Oil up from 104 to 130.00, stocks down 200pts
 

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/mar...s-eye-bailout/


Yep, Fed 700B bailout sounds like a GREAT idea. Amazing how we couldn't fix SS but have the money to bail this crap out... :tsk:

It'll be down to 80 tomorrow and up 300. This volatility is ridiculous.

This is more than just a one day event. Printing money will do that to everything not just oil.

The bail out is key, the countries economy is real down turn and it is the only way to right the ship.

At the current time we have almost no commercial lending and the lack of capital will/has drive the commercial sector down. The commercial sector is generally not over built and the vacancy rate is low.

Just an FYI if you think bailouts are "good". For the S&L bailout in the '80s the estimated cost by the Govt was "50B", the actual cost was nearly 2 times that. So, figure 2 TRILLION dollars...still think it was a good idea? What exactly is the down side, a worse economy versus debt forever and a dollar worth less than the paper it was printed on. The dollar has steadily decreased in value since the rumor of a 700B bailout happened. There is a reason the last two remaining investment banks have switched to true bank status, meaning they can take deposits, apparently someone just realized investment based on other peoples insight is risky.

What is the consumer debt in the US? Would tax payers want their money to pay of their debt before a investment firms? Remember, the Government has NO MONEY. They only have the money you have allowed them to take from you.

IMO, if this passes the United States is no longer a free-market Capitalist economy, so those 'capitalist rules' should go away. And with this socialist mentality, we should be next focusing on a USA Oil & Energy Company.

The cost of bailouts are different than spending on social programs or consumer debt.

With a weak economy you have much more cost:

1) Lower income tax at state and federal level

2) People and Companies in distress that the government will need to support

The bailout plan solves the problem, liquidity in the capital markets. Once the capital market is made solvent the economy will be able to function/grow. This fixes the route of the problem and should take away the need to save a company or bank every day/week.

Somehow people view "Wall Street" as bad, but "greed is good" and it is the corner stone of the capitalism.

I fundamentally disagree with the concept that greed is good. Markets require a certain amount of regulation. That can be self-regulation, government regulation, or whatever, and it can range from almost no regulation to strict controls. We just need to decide how much, and what method to use to apply those regulations.

What has led to the current problem is unchecked greed, the lack of a real regulatory framework, blind faith in continuous growth, and uneducated consumers who got on the train, figuring that it was going to go forever.

Ambition is good. Creating value is good. Speculation, betting on companies failing or not without having a stake in the outcome other than the bet, or hedge, is fundamentally wrong. It just doesn't add any value, and eventually it catches up to you. It just caught up to the US.

Perhaps the question is whether the US is really a free-market economy, given the influence of lobbyists and others.

Lets leave the greed vs ambition discussion aside we need funding/liquidity for the capital system work and we need some plan to take the economy out of its tail spin. Lets hope that the "bailout" works!

Why leave it aside? Do you support or participate in speculation that doesn't add value to the process? And out of interest, are you being saved by this bailout?

I think the bailout will simply sustain a failed system for sometime, but it will fail again. The math is simple, spend what you have. Credit allowed individuals, corporations and governments to spend what they don't have on the assumption that will make in the future. Now everyone is in dept.
The justification for the bailout is that if we don't act we will cause significant damage to economy and market liquidity. We need the liquidity to allow for MORE borrowing.... enough with the borrowing already!!!
Not to mention, did you hear that the bill proposed by the treasury will allow Paulson full control over the 700B with no oversight. Stuff like this should scare the pants out of everyone!!
The Dollar is getting killed. The Tax payer is getting the short end of the stick on so many levels!

OutfookinStanding Post, JCL...
BigR's is right up there, too.

Almost aside from whether or not the BailOut goes through is,
rather it goes through like the steamrolled proposed version,
or a more thoughtful/thought out version with some transparency and
real regs, or some congressional arm wrestle version...

It's gonna happen; the real concern ought to be in what final
version.

This proposal is probably the most important piece of legislation
ever, in the history of the US of A, imo.

We, especially those of you with another 50 years to hang around the
planet, will be paying for this in some manner for the rest of your lives.

With the current pressure and haste and anointed powers, lack of
oversight and redress, one would think "they" were piecing together
a fookin pizza recipe. What a nightmare we are in, imo...

Two things:

1) Since the "pause" on the 700B plan, oil dropped from 130-->107 and the dollars value increased. What does that tell you?

2) CNN had a worthless poll that said 78% of peeps say REPs are at fault for the current econ issues, apparently they forgot about the DEM lead Congress for the last 2 years....that would be the "we have lower approval rating than BUSH", Congress.

I haven't posted in a while, but I'll break my silence for this one...

None of the economists have said the obvious reasons for what happened, as they are all cheerleaders for the current system and admitting what went wrong would be admitting the flaws in the current system.

The underlying problem with our economy is that too large a percentage of the wealth is controlled by too small a percentage of the population. As a healthy economy relies on consumer spending, it is important to keep money in the hands of the masses so that they can buy and buy more. So what do you do when the masses no longer have any money due to a steady declining of wages over the past 30 years? :dunno:

Simple.....you let them borrow the money. You issue them credit cards, and more credit cards. And car loans to buy vehicles....and mortgages to buy homes....

And when the masses max out their credit cards? You issue them new ones with higher limits.

And when they can no longer afford the payment on a 3 year car loan? You start issuing 6 year car loans.

And when they can no longer afford the mortgage payment on a 30 year mortgage? You start issuing 40 and 50 year mortgages, and adjustable rate mortgages.

But eventually, you have to cut off the credit somewhere. And when you do, everything comes crumbling down. And that is where we are now.

So how do you fix the system? All the $700 billion bailout will do is extend the credit even further, and along with that, weaken the dollar even further.

The only solution that will fix things, is one that will put more money in the hands of the lower and middle class, not one while will "loan" them money, and certainly not a solution which puts more wealth in the hands of the wealthy.

How about instead of giving $700 billion to some large corporations, we use that money for some sort of public works program so that people out of work can get a job. Or we can use some of it to help develop alternative energy -- something that would not only put skilled educated workers to work, but would also solve another problem we are facing. In fact, with $700 billion, you can do many useful things. Giving the money to the companies that pissed their own money away is not one of them though.

Are you new here?

:rofl: :thumbup:

I agree with you Eric. The consensus response seems to be "oh, well it would be worse if they fail..." worse for whom?

"Look around you Helen, we're standing at the threshold of hell" - Clark Griswold, NL Christmas Vacation