For the doctors/healthcare folks here
 

I didn't realize that there were so many healthcare professionals on here until you all came out of the woodwork for that hospital labwork thread. As for me, I am currently taking a year off from school to work in the world of public health and plan on attending medical school in the fall.

Some interesting points were made in the other thread about the future role and lifestyle of a physician and I thought I would ask statdoc/drex/soccerjunky et al. what their thoughts were on the profession. I am decidedly focused and dedicated to becoming a doctor for reasons outside of money. I am fairly confident that no intelligent person would subject his/herself to the grueling path of becoming a physician for the money/prestige factor anymore. I will be the first person in my family to pursue a path in medicine and therefore do not claim to know a lot about the innerworkings of the system.

*I will contradict one statement made in the other thread, however, that the current wave of doctors/med applicants is inferior to earlier generations. The average gpa and mcat score of med school applicants and matriculants has risen steadily in the past decade+. The increase spaces for students has remained essentially the same while the number of applicants has risen since 1996. Most recent expansion in the medical school world has come from the osteopathic medical schools which I see as an excellent and growing option as well. Therefore, there is either still some prospect of success as a doctor, or a s**tload of altruistic people wanting to help others and get paid nothing.
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/2007mcatgpa.htm

Anyways, if any of you have a second from your busy days, I would love to hear (read) your opinions/discussions on how being a doctor has impacted your life and where you see medicine going in the future. Also, what kind of medicine you practice and where would be very interesting!

Many thanks from an aspiring doc!

Superior,
I will tell you what I told someone just last week. If you think you could be happy doing anything else in the world, do it. If you can imagine yourself a stock broker, school teacher, or brickmason, do those instead. However, if you want to be a physician so badly you can taste it, don't let anything keep you from that goal. It is just too difficult to get there if you just sort of want to do it. You have to do college with all A's, med school which is 3 times harder than college, and residency which can be grueling.

I am an emergency physician, which is one of the high pressure, high liability fields. Only certain personality types do well in EM. If you like to slowly and methodically deal with problems, if you need lots of data to evaluate the problem, if you like to focus on one thing at a time, or if you are a perfectionist, you should pick a different specialty.

Good set of questions! I hope my answers help some.

lol, or how about:

1) easier tests, better test-prep solutions (ie classes), and more "weighted" ie easier classes?

2) i guarantee university courses are much less difficult than they were 15 years ago

3) remember this moment........ personally, i wouldn't advise anyone with any inclination to be financially 'content' (unless you are independently wealthy) to consider medicine

4) i didn't go into it for the money; however, having to work for the money knowing that people 10 years ago made 3-5 times as much, and having to work harder for less money, ruins it.

5) you'll wise up. hopefully before you commit too much into this.

6) if that's all that makes you happy, go for it!

Thanks for that info, I guess it is kind of shocking but I am very, if not overly, confident that medicine is what I want to do. I have been accepted to two schools so far and have interviews at a few more so at least that part of the struggle is over. I am well aware of the sacrifices of medical school and residency but I feel that the fulfilment of accomplishing all of that in the end will be worthwhile in gaining the ability to help people in such a profound way each day.

I understand your warning to not wander into medicine lightly expecting an easy road, but the description of your day sounds like something that you (but maybe not most people) love doing and even get a thrill from? At this point, EM would not be my first choice of specialty but I am always intrigued to spend a night in the ER!

But in the end, if you could do it all again, would you?

As a general surgeon, plastic and reconstructive surgeon, and USAF flight surgeon....if I had it to do all over again....I wouldn't. Lawyers and insurance and ruined it all.

Like Drex said, if its in your heart, go fot it. Otherwise, run like hell!

I'm not a doctor.. Hell, I'm not even good at science. But I can tell you this, I have MANY friends who are doctors. Guys in their mid 30's who are very hard working, very intelligent and very acclompished in their field.

Across they board, they all say if they had the chance to do it over again, they would probably have gone into business instead.

Personally, if I were thinking about getting into medicine, I would seriously consider becoming a VET. No insurance, people will pay anything for their pets.. The only downside I can see is having to put people's pets to sleep..
And it's good money !!

B

Veterinarians definitely have great jobs, if helping animals and their owners is a passion. To me, mending people would be a little better than Fluffy the cat ;).

To those who have expressed discontent as doctors, are you referring primarily to the financial/reimbursment situation or has medicine been less fulfilling in other aspects as well? I have spent plenty of hours shadowing and conversing with local doctors and have never heard such outright disaproval as this. I am well aware of the fact that being a doc is not a great money making scheme, and that in the 7-9 years it takes I know of MANY ways I could make PLENTY more money. I have come to terms with this, while knowing that those ways of earning money also come at a price (unless you're Matt White or someone like that...). On the other hand, my experiences have shown most docs to live quite comfortably and to have a rather high quality of life in knowing and loving what they do. I know doctors who work 80 hours a week to the point that they neglect their families because they love it (and also I assume for a much higher income) and other who work three days a week at a doc-in-the-box and teach at med schools on the side, because they like it.

I was just wondering if any of you could expound on the feelings you have expressed.

thanks again

Go to medical school......
 

Why go to med school... Well the answer is easy...you will enjoy what u do because of the variety of specialties available....

For instance if u don't really like working with others.... pursue pathology
if u have a big ego ....... pursue plastic surgery
if u don't want to work nights there are many options...derm,opthamology,even anes,

i'm a hospital based doc so my situation can vary based on supply / demand but u can find the perfect job for u... i have certainly paid my dues but currently
i have no overhead , no billing worries ,i rarely work past 7pm, guaranteed income , time to serve the medical staff, 10 weeks vacation,and i make 200k a year on other medical enterprises outside my primary job

IF money is the primary goal there is still hope, remember some of the disconcerted docs are ones that have been around 15 years or so because they are making less today..particularly surgeons, gi,neuro, vascular etc while primary care has risen....However the more enterprising specialists find other avenues of income (independent centers, newer procedures like lap bands and so on) , i swear the urologists re-invent the same procedure 3 times a year....

Anyways if u have a good business sense medicine could be an avenue for u..u're income will vary but in reality one only need 8-10years of 600+k income to be set..

good luck and hope u achieve u're goals

I don't know any doctors that live in cardboard boxes. And when people complain about the money, well, lets just say, they still make comfortable incomes. But they also work VERY, VERY long hours for those incomes, see lots of patients and carry a lot of risk with law suits, etc.

So doctors who worked 40 hrs. a week and made $400,000, now have to work 80 hrs. a week and make $200,000.

But here's the more important question, is it going to get worse?

Is it going to get worse??
1. The upcoming election will play a role
2. As the population ages so does % of medicare patients.
3. it will vary by specialty

There are plenty of health care dollars out there... you have to make sure u get u're piece of the pie , if not more... How do u accomplish that... well make sure u r a commodity that is sought after by patients/hospitals..

Also u can consider a locum tenen career where all u're expenses including insurance,travel,lodging , meals are paid for...assignments can be vary from 1 week to a year or longer........For instance the average weekly pay for an anesthesiologist is 7k(10k if u do hearts) for 7-3 monday thru friday... overtime is $200 an hour extra , plus if u take call add an extra $200 weekday , $750 sat or sunday just for carrying the beeper....so just with a few nights of call a week one can pull in 500k a year

i'm not sure who is working 80hrs a week for 200k..the nurse anesthetists in this area work about 50 hours a week here and pull in 250-300k

In reality tho i only really care about the next 3-4 years and not much is gonna happen in that time frame

Hey Soccer,

I wasn't suggesting that anyone makes $200k/yr. I was just illustrating that doctors are working twice as hard for 1/2 as much.

Also, I have a lot of friends who are research doctors at university's etc.
They are not pulling anywhere near the numbers that you suggest.

1. Academic (research) physicians make less but usually have less call, great benefits etc...i've heard numbers as low as 80k for a nephrologist,200k for anesthesiologist

Think of the 100s of millions of dollars that is spent on non patient care that u as a physician could tap into...
a..Locum tenen agencys... these are a group of individuals sitting in an office that have never met the administrators or physicians that they contract with....They charge 4-500 dollars a DAY for each physician on assignment...imagine a year contract, thats 170k ez money once that physicians starts.. the agency spend 90% of their time on the phone finding needs and scheduling docs... a hard business to get started but once the ball starts rolling :bling: and if the doc ever stays on permanently 30k finder fee
b....Management companies and i'll take anesthesia as an example here..hospitals(even gi centers) will actually pay companies(i could name at least 10) to come in and manage their OR/anesthesia providers in order to improve productivity...they guarantee all the providers salary and provide a substantial management fee...a few of these are owned by physicians..one is a friend of mine and he pulls in 4 million a year
http://clinicalpartners.com/Home/tabid/36/Default.aspx
c...billing companies ... another whole industry that has embedded itself in health care...the typical anesthesia bill has at least a 5% billing cost... again some of these companies are physician run

You don't have to immerse yourself fully in these enterprises but a little indulgement can bring in ez 6 figures

SJ, are you an Anesthesiologist?

Soccerjunky, if you are in anesthesia/pain, I think that is a great specialty to go into and perhaps the one I would most like to pursue at this point (many people change ideas in school I hear). There are many ways to practice from the OR to pain clinics. Many anest. I have spoken to really enjoy their work and the wide variety of procedures they get to perform. I understand anest. also specialize in all aspects of upper resp. and take over if the s--t hits the fan in the OR. I think one of my ideal jobs would be to join an anesth. group at a large hospital that shares in malpractice and schedules hours/vacation/etc.

I have read and spoken to more people, the sitiution doesnt seem as dire as some may read it, although it's certainly not what it used to be. As you said, there are countless ways to incorporate some business savy into medicine. And we should all be thankful that most physicians still remain steadfast and enjoy their work despite the growing number of hardships out of love for caring for patients and the thrill of cutting them open! The public perseption is that healthcare is a god-given right and this is reflected in the declining reimbursement for procedures, especially life saving ones. Never-the-less, a person who spends ~8 years to be able to practice while racking up as much as 200k in debt does not deserve to be called 'selfish' or in 'it for the wrone reasons' for seaking adequate pay. Medicine is also the only profession I can think of where the govt could theoretically come in and forceably reduce pay and chage the entire system. Please correct me if I'm wrong in any of these generalisations!

Thank you VERY MUCH for your input. I am very curious about the locum tenens concept you mentioned as I had never heard of that! I still very much look forward to beginning my path to doctor-dom next fall and at the end of a work day getting to go home feeling like a made a hads-on difference in some lives, literally. Best of luck to all of you in your professions and please add more if it strikes you.

Superior, after reading all your posts it seems like you really want to become involved in medicine. Don't let others deter you, if it makes you happy, go ahead and do it. :thumbup: