I'm pretty certain there was order in Baghdad when Saddam Hussein's government was in power. In fact, there was order in the entire country except in the Kurdish area in the North (the one that Turkey is currently attacking), and for a 1 year period during 1991-1992 in the Southern part of the country when there was a revolt.

I'd say that over the past 3000 years, there's been more order in the Middle East than in Europe. Perhaps if you change your time period to the "past 100 years", then we could be in agreement. But if you take the 200 years before that (18th & 19th centuries), there was more order in the Middle East than in almost any other region of the world including North America.

Don't think for a second our leaving Iraq before accomplishing our mission won't be a defeat. Our enemies will be stronger and be able to recruit more terrorists knowing America has cut and run. :flame:

Unfortunately, you cannot defeat terrorism by fighting against it with a military any more than you can put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it. If you think you can prove me wrong, name one example where a terrorist group has been defeated through military means. On the other hand, I can name lots of terrorist groups that were defeated through education and more constructive methods. The most immediate one that comes to mind is the KKK.

You can defeat an army through military means. But you can only change people's opinions through education and other means, and terrorism is not an army but a problem that lies in ideology. It can only be defeated through education.

As in the example of the KKK, it took minority groups almost 100 years to figure out how to battle racism. In the end, only Dr. King's non-violence worked. 90 years of struggle and fighting back through violent means prior to 1950 accomplished nothing. The same will happen with Muslim extremism. We've already wasted 5 years, and the problem is still growing, not shrinking -- a sure sign that our methods are not working.

OMG your knowledge of history is appalling. Cynthia McKinney is a barking moonbat and you actually think she is capable of leading our country? And that she knows more about the military than any one of us?

With all due respect, I can only come to the conclusion that you are what Stalin would have described as a "useful idiot". You might want to look that up while you're rereading American history.

Where do you get moonbat juice anyway?

If you are comparing Al Qaeda to KKK you are way off... KKK was a disorderly bunch at best and was/is a racial supremisist group..They are not a terrorist organization and have/had no where near the capabiltiy that Al Qaeda does...You can't defeat Al Qaeda the same way...Although it is not abundantly clear what the correct method would be...

You need to read some history about the reconstruction period after the Civil War.. The KKK murdered tens of thousands, and at one time once assembled an army of over 30,000 men which fought battles against the Union Army. This happened in the 1870s long after the Civil War was over.

President Grant signed the Klu Klux Klan Act which ordered militias to be sent to the Southern states to defeat the Klan, but the result was that the more they fought against them, the more popular the Klan became and the more people joined. In the end, this strategy was a complete failure.

The KKK was far more powerful and far worse than Al-Queda. At its peak, KKK membership was approximately 15% of all American white men.

What lead to a decline in membership and support among the population was when living conditions became better in the South. When living conditions are horrible, people are more likely to listen to and support extremism. When people are generally happy with things, support for extremism dies out. That is the solution for "fighting" terrorism.

Until living conditions for the average person in the Middle East get better and there is peace there, support for the extremists will continue to grow.

Did you get this all from this wiki?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

Although I agree that Al Qadea and the KKK are not similar I do, however, believe that the KKK were/are terrorists.

Terrorist: a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities.

Eric...pardon me..let me re-phrase..The KKK TODAY, is nowhere near as powerful as Al Qaeda...

As far as McKinney goes...I'm in agreeance with most people on this thread..She can't lead us, and we definitley can't pull out our troops in a matter of weeks, no matter who is in charge..

No. I've read more history books than most people have read books. Contrary to what you may think, I don't look at wikis for information. I just sometimes use them as a reference when posting about something since I don't know any websites that have full transcripts of history books online. But the information I post comes from memory. Then when I'm done writing my post, I sometimes look for a reference to post along with it.