water to make it looks like a drowning. He killed her because (a) she annoyed him and (b) she had about $35,000 in cash stashed in her bedroom.

Some of these cases occurred after Iraq I but most occurred years after that war. A few occurred after Iraq II. There is no relation between war and the motives for these murders. If someone can create a link then that person should start writing fiction.

That Super Soaker would definitely hurt less. I'd choose that one to be shot by too, especially if it's filled with Patron Silver or Platinum. :mmm:

Can we somehow salt the muzzle and add some lime juice? We might want to look into marketing that puppy!! :popcorn:

Yes there is no direct link as far as the motives in individual cases go, but in a society where war is considered an acceptable thing, there will be more violence in general in the culture. This is not an American phenomenon. Look at the murder rate worldwide country by country. You will find that the countries with the highest murder rates are also the ones with large militaries and have also been involved in many wars. The countries with the lowest murder rates are the ones with small militaries and have been involved in no wars in recent times.

You will also find a trend that countries with lots of poverty also have higher murder rates than countries with little or no poverty. Again, this has no direct relationship to the motive of a specific murder, but in general poor people are much more likely to commit murder than middle class or rich people. If you look at the murder rate in cities around the United States, you will find the highest murder rates in the poorest cities.

Yeah baby!, I had the pleasure of shooting a USP 45 just before they were banned and all I can say is gimme! gimme! gimme! :D


Eric, who cares if there is a link between an overseas war and violent crime at home, this thread is about those who want criminals to have everything and those who want to give them nothing but hot hollow point treats!


"it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees"

I just found U.S. Senator Diane Feinstein's comments rather interesting. Fine for her to have a means of protection for herself. But when it's time for the average Joe to exercise his right to do so then sorry no can do.

:iagree:

I know how much of a Rosie O'Waste-O-Space you are so I thought it would be nice to add to her ever growing list of hypocrisy. Like Feinstein, Rosie is very anti-gun, and if you recall her ambush of Tom Selleck re: the NRA you'd know to what extent. Despite that though, she thinks that her bodyguard should be allowed to carry a gun. Story here.

Excuse me if i fall on the floor and split my sides. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

HK USP. An awesome weapon. I have one in .40 S&W, and as far as polymer pistols go, I prefer it to my Glock 17 9mm.

[quote=X5Jones]Yeah baby!, I had the pleasure of shooting a USP 45 just before they were banned and all I can say is gimme! gimme! gimme! :D

I like your choice of firearm... I carry an H&K USP 45 on duty, like is so much I bought one for myself......