Bulldogs
 

I am interested in getting a English bulldog. I was wondering if anyone here had one, and if so where did you get him or her? Thanks.:thumbup:

I have two chihuahuas and I like it

My sister has a teacup chihuahua, and it is a cool little dog.

Those dogs FART a lot....

LOL

Gotta say, I've never understood the appeal of this breed.

To each their own... These dogs made their owners very happy. GO FIGURE:

http://blog.dreamhost.com/wp-content.../ugly_dog2.jpg

http://officespam.chattablogs.com/ar...gliest-Dog.jpg

That goes without saying.

You'll be sinking a lot of $ on a bulldog. I've heard they are sickly, have breathing problems, get stinky really fast, etc. A friend of a friend of mine had one and in a span of 2-3 years I think he/she spent close to $4k on medicine and operations.

On the other hand, some bulldog owners I've known have had their bulldogs live up to 10 years without experiencing many complications or problems. I guess these are the lucky ones.

I have had experience with bulldogs in the past and so I am aware of the problems that they face. That is why I am trying to find a reputable breeder, to hopefully avoid some of these problems.

Whoops, didn't answer your question. Sorry about that. I don't have any info that can help you in that department. Maybe there are like pet forums that focus on bulldogs that you can google and check out

Driver,

Sorry for busting your chops, let me see if I can help.

If I were in the market for a bulldog the first thing I would do is visit the Bulldog Club of America website:
http://www.thebca.org/

On the site, I would look for people in your area that are active in the club. It would appear they also have some sort of mentoring program:
http://thebca.org/bulldogmentors.html

Then I would look at the breeder referral list:
http://thebca.org/breedref.html

By getting in touch with mentors, breeders, and club members, I have no doubt that you will be able to find a fine reputable breeder, who confirms and health tests his stock.

I'm sure there are easier and less expensive ways to get a dog but this is the only method I would use. If you want to understand my process I'd be happy to explain it, but won't bore readers with the information who aren't interested.

Just remember, there as many ways to buy dogs as there are to buy cars. Saving some money in the short term might cost you more in the long term.

Breed clubs exist for a reason and at the very least, you can hope to be referred to someone who REALLY cares about the wellness of the breed and has interests in constantly trying to improve it with each liter.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
B

GO DAWGS!!!!

OK
 

:popcorn:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/bulldog/
Just to clarify here, by English Bulldog you mean the short squatty ones. They, by reputation, have been overbred and bred into a corner. The owners want the wide front legs, recessed nose and protuding lower jaw. All these things can be health hazards affecting their walking, breathing and eating.
:thumbup: You might want to check into the American Bulldog. This breed is the closest representation of the original English Bulldog of the 1800's. The Am. BD is a fantastic animal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bulldog
I have been aquainted with both breeds and end up feeling sorry for every Modern English BD I meet.:( They have big hearts and steady personalities but cannot even make 1 mile walk on a warm day.
I don't mean to offend with the above comments, just telling it like I see it and it is only my opinion.
Luv,
Lil Baby Knuckles

:iagree:
If you wanna do it, then do it right.

Hi,
I have an olde English Bulldog. She is going to be 2 this December and she is AWESOME! I prefer the olde english variant for the following reasons: She looks like a tough dog, she isnt mushy or resemble a melted marsh mellow, is lean and mean and has considerably less health issues then those of a regular bulldog (my friends have several). We got ours from a local breeder and couldn't be happier.

We have lots of little kids in the house, I am the father of 6 soon to be 7 and she is great with all of them. Even the little ones who like to try and ride her like a pony and pull at her ears. She just ignores them or gives a nice lick across the face which makes them laugh like crazy.

Now the the down sides: She snores (like you wont want her sleeping in your room), she likes stealing food (what dog doesnt), and oddly enough, if you put her in a kennel at night she will pee on anything you put in there. Mine is not the only one to do this either. I have talked to several bullie owners who say their dog does the same thing. Lastly she loves constant attention. You could rub her belly and pet her for 4 hours straight and she would look at you like "come on man!" if you stopped. Oh, and she is VERY stubborn! When shes not into listening she will ignore you like your not even there. But go ahead and whisper "want a cookie?" and all of a sudden she comes running like a bat of hell.

Here she is after some Christmas morning fun last year:

http://kimag.es/resizer/done/52132502.jpg


Hope this helps
BC

We have a 2 year old English Bulldog, and he is the love of my "dog" life...!

Yes he is a little smelly, and may fart, but is so precious.

As others above have posted, just make sure when you are looking at breeders, you dig in deep, and make sure they are reputable. Ask to see the mom/dad, and don't be afraid to ask about their previous litters and any health problems.

We had a small issue with our bullie in the beginning, with his skin, but turns out he was alergic to the grass in Tulsa, OK! lol, once he moved in with me full time, it was all good.

Have you spent any time around a bulldog before?

I love my Chi Chi, he is a wonderful dog!

The English Bulldog's have a lot of medical issues, their quite costly and have respiratory issues pretty much from day 1 I have heard. They are quite cute and seem to have great attitudes. One important note, besides the high medical costs is that many insurance policies have provisions that certain breeds (pit bulls etc) are factored in when determining a home's insurance cost. I'm not sure if English Bulldogs are in, but I know American Bull dogs are.

my advice is get a performance bulldog or a bull terrior/boston terrier if you are a responsible owner. I will always take performance dogs over pet breeds. my dog is CH UWPCH TT OFA-GOOD. and great with kids & old people ;)

http://formsite.us/willow.jpg

Well as long as people on the forum are trying to encourage you to get a bull terrier, I'd like to be the person who gives the opposing view.

It's not about being just a responsible owner, it's about being an extremely experienced and knowledgable handler. No casual pet owner should have one of these dogs. Only specialists with years and years of dog experience, handling, obedience, etc. should even consider one of these dogs.

And a Bull Terrier should NEVER be off leash or in multi dog enviornments.

Bull Terriers are the results of a cross between the Bull Dog and Terrier variety designed for one purpose, being better fighters. Of course we all know these dogs were developed to hunt and kill "Bulls and Bears" and were then later used to fight one another in blood sports that happened in "Pits"..

So regardless of how cute and cuddly they look or how good they are with people, these are dogs that were designed for one specific purpose, to be the best killer possible.

And while people have made them pets because of there often good nature around people:
a) they can and do sometimes snap
b) they are an extreme danger around other dogs.

So lets go further and discuss the fact that you might not be able to get homeowners insurance, that your god might kill another dog in the park, or maul your childs face. Do you really want to bring a bull terrier or a PIT fighting dog into your home and neighborhood? Or further support a breed that was only designed for it's ability to kill?

Why not get a dog from a shelter ...and do some good at the same time as getting a pet.

personally I wasn't suggesting he get a pit. But a bull or terrior breed. I would like to say though that there are hundreds of strains of APBT's and other bull breeds bred for a variety of purposes. To get a purebred dog bred specifically for fighting (purely, with long lineage) you would have to know some people. Perhaps I should explain the letter before my dog.

CH(UKC Show Champion) UWPCH(United Weight Pull Champion) TT (Temperament Tested) OFA-Good(Orthopedic Foundation for Animals health tested - Good).

Saying that they will "snap" or that they are inherently bad with other dogs can be said for any dog that isn't trained properly.

Oh jeeeshhhh...:rolleyes:
Nobody is trying to get him to do anything, it seems people have shown some options due to some potential inherent medical situations of the Eng. BD. The comments seem to steer him to look at options OR take careful steps in his search for the desired breed.
Some of your statements are true, but what you are neglecting to mention is the well documented fact that the owner overrides breed. My dog (Boxer/Pit bull) is becoming of the most well respected dogs in Santa Fe. He regularly attends the fiestas on the Plaza, the Farmer's market and daily at the 65 acre off leash dog park. Not once has he snapped or been aggressive.
There have been three dogs killed at the park by fellow dogs and the offending dogs were a Labrador, G Shepard and Lab Cross. There is not one instance of a Pit/Terrier breed attacking. My dog has been attacked by poorly socialised male dogs. When they met a similar sized male, their only response was aggresion while he was exhibiting proper greeting behavior and signaling to play. Not one was Pit/terrier. (Lab, Boerboel etc..)
For a case in point, from the 45 dogs taken from Michael Vick, 1 was put down from medical reasons, 41 were rehabilitated/adopted successfully. One is in training for a service dog and only two were considered unresponsive to training and put down.
Please, stop propagating stereotypes and teach the value of respectful training and raising. :thumbup:

:iagree:

There comes a point when you must stand back and ask yourself "are ALL these people really wrong?" When an insurance company charges you more for it? Studies have shown they have more aggression? What was their original breed created for? Ask yourself that. Why are they banned from many dog parks?

Just because you have been lucky that your dog has not attacked to me is like living in Tornado alley and saying "My house will NEVER be hit by a tornado" Just because it has not, does not make it correct and doesn't make the facts false.

Just my 2 cents...

Just to be clear. I am looking for an Old English Bulldog, that will one day look like this.

Attachment 26991

I have spent time with a bulldog before. I know that they get sick easily and have many problems. I have been researching for a while, looking at different breeders and dogs. I was just wondering if anyone on the forum could recommend a breeder.

Good Luck to you. With just a little careful research you should have a great dog and be happy.

Driver, just PM me or LilBit and we'll fill you in best we can about Bullies. We own 1 together (who is 2), and I've owned one in the past. Before I got my first, a lot of research was done. I'm not going to say anything else in the thread, but feel free to talk to people who OWN and not people who "heard".

:hijack: I am hijacking this thread, sorry, but I cannot believe there are still people around like those two closed minded indiviuals. :dunno: :rant:
The knowledgable professionals admit the Nurture outweighs nature. ANY dog is capable of aggression and attacking. NEARLY ALL working dogs have been bred for Hunting/Killing and protection or even better as war dogs.
There have been a few unfortunate instances in public places that have been blown out of scale along with the fact that the dog fighters chose the breed and popularised it for that purpose. When improperly trained and handled all dogs are respond accordingly. I have a scar on my ankle from being bit, yes, by a Chihuahua. I did not call for the breed to be earmarked, I called for the owner to be responsible.
I have not been lucky. I did the research, accepted repsonibility and worked EVERY DAY with that dog. He was an abused resuce and the behaviorist at the shelter considered him a wild dog. After showing him respect and proper training, he is a shining example of an animals' potential.
Open your eyes and your minds to the reality... Simply because some reactionary extremists have promoted some isolated instances out of proportion and does not correlate to a factual representation of the situation.
Discrimination is wrong, even for dogs. Blonboinsd, I think, has felt the hurtful sting. Have you not learned a lesson about stereotypes and closed minded individuals. Is not judging a book by it's cover wrong, or does that apply only to humans??

What you gonna name him? If i had a bulldog i'd name him sluggo.

I can't name a dog until I see him.

DriverX5,

I know what you're looking for... good luck in your quest. Those dogs can be great. I was speaking in response to ZsX who suggested you get a bull terrier.

It's funny how the Bull Terrier group always cries, "it's not a Pit Bull, it's a Bull Terrier. I'm sick of the bad PR, etc. etc."
A) So, you're saying that APBT (Pit Bull Terriers) should be feared but your dogs should not.
B) Your right, your dog is not called a "PIT BULL".. But that does not negate the fact that the Bull Terrier was developed for PIT FIGHTING and other BLOOD sports like Bull and Bear hunting and killing. Hence the name "BULL".
-- I know a Bull Terrier is not the same thing as an Amer Staf, or APBT, but those are just names of the breed. They are still, PIT FIGHTING DOGS, regardless if the name PIT is attached to the breed name or not.

A PIT FIGHTING, BLOOD SPORT, dog is still that, regardless if the name "PIT" exists in the title or not. Just like a Standard Poodle is a WATER DOG, even though it's name is not, Standard Poodle Water Dog.

In response to Real Chef:
Oh brother:

Just cause you have a mixed breed dog that is well behaved does not mean the majority of owners who have them, have or own them responsibly.

We all know that Labs and Chi's and Poodles and every other breed, can and sometimes do bite or on rare occasion, kill. But again, Bull Terriers, APBT, etc. were dogs that were designed for their ability to kill, especially to kill other dogs or big mammals.

As far as nature outweighing nurture, I'm sure that every parent that has a child killed by a Bull breed thought the same thing. What's that quote I always read in the paper, "Family pet" "insert bull breed here" mauls child"..
"Our dog never showed any sign of aggression."

Any dog can bite or suddenly show aggression, but the damage that a Bull terrier is capable of inflicting because of what they were bred for is much more severe. BLOOD SPORT DOGS.. BLOOD SPORT DOGS.. BLOOD SPORT DOGS.. BLOOD SPORT DOGS.. BLOOD SPORT DOGS..

And all the breeding and kisses in the world ain't going to diminish the breeds ability to fight, mame and kill. It's in it's DNA. Just like it's in the DNA of a dog that points, to be a pointer.

So even if it's desire to hunt, kill and mame, has been REPRESSED, it still exists. And all those experts who argue that it's nurture are the same people who argue, the chicken came before the egg. There is no indisputable evidence that supports this claim. Quite the contrary. i can find many instances where a great family pet has snapped and killed.

You say you were bit by a Chi in the ankle. What if that attack came from a Bull Terrier? What damage would have been done as compared to that of a Chi? Would you rather be attacked by a Lab or a Bull Terrier? I'd take the Lab. I could kick the shit out of a lab, no problem... A Bull Terrier, I'm not so sure, it would probably maul me to death. Again, they were bred for their ability to fight, kill and because of it's muscle density and strength.

You ask me to open my eyes to the reality. The reality is, I've met some great Bull breeds. But I won't let them play with my dogs, I don't trust them and I have personally seen Bull dogs kill. An imagine I wish I could get out of my mind. (just last week an autistic woman with 4 Pit Bulls showed up at the local dog park. One of her dogs killed a 14 year old Daschund.) I also saw a Bull breed kill a mutt in Washington Square Park NY. And another Bull had to be put down 4 months ago because it attacked a puppy in another LA dog run. I missed this attack by minutes but saw the blood everywhere.

You ask me to open my eyes. Everywhere I look I see unqualified, untrained, people who own these dogs and don't understand, they don't belong in multi dog environments, they don't belong off leash. Their potential to kill is too great.

There is a reason why other breed owners like myself support BREED SPECIFIC LEGISLATION, it's not because of the rumors, it's because of what we know and have seen with our own eyes.

P.S. - because I often get caught up in the BULL BREED argument, I saved this post from another website..

Here is my point, EVEN OTHER PIT BULL OWNERS DON'T AGREE WITH YOU:

here is a conversation I find quite interesting as it gives both sides of Pit Bull owners.. So if Pit Bull owners can't agree on the dogs behavior and breeding, why should you expect anyone else to agree with you:

I was informed of a Pit Bull forum that has some definitive problems.
I joined this forum to see for myself.
What I have found, in my opinion, is sickening.
Below I will list some of the comments that have been made to others on thread titled:
"Would you report illegal dogfighting?" - I think you should know that even though the poll says the results are "yes" the people who actually spoke their mind on the board, well most of them have said "no"

I'll keep the usernames anonymous for now.

Let the comments begin *Note none of the following comments were made towards me. My convo's don't come until the end*:

Anonymous 1: Have you read the history of the APBT? Matching is what made this breed what it is. You don't have to LIKE it, you if you don't ACCEPT it, maybe this isn't the right breed for you.
You should also try to learn the difference between fighting dogs and matching dogs. There is plenty of info on both if you're willing to take the time to learn.

Anonymous 2: What most fail to realize, in a proper and real "fight/match", there is no need to save the dog. The dog is happy, excited and loves what they are doing in the pit. The whole saving aspect comes from today's society and their need to humanize the situation and play hero.

Anonymous 3: I don't think game testing or matching a dog should be illegal anyways. For that matter I don't think most recreational drugs should be illegal either. I'm not a fan of helmets or seat belts. Gambling and prostitution should also be legalized. I think that all Americans who do not have a history of violence or mental illness should be able to walk around armed at all times to not only protect themselves from theft and harm, but to also protect the good Ole USA from threats both foreign and domestic. I think people should be the masters of their own destiny and other peoples morals should not be imposed.

Anonymous 4: If you take the dog aggression out of a pit bull, or attempt to anyway, you open it up to a slew of other issues including human aggression. I'm sorry, but I'd rather keep this breed true-to-standard and not screw it up. The hard work the forefathers of the breed took to make this breed as human-friendly and stable as they did. In all seriousness, folks. LEARN your dogs' roots. Learn your breed. This is not a breed for everyone and many people on here clearly didn't do their research and would prefer to have a Golden Retriever in a pit bull suit. I, on the other hand, would prefer a PIT bull.
This is in response to someone saying you can train the dog aggression out of a dog:
Oh, totally! Because it's ALL in how ya raise 'em.
*that was sarcastic if you didn't get that....*
And now back to another comment she made...
I'd like you to come to an ADBA show and tell someone with a very hot pit bull that they can work their dog using treats and "watch me" to get them to focus. They'd probably laugh. I'll be honest. I have a VERY hot pit bull. His name is Ryker. He hates many...many dogs. While food is an excellent motivator in low-stressor situations, the possibility of taking a chunk out of another dog is far more appealing.
This is in response to someone saying that thier Pit was 2 years old and hasn't shown any dog aggression...that maybe he will one day, but so far nothing and they'd like to keep it that way:
This comes from breed experience and breed knowledge and the reality of owning a breed that things Fido down the street would make a lovely snack. Your pit bull is a juvenile and hasn't reached full maturity.

Anonymous 5: Dog fighting is cruel and inhumane....(this was an opinion from another person on the thread)
This was his response: Well this is an opinion and not a fact. In your opinion it is cruel and inhumane... In my opinion it can be done in a way that makes it no different than humans engaging in a mixed martial art contest (UFC)...

Anonymous 6: this is in response to someone asking how everyone seems to just KNOW that a pit WANTS to fight - that it is in their genes to just want to fight:
Its in their genes. It makes them WANT to do it. Just like its in your genes to want to have sex. You WANT to do it.
Regardless you cant just train it out of them. They want to attack other dogs, they have a prey drive. Right? They are more than likely DA. Its something every APBT owner knows and understands.

Anonymous 7: Dogfighting is illegal for a couple of reasons.....
1. People whine too damned much and think of them as children
2. People do it for the WRONG reasons, the dogs are not treated and they are made to stick it out regardless....some people actually can make it inhumane, others know what they are doing.
If you want to argue the fact that there is no right way and it is ONLY WRONG, then you really need not own the breed, because after all, THIS IS what made them what they are today and if it does not continue "the right way" then the breed WILL CHANGE, how dramatically I have no idea, but it will change. Now, as far as people not wanting to fight their dogs, honey, most will not because they do not like it, the others will not because it is illegal, because others whined about it, and some people like me still would if it were legal....yes that is right.....If it were legal to fight THESE dogs, I sure as hell would....why? Because that my friend is what they were not only bred for, but it is what they love.

A little bit of convo:
ME: (in response to Anonymous 7's comments) - No, I disagree...the dog loves to please the owner..
The dog doesn't love to have it's face torn into...there is a difference.
Pits were originally bred to please their owners, to be loyal. If you have them in a pit and are cheering them on, of course they'll keep going. It isn't for the love of the blood - it's for the praise.
Anonymous 8: Lady, you dont know what your talking about. If you had any tangable experience with the gamedog you wouldn't be saying that! It's not my oppinion either it's fact! There are different versions, ppl perceptions of what the APBT should be. I have a hunch that say's you dont or have never owned a bona fide gamedog.
My response: Yes, actually I DO know what I am talking about.
But there is no way - not in THIS LIFETIME OF MINE - that I would ever need to have any experience with a gamedog.
Have you owned a "bona fide gamedog" - if so, what was the purpose of having it do what it did?

Me: (in response to Anonymous 5's comments)- All of this "lab in a pit suit" or "G.R. in a pit suit" is just absolutely stupid. Why would we WANT a dog to continue it's bad rep? To the people out there who are saying "if you want a sweet docile dog go get a lab not a pit" - what are you telling the rest of the public?? Pit's aren't all scary and tuff. Personally, I think the people saying this are the ones who shouldn't have the breed - you're doing nothing for it.
And to the people who are saying that GSD were not bred to be police dogs??? GSD's were developed in the 20th century for herding AND police/military work.
Here's a question to those of you who think that those of us who don't agree with dog fighting are just "whinny owners who think of our dogs are children" - What would be the purpose in legalizing dog fighting???
I can not BELIEVE that there are people on this forum who would fight their dogs if they could. How sick is that?
Anonymous 8: Dogfighting is a combative sport. Not all dogs are bred to be pets. The ppl that do breed to meet the standard of the breed, realy have no interest in your type of dog. It has no value or use other than it being a pet.
My response: And not all pits are bred to fight. That is wrong.
It's people like you that give the breed a bad name, saying that the only purpose for their existence is to be fought...
I know about it's historical purpose, and it wasn't initially to be fought. Maybe you are the one who should do some reading.

Anonymous 9: The bulldog was bred for other reasons (bullbaiting, farm work, guardian-type work). The terrier was bred for other reasons (ratting, vermin hunting/catching). The American Pit Bull Terrier was bred specifically to be the "perfect" pit dog....fighting dog. End of story. Everything in history, words and pictures both, explain it very simply and in detail.
The fact that you choose to ignore what is known and make up your own stories does worry me, especially if you are out trying to "educate" others on these dogs.
Though this pissed me off, I choose to just ignore that last sentence...and responded with: I've yet to see where it says that APBT were bred only for this purpose. In any breed profile I have read it has stated that in the 19th century the English crossed the bulldog with the terrier and then this dog was brought to the U.S. It was developed (I'll repeat myself as I have already said this in previous posts) as a guard dog, a cattle catcher, a livestock driver, and a COMPANION. Is is, however, most notorious for pit fighting. This breed was not first developed for this reason though.
*NOTE: Though it was later named for it*


So my point is REALCHEF,
Even people who own PitBulls, Bull Breeds, etc. don't agree with you.. Of course these are people who would like to see their dogs fight, but at least they have a realistic expectation of how to handle the breed. And if they own the dogs, breed the dogs, sell the dogs, don't for just a second you think, it would be a good idea to listen to what THEY have to say about the breed AND NATURE vs. NURTURE...

Again, from their lips, to your ears !

Firstly, what I said was "my advice is get a performance bulldog or a bull terrior/boston terrier if you are a responsible owner." because I love them and they aren't riddled with health problems like the deformed & spoiled pet & toy breeds of today.

Second, a bull terrior can reference a variety of breeds. There is the Bull Terrior (or English Bull Terrior), Staffordshire Bull Terrior, Amercian Staffordshire Terrior, and American Pit Bull Terrior, to name a few.

3rd I did not say anyone should fear APBT's. My Dog is indeed called a pit bull, by many. We (UKC & ADBA purebred owners) often use the term. But should people fear my dog? Absolutely not. It was NOT bred for fighting, and I am a responsible dog owner. The problem with name association is that the term "Pit Bull" is thrown around to describe any half breed mutt who bites someone in the ghetto. Let's face it, it makes for a better news story rather than "strange looking mutt with a big head attacks".

I would challenge anyone who has a problem with bull & terrier breeds to accomplish the titles I have with my dog. Even a temperament test. Do you have any idea what that title means? A temperament test is a series of tests in which you must pass without any negative marks. The tests include meeting a series of strangers; friendly, aggressive, and neutral. As well strangers popping umbrellas in your dogs face and a starter pistol fired within 10 feet of where he or she is. If your dog has any negative reactions you fail the test. There is no doubt a problem with pit bulls today but that problem lies with the owners. Buying any "pit bull" without having extensive knowledge of the breed characteristics and responsiblities would be like me ordering a pure bred alaskan sled dog and keeping him in Florida on a chain. Do you think that dog will be bored? Maybe he will bite someone out of frustration. The problem is with the owners.

You are right that many bull and terrior breeds descend from origins in blood sport, but to assume they're all bred for that today is rediculous. The lineage of my dog consists of over 3 decades of titled working dogs in many areas of public service and extensive health testing. This is a world that you are not familiar with. What you are familiar with is those that make the news. So the truth is you know as much about pure bred Bull and Terrior breeds as you do the portuguese water dog, or any other pure breed for that matter.

Ah you see ZsX, that is where you are wrong.

I don't know if you're being serious or not, but I do know a lot about the Portuguese Water Dog, at least I hope I do, I have two of them:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...mpicgames7.jpg

What would you like to know about the PWD:
Standards? History? Origin? While I may not be an expert, I think I'm pretty qualified to discuss the PWD. After all, I have been involved with the breed for nearly 13 years..

I also don't assume that all Bull Terrier breeds are bred for blood sport, but they all descend from dogs that were, which goes back much further than 3 decades.

You also assume that I get my information from news reports that misidentify big headed dogs as Pit Bulls. Well I could understand how that assumption could fit your desire to label me as misinformed, but as you might have missed by not carefully reading my posts, I belong to other forums that discuss breeds, legislation, training, agility, etc.

I might not be a certified expert but anyone who has spent 10 seconds around me or my dogs will quickly tell you, I have a good, solid, foundation of dog knowledge, training, obedience, etc.

I don't title my dogs because I would rather spend the weekends by the pool with them. But just because I don't have a "water title" doesn't mean that my dogs can't retrieve and deliver, into my hands. I don't need a certificate to prove my abilities or the abilities of my dogs.

I'd say pictures speak a thousand words:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...eadUnder41.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ikitaSwim4.jpg

Furthermore, while I'm impressed that your dogs are tempearment tested, the majority are NOT. The majority of owners do not have stable dogs, know their breeders, get AKC titles, look at health or temperment tests. Bull breeds are bought and sold with little regard to any of the things you have mentioned besides those in the minority like yourself..

Bull breeds DO NOT BELONG in the hands of the average or even experinced dog owners. They belong in the hands of professionals only... At least that's what the Bull breed owners above say.... Their words, not mine..

p.s. - I wouldn't challenge me or my dogs to any test competitions... Until you've seen my dogs at work, you couldn't begin to understand how much you underestimated me/them....

Haha that was just the first breed to come to mind, what are the odds.
You seem to have shifted your position from bull breeds being bad, to owners being bad so I'm content with that.

Oh wow, :wow: That is funny.

Let me be clear though. I don't think Bull Breeds are "bad", but I do believe they are inherently dangerous and I think only 1% (made up number but you get my point) are actually qualified to handle the breed.

The breed is usually just doing what it is bred to do. I don't blame a lion for attacking a gazelle and I don't blame a Pit Fighting dog for attacking other dogs, (or humans)...

So while it is the owner, the responsibility will always come back to the breed, especially as they become more popular.

Here is a recent story of a young girl, her baby sitter and the neighbor, all getting attacked by a friendly, family pet, that almost killed the girl.
http://www.adn.com/anchorage/story/492069.html

Whose fault is it? The owners, they should never have had that dog, as most owners should not. I should not be seeing Pit Bulls in the park, everyday, by the average, "I want a dog" twenty something, or soccer mom. It is a speciality dog for speciality handlers....

These are specific dogs bred for specific reasons and should only be handled by specialized owners who understand the risk, potential, strengths and dangers of having a breed like this in the backyard.

Are you kidding me?:rolleyes:
A. This "forum" you joined, is admittedly and obvious to everyone except yourself, focused on dog fighting. Which pretty much negates all of your comments as nonsense. That's like talking to the 'mafia' about loan sharking.
B. Let me speak just from my knowledge and FIRST HAND experience and not what others tell me. I live daily in a city flushed with APBT. The fringes of our community are full of "fight Dogs". There has not been an APBT attack against a human for my entire experience here, 6 years.
C. I visit them at my friends' houses, at my house and daily off leash at the park and the ONLY first hand dog aggression I have seen MANY TIMES has always been from NON APBT. Each time, when speaking to the owner, it is very clear that this person is ignorant of proper raising and training. I have seen the three dogs killed by non APBT. It is the owners fault not the dogs, in those cases as well as the previous cited cases of the APBT. (see my last point)
D. I cannot think of one major Professional Canine Show or competiton that has banned the APBT and these are the people who know. These breeds outperform most breeds in MANY fields. They hold more Power Pulling national championships than any other breed and an equal many Agility championships as the other breeds. You are falling prey to sensationalist reporting feeding off some unfortunate families tragedy. Quite simply, more people are killed in Canada every year by moose than Grizzlies, but all you hear about are the Grizzlies.
E. The originators of the breed are well documanted as having ZERO tolerance for human aggression when the breed was created. Any human agg. was immediately culled. (as well as dog agg.) The sport, by the way, was where 2-3 dogs were put into a pit to fight a bull. They were good performers because of their reluctance to let go of the neck once they were able to bite it. (which would lead to bleeding or suffocation)
F. They are no more likely to attack a human as a Labrador. BTW: My Rottwieller once jumped through a screen door to prevent a Great Dane from killing me. Note: I have been attacked by a Chihuahua and a Great Dane, but I own a pit bull cross and live with APBTs every day. Are you getting the point yet. Yes, they are a strong breed, that does not make them killers.
G. My point, which you are apparently oblivious to as well, is:
Your Stereotypical and bigoted statements are no different than the stereotypes of the Irish being drunks, Mexican people are lazy etc... If you cannot see that, then I feel sorry for you and those around you.

What makes you think they should never have "had that dog". It was just a mutt. I think the problem here is the general classification of mutts as pit bulls. Saying that they're inherently dangerous is just false. We cannot generalize an entire breed as inherently dangerous. If we put enough PWD's in the hands of the youth we would surely see a general consensus leaning toward "something wrong with the dog". A main contributing factor to this of course is genetics. These dogs are so far from their well balanced ancestors that they are a different breed all together. Bred from hundreds of unkowns dogs whom had terrible characteristics and often for fighting or aggressive behavior.

I am for all working dogs, but they all need to have jobs. Sure there are enough pit/pit mixes out there that are very docile and don't need to be worked but generally all working dogs need jobs/outlets.

They're not "just doing what they're bred to do", they're with idiots who never gave them anything to do. Rottweilers were bred to herd cattle and sheep hundreds of years ago but you don't see them doing that very often. True and Pure American Pit Bull Terriers have gone through the harshest of culling throughout the centuries compared to any other breed. This culling I am referring to was based on agression toward humans. I believe it was culled out of the breed to the point where a purebred APBT is one of the worst guard dogs you can buy. This is again the distinction I am drawing between the breed, and the mutts. In 2 weeks (hopefully) my dog will have her TD (Therapy dog) title, meaning she can work with elderly & sick people at hospitals and rehabilitation centers. I can trace her lineage back to 19th century ireland, she is one of the purest APBT's in America today. Sacredly kept as pure as possible, and with responsible people. (to anyone breed-knowledgable reading this she is of Lar-San descent) What used to be referred to as a "Gentlemans Dog" is now the attraction of the youth of america.

If you really want to get a sense of the breed you should get out to some shows and see the things they are capable of. The only reason people in those circles hate us is because they can't beat us in any of the competitions ;)

glad we mention the same points, realchef =]

In response to Real Chef:

a) The forum discussed is not a forum I belong to. That was not my post. It was a post on a dog forum. And you are wrong, the forum in discussion is not a forum for fighting Pit Bulls, ALTHOUGH, it does have members who do or would fight their dogs. Just as X5world is not a forum for people who RACE their BMW's, there are people on the forum who do race their cars. The forum in question was a Pit Bull Forum, not a PIT BULL FIGHTING FORUM.

B) I'm not only concerned with APBT's attacking humans, I'm also concerned with APBT's attacking other peoples pets. And while you have never seen an incident with APBT's, I have. I have seen in NYC and I have seen it in LA. I do agree with you, that often the provoking dog is not the Bull breed, but when the Bull breed does go on the defensive, it kills. If the same attacking dog came after my PWD, there might be a need to go to the vet, but not the doggy graveyard. So again, my issue is with the potential harm the dogs can inflict, not necessarily placing blame on which breed for starting the fight. All dogs can get snappy with one another. And I have seen a HOT Pit Bull attack and kill a very friendly mutt in a dog park.

D) Of course not. They belong in shows and competitions.. Just not in the homes of the average american soccer mom with her toddlers.
-- And thanks for telling me that I feel prey for sensationalist reporting, OBVIOUSLY I'm just some hysterical spaz who knows nothing about dogs, breeds, history, genetics, etc.
(See post above of Pit Bull owners who agree with me...)

E) You don't need to tell me the origins of the breed. Clearly, I know the origins of the breed, (see above). And I have also clearly done research, read about the dogs, heritage, different points of view. So while you may not agree with my POV, for you to call me misinformed or unread is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. I have research, quotes, backgrounds, to support all of my opinions. I have, by definition, illustrated my point in an educated and professional way.. Not an emotional rant, like some people.

F) You might be right that they are no more likely to attack a human than a labrador. But a labrador has a far less chance of killing me or my six year old nephew than a PIT FIGHTING, BREED FOR BLOOD SPORT, TYPE DOG.

G) LOL. Thanks for the good chuckle on the bigot and stereotype remarks. There is a big difference between BREED TRAITS and racist, stereotype remarks. If that weren't the case, you would never know what type of dog you were getting, (size, coat, color, temperament, health disorders) So while you may consider that bigoted ??!!?? Every breeder around the world would consider it: Breed Standards. (To which there are also a category known as "FAULTS".... But I guess you're not familiar with terms like STANDARDS and FAULTS, etc...

See, that's just wishful thinking and misinformation.. The exact wishful thinking and misinformation that you accused me of before you realized I was researched and knowledable.

The "PIT BULL" in question was CONFIRMED to be a "PIT BULL"..
It was not a mutt. It was not mis-identified. It was a FAMILY PET, PIT BULL, who attacked the kid, the baby sitter and the neighbor and only stopped attacking once it was shot.

Don't spin it....

Holy crap. That's pretty impressive.

Yeah, it is quite impressive...

I wonder though how many of the dogs ancestors were used for Blood Sports?
Don't see anyone bragging:

Her Great, Great, Great, grandfather killed 15 other highly ranked Pit fighting dogs..."

probably he did, but he also played a role in the farm life of early american families. just for fun, here are some stats from the American Temperament Test Society.

Breed Name
PORTUGUESE WATER DOG
Tested
147
Passed
113
Failed
34
Percent
76.9%

Breed Name
AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER
Tested
586
Passed
494
Failed
92
Percent
84.3%

www.atts.org/

not to be personal I'm just messin with ya, but apparently more APBT owners have had their dogs tested than PWD's :)

B-line:
That forum does appear to be visited largely by dog fighters although not promoted as such. There may be people who race their BMW's in the x5 Forum even thugh it is frowned upon. There are forums where racing is a larger topic of conversation than here.

Your statements are generalisations and discriminatory. (bigoted and stereotypical) BSL is as wrong as segregation. Yes, I said that. The ramifications are on no way equal as human rights but the principle holds tight.

I never said you are unread and uninformed. Quite the opposite, you seem to have quite a good grasp of the community as a whole. If more people had your level of knowledge, things would be looking brighter. Your POV might be off kilter but... whatcha gonna do. There is large difference between my knowledge of breed standards/faults and your willingness to write off an ENTIRE breed.
I have let out a little emotion here. Listening to people express a similar POV as you is frustrating. Our main dog park's largest single participating breed is the "pit bull". I walk amongst them daily, no leashes in sight, and upwards of 100+ dogs at peak time/season. The only aggresion I have seen is NON APBT. When my dog has been attacked, he clearly defended himself but as soon and the aggressor was discouraged, he walked away.
The most famous dog at the park is Panama Pete, a resuced Pit. He is called the Sheriff. Pete is a splitter. (Knuckles is as well, of all things) Splitters step between two aggressive dogs and break up the fight. There are days when one of the two has stepped between 3-4 fights before anyone got hurt. Last Thurs, a Boston Terrier (Pedro)was going after a Shepard (of all things) and the BT's buddy was thusly running over to the Shepard as well. Knuckles Grabbed the BT by his head and set him down 2 feet away with out harm, then shouldered into the shepard to prevent retaliation. But according to you and others, what I and others see daily doesn't exist and is impossible. Your statements saying that they should not be in multi dog environments or off leash are just so ignorant of the facts and absurd.
I feel greatly for the victims of attack. Any attack is fightening and brutal. You are ignoring that there have been many people killed by shepards, mastiffs, rottweillers, Labradors etc...

WE need to acknowledge that all dog breeds can be dangerous. WE need to participate in public education and educate people to the realities. I may be fortunate and live in a forward thinking community, especially in regards to "pits", in which owner responsibility is stressed and poor behavior from Owner and dog is not tolerated. If we can teach one person a day or week, slowly everyone will be better off. I feel it is our obligation to help people with their animals when possible. Our Dog Park community will police itself. Those that behave poorly are noted. In one form or another, they are lead in a direction and hopefully their behaviors improve or they are not tolerated, and eventually asked to leave.
Look, I am no professional trainer, but I think my knowldge is sound and greater than most. I am taking the Grand Knuckler next month for his first attempt for his Canine Good Citizenship only 14 months after adopting him. Note: the shelter considered him a wild dog, a completely untrained 2 year old pit/cross who had not been castrated. If he passes, we are gonna go for Therapy dog as well. Hmmmm that would put two T Dogs with APBT lineage in the x5 forum. What are the odds.

How did an English Bulldog thread turn into a Bull Terrior/Pit Bull thread?

Regardless of breed, I believe the majority of dog attacks are because of poor training, irresponsible ownership, lack of pack leader mentality, humanizing the animal.

I am sure Ron White would appreciate it... I bet his bulldog has influenced the names of many bulldog puppies. :)

I love you man.....:thumbup:

BTW I hijacked the thread, sorry. I know, it got kinda weird. :yawn:

In all fairness, if you look at my post #11, you will see that DriverX5's question on finding a Bulldog was given an extensive answer.

So while this thread may have turned into something else, at the very least, the original question was thoroughly answered.

(I'll be responding to the last set of Pit Bull questions when I get to the office.) :stickpoke

1) I don't doubt that more APBT are tested. Do you have any idea how few PWD's there are compared to APBT? When was the last time you even saw a Portie? The breed was nearly extinct some 40 years ago with only 50 known PWD's in existence.

2) 34 PWD failed Temperament, 92 APBT failed temperament. Putting aside how many dogs were tested and percentage's etc, let me ask you a question:
- If you had to make a choice between two dogs attacking you or attacking your dog, which would you rather have go primal? A Portuguese Water Dog or a APBT?

- This is the point I'm trying to make. Some dogs were designed by breeding to kill. It is in the DNA. A Portuguese Water Dog might send you to the hospital and on rare occasion, might be able to deliver a fatal bite (though I have NEVER heard of a mauling by PWD.) But if an APBT goes primal, it's instincts know how to kill. -- So just like a APBT is not going to out swim a PWD, a PWD is not going to outfight or kill an APBT.

I don't take any of this personally but thanks for the reassurance. Also, so you know, I love all dogs and if I were in your home, i'd be rolling around on the floor with your Bully breeds. But on a MACRO scale, not a MICRO scale, I don't believe these dogs belong in multi dog environments, off-leash, or in the homes of the average american.

They are SPECIAL breeds that belong in SPECIAL homes only. They are not labs, they are not poodles. They are PIT FIGHTING dogs with the POTENTIAL to inflict serious damage on other dogs and humans.

And yes, we all know of the Lab or Poodle that killed, but those are fluke events. Animals often do what they were bred to do and people should stop being surprised when a dog that was bred to fight and kill does exactly that.

Again, you're not just arguing with me on this matter, you're also arguing with Pit Bull breeders who fight their dogs. These people, who fight there dogs are not saying, "They can and should be pets and fighting dogs" they are saying, "these dogs are following instincts, these dogs get hot, they were bred for aggression and their ability to kill."

So while they may be fighting their dogs, I would summarize they actually have a lot more experience and exposure with the breed than the casual home user who thinks their dog, "Penny" or "Thor" is just the cutest thing and would never hurt a fly.

Certainly the people who fight their dogs have the ability to assess traits of their animals. Why would you ignore what they have to say simply because they believe in matching and fighting. You can't disregard their opinions simply because you don't believe in their sports.

I don't particularly like the idea of bull fighting in Mexico, but I'd be willing to bet the people who have been doing it all their lives know exactly which bulls and which stock to put in the ring and what does and doesn't make a successful bull.

My point is, for every behaviorist that you can find that will say, they are great dogs, have no aggression and are sweet as pie, I can find a Pit Bull owner/breeder/expert that will tell you these dogs are not pets, they are fighting and killing machines and don't belong in homes of the avg. person. And I have the news articles with the kids mauled faces to back it up.

:D :stickpoke

you really do not get it B-Line. After all of my points and examples, you still are saying the same thing you said on page 1. special breed, special home, only made to kill, blah blah. The truth is your dogs cannot hold a candle to mine. The only logical explanation here would be that you've never even seen or met an APBT in person. There's no point in arguing with you anymore. It's like trying to convince a 5 year old that the boogie man doesn't exist.

Seen APBT, think there cute dogs. As I said, if I were at your house, I'd probably be spending more time playing with your dog than socializing with your friends (I love dogs, all dogs...)

But that does not change the fact that your dog is genetically derived from killers. That it's a PIT FIGHTING breed. And that doesn't change just cause you call him "Fluffy". The dog breed exists because of it's ability to kill, not because of it's ability to be a house pet.

Furthermore, again, your response is emotional. In all the communications we have had so far you have called me names. You have said:
I am hysterical because of the media,
I don't know anything about dogs,
I don't know anything about Pit Bulls,
You even said I don't know anything about Portuguese Water Dogs.
Now you say that I'm an irrational child.

In case you can't read, every single argument that you have presented I have rebutted with well researched, clearly defined, information that debunks your emotional claims. You're just pissy because you're used to arguing with people who don't know what they're talking about...
BUT CLEARLY I DO.... Not only do I know about dogs and breeds, I am the owner of a breed that almost no one has ever heard of, that you tried to use to prove your point (making you look kind of silly at the same time.)

So go ahead and pout. You're not dealing with some hysterical block bitch who doesn't like your dog because of the way he looks. You're dealing with an educated, researched, and communicative dog owner whose opinions are based on sound arguments and evidence. So, nanny-nanny, poo-poo.

Furthermore, by suggesting that my dogs can't hold a candle to yours, you are only making yourself seem like more of an emotional ass.

Yes, your dogs might kill mine in the Pit. That's what they're good at. But I don't need a title or certificate to tell me how intelligent a Portuguese Water Dog is. My dogs are obedience trained, go to agility, have a vast vocabulary which includes hand signals, verbal commands, clicker trained. They are also beautiful, warm, loving AND THEY DON'T SHED...

So again, Nanny-Nanny, Poo-Poo..
(P.S. unlike APBT who were raised to Kill in Blood Sports, Portuguese Water Dogs were used for Water Rescue....) The hero vs. the killer.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...picgames13.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...adUnder101.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...adUnder131.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...S/IMG_0547.jpg

So, you still think my dogs can't, "HOLD A CANDLE"..... :rofl:

BTW,

nice spiked chain on RealChef's Pit...

So what do you think is going to happen to the dog that wrestles with another dog with that thing on it's neck...

Clearly, based on the pictures provided, Real Chef is the perfect example of someone who should not have a dog like that. After all, he doesn't even understand the danger of having a spiked collar around his dogs neck.. Or he just doesn't care about other peoples pets.

Typical moronic behavior... That dog is going to kill something and it will probably be wearing that collar when it does.
http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/l...g?d=1221189345

OH JESUS.....
Now you are behaving like a jackass. good job.:thumbup:
The humane society has praised me for the work I have done with this animal. The trainer in the class held him up as an example of what a larger dog can be. My Vet, Groomer and two seperate overnight boarders will testify to his soundness. He has been tested and passed. Also, passed training class as the #1 dog and I am confident he will get his Canine Good Citizenship award next month. Hardly an option for an unstable terror. Then his Therapy Dog cert. will follow. (hopefully)
As noted briefly earlier, my dog is a splitter. He steps into a fight, and breaks it up. That collar:
A. was initially a joke
B. Is not sharp, I play and wrestle with him in short sleeves and it has no effect (but wait, I'm a Moron and don't notice my own blood)
C. it has prevented damage to him and will stay.

As far as him killing someone....you are out of your mind. He protects the little dogs at the park from aggressive dogs, and twice, a small terrier and a Lahsa were just barking at everything and snapping at other dogs, chasing them. Then they went to him and actually bit him on the face but he simply shrugged them off and walked away.

We have hit the core issue here (by reading your own posts)
You have seen attacks by APBT and damage by them.
I have BEEN ATTACKED as well as seen Attacks and damage by everything BUT APBT.
The difference is that I am not calling a ban on every breed which has done damage. You are calling for a ban on an entire breed, and even my dog, which you have never met.

I would like to see what would happen if your dogs were brought out of the yard, daily and into the real world. Unless you are socialising them daily it would be hard for them to behave as soundly as mine. I have and will continue to expose him to crowds, bands, food courts, markets and even the 500 person public pancake breakfast (where he did not eat any food, children or adults, hell... he never even begged) Do your dogs have a Canine Good Citizenship, Do you know what it is? Could they pass a therapy dog test. I am confident that within 6 months mine will have both. Maybe, the hospital will be a good place for him to find easy prey and a quick, infirmed snack??? hmmmm.....

You admit that you are afraid of the specific breed and that irrational fear is driving your prejudices. And worst of all, you are letting your fears control your opinion and WORST YET inflicting your fears onto others.
I will gladly give you my name, phone number address and welcome you and your dogs anytime you are in the area.

:locked: :rofl:

Ohhhhhh boy... You're just an accident waiting to happen, aren't you....
The sad thing is, you don't even know it.

A. Joke or no joke, your dog is wearing spikes.
B. Just because it's not sharp doesn't mean it can't impale.
C. Typical response... Why should you care about anyone else's pet other than your own? You're exactly the type of person, if I saw you in the park with your Pit Bull and spiked collar, I'd leash up my dog and walk away. You're a walking hazard.

Also, just a little information about Dog Behavior which clearly, you are clueless.
- The little term you like to throw around, "SPLITTER"... That's a cute way to express it. He "Splits" up the fight. What you don't realize is, DOGS ARE NOT HUMANS. You are thinking like a human, not a dog.

So ask yourself this, what behavior is your dog doing when he is "SPLITTING"
-- Well, in case you haven't figured it out yet, he is exerting ALPHA MALE DOMINANCE BEHAVIOR and telling the other dogs that he is in charge and they're not allowed to fight right now.
---- So, what do you think is going to happen when your ALPHA MALE dog who clearly shows dominant behavior in the park by splitting is going to do, when he eventually tries to split up a fight with another ALPHA MALE dog.

Geee, I never thought of thought of that!

So, when these dogs are fighting and you go to grab your dog or the other dog that is fighting your dog, how do you expect it to defend itself if your ALPHA MALE DOMINANCE dog is garnished in SPIKES... And how do you expect to pull your dog off if he's garnished in spikes? (No you shouldn't try to grab a dogs collar in a fight, but sometimes you need to restrain your dog during or after...) Real SMART!! you're just racking up the genius points today....

You are so ignorant... Any dog behaviorist will tell you that "splitting" as you so call it, is nothing more than an ASSERTIVE, ALPHA MALE, DOMINANCE trait....

Welcome to the world of actually discussing dogs with someone who knows a little something... YOU ARE A DANGER.. YOU'RE SPIKED DOG IS A DANGER... And what's worse is, you don't even know it.

Wow I really wasn't expecting that. As I said I'm done trying to convince you, you have a right to your opinion but you seem to have lost control. I don't see anywhere did I call you any names, as you put it. But until you have any kind of titles on your dogs then no, you can't compare. By next year I will have my Agility title making my dog an official "superdog" with the UKC. So there goes your whole argument of "only bred to kill".

1) First you call me misinformed
2) Then you accuse me of being brainwashed by the media
3) Then you challenge my knowledge of dogs, breeds
4) Then you call me a five year old
5) Then you challenge the quality of my dogs

All I have done is garnish the forum with well documented and accepted literature and research about your breed. But no need for me to argue with you. Just in case you missed it the first time, here is what PIT BULL breeders have to say about their own dogs. And considering the quantity of dogs they have whelped vs. you're "super dog", I'm more inclined to listen to the experts:

From the mouth of Pit Bull breeders:

"Have you read the history of the APBT? Matching is what made this breed what it is. You don't have to LIKE it, you if you don't ACCEPT it, maybe this isn't the right breed for you."

"If you take the dog aggression out of a pit bull, or attempt to anyway, you open it up to a slew of other issues including human aggression. I'm sorry, but I'd rather keep this breed true-to-standard and not screw it up."
"LEARN your dogs' roots. Learn your breed. This is not a breed for everyone and many people on here clearly didn't do their research and would prefer to have a Golden Retriever in a pit bull suit. I, on the other hand, would prefer a PIT bull."

"I'd like you to come to an ADBA show and tell someone with a very hot pit bull that they can work their dog using treats and "watch me" to get them to focus. They'd probably laugh. I'll be honest. I have a VERY hot pit bull. His name is Ryker. He hates many...many dogs. While food is an excellent motivator in low-stressor situations, the possibility of taking a chunk out of another dog is far more appealing."

"This comes from breed experience and breed knowledge and the reality of owning a breed that things Fido down the street would make a lovely snack."

"Its in their genes. It makes them WANT to do it. Just like its in your genes to want to have sex. You WANT to do it.
Regardless you cant just train it out of them. They want to attack other dogs, they have a prey drive. Right? They are more than likely DA."

"The American Pit Bull Terrier was bred specifically to be the "perfect" pit dog....fighting dog. End of story. Everything in history, words and pictures both, explain it very simply and in detail.
The fact that you choose to ignore what is known and make up your own stories does worry me, especially if you are out trying to "educate" others on these dogs."

Thank you and good night!

I don't see any name calling, once you get some titles on your dogs then we can talk.

GO DAWGS!!!

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f8...ics/UGAVII.jpg
Introducing UGA VII!!!

Awesome

look Lady, you are out of your mind....
 

Here are some photos, just from half an hour ago from the dog park here. What more can be said. You need to stop drawing conclusions and making inflammatory personal comments.
A. corgi PUPPY
B. 2 Corgi Puppies
C. stranger/lady
D. Strange new dog
E.Muhc larger Irish wolfhound.

he was diagnosed by two seperate bahviorists, who both described him as non aggressive, and a splitter. Splitters are anomolies. He does not assert himself as dominant. CAN YOU NOT READ NON+AGGRESIVE?? Look at the photos. No leashes, no fear from anyone.
Why can you not accept the facts I am handing you?
I am so beyond done with this.

I'm sorry, but an Irish Wolfhound is one of the ugliest freakin' dogs out there - they always look like a dirty stray!!!

They are Pit Bull breeders. You are a one Pit Bull owner. To use your words, your dog is an anomaly. Even a broken clock is right twice a day..

But enough about what I think. here is what Pit Bull Breeders think:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
"Have you read the history of the APBT? Matching is what made this breed what it is. You don't have to LIKE it, you if you don't ACCEPT it, maybe this isn't the right breed for you."

"If you take the dog aggression out of a pit bull, or attempt to anyway, you open it up to a slew of other issues including human aggression. I'm sorry, but I'd rather keep this breed true-to-standard and not screw it up."
"LEARN your dogs' roots. Learn your breed. This is not a breed for everyone and many people on here clearly didn't do their research and would prefer to have a Golden Retriever in a pit bull suit. I, on the other hand, would prefer a PIT bull."

"I'd like you to come to an ADBA show and tell someone with a very hot pit bull that they can work their dog using treats and "watch me" to get them to focus. They'd probably laugh. I'll be honest. I have a VERY hot pit bull. His name is Ryker. He hates many...many dogs. While food is an excellent motivator in low-stressor situations, the possibility of taking a chunk out of another dog is far more appealing."

"This comes from breed experience and breed knowledge and the reality of owning a breed that things Fido down the street would make a lovely snack."

"Its in their genes. It makes them WANT to do it. Just like its in your genes to want to have sex. You WANT to do it.
Regardless you cant just train it out of them. They want to attack other dogs, they have a prey drive. Right? They are more than likely DA."

"The American Pit Bull Terrier was bred specifically to be the "perfect" pit dog....fighting dog. End of story. Everything in history, words and pictures both, explain it very simply and in detail.
The fact that you choose to ignore what is known and make up your own stories does worry me, especially if you are out trying to "educate" others on these dogs."

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

Oh, and take this advise for what it is, one dog owner to another. Do yourself a favor and remove that spiked collar from your Pit Bulls neck. You are putting your dog in danger, you are putting other dogs in danger and you are putting other dog owners in danger.
- One of these days I hope you realize that dogs are not humans and the type of consistency that animals have is vastly different than people. Don't believe me, ask Zigfried and Roy, or the Crocodile Hunter, or that bear trainer in California that got mauled by the actor bear that's been in 20+ movies. Any animal can go primal regardless of training or temperament. That spiked collar is a potential danger and can seriously hurt if something extreme should happen.

Horses get spooked, dogs get spooked, etc. They are animals and even temperament testing can not 100% guarantee.

Be smart, be cautious and at the very least, take the spikes off your dog..

Done with .....
 

this thread.
Good luck to you.
Remember, I have had a 200# pound dog at my throat. I am very aware of potential. My other dangerous dog (Rottie) stepped in.
BTW thank you for assumming my level of intelligence is substandard.:thumbup: I have read volumes of info on the APBT breeds and offshoots (as well as mastiffs etc..) Also spoken to actual owners with their dogs face to face. I did not research a potential of this nature by reading a website. (especially one that harbors and encourages fighting animals) When I feel the need for knowledge, I go to the source. I never rely on others to tell me what to think.
Nature is fickle. My best friend was killed in a golfing accident. There were no warnings in the rule book. People are killed by bee stings. I choose not to hide from life. I accept it's pleasures and trappings.
This guy has earned my respect and everyone he has met so far. The only human who could be in potential danger is the one sneaking around my house at night. Simply because he just needs to slow them down while I chamber a few rounds.:p:
I have thought about the collar and hope this one meets with your approval.
Ciao

B-line
 

Answer this question seriously.
Could your PWDs have done this?
After hiking on a hot July Saturday, we sat on and he was under the bench; joining a lady and her adopted 5 yr old Chinese girl. The girl asks to pet Knuckles and we say ok. She pats him on the head and he just smiles and the two of them sit there for a few minutes. She then picks up a stick and shows it to him. He gently bites it (stick, not little girl, J.A.) and she pulls on it 'til it breaks. The little girl then grabs another stick and shows it to him and he bites it, she says, "good by Knuckles, bite." and breaks the stick in his mouth then pats him on the head. Subsequently, she ends up clearing everystick available in the same fashion, patting him on the head and saying good boy every time. Finally he didn't want to do it anymore and turned his head. She tried again, he turned his head the other direction and looked down.
He then gets up and moves some dirt to cool off and lay down. She rolls over to him and says. "let me help you Knuckles" and moves some dirt from around his paws as he watched. From watching her, he moves forward and then helps her move the same dirt.
hmmmm......
I think he is worth the risk, I will bet on him vs your PWDs (actually 90% of all dogs) in any situatuation, any day. I bet on him every day actually.
Hey you know what, I don't even recall having to wash any of the little girls blood and torn flesh off his collar??!!!

A potentially killer dog in the hands of an owner who insists on garnishing him in weapons....

And you wonder why people like myself do support Breed Specific Legislation. It's not just because of the breed, it's because of the owners. And you are exactly the type of owner we loathe in the dog park where I live.

I don't care how sweet or friendly your dog is, NO dog regardless of breed, belongs wearing weapons. Especially not a dog that was developed to kill other dogs..

You just don't get it. This is not about you, this is not about your dog. I would say the same thing to a LAB owner if they garnished their dogs in weapons also.. The only difference is, the LAB is not as much of a POTENTIAL threat as "KNUCKLES"...
You give your dog a fighting name, you garnish him in weapons, and then you wonder why other dog owners consider him a threat... It's not because of the media, it's because of selfish, owners who don't care about the danger they are putting other pets in.

Your little anecdotes about how cute and sweet your dog is means nothing to no one. You are setting a bad example for your breed and causing further hatred of the breed based on the irresponsibility of the owner and your desire to accessorize your dog wearing weapons.

You want people to be less afraid of your dog, think about renaming him "Tulip" and dress him accordingly:
http://www.pitbulls-fighting-for-the...sBunnyEars.jpg

Though I still could argue, a WOLF in sheeps clothing is still a WOLF...

Nobody who has ever met my dog considers him a threat. Maybe you should before judging, spouting off and making a complete ass of yourself in a public forum.
The problem with simple and closed minded people is they have pre-drawn conclusions and skew everything to satisfy their irrationalities.
Forget the fact that they would ever try to experience something first hand, such as my dog before judging and or striking out. It seems though, their simple little minds cannot handle the fact that there might be positive evidence which does not meet their pre-drawn conclusions.
OH AND they ALWAYS have to have the last word. It seems to make them feel as if they are indeed superior.
G.F.Y.

Real Chef,

You need not tell me I'm an ass. I know I'm an ass. See, happy now?

But that doesn't change the fact:
A) Your dogs breed was genetically designed for the purpose of killing.
B) No dog regardless of breed or Temperament should wear a spiked collar, especially if they are regularly exposed to multi dog enviornments.
C) It is the irresponsibility of Pit Bull owners such as yourself that are further perpetuating the negativity towards the breed by:
I - Giving them "killer" names like "Knuckles"
II - Being misinformed about Dog behavior such as exhibiting Alpha Dominance
III - Garnishing them in weapons to make them see even tougher.

You're a fantastic spokesperson for the breed, :rolleyes: Keep up the great work...

You are unbelievable.
I never judged YOU. I commented on your statements being assinine. How could I judge you as a person, I have never met you. You, however cannot give the same courtesy.

A. Knuckles. He was a rescue. This means he had a name, but he could not tell us. I spent 6 weeks looking for a response from him to not only common dog names but general words in conversation. He showed no appreciable reaction to anything. I started down list of dog names and the one he responded to was Knuckles. That simple. It was also fitting that he was very stubborn when I first got him and begin training. Currently, there are a few people who call him cuddles instead. They realize a name is just a word. There is a long history of dog names being deliberately goofy, funny or off the wall. How many Chihuahua's have you met named Rocko. Get real, give me a break. (to this day, he reponds to , 'hey' better than anything)

B. Collar will stay for three reasons:
1. None of your concerns have been a reality. Do you not think I have watched for any adverse effects? I appreciate your advice.
2. As I stood over the uncastrated Boerboel attacking him and watched him defending himself against a much larger and stronger animal, I saw the Boerboel go for his neck and the collar prevented it. see pic
#3 of a Boerboel. Also, the uncastrated Standard Poodle and Great Pyrenees, that have attacked, frequent the park. While I try to avoid their regular times, and keep a constant watch over my dog, I cannot see everything or be everywhere.
3. See pic #1. My house is on the lower right of the pic. It backs against the river basin (dry most of the year). After my last dog (Rottie) died. (old age, 14 yrs to be exact, but I guess that's because I am an irresponsible dog owner) The vagrants began sleeping under the trees and it was beginning to be frequented by drug addicts. (I have found used needles) Since he has been around, the drug use, sleeping, drinking and partying in the river has dropped from 3-4nights per week to barely once per month. Also, The river trail is used extensively during the daytime by people to walk their dogs and as a shortcut. I have not had to ask anyone to climb off my fence lately or get out of my yard either. I am not sure what part the visual plays, but certainly it does to some degree. If it can prevent me from one day having use stronger measures to protect myself, property and family, then it will most certainly stay.

I am SO aware of Alpha Dominance, you don't even know. Years ago I rescued my first dog, a male, uncut, Himalayan Mastiff. And that my friend, was an education. I returned him to his original owner years later, after his personal issues were worked out, a much better animal and me a better person as well. Regarding K, I have sought counsel from multiple PROFESSIONALS in different fields. But you still insist.
The history of various dog breeds is focused on Hunting/killing, Human Killing(war dogs), personal protection and herding. APBT are not the only breed with this background. The difference comes on the fact that their owners were not using their skills for subsistence/survival. That should not condemn them any more than a Dogue de Bordeaux, Mastiff, Bull Mastiff, Boerboel, Ridgeback, Afghan, Poodle, Terrier etc... It should condemn the humans using them for entertainment. Most certainly, the modern dog fighters who look for, train and encourage the dog/dog aggression, human aggression. A few bad apples have spoiled the bushel in the publics eye.
BTW, the history of spiked collars is one of protection, not as a weapon. The one he has protrudes but ends in a dull nub, 1/8 inch wide. I wrestle and play with him daily and have never been bruised, cut or injured in any way. Nor have the dogs, children and people that play with him.
I welcome you to meet him. He will blow you away.

here ya go....
 

Look lady,
This is my last post regarding this, I have wasted enough time trying to reason with an unreasonable person.
We were at our local Railyard Park, Art Center and Shopping opening this weekend. Attended by Thousands of people and hundreds of dogs. I asked for a picture, and here it is. (google it)
BTW the first female officer says, " I LOVE his collar!" shows it to the 2nd Female officer and she loved it as well, "that is so different, looks good on him...) Then the guy on the left asked what his name was and wheni told them Knuckles, they all just laughed, thought it was funny.
What more could you want to see. The officers watched us off and on for two days, and when I asked, they were more than happy to show an endorsement.

Pit bull kills 7-year-old Minneapolis boy at home
http://www.startribune.com/local/11588186.html

Owner Watches As Pit Bull Kills Her Puppy
http://www.ketv.com/news/12418100/detail.html

Pit Bull Attacks & Kills Burlington's Family Pet
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/a...storyid=103833

Pet pit bulls maul NLV 4-month-old to death
"mauled by her family's two pit bulls"
http://www.lvrj.com/news/28344539.html

Woman killed by her two pit bulls
http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2...7570044360.txt

12 year old boy killed by family pet Pitbulls in California
"12 year old boy was killed by the family pet Pit bulls"
http://blogs.mainetoday.com/dogslife/001842.html

Pit Bulls in Watauga Attack and Kill Another Dog
http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2008/01...er-dog-in.html
"These are, all these dogs we have, are family dogs. And they've been around kids and family and all that.

Pitbull Kills Owner
"A 75-year-old woman was killed by her pet pitbull Monday."
http://www.italymag.co.uk/italy/sard...ll-kills-owner

Six-Year-Old Killed By Pit Bull Pup
http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...y_Pit_Bull_Pup

Pitbull kills family poodle
http://www.wptv.com/news/local/story...7-6749ae11c084

6-YEAR-OLD BOY KILLED BY PET PIT BULL, POLICE SAY
"mauled by his family's pet pit bull."
"Family members told
police the 1-year-old dog did not have a history of aggressive
behavior."
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/local/9521032.html

Pit bull kills toddler
http://www.charleston.net/news/2007/..._toddler24970/


Man forced to kill pit bulls 2 dogs shot in Winslow after killing pony,
http://www.centralmaine.com/news/sto...dog_atta.shtml

Pet pit bulls kill Florida woman
"why a pair of pit bull terriers with no history of violence suddenly turned on their owner Tuesday, killing her"

Hey! here's another crazy Pit Bull owner who cares more about her pet than anything else, including her children:
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/06/13/164853.php

Shall I go on?

Is it 'natural instinct' that causes these dogs to snap? Katherine Houpt, animal behaviorist at Cornell University's School of Veterinary Medicine told The Leader that this breed of dog was not meant to be a family pet.
“Their primary function is to kill other dogs and other rapidly fleeing animals, like cats.”
She went on to say that they are most aggressive over food, though.

Don't argue with me REALCHEF, argue with the facts:

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada
September 1982 to November 13, 2006
– Merritt Clifton --

Reports are logged as received, and the current log is printed out as
requested. Compiled by the editor of ANIMAL PEOPLE from press accounts
since 1982, this table covers only attacks by dogs of clearly identified
breed type or ancestry, as designated by animal control officers or others
with evident expertise, who have been kept as pets. Due to the exclusion
of dogs whose breed type may be uncertain, this is by no means a complete
list of fatal and otherwise serious dog attacks. Attacks by police dogs,
guard dogs, and dogs trained specifically to fight are also excluded.
"Attacks doing bodily harm" includes all fatalities, maimings, and other
injuries requiring extensive hospital treatment. "Maimings" includes
permanent disfigurement or loss of a limb. Where there is an asterisk (*),
please see footnotes. If there are more "attacks" than "victims," it means
that there were multiple dogs involved in some attacks. If the numbers of
"victims" does not equal the numbers of "deaths" and "maimings," it means
that some of the victims -- in attacks in which some people were killed or
maimed -- were not killed or maimed.

Breed Attacks doing Child Adult Deaths Maimings Notes
bodily harm victims victims
[dogs X victims] [--------Individuals---------]
Akita 48 32 14 1 39
Akita mix (inspecific) 1 1 0 0 1
Akita/Chow mix 3 3 0 0 3
Akita/Lab mix 1 1 0 0 1
Akita/terrier mix 2 1 0 0 1
Airedale/boxer 1 1 0 1 0 #
Airedale 1 1 0 1 0
Australian blue heeler 3 1 1 0 2
Australian cattle dog 1 1 0 0 1
Australian shepherd 6 4 0 0 1
Basset/GSD mix 1 1 0 1 0
Beagle 2 2 0 1 1 #
Belgian shepherd 4 1 3 0 1
Blue heeler 2 0 1 0 1
Border collie 1 0 1 1 1 #
Briard 2 0 1 1 0
Brittany spaniel 4 1 0 0 1
Bulldog (American 4 0 3 2 2
Bulldog (English) 16 8 3 1 9
Bull mastiff (Presa Canario) 30 10 13 6 16
Bull mastiff/German shepherd 2 1 0 1 0
Buff mastiff/Rottweiler 1 1 0 0 1
Boxer 31 6 12 2 12 #
Boxer mix 1 1 0 1 0
Cane Corso 4 1 2 1 3
Catahoula 3 0 1 0 1
Chow 49 34 12 6 32
Chow/husky mix 2 2 0 1 1
Chow/Labrador mix 4 4 0 0 3
Chox mix (other) 2 2 0 0 2
Cocker spaniel 1 1 0 0 1
Collie 3 3 0 0 3
Collie/retriever mix 1 1 0 0 1
Coonhound 1 1 0 0 0
Dalmatian 3 3 0 0 3
Dalmatian/Akita mix 1 1 0 0 1
Dauschund 2 1 1 1 2 #
Doberman 11 7 4 3 7 #
Doge de Bordeaux 2 1 0 0 1
East Highland terrier 1 0 1 1 0 #
Fila Brasiero 1 1 0 0 1
German shepherd 63 42 17 7 38
German shepherd mix 31 21 7 6 19 #
German shepherd/husky mix 4 3 1 1 2
Golden retriever 6 6 0 1 4 #
Great Dane 24 5 4 2 9
Great Pyranees 1 0 1 1 0
Greyhound 1 1 0 0 1
Husky 39 23 4 13 8
Husky/Malamute mix 2 2 0 0 2
Husky/Labrador mix 1 0 1 0 1
Jack Russell terrier 2 1 1 1 0 #
Labrador 26 18 9 2 20 #
Labrador mix 10 9 1 0 9 #
Labrador/boxer mix 1 0 1 0 0
Lab-Doberman 1 1 0 0 1
Lab-St. Bernard 1 1 0 0 1
Malamute 8 7 1 3 3
Mastiff 16 11 4 4 9
Norwegian elkhound 1 0 1 0 1 #
Pit bull terrier 1110 495 397 104 608 #
Pit bull boxer mix 5 1 2 0 2
Pit bull/chow mix 5 2 3 1 3
Pit bull/Doberman/GSD/Lab 2 2 0 0 2
Pit bull/GSD mix 1 1 0 0 1
Pit bull/Lab mix 15 10 4 3 8 #
Pit bull/Rott. mix 39 7 3 2 8
Pit bull/Sheltie mix 1 1 0 0 1
Pit bull/Weimaraner mix 1 0 1 0 1
Pit mix unknown 3 2 0 0 2
Pointer mix 1 0 1 0 0 #
Pomeranian 1 1 0 1 0
Poodle 2 1 1 0 2 #
Pug 1 1 0 0 1
Pug/Rottweiler mix 2 1 0 1 0
Queensland heeler 3 0 1 0 1
Rottweiler 409 231 109 58 223 #
Rottweiler/chow mix 1 1 0 0 1
Rottweiler/GSD mix 13 7 5 2 10
Rottweiler/Labrador 7 6 1 0 7
Russian terrier 1 0 1 0 1
Saint Bernard 6 3 0 1 1
Sharpei 4 4 0 0 4
Sharpei/Rottweiler 2 1 0 0 1
Sharpei/unknown mix 1 1 0 0 1
Sharpei/Labrador 1 1 0 0 1
Springer spaniel 3 4 0 0 4
Tosa 1 1 0 0 1
Weimaeaner 1 1 0 0 1
Wheaten terrier 2 1 0 0 1
Wolf hybrid 71 65 3 18 43 #
Total: 2209 1142 658 264 1323

Pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios, and their mixes:
1638 776 537 172 893
74% 68% 82% 65% 68%

Analysis
The tallies of attacks, attacks on children, attacks on adults,
fatalities, and maimings on the above data sheet must be evaluated in three
different contexts. The first pertains to breed-specific characteristic
behavior, the second to bite frequency as opposed to the frequency of
severe injuries, and the third to degree of relative risk.
Of the breeds most often involved in incidents of sufficient severity
to be listed, pit bull terriers are noteworthy for attacking adults almost
as frequently as children. This is a very rare pattern: children are
normally at greatest risk from dogbite because they play with dogs more
often, have less experience in reading dog behavior, are more likely to
engage in activity that alarms or stimulates a dog, and are less able to
defend themselves when a dog becomes aggressive. Pit bulls seem to differ
behaviorally from other dogs in having far less inhibition about attacking
people who are larger than they are. They are also notorious for attacking
seemingly without warning, a tendency exacerbated by the custom of docking
pit bulls' tails so that warning signals are not easily recognized. Thus
the adult victim of a pit bull attack may have had little or no opportunity
to read the warning signals that would avert an attack from any other dog.

Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is
relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment,
someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the
actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a
Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that
has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as
their victims are paying the price.
Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be
handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special
requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other
animals, if they are to be kept at all.
--
Merritt Clifton

Unbelievable, your self righteousness knows no bounds.

EDUCATION is the answer. Legislation will not solve the issue (e.g. prohibition). You are letting your fear drive your actions instead of really looking at the big picture and trying to find out what can make a difference. You are making reactionist statements, generalizing and not opening your mind to ideas which offer positive results. You resist these ideas simply because they counter your base fear and innate need for immediate action. Don't let little hurdles get in the way of winning the race. The race for Canid respect. These creatures deserve a decent life. A life not at the hands of bad people. Removing the dog/dog aggressive animals and human aggressive animal is a historically proven technique. Only when the general public refuses to harbor the bad people, will they be exposed and the real work will begin. The petty chip on your sholder is only magnifying the intentsity and diverting resources from the only real solution.


There are as many examples of other dogs killing. You have stated YOU are afraid of this breed and that is driving your psychosis. MANY more people will be killed by drunk driver's, cancer, lightning etc.... But since you have made up your mind that you are afraid, then everyone else should be as well. You will not be happy until everyone has to abide by your wishes, because you obviously know what's best. I just finished reading a major piece of modern literature where this was a theme. It is required reading for any modern intellectual trying to make sense of social structures, interactions and you are really keeping to some of the core themes, congratulations. Oh, the title of this book is Mein Kampf. Have you read it? You should, genocide, censorship etc.. your favorites, are all there.

Forget the fact that you would experience this 'collar' first hand realize that is indeed not a dangerous item. No, you once were told by someone thay are dangerous, so you make ALL collars fit this purported description. I have had to take a baseball bat and remove a drug addict from my yard and also 2 ohters while climbing my fence, when I had no dog. Since I have had him, our little area is clearly cleaner and safer. Why can you not even recognize that? Wait, because it might somehow legitimize my argument and send your little closed mind spiraling out of control and you might fall of your ivory tower.

I am not holding my dog up as an example. You, however, are ignoring your own previous admittance that it is the owner not the dog and then stated the most horrible and again irrational things about one hell of a good animal. I am trying to get you to realize the positive animal he is since YOU PASSED JUDGEMENT on my animal without meeting it. Again, you blindly adhere to irrational notions without bothering to step outside your little world and look at our entire world. It's so dichotomus, rare beauty and sublime expreriences tempered with evil, hatred and foul beings.
Censorship, of any form is the most destructive concept known to man. You are so far up on your Ivory tower, that you cannot even think of considering the true ramifications of your actions. Our community is working hard with educatinal programs concerning the proper care and treatment of not just APBT but all animals. We have seen an improvement. There is a radio show every week where they go over each situation case by case. The dogs are much improved, but mostly, the community ia able to raise awareness of abuse/fighting etc.. and how it affects the entire chain. Education is the answer. But it takes a lot of work. BSL is unconstitutional and the lazy way out. Teaching that Fighting is wrong and changing the public perception of dog fighting will begin to remove the bad people and the dog's they create which cannot rehabilitated. I note again that of Michael Vick's 45 dogs, 41 were successful rehabs, 1 was ill and 2 were considered too far gone.

My puppy JUST GOT BIT by a Pit Bull.

Yes, believe it or not... I just went to lunch with a friend at an outdoor cafe in downtown Los Angeles.

When I got there, the couple sitting across from me had two dogs, A two year old Lab mix and a 14 month old, female, Pit Bull.

Believe it or not, in person, I try very hard to hold no prejudice towards individual dogs. I asked both owners if I could "treat" their dogs with chicken nibbles that I carry in my pocket and they both excitedly said "Yes".

Then the owners with their two dogs moved tables because they wanted to smoke.

Again, I gave both dogs the benefit of the doubt.

As the couple exited the restaurant, with absolutely no provocation, with my dog lying down, belly on the floor and head up, the PIT BULL attacked Maggie.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ggieeyesup.jpg

Luckily:
a) the owner had her pit on a pronged chock collar
http://www.dgsdogtraining.com/mediac...ong~collar.jpg
b) The pit only got ahold of a little muzzle and some hair.
-- Otherwise this report would be coming to you from the vets office.
(Did I happen to mention I was eating and had a knife in my hand. Had that attack gone on one second longer, I would have stabbed the Pit Bull.)

Yes, I swear to god, this is what just happened, 15 minutes ago.

At the very least, the owner of the Pit Bull has the graciousness to emphatically apologize on her way out.

-- By the way, I know you're a relatively new member and probably don't know I'm Jewish. But your use of "Mein Kampf" to try to label me as some sort of Nazi is so offensive, I don't even know where to begin.
(p.s. - No, I would never waste my time reading Mein Kampf when there are books like The Diary of Anne Frank or Dawn and Night by Elie Weisel that could occupy my bookshelf.)

Sounds like you're getting pretty desperate and are reaching for thin air. And using anti-semitic material to validate your points.

My arguments are based on facts, your arguments are based on emotions.

My dog was just bit by a Pit Bull. Your dog is wearing weapons.

My statements contradict everything you have said:
- There are animal behaviorists (at Cornell Medical School) who 100% agree with me.
- 78% of all serious injuries, killings, etc. come from Bull breeds, esp. Pit Bulls.
- The information I have presented has been well researched, delivered, is not mass hysteria coming from some paranoid person, as you would like to have people believe.

READ THE FACTS.....

So, maybe you spend a little less time reading Nazi propoganda and a little more time educating yourself on:
A) How your use of holocaust and Nazi and Hitler propaganda is intrepereted by Jewish readers.
B) What the statistics of Pit Bull attacks really are.

Wow... you two are long winded ;)

I think its time for a "splitter" to step in and seperate you two! :D

Thanks.:cheer:
you got a leash on that penguin?:bustingup

A. Sorry your dog was attacked, mine has been too. It sucks.
B. My reference holds but I will qualify for you. It was neot meant Anti-Sematic. The core theme of the Holocaust (I am German, my Holocaust history is quite thorough) is the unjust blanketed suppression and genocide of a group(s). You are indeed proposing a similar philosphical answer to a complicated problem. (granted, on a much different level) I brought this up to address the fundamental argument here that we have not discussed.
I know the facts, but I see a vastly different and long term viable solution. This is the core argument. APBT are half the attacks it is well publicized. Outlawing them and others will not offer a long term solution.
Education is the key. Bringing out the dirty laundry that has built with these animals can bring about positive change and improve our communities as a whole.
BTW: fear is ok. Your fears are just that, items that cause you great concern. It is human nature to be afraid of rational and irrational things. Unortunately all our fears are not the same. When shared they often do not reach the same depth. I do not share the same fears with you regarding this subject. There are millions of others as well who do not. They answer is to identify the core issue and deduce a fair, equal and viable solution.
I am fortunate and have an animal who exhibits positive traits and behaviors. He proves it every day. Should he suffer because of those that don't. The question is that simple. The answer is not.
I will Pm you with my personal info. this has gotten WAY out of control and these nice people need not be subjected to any more of our pettiness.
:yawn:

I have tried! But I'll be damned if EVERYTIME he is left alone, HE EATS IT!!! Think I might have to start tasing him or something :D

No joke, I think you guys should keep going. No reason to stop when it's a civil debate with facts. Good thread from a reader's pov.

Realchef, please use spaces between thoughts/paragraphs. :)

V,
Typing is not my strong suit. :( I'm lucky to put my own shoes on. :rolleyes: Now a verbal debate, I like my odds on that. :p: :fencing:Grammar, spelling and FORMAT:tapping:.........whew, that's alot. :hitanykey:

Q: How come pit bull owners always say, "My dog is a sweetheart?"
To understand the experience of owning a negatively perceived dog, Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy did a study on pit bull owners. Researchers found that owners of pit bulls directly feel the stigma targeted at their breed and resort to various tactics to lessen it.
One of the strategies included emphasizing counter-stereotypical behavior. For instance, to offset the popular idea that pit bulls are fierce and predatory, respondents in the study voiced just the opposite: "My dog is the biggest sweetheart in the world."
A related strategy involved emphasizing that behavior, not appearance, expressed their dog's true nature. Such behaviors often involved an overwhelming amount of affection toward people. This strategy is illustrated in the much-repeated phrase: "My dog wouldn't hurt a fly, but she might lick you to death."

Q: Do pit bulls bite more than other dogs?
Depending upon the community in which you live and the ratio of pit bulls within it, yes and no. But whether a pit bull bites more or less than another breed is not the point. The issue is the grave damage a pit bull inflicts when it does bite. The "lock and shake" characteristic of the bite causes severe bone and muscle injury.
When sizing up bite statistics, it is important to understand, What constitutes a bite? A singe bite, recorded and used in bite statistics, is a bite that "breaks the skin." One bite by a poodle that leaves two puncture wounds is recorded the same way as a pit bull attack, which can constitute hundreds of puncture wounds and massive soft tissue loss.8

Q: Why does my friend say, "Pit bulls are animal-aggressive not people-aggressive?"
Due to selective breeding practice, pit bulls are highly animal aggressive. They frequently kill other pets and livestock. Pit bull experts warn owners, "Never trust your pit bull not to fight." They also state that under no circumstances should you leave a pit bull and another animal alone together.11
Animal aggression is unacceptable -- too many of our pets suffer injury and death as a result. The behavior also leads to human aggression. A common scenario is the following: A pit bull attacks a leashed dog being walked by its owner. The owner gets seriously injured trying to stop the attack.
News stories flourish about pit bulls breaking free of their property and attacking children and the elderly. These victims did not have pets with them, nor were they provoking the dog before the attack. The categorical denial by the pit bull community that the breed is not people-aggressive only serves to create new victims.

My contribution. I took this at a dog show several months ago. They are very cute!

What's not to love....

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ful_29/004.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ful_29/017.jpg



And just so he's not left out... our weirdo mini schnauzer in desparate need of a hair cut, Guinness...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ful_29/002.jpg

what's not to love? the gas.

Believe it or not, Jameson's gas isn't bad at all. It's when he decides to be your shadow that you want to kill him... cause it's like he's trying to kill you.

This thread needs a little lipstick.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...l_lipstick.jpg

I have found that adding some plain yogurt to a dogs diet helps eliminate gas.

Now if only my wife could get me to eat more yogurt.. LOL.

B,

I owe you an apology. I was not following my own advice. I was being assumptive and drawing conclusions based on incomplete information. I referred to you a "lady" twice.
I sincerely apologize for my inconsiderate oversight.

R

No worries, I never gave it much thought. I don't really see web-forums (handles) either as masculine or feminine. I write in the masculine because, I'm a man, but hold no ill will towards anyone who might have perceived me as a lady.
- Not something to lose sleep about in my opinion. And thanks for the retraction. I also apologize for insinuating that you were a guy.