Red Light Camera Ticket
 

In the mail yesterday I got a ticket for $242.00. The wonderful City of Portland says I ran a red light and they got some photos of me!

While, they are not high resolution ones they sent me, it clearly looks like I was approaching the intersection still under a green light. At the posted speed of 35MPH, there is no way the X5 would have been able to stop within 7 feet to not get the ticket!

So, my question to you is...have any of you fought a red light camera ticket? If so what were the results?

The red light ticket I got was $50.00, but i did ran it so I paid..

Your photo shows the light and it is still green? My understanding of the red-light cameras, is that they only snap after a light has turned red and a vehicle crosses the intersection line afterwards.

If you got proof that is not the case in your situation, I would fight it.

Never had a red light camera ticket, but here's a website that might help. It's California focused, but the general information probably applies to Portland.

Home - Fighting Red Light Camera Tickets - Expanded

Woow, that's a lot for a red light ticket and I thought DC tickets were expensive....

Yea it is! I called in to see if I could get some higher-res photos just so I could see clearly what the traffic light statuses are.

They said I could come in to view the photos. I don't trust them to go in and view the photos, they would probably just try to bully me and get me to pay the citation.....

Time to find a lawyer! :stickpoke

On the lighter side:


Guy receives in the mail a red-light camera photo and ticket with a memo from the cops asking him to pay the $300 file.

So the 'wise guy' mails the cops a photo of 3 hundred-dollar bills.

Cops then send the guy a photo of handcuffs.

Guy pays up.

:D


IF it was me I'd fight the ticket too.

Can you post the photo so we can see it ourselves?

Scanned it in. In the top photo you can see where I am in relationship to the crosswalk. If you look to the right top portion about 3/4 over you will see a box with the traffic light in it. Note that the light is still green.

So, I don't see anyway I could have safely stopped in time.

As I understand it, the "safely stop in time" rule allows a cop to exercise discretion in deciding to pull you over or not.

When it comes to red light cameras I had the impression the law is absolute, you get caught in it, you pay - it does not matter is it catches you going through or if you end up stopping in the intersection.

Here in Toronto at least, you don't get demerit points (mainly because they cannot say for certain who the driver is). Its really is just a CASH-GRAB.

Guess what? California Red light camera tickets come with a fine up to $370 :(

I don't know if you have much of a case. The idea is that you need to prepare to stop when it turns yellow. Yellow lights are timed so that it gives you enough time to stop if you are going the speed limit. Or so the theory goes.Good luck in any case.

Must be one hell of a short yellow if he was at the crosswalk when the light was green and he's in the intersection and it's already red.

Exactly, my front bumper is right at the start of the crosswalk. The light is green (can't see the color, but it is the bottom position of the traffic light).

I do have to say the X5 does look good at night.

I'm pretty sure the red light cameras in NY are triggered if you cross the crosswalk after the light is already yellow. Strange that the camera caught you on a green. :dunno:

:iagree: It's always important to look sharp when running a red.

Got one of these in NYC a year ago. Tried to appeal it through the mail by saying the yellow was way too short (which it was). Didn't get anywhere, it was my word against theirs. I wound up paying it, since you don't get points against your license anyway. It's the equivalent of a parking ticket. As Last5oh so aptly pointed out above, it really is just a CASH-GRAB. A government racket to fleece motorists by placing the cameras at high-speed intersections, while simultaneously shortening the yellows. So you've got 2 choices: 1) Stop on a dime as soon as you see it turn yellow and get rammed up your A$$ by the tailgater 2 inches behind you...or 2) "gun" it on the yellow to prevent the inevitable rear-ender, and wait patiently for the ticket in the mail.:rolleyes:

It does seem odd that you are so close to the crossing and the light is green then it is red as soon as you cross. Either a very quick yellow or you were travelling about 5 mph.
Or maybe you stopped right at the crossing for a quick coffee and donut before coninuing. Still it's a big fine. I feel for you.
I tried in France to contest a photo. Gave up in the end and paid.:(

Why I LOVE having out of state tags. I also took off my front. Not an option for you if you live in a police-state, but it looks like thats how they're done in WA. I think that ticket cameras are complete crap. I would always just send it back saying I wasn't driving.

At least down here the camera hits you from behind, that way you see the light you were driving past in the pic. They set the cameras up behind the intersection because we don't have front plates in LA.

Side story 1, my brother had the alternator die in his 03 'stang, brought the battery down to nothin leaving him on the side of the road. I borght him an extra battery I had to get him home and followed him to his house in case it died again... Keep in mind this is late at night so he had to have the lights on. A camera'd light turned yellow to the point that we should have stopped, but he gunned it! I had to follow... He got a red light ticket but I did not, realized the temporary paper licence plate had fallen from the back window! :D :D :D They had nothin to go on!

Side story 2... When I was in NJ for training I got on what I think must have been the turnpike? I paid a toll to get on then just stayed in the left lane until I had to exit for the airport. Months later I got a ticket in the mail for not pulling to the side of the road to pay further tolls...? I thought the other toll booth were at the exits? Didn't know you had to pull over repeatedly to pay again and again?!? I was driving a rented toyota matrix, so I guess enterprise gave my info to the police? The further north or west I go the more I miss home.

That would be the Garden State Parkway. On the turnpike you only pay when you exit. On the parkway, there are tolls every so often. If you have EZpass, you keep left and there are no toll plazas, just high speed lanes with the readers overhead.

I LOVE temporary tags! :thumbup:

Exactly. I didn't even notice it was green and not yellow. That's not how they're suppose to work. :confused:

So you got a ticket for going through a yellow light. Very strange.

Wow they have forward-facing cameras in Oregon? No offence, but I already thought OR was pretty driver-unfriendly with awful drivers, but this makes it that much worse.

Yay for no front plates! :D

Yeah I never heard of that either. I thought all red light cameras took pics of the back of your car.

What if an out of state driver that doesnt have a front plate runs the light. Well good for him then I guess.

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread but its kinda related I guess. I have 3 new anti-camera license plate covers (2 smoked and one clear) available for $25 each shipped.

We get tickets for having them over our plates here in NYC so I cant use them. PM me if interested.

caught at one intersection ($75 ticket, paid) so now everytime I go near that light I'm paranoid it's going to turn yellow. The pic I got in the mail clearly shows me still in the intersection while the light was red already. Last time I was there it actually turned yellow well ahead... but some dude in an RX330 decided to speed around me and through the intersection... a flash goes off... haha sucka.

I wish you got luck fighting it; if you get the right judge you should be able to get out of it!
Maybe the camera is adjusted a bit too "aggresive" and more people complain!

Can you post a clearer scan? I would like to see more of the background, as from what I can see of the relationships with other cars you have traveled further than the others.....

Cheers

J

Are the pictures time stamped? It would be interesting to see the time lapse between green and red.

Received one of these in the mail last year...soon as i saw the flash, i knew i'd receive a ticket in the mail. Decided against fighting it but did some research. Some disturbing things i discovered:

- That particular light turned from green-yellow-red a bit faster than other lights in the area.
- The intersection (between both crosswalks) is much shorter, thus one would assume there's ample time to make the light
- Discovered that the whole camera operation (in NYC) is run by a private company, American Traffic Solutions. Obviously, their only concern is profit.

And I've discovered at two different red light camera locations, that if you drive at a reasonable speed from the preceding traffic light which has turned green, the following traffic light is timed just such that you will have to jam on your brakes, or speed up to beat the red. But if you're driving moderately, that red will catch you every time. And I'm sure ATS literally "banks" on the fact that most NYC drivers will run the light.

Now when I'm approaching the intersection and the Dont Walk signs are flashing, I now instinctively scan the area for the overhead or roadside pole-mounted cameras.

:iagree: That's exactly what I wanted to say earlier, but you broke it down in a more detailed manner. Are you referring to the West Side Highway, in the 40s and 50s?? That's where I got caught "between a rock and a hard place" in just the situation you described above! It's designed like a perfect trap. I cannot imagine how many thousands of $$$ that small stretch of highway brings to NYC DOT every day.

No there's a camera capturing people proceeding eastbound on 110th st when they cross the light at Manhattan Av. The timing at the previous light (Columbus, I think??) has you right at the light on a red. Also further uptown on Dyckman St right before the entrance to the Harlem River Drive. The preceding light has you making a left or right from Nagle Avenue and proceeding east to an ALMOST red light.

Again, if you drive at a reasonable speed, you will be at the light just as it turns red. I'm sure 75% of the lights are strategically timed.

Traffic Light Signals and Red Light Cameras

6. Red light cameras

Red light cameras are sometimes used to catch those who run red lights, but they are expensive and misuse means disasters. Red light cameras at low level may be on a low pole. Red light cameras at high level may be on a horizontal structure. Certain red light cameras also attempt to photograph drivers in addition to vehicles, but drivers covering their faces may defeat this attempt. Red light cameras often have common <A href="http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersections/rlrcam_tech.htm">grace periods of 0.3 second or 0.5 second internationally and a minimum speed of 15 to 20 miles per hour ((24 to 32) km/h) to activate the system.
Reciprocal links:Community Traffic Safety Team Pasco CountyTransportation Alternatives Message Board: "Red light" surveillance cameras6.1. Critical decision upon a yellow light6.2. Traffic engineering and green and red light timers versus red light cameras6.2.1. The Internationale versus tyrannical red light cameras6.2.2. A patriotic speech for the United States6.3. How may red light cameras increase crimes?6.4. Sample electronic mails6.5. Locations with red light cameras6.1. Critical decision upon a yellow light

Drivers far from a yellow light must stop. Drivers near a yellow light must keep going if unable to stop safely. However, there is a grey zone that may be regarded as either too close or too far from a light where drivers must make a critical decision. A red light camera may force them to stop too quickly and risk rear-ended or to keep going and risk running a red light. This is especially dangerous for large vehicles. Combination of pre-timed traffic light signals and red light cameras is extremely bad because it disregards traffic facing a yellow light and being in the grey zone described above. Combination of short yellow lights and red light cameras is the evilest speed trap.

Here in SC I remember a case where someone fought a ticket for running a red light (no camera) and won because they took a video of the traffic light with a stop watch timing the length of the yellow. It was proven that the yellow was much shorter than all surrounding lights, including the opposing light. I think they also used an old law/rule that said a yellow must be a minimum x seconds long. I can't seem to find that using google.

I found this: look under section 5.3.2 for the full details

Traffic Signal Timing Manual: Chapter 5 - Office of Operations

Yellow Change

The duration of the yellow change interval is typically based upon driver perception-reaction time, plus the distance needed to safely stop or to travel safely through the intersection.
A state’s Uniform Vehicle Code directly affects yellow change interval timing, as it determines whether a permissive or restrictive yellow law is in place.

• Permissive Yellow Law: A driver can enter the intersection during the entire yellow interval and be in the intersection during the red indication as long as the vehicle entered the intersection during the yellow interval. Under permissive yellow law, an all-red clearance interval must exist as a timing parameter to ensure safe right-of-way transfer at an intersection. This rule is consistent with paragraph 11-202 of the Uniform Vehicle Code (9).
• Restrictive Yellow Law: There are two variations of this law (10). In one variation, a vehicle may not enter an intersection when the indication is yellow unless the vehicle can clear the intersection by the end of yellow. This implies that the yellow duration should be sufficiently long as to allow drivers the time needed to clear the intersection if they determine that it is not possible to safely stop. In the other variation, a vehicle may not enter an intersection unless it is impossible or unsafe to stop. With restrictive yellow law, the presence of an all-red interval is optional and good engineering judgment should be applied.

Due to the varying interpretations of the yellow change use, it is encouraged that traffic engineers refer to the local and regional statutes for guidance in determining the purpose of the yellow change time.

A relevant post from last year:

red light cameras actually increase the number and severity of crashes

Yup. I once came to a stop at the crosswalk where there is a well known red-light camera. The car in the lane directly to my right was going much faster than me and jammed on her brakes to keep from getting a ticket. The car behind her was going just as fast but did not anticipate her stopping for the light. In the blink of an eye, the woman that'd stopped next to me's car was displaced by the car behind it. She was rammed right into the intersection.

Hey... I wonder did she get a ticket... :rofl:

That is exactly how 400 is here in Atlanta. Really, the only toll road we have, thank God.

jsears, sounds like you really got screwed with a short yellow like a few people have said. At least this will not go on your record though.

I have a TomTom GPS and it alerts me everytime I approach an intersection with a red light camera. It seems to work pretty well and I just pay extra attention in those situations.

Next time you go through an intersection with a camera, just put both of your middle fingers up againt the windshield and then you will atleast have a great photo to show your friends. :D :thebird::thebird: