Iran
 

guys what are your opinion on Iran? should our "dear" president do something about it....... i know he wants too, but is there a VALID reason in your opinion? is there a threat to USA even if they happen to have nuclear material(do you think they will start nuclear war with USA?:rofl:)?


PS. don't take into consideration that terorists could steal nuclear material from Iran and use it for dirty bomb here because:
1 impossible to transport it to here
2 its easier to get it here on some college campus(proven by students doing research on this for dateline or 20/20)


please leave your opinion before and after if you watch this next 3 min vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XQan1qo8T4


goal for this thread is to know what majority of educated population thinks:thumbup:

i'll be reading up:popcorn:

No

This is a complicated one and I have a couple of thoughts on it. The majority of Iran's population is unhappy with their government (hmm, sounds like the US) so to assert any type of military action on Iran would simply turn the average citizen against the US. Irans infrastructure is crumbling at a rapid rate, this could be an area in which we make inroads with the average citizen by offering aid if/when Iran stops its various 'verbal' attacks on Israel and 'physical' support of insurgents.

As per the nuclear weapon scenario, I would not imagine it is too difficult to get radio active material into the US and detonate a dirty bomb with it. However, a nuclear missile launch from Iran to the US is impossible. There are far easier and more cost efficient ways to get nuclear material into the US then via a warhead.

Now let me watch your video...

Hmm, well that would be one scenario of events if there was a war with Iran however I think the larger problem would be Russian & China who have really tried to strike up deals for infrastructure change in Iran. China had to call off a multi-million dollar project because it 'feared' the US might do something. Russia recently, yesterday actually, stated they would start backing UN sanctions against Iran..so the support is wavering.

I'll say this though, if these 'groups' had the power to unleash a nuclear weapon on US citizens, it would have been done. Nothing would have been more glorifying for them. That said, Russia would love a reason to take its place as the big dog of the world and redeem itself for the loss of the cold war and taking a back seat to US policy. That, IMO, is the real danger. We need to make relations with Russia stable...regardless of cold war feelings and political opinion. IMO.

No

The idea that we can have nuclear weapons and the other country can't or should not is a difficult concept.

It would seem that we are saying that we are better than them?

Better...no...more responsible...arguably.

To use a historical context would you agree that we should have done everything we could do to keep nuclear weapons out of the hand of Hitler?

He was working on such a project and had a rudimentary dirty bomb under testing.

So...Keeping a bomb out of the hands of Aquavelvajihad should be a top priority.

I don't know, Mussaraffffffff has them :)

At the moment Iran has either got or is not far from having nuclear weapons of mass destruction that probably will be used.
Should an early strike happen to prevent any usage of the wmd. These are just a few of my opinions on the matter...

1. If the west move and strike Iran, then we could be in trouble and our infrastructure could grind to a halt, due to Iran cutting off the Middle Eastern oil Supply. Life in general could soon become very expensive. there would no fuel to transport all of our daily requirements, Flights would need to be cut back drastically all this to try and keep the military moving.

2. Iran may not be able to send wmd all the way to america, but what about the shipping with only about 30% percent of all cargo being checked, this would be an easy way to bring wmd to the mainland. The wmd could also be fired from cargo ships giving practically no warning to people living in the line of fire.

3. The possibility of a bloody and long war with Islamic nations could also ensue with strikes also likely on Israel any chance of peace between the middle east and the west would not be possible.

4. I do understand what you mean when you say we need to strike i do not condone what Iran are doing as they could be a very real threat, but imho I think we could be maybe moving to quickly on this matter.

These are only my opinions and by them i intend no disrespect to any other opinions held by others on this thread.

Mr Scottiecoop (Allan)

I think that the Nuclear option makes people grow-up and stops countries from attacking each other.

The trouble with this thinking is that some people are nuts or never grow up and they could kill us all.

...like N. Korea

I actually think that N. Korea is acting more mature now that they have the option.

Awfull comparison.

You might have an easier time comparing using a certain leader from the Western hemisphere.

old politcal adage - to quiet internal unrest, create an external threat - people unite to fight off an outside threat - the change in Iran has to come from within

Highly unlikely.
Iran's current president was elected.

U.S. foreign policy created the current situation. Instead of promoting true democracy in the region, they helped install a dictator in Iran, which then produced a people's revolution leading to present day Iran.

This will inevitably happen everywhere in that region because the U.S. continues to support the kings and dictators of the Middle East (Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya, Kuwait, etc.)

Wow...:confused:

So I guess given the choice you would rather have Aquavelvajihad running America.

Brilliant

He probably would of done a better job than Bush

Its scary stuff..
you guys heard Vanga's predictions right?

yes............. r u Eastrn European?

this should kill McCain's campaign
endorsement from Devil himsel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1fRjw2DsE&NR=1

yes...
I only have predictions in Russian on a jpeg
care to translate if I post them?

IMO, genuine nuclear weapons in Iran is a big fat lie. This is just an easy sell to the uneducated public.

The real threat is a new oil bourse operating in a non-USD currency. If oil starts trading in Euros or the Yen, the US (and the rest of us for that matter) will be screwed big time. I just wish Bush would be honest with us.

ps Remember those severed internet cables just before the bourse opened? Coincidence? That was the first strike.

This article is a real eye opener. It also explains why the Brits haven't switched to Euros.
http://www.energybulletin.net/12125.html

"Who controls the food supply controls the people; who controls the energy can control whole continents; who controls money can control the world." Henry Kissinger

sure

the problem is that other Muslim countries will back up Iran...

ohh and the only way to save dollar, America and prevent few wars is to make sure more people hear about Ron Paul........ i'm not saying he has to be president, but his ideas have to be heard by all Americans

Here it is:

here it plain text:

* 2008 - Покушения на 4 глав правительств. Конфликт на Индостане. Это явится одной из причин 3 - ей мировой войны.
* 2010 - Начало 3 - ей мировой войны. Война начнется в ноябре 2010 года и окончится в октябре 2014 года. Начнется как обычная, затем будет применено сначала ядерное, а потом и химическое оружие.
* 2011 - В результате выпадения радиоактивных осадков в Северном полушарии не останется ни животных, ни растительности. Затем мусульмане начнут химическую войну против оставшихся в живых европейцев.
* 2014 - Большинство людей будет страдать гнойниками, раком кожи и др. кожными болезнями (следствие химической войны).
* 2016 - Европа почти безлюдна.
* 2018 - Новой мировой державой становится Китай. Развивающиеся страны превращаются из эксплуатируемых в эксплуататоров.
* 2023 - Немного изменится орбита Земли.
* 2025 - Европа все еще мало заселена.
* 2028 - Создание нового источника энергии (вероятно, это контролируемая термоядерная реакция). Голод постепенно преодолевается. Стартует пилотируемый космический корабль к Венере.
* 2033 - Полярные льды тают. Повышается уровень Мирового океана.
* 2043 - Мировая экономика процветает. В Европе правят мусульмане.
* 2046 - Выращиваются любые органы. Замена органов становится одним из лучших методов лечения.
* 2066 - Во время нападения на мусульманский Рим, США применяют новый вид оружия - климатический. Резкое похолодание.
* 2076 - Бесклассовое общество (коммунизм).
* 2084 - Восстановление природы.
* 2088 - Новая болезнь - старение за несколько секунд!!!
* 2097 - Быстрое старение побеждено.
* 2100 - Искусственное Солнце освещает темную сторону Земли.
* 2111 - Люди становятся киборгами (живыми роботами).
* 2123 - Войны между малыми государствами. Державы не вмешиваются.
* 2125 - В Венгрии получат сигналы из космоса (опять все вспомнят о Ванге).
* 2130 - Колонии под водой (с помощью советов инопланетян).
* 2164 - Животных превращают в полулюдей.
* 2167 - Новая религия.
* 2170 - Большая засуха.
* 2183 - Колония на Марсе становится ядерной державой и требует независимости от Земли (как когда - то США от Англии).
* 2187 - Удастся остановить извержение 2 крупных вулканов.
* 2195 - Морские колонии полностью обеспечены и энергией и пищей.
* 2196 - Полное смешение азиатов и европейцев.
* 2201 - На Солнце замедляются термоядерные процессы. Холодает.
* 2221 - В поисках внеземной жизни человечество вступает в контакт с чем - то ужасным.
* 2256 - Космический корабль занес на Землю новую страшную болезнь.
* 2262 - Постепенно меняются орбиты планет. Марсу угрожает комета.
* 2271 - Заново рассчитаны изменившиеся физические константы.
* 2273 - Смешение желтой, белой и черной рас. Новые расы.
* 2279 - Энергия из ничего (вероятно, из вакуума или из черных дыр).
* 2288 - Путешествие во времени. Новые контакты с инопланетянами.
* 2291 - Солнце остывает. Предпринимаются попытки зажечь его снова.
* 2296 - Мощные вспышки на Солнце. Изменяется сила притяжения. Начинают падать старые космические станции и спутники.
* 2299 - Во Франции - партизанское движение против ислама.
* 2302 - Открыты новые важные законы и тайны Вселенной.
* 2304 - Открыта тайна Луны.
* 2341 - Нечто страшное приближается к Земле из космоса.
* 2354 - Авария на одном из искусственных Солнц приводит к засухе.
* 2371 - Великий голод.
* 2378 - Новая быстро растущая раса.
* 2480 - Столкнутся 2 искусственных Солнца. Земля в сумерках.
* 3005 - Война на Марсе. Нарушатся траектории планет.
* 3010 - Комета протаранит Луну. Вокруг Земли - пояс из камней и пыли.
* 3797 - К этому времени на Земле погибнет все живое, но человечество сможет заложить основы для новой жизни в другой звездной системе.

here is babelfish translation:


* 2008 - attempts on 4 Heads of Government. Conflict in Hindustan. This will be one of the reasons 3 - by it world war. * 2010 - beginning 3 - by it world war. War will begin during November 2010 and will be finished during October 2014. It will begin as usual, then will be used first nuclear, and then also chemical weaponry. * 2011 - as a result of radioactive fallout in the northern hemisphere will remain neither animals nor vegetations. Then Moslems will begin chemical warfare against those remaining into the living Europeans. * 2014 - the majority of people will suffer ulcers, cancer of the skin and other skin diseases (consequence of chemical warfare). * 2016 - Europe it is almost uninhabited. * 2018 - a new world power becomes China. The developing countries are converted from those exploited into the exploiters. * 2023 - a little will change the orbit of the Earth. * 2025 - Europe it is still little populated. * 2028 - creation of the new source of energy (probably, this is the controlled thermonuclear fusion). Hunger gradually preodolevayetsya. The manned spacecraft to Venus starts. * 2033 - polar ices tayut. The level of world ocean rises. * 2043 - the world economy flourishes. In Europe The Moslems Guide. * 2046 - are reared any organs. The replacement of organs becomes one of the best methods of treatment. * 2066 - during the attack in Moslem Rome, THE USA use the new type of weapon - climatic. Sharp temperature drop. * 2076 - classless society (communism). * 2084 - restoration of nature. * 2088 - new disease - aging for several seconds!!! * 2097 - quick aging is conquered. * 2100 - the artificial sun illuminate the dark side of the Earth. * 2111 - people become cyborgs (living robots). * 2123 - wars between the small states. Powers do not interfere. * 2125 - in Hungary will obtain signals from space (again everything they will recall about Vange). * 2130 - colonies under water (with the aid of the councils of inoplanetyan). * 2164 - animals convert in the the polulyudey. * 2167 - new is religion. * 2170 - large drought. * 2183 - colony on Mars becomes nuclear power and it requires independence from the Earth (sporadically - that OF THE USA from England). * 2187 - will be succeeded in stopping the eruption of 2 large volcanoes. * 2195 - sea colonies are completely provide ford both with energy and food. * 2196 - complete mixing of Asiatics and Europeans. * 2201 - in the sun slow down thermonuclear processes. It kholodayet. * 2221 - in the searches for extraterrestrial life humanity enters into the contact with which - that terrible. * 2256 - spacecraft carried to the earth new terrible disease. * 2262 - gradually change the orbits of planets. Comet threatens Mars. * 2271 - are anew calculated the changed physical constants. * 2273 - mixing of yellow, white and black races. New races. * 2279 - energy from anything (probably, from the vacuum or from the black holes). * 2288 - journey in the time. New contacts with inoplanetyanami. * 2291 - the sun cools. The attempts to light up it again are undertaken. * 2296 - powerful solar flares. Attracting force changes. Old space stations and satellites begin to fall. * 2299 - in France - partisan motion against Islam. * 2302 - are opened new important laws and secrets of the universe. * 2304 - Is opened The secret Of the Moon. * 2341 - something terrible approaches the Earth from space. * 2354 - emergency on one of the artificial suns leads to the drought. * 2371 - great hunger. * 2378 - new rapidly growing race. * 2480 - it is encountered 2 artificial suns. Earth in the twilights. * 3005 - war on Mars. The trajectories of planets will be destroyed. * 3010 - comet will ram the Moon. Around the Earth - belt from the stones and the dust. * 3797 - by this time on the Earth will perish entire living, but humanity will be able to place bases for the new life in another stellar system.

thanks for saving me the trouble

* 2008 - attempts on 4 Heads of Government. Conflict in Hindustan. This will be one of the reasons 3- by it World War.
* 2010 - beginning 3- by it World War. War will begin in November 2010 and it will be finished in October 2014. It will begin as usual, then will be used first nuclear, and then also chemical weapon.
* 2011 - as a result radioactive fallout in the northern hemisphere will remain neither animals nor vegetation. Then Moslems will begin chemical warfare against those remaining into the living Europeans.
* 2014 - the majority of people will suffer ulcers, cancer of the skin and other skin diseases (consequence of chemical warfare).
* 2016 - Europe it is almost uninhabited.
* 2018 - a new world power becomes China. The developing countries are converted from those exploited into the exploiters.
* 2023 - a little will change the orbit of the Earth.
* 2025 - Europe it is still little populated.
* 2028 - creation of the new source of energy (probably, this is the controlled thermonuclear fusion). Hunger gradually [preodolevaetsya]. The manned spacecraft to Venus starts.
* 2033 - polar ices [tayut]. The level of world ocean rises.
* 2043 - the world economy flourishes. In Europe the Moslems guide.
* 2046 - are reared any organs. The replacement of organs becomes one of the best methods of treatment.
* 2066 - during the attack in Moslem Rome, the USA use the new type of weapon - climatic. Sharp temperature drop.
* 2076 - classless society (communism).
* 2084 - restoration of nature.
* 2088 - new disease - aging for several seconds!!!
* 2097 - quick aging is conquered.
* 2100 - the artificial sun illuminate the dark side of the Earth.
* 2111 - people become cyborgs (living robots).
* 2123 - wars between the small states. Powers do not interfere.
* 2125 - in Hungary will obtain signals from space (again everything they will recall about [Vange]).
* 2130 - colonies under water (with the aid of the councils of [inoplanetyan]).
* 2164 - animals convert in the [polulyudey].
* 2167 - new is religion.
* 2170 - large drought.
* 2183 - colony on Mars becomes nuclear power and it requires independence from the Earth (as once the USA from England).
* 2187 - will succeed in stopping the eruption of 2 large volcanoes.
* 2195 - sea colonies are completely provide ford both with energy and food.
* 2196 - complete mixing of Asiatics and Europeans.
* 2201 - in the sun slow down thermonuclear processes. It [kholodaet].
* 2221 - in search of the extraterrestrial life humanity enters into the contact with something terrible.
* 2256 - spacecraft carried to the earth new terrible disease.
* 2262 - gradually change the orbits of planets. Comet threatens Mars.
* 2271 - are anew calculated the changed physical constants.
* 2273 - mixing of yellow, white and black races. New races.
* 2279 - energy from anything (probably, from the vacuum or from the black holes).
* 2288 - journey in the time. New contacts with [inoplanetyanami].
* 2291 - the sun cools. The attempts to light up it again are undertaken.
* 2296 - powerful solar flares. Attracting force changes. Begin by p

when i read things like thins and then realize that someone like McCain has a chance of becoming a president of USA, i can't stop thinking that i sjould buy enough ammo and weapons for 20 years..... there will be no zombies, there will be hungry and sick people to defent yourself from

yes, you do have a point there...

How, on God's green earth, can you make this assumption?!?!?

My post

"To use a historical context would you agree that we should have done everything we could do to keep nuclear weapons out of the hand of Hitler?

He was working on such a project and had a rudimentary dirty bomb under testing.

So...Keeping a bomb out of the hands of Aquavelvajihad should be a top priority."

Your answer

"Awfull comparison.

You might have an easier time comparing using a certain leader from the Western hemisphere".

Your words...You seem to allude in your post that George Bush is closer to Hitler than Aquavelvajihad.

I can only conclude that given a choice of two candidates one being closer to Hitler that you would choose the former.

Unless you would prefer a Hitler type in office.

Which is it now?

Why assume my preference?

Or more importantly, what does my preference have to do with my ONLY point made?

Is assuming a baseless idea, your way of sidestepping the original rebuttle I made of Bush being closer to Hitler?

It seems pretty clear you'd much rather argue over irrelevant and unreal scenarios, but I hope I'm not assuming, lol.

America should elect me, i'll agree when GTR is in front of the white house:popcorn:

You're right MoeMZA I did make an assumption. My assumption was that you would prefer a leader less like Hitler given the choice of two.

I also assumed that you were rational. I should have known better considering you were quite clear that Aquavelvajihad was less of a danger than George Bush. I guess that would be true for members of the Taliban and some who hates Bush so much they are willing to make outrageous claims just to make a point.

Won't happen again,

:iagree: Iraq had also announced the switch to the Euro standard in 2002.

Not an outrageous claim at all. One leader has sent his military to invade 4 different countries during his 7 years in office, while the other leader has not started any wars. It's quite obvious which leader is the bigger danger to the world.

So Eric...How many countries did we invade in WWII?

Sure Japan bombed us but if I remember my history right we fought in many other European countries.

You really feel America would be a better place if Ahmadinejad were president of the United States? Sad...Sad indeed.

Your lost man.

My only argument is the likeness to Hitler.

We're not debating who makes a better President for the U.S. Do you understand yet? Why you keep deferring to an impossible scenario is beyond me, but, it is quite funny though.

I think you pretty much know, that hands down, Bush will outlast any current leader in the world when comparing likeness to Hitler. Just stay away from retarded assumptions and theoreticals, and you'll have no argument.

Hey Moe...Are you by chance writing this from a tree in Berkley?

Yeah...I thought so.

Hey Moe...Open the window and let the bong smoke clear before you read this.
http://www.adl.org/NR/rdonlyres/ekmi...JADZIONISM.jpg

"Israel must be wiped off the map … The establishment of a Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world . . . The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of the war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land."

"I believe the German people are prisoners of the Holocaust. More than 60 million were killed in World War II . . . The question is: Why is it that only the Jews are at the center of attention?"

"With God's help, the countdown button for the destruction of the Zionist regime has been pushed by the hands of the children of Lebanon and Palestine . . . By God's will, we will witness the destruction of this regime in the near future."

"Today, they [Europeans] have created a myth in the name of Holocaust and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets ."

"Whether you like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation."

"A new Middle East will prevail without the existence of Israel."

"Israel is destined for destruction and will soon disappear."

"Israel is a contradiction to nature, we foresee its rapid disappearance and destruction."

Now tell us all again how much closer Bush is to Hitler. Your buddy Aquavelvajihad appreciates your support.

Assumptions are the mother of all F*&K-UPS.

Usually when one resorts to petty insults, it's an admission of defeat.

The "Isreal wiped off the map" statement has been debunked the world over. It's sad that your sources are either not up to date, or simply continue pushing this type of propaganda for sponges like yourself.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

The Actual Quote:
So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in Farsi:

"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "regime." pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).
So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh" is not contained anywhere in his original Farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's president threatened to "wipe Israel off the map." despite never having uttered the words "map." "wipe out" or even "Israel."

As for the insult. Your contention that the leader of Iran is somehow a better man than Bush was pretty insulting. I'm not a huge Bush fan but he is the President. I also have enough sense to realize Ahmadinejad is an unstable presence in the modern World.

Besides...You have something against the tree sitters in Berkley. You are assuming it was derogatory. You happened to get that right so you get one point.

LOL...Antiwar.com. That was one of many quotes. I might even give you that one. Get busy and start researching CodePink.com and Moveon.org for more of your facts there are a dozen more from our modern day Hitler.

My contention? Your getting quite desparate, just let it go.

Stop creating arguments out of thin air just to improve your position in this 'debate', IT'S NOT WORKING.

I have never made any statements about the president of Iran being a better U.S. leader (quite a ridiculous insinuation on your part) nor have I mentioned anything about him being a 'better man.' (another one)

As far as instability, Bush's foreign disasters have caused enough unrest worldwide. Iran's Ahmadinejad can't hold Bush's jockstrop in that regard.

You can go ahead with your childish insults all you want (I'm starting to think your a 13-year old), but I presented facts that dismantled your pathetic misinformation.

I'm done...You come in here with less than 5 posts under your belt and expect different. Most are avoiding this thread now. I should have shown restraint.

Guys like you are a dime a dozen and I doubt you will have the staying power.

I'm new here, great site. More importantly, I hope you learned something.

so any comments on predictions?
see post #29

As far as I know, we only invaded Germany who had declared war on us first. The other countries we fought in were our allies and we were liberating them from a foreign German occupation. Same with many countries in the Pacific.

Germany and Japan were the aggressors in WWII just as we have been the aggressor in Iraq, Afghanistan, Liberia and Haiti.

Now if another country was to invade any of those countries to fight against US troops and expell us from the country, they would be playing the roll we did in WWII.



No....what would be "sad indeed" was if those were my only 2 choices.

Since when did we invade Liberia and Haiti?

Iraq is arguable but Afghanistan and the Taliban declared war when they gave asylum to Osama after 2001.

Liberia in 2003 and Haiti in 2004. In both cases, the Marines invaded to remove the leader of the country. In the case of Haiti, Aristide was a democratically elected president.


Liberia President Taylor resigns, flies into exile in Nigeria

US MARINES MOVE INTO POSITION IN LIBERIA

Taylor leaves Liberia; three U.S. warships approach coast


Bush promises Marines to leave Liberia by Oct. 1

Rebels sign peace agreement

Liberia Says Up to 300 Civilians Killed in Fighting

Marines secure US embassy in Liberia after attack

AS MARINES REACH LIBERIA, SENATOR CRITICIZES MOVE



Marines arrive in Haiti; Aristide goes into exile in Africa

Mixed reactions to U.S. Marines in Haiti

U.S. Marines arrive in Haiti

U.S. Marine shot, police detain Aristide supporters

Aristide: `Marines forced me to leave'

MARINES BLAMED FOR HAITI ABUSE

U.S. troops in Haiti hampered by limited mandate and hostility

Alex, bear with me...I might be getting old! I enjoyed/was amazed
reading that list of predictions; what I don't get is where it came
from or what the list is in ref' to or from?

Is this the Taliban predicting stuff or some modern day Russian
soothsayer or, some political/terror list. Amazing fooking list of crazy
predictions, but I don't get the connection. Help an elder out!
BR,mD

Geez...I wonder what I was doing 4-5 years ago. I concede with that information. For some reason that did not stick in my mind; however, it does fit your definition and makes your point.

This is from Vanga.
Here's the WIKI on her:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Vanga