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In-depth analysis of 2005 X5 "DSP" Nav audio system
Hi there. My name's Ken, and I own a car audio shop in Portland, Oregon (avincar auto sound, we're at www.avincar.com ). A forum member just had us upgrade his X5 audio system. I'll let him tell you about the factory system and his experience of our upgrade to it (hopefully that's all positive, but I hope that if anything comes up, he tells you and us: )
This post is intended to tell you about how the OEM audio system works, and what's complicated about it, and how we worked with it. THIS IS NOT A DIY POST. One, I didn't do the wiring personally (our installation manager did) and can't tell you wire colors anyway. Two, I know there's a lot of variation from system type to system type, so I might not describe the car you're working with anyway. Three, I do this for a living, and while I don't mind helping as much as I can over the internet (I advise many people on an Acura forum about A/V questions), this is a very complicated process, and - no offense meant - I frankly don't want to take reponsibility for your results. OEM system basics So first off, this system is a Nav system with a changer and Sirius, and there is a menu line for "DSP". HOWEVER, there is no digital cable out of the changer. Apparently that means that it's some sort of "quasi" DSP system. The signal that comes out of the HU to the OEM amp is two-channel, and fixed in level. That means that when we manipulate the Volume, Fader, and Balance controls, nothing changes on this signal. Apparently there are also data lines from the HU to the amp, and these control the tone controls inside the amp. (We did not test these preamp signal wires for frequency response, nor did we test to see if the seven-band EQ in the HU affected the signal on these wires. More on this later.) The amplifier has either twelve or fourteen channels of output. That's right - fourteen. Front tweets in the mirror sails (2). Front mids in the front top of the dash (2). Front mid-bass in the doors (2). Rear mids in the rear doors (2). Rear midbass in the rear doors (2). And two dual-voice coil "subs" in the right rear corner (2 or 4 - didn't take the amp apart to find out). Frequency distribution and equalization The front tweeters play from 5000 Hz and up. There is a slight amount of EQ "bump" at about 16K, but not a lot. The front mids play from 5K down to 800 Hz. They have a slight EQ bump at about 1K. The front midbass play from 800 Hz down to about 80 Hz. Lot of midbass EQ boost. The rear midrange plays from 5K down to 800. The rear midbass plays from 400 to around 50 (it *seemed* to play lower than the front midbass according to our analyzer, an NT Instruments Acoustilyzer). There is a one-octave hole from 400 to 800, and since there are no rear tweeters, there is no significant output above 5K in the rear doors. The subs play from 80 and down. While there doesn't seem to be much in the way of obvious subsonic filtering, there does seem to be an EQ "bump" around 65. Design flaws The audio system bears all the marks of having been designed by a committee of electrical engineers - in that it's a very complex and highly engineered train wreck : ) The speakers look expensively made (although in Hungary, not Germany) and the amp must have cost a small fortune. However, sound quality was horrid in both my opinion and the customer's. The 6" midbass in the doors have a mechanical resonant frequency of 50 Hz. This allows them to play pretty low - in the front doors, lower than they are allowed to play. The "subs, on the other hand, are not only trying to play through 3mm of ABS panel and 20mm of felt noise-padding (as has been pointed out here by many, many posters) - they also have a mechanical resonant frequency of 80 Hz! They mechanically start rolling off at 12dB/octave AT THE LOWPASS CROSSOVER FREQUENCY! (Translation - weak and thin bass.) The woofers look well made, but poorly designed for this application. All the speaker voice coils are 8 Ohm impedance (nominal, measured with an impedance meter, not an ohmmeter). Why use 8 Ohm speakers in a 12V electrical system in this design is beyond me. It means you have 1/2 as many watts with the same electrical parts in the amplifier. If you upgraded the speakers to 4 ohm, you *should* get twice the power - IF you can figure out what speakers to use. Upgrade issues Well, the first issue is that VERY few manufacturers, if any, make speakers that correspond to the OEM speakers in size and function. 2" cone mids are almost unheard of (at least by me). If you wanted to bolt in new speakers and have them play off of the OEM amplifier, you would have a tough time covering all the frequencies. This is why some of the posters here have put in new tweeters and new midbass, but have continued to use the OEM midranges. The second issue is that the signal to the rear doors is NOT full-range - it has two huge holes in it (400-800 Hz, and 5kHz and up). The third is that the "preamp" balanced signal from the HU to the OEM amp does not change with volume - it's more like the output on the back of a home CD player than it is the output of an aftermarket car CD player. So you can't run this signal straight into an aftermarket amp. Also, there ain't much room for amps. Options Well, the first option I'm going to mention is a JL Audio Clean Sweep - tap it into the fixed line out from the HU to the OEM amp. This has pluses and minuses. A plus is simplicity (compared to what we did below). A minus is that your fader and your steering wheel volume controls are all useless afterwards, and I believe that your OEM 7-band EQ is as well (but I did not verify this). If you are working with a shop that's not too good with theory, this might not be a bad choice (if you can stand losing all that functionality) because the second option may kick their butts. The second option is to take the various channels of output and run them into certain high-voltage Line Output Converters and then sum their outputs together to get a full-range response (as SIM did with janix). We did this. This approach has pluses and minuses too. The pluses include retaining the OEM EQ and the steering wheel controls (but probably not the fader). The minuses include requiring some skilled troubleshooting of RPM-associated "alternator whine", addressing the resulting frequency response curve (which looks like the roller coaster at Coney Island, and NOT just because of the BMW equalization, no matter what anyone says), and probably purposely losing the OEM fader. Why lose the fader? Because IF you go with rear speakers (some of us believe that rear speakers are a Commie plot, but many of you will ignore me on that one), then the OEM amp's output to the rear speakers is unsuitable - it has those two huge holes in it. Any speaker connected to those output signals would suffer from the same problem. Garbage in, garbage out. So our approach to this car is to interface with the outputs of the OEM amp, re-combine the audio signals so that we can use midrange-tweeter components instead of the three-way setup that BMW uses, then address the frequency response issues with a parametric EQ, and THEN install new amps and speakers (and we take the front output and split it to both front and rear, and put a fader knob in the ashtray). The OEM graphic EQ in the HU just doesn't give us enough flexibility to correct the response, which is screwed up when you "sum" the signals back together. In the stopbands of the outputs of the crossover, the signals are out of phase with each other to some degree, and the result is dips and peaks in the response around the crossover points that do not correspond to the predicted response from looking at individual response curves. We also use the EQ as a line driver because the LOC outputs aren't as strong as we'd like, and we don't want to gain up the amps in order to avoid noise (a bugaboo which we finally have eliminated with this car (knock on wood)). So what we did was put silk-dome tweets with a low resonant frequency in the OEM midrange dash locations, kill the mirror-sail tweets, and install 6.5 mids in the midbass spots. Since the tweets play down to 2500 Hz with authority (and play more in the stopband of the passive crossover), the vocalist is firmly and solidly elevated into the windshield. With metal-dome or harder dome tweeters, which are crossed over an octave higher (usually 4500), this effect is lost. I want a good strong center-forward image over metal-dome tinkliness everytime. We then put a 10 in the back corner and some amps under the load floor (kept the spare, no visual mods). Anyway, I hope this made sense - my apologies if it doesn't - and I hope that I can answer anybody's questions, which I also hope you feel free to ask. Use the e-mail feature - I probably won't check PM's too often. Regards, Ken |
good review..i have an 03 x5 4.6 w/dsp,nav audiopjile system...in my cabrio i sprnd a good 20k on my stereo and i LOVE the x5 stereo! I'mm adding the dension ice-link as i have a changer and want the songs on the obc, but other tyhan that its loud enough, and sounds great..the bass couold be a touch louder, but i'm used to 2 13w6's w/ a jl 1000/1 in a e46 cdabrio.....so its not bad
overall i love it and considering the $ it would take to make it a TINY bit better, IMO its not worth it. i'm now selling the cabrio as i love the x5 and keeping system stock...bmw has already pimped out the 4.6is IMO. ;) |
Great writeup Ken. Why on earth manufacturers do this is beyond me. How are other brands -- MB, Audi, Lexus, Acura, Volvo, etc? Are they that bad too?
I was really surprised that the rear speakers have such 'holes' in the frequency response and don't even play full range! I though it was a two way system back there -- apparently there are no tweeters. I have the regular (Non DSP) stereo in my X5 and my shop did the same thing you guys did for a subwoofer -- they just tapped into the low frequency wires with a high to low level converter. We added a Alpine 4313 to adjust the bass and all is well... Have you guys had a chance to play with the new Logic 7 systems yet? I'm not sure I want to even touch that one, I heard they are using fiber optics and an interface similar to Firewire now? Yeesh.... Chris |
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Optical MOST buses are becoming very popular. The aftermarket is working on the MOST protocol to make a MOST gateway to allow inputs and outputs, but none have arrived yet. Mercedes and Volvo are two who use the optical - Mercedes on everything, and Volvo on at least the XC90. You address these the same way we did the X5 system. I haven't played with the Logic 7 systems yet but I believe the innovation is all in the UI - the output side is about the same as the X5 we did, I suspect. Only so many ways to push around a moving coil, after all : ) In one way I respect what BMW did with the rear speakers - almost. Rear speakers don't help sound quality. Rear vocals and highs confuse the stereo image - but many people want them anyway. What they SHOULD have done IMO is programmed the DPS to essentially do the same thing, but include full-range drivers, and then it's a selectable feature. |
Well I got lost after the first few lines,But thanks for trying to explain,what can i do to make my stock system better ? Would changing the speakers help?
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No Reader's Digest version on this one, sorry. You kinda need to know why it's not simple, or you'll just ask "Why don't we do it the simple way?"
First step for you is to decide what flaws you notice the most, and what budget you'd dedicate towards addressing those flaws. Next is figuring out if you have a local shop that seems competent to respond to what you want changed. Let's give the forum member who owns this 2005 X5 4.8 the chance to tell us about what he had us do... I may have already stolen too much of his thunder by talking about the OEM system ... |
...and how much is all this?
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You really have two cost components.
One is what it takes to get the OEM source units (Nav, CD/Tape, Bluetooth, AM/FM, Sirius, etc.) up to par with an aftermarket head unit as far as adding amps and speakers is concerned. The other is what amps and speakers you get, and how you have them installed. I'd say that you are looking at about $400 in parts to get to a full-range pre-amp signal, and then from $250 to $800 to add that optional EQ to get that signal as flat as possible from a frequency-response point of view. For installation on that, I'd look at around $500 for the install and tuning, especially if you have a front-mounted fader to install (please note that earlier years may very well have rear signals without the "holes" in the response, which would eliminate the outboard fader but probably add another $150 in parts cost for those additional channels. All that is just to get you to the point that you can get excellent-sounding speakers and amps and have them getting a good signal that they can use to sound the way they should. Obviously, if you are looking at doing an upgrade with entry-level gear, it's probably not going to pencil out. |
analysis of audio system
I have an 01 X5 with DSP and Nav. I am plannning within the next month to do an upgrade similar to what janix did with the exception of a few things.
like going with the audio control LC6 which is a six channel LOC and plan on using Diamond S600s Hex as my components front and rear. in addition an Audio Control EQS six channel equalizer. For the subs I plan on Porting a single Jl audio 12w6v2 in the sub location and powering the system with the Phoenix Gold TI 500.4 and 800.1 I just wanna know if you have any recommendations or suggestions that i may wanna take into consideration. Thanks |
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1) I don't think the LC6 gives you enough channels. Also, I tried an LC6 in this car just for test purposes, and it was very, very noisy. I probably could have gotten a lot of it out, but it's no magic bullet, that's for sure. 2) I hope you don't get any engine noise with the EQS... I used to get a lot of noise with the Audio Control EQs (but not with the crossovers). The current series should be better, but I don't have direct experience with them. 3) I personally don't like the sound of most ported boxes and I would use a sealed box in that application. Ported boxes are bigger and for a long-travel woofer like the W6v2 you get a lot of port noise you don't need to hear (in a trunk you wouldn't hear it, but in an SUV it's pretty easy to hear). 4) Since they are discontinued, where did you get the amps? 5) Hear the Diamonds in a car before buying them, and listen for like 10 minutes straight. I find their tweeters to be impressive-sounding at first, but fatiguing to listen to over time. Also, their xover frequency doesn't allow them to play as low as I would want a dash-mounted tweeter to play to pull vocals up into the center... I would suggest in that price range you consider the DLS UP6 set. I have these in my Acura and they are our most popular component set. Other than that, I have no opinions... : ) |
Aren't these cars just Ipod accessories? One shop quoted 3k for stereo upgrade. I laughed. In the end a little echo, the premium stock system, quasi-dsp, nav, suggested DSP settings from here (http://www.xoutpost.com/articles.php?...ticle&artid=74) and Ice-link plus did me straight. So much that the quote of the year was echoed from a couple studio rats on the way to the big Judas Priest show last week..."dude this stereo sounds great back here..if you could hear this detail in the lyrics from way back you'd a known Rob Halford was tricking us all this time."
p.s. Priest was epic :wow: !!! |
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They want to run a two-way component in front with the tweets crossed around 5K, a two-way in the rear for fill (very low gain) and a custom fglass box on the right side with a 10'. Amps on a special rack under the false floor. (4x125 and 1x400) |
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It's not like you bought this car because it was low-cost. Hell of a time to start economizing now. Look, science has proven that stress ages us, and that music relaxes us. Why not maximize the effect? |
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However, I'm not going to say it has noise. Like many products, I bet that in some cars it works great and in a few cars it has noise. The X5 has a rep with many manufacturer companies of being an electrically noisy car - and I know that the LC6 can sound clean in other cars, but it sure had noise in the X5. I have seen before-and-after RTA curves, published by JL, and while the response is definitely better, it's not as if it's magically flat as a pancake. The curves aren't easy to tell the vertical dB scale on, either. I'm not certain that the HU output needs equalization - I think that's all in the OEM amp, and if you are adding a volume control, you don't need the OEM amp. As far as the dash tweeters go, there are basically two schools of tweeter thought. One is silk-dome, low resonant frequency, low crossover point. The other is harder materials, higher resonant frequency, higher crossover point. The latter tend to have a peak around 10K, sound "detailed" in the board, but bouncing off of glass, they can easily be found bright and forward and after some time are fatiguing to listen to for may people. The latter are in my experience based on great-sounding home speaker drivers, where the tweeter and woofer are very close together and you don't have glass surfaces to worry about. Companies using the first approach include Dynaudio, Morel, DLS, a/d/s/, and to a little lesser degree at times Boston, Alpine X-type, etc. Companies using the second type include Focal, Diamond, MB Quart, JBL, and Infinity. Even if you decide that sonically all these sound great in a demo board (something that is a matter of personal opinion), in the X5 door/dash locations, you will have a LOT more musical information up in the windshield if your tweeter plays an octave lower into the upper midrange. I've been doing this for 18 years. I tried the hard tweeters for a while in my own car a few years back. I found that after a couple years, I was listening to ESPN Radio more than music. I changed my speakers and noticed that I started getting CDs again and started taking them in the car again. It would have been preferable to spend time sitting in front of my Thiels and my Audio Research and doing nothing but having a drink and listening to a good home music system - but I don't seem to have as much time to do that as I used to. The average American spends 9 hours a week in their car. As I said above, science has proven that stress ages us, and that music relaxes us. Why miss such an opportunity to improve your surroundings for 9 hours a week? |
dls up6 ? el duderino
Can you tell me more about the ULS up6 line of speakers to be honest I have never heard of them..
I had Diamonds hex in my previous car which was a lexus Gs430 it sounded pretty good, but you are right about the low end and the loudness not enough mid bass also, but otherwise a great sounding speaker . my other option for staging were cdt -audio cl-62-560 or cl-61-560 or Focal 165 k2, mb quart q series As for the phoenix gold Amps i knew these were the amps that i wanted to use so i purchased the 800.1 4 months ago from a local shop that was clearing them out and the 500.4 last week from ebay. As for the reason I waw going with the LC6 I am not trying to reproduce 14 channels like the OEM amp. I just wanted front rear and sub, and i figure instead of doing what Janix did i trying to reproduce all these channels and you cant control them from the head unit which only allows you front and rear so i just decided to go front/ rear/ sub. I used the EQS as an option for further equalization from the lc6 but I guess i can always just use the cross overs from the components or go with an EQX. either way I think that its an upgrade from the factory system. but I totally wanna be in control of designing this system. because while you have a lot of installers that make your trunk look pretty, they are often clueless when it comes to the dealing with wiring a bmw and their dsp system. |
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I understand what you're saying about installers. I tend to characterize installers into two types: Engine Builders and Mechanics. The Engine Builders can make your stereo look sweet - but they can't troubleshoot, diagnose, or analyze very well, because theory ain't their thang. Mechanics can figure anything out, but aren't neccesarily the ones that can make everything look like it just won a trophy at a car show. Ideally a shop has at least one of each. For instance, my install manager is more of an engine builder - he knows theory fairly well, but that's really my bag - but he can make things look and work from a mechanical POV much better than I do. But I can troubleshoot or analyze very well. So I make the plan, he executes the plan, and then we tune and tweak together. I hadn't heard of DLS until about 6 months ago, and I've been in this industry for 19 years. Turns out they win IASCA and EMMA trophies left and right - they make VERY good sounding gear. You can see their web site at www.dls.se . Click on the British flag unless you can read Swedish. They make amps and speakers - an amazing number of amps and speakers. It's apparent to me that they have a wider range than JL Audio or Rockford. What's surprising to me is that I've really liked every item we've tried of theirs. $150 a pair 6" coaxes - loved them. $350 50-watt times 4 amp - loved it. $159 magnesium-cone subwoofer - loved it. $450 30w x 2 high-end amp - loved it (it's on the board powering a Dynaudio System 240GT component set, with no sub, and sounding great: ) The UP6 are interesting, in that I like their sound more than I like the sound of the speakers above them in the DLS line (there are only 2 series above them) when mounted in a door. (The more expensive speaks seem more optimized for kick panel enclosures - but their tweeter actually has a tuned chamber in it and would sound very good in the X5 dash...) Their tweeter has a resonant frequency of like 900 Hz. That means it can have meaningful output down to 1800 Hz with no danger of mechanical failure. a/d/s/, Dynaudio, Scan-Speak (the OEMs for the Alpine F#1 Status speakers) and Morel are companies that pioneered low-resonance tweeters. The mid has a two-inch voice coil - means it can be more accurate when it has enough power to control it precisely - and the magnet is a neodymium hybrid (rare for a midrange, more common in tweeters) that exists mostly inside the 2" voice coil, so it is very accurate but isn't very large and so is easy to fit into various cars. Two-inch voice coils are found more in 10" woofers than in 6" mids. (Morel and Dynaudio are two companies who pioneered large-voice-coil mids back 15-20 years ago.) So DLS is using these same techniques, but at a sharper price point. I understand that you aren't trying to do 14 channels... but you need at least 7. There isn't any "front" channel - there's front tweeters, front mids, and front mid-bass. You could sum those three together with the LC6 (and three "Y" adapters) and still not have anything left to address the rear midbass, rear midrange, and the subs. That's my concern. Be very careful with component location if you are doing this yourself. There are ECUs and grounding brackets in this car that emit EMI radiation like nobody's business - which can be heard when picked up by the interior of a component. Experimentation is crucial. |
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http://cgi.ebay.com/NIB-Phoenix-Gold...QQcmdZViewItem |
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How do you like the Jehnert door panels? I know the guy importing them into the US< but I've never heard them...
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el duderino?
I checked out the Eq and it seems pretty impressive, what i wanted to know was for the set UP that I am going with is the EQ going to be used alone or is it to be used in conjuction with the LOC.
Also can you tell me what would be a pluses and minuses in going with a aftermarket 3 way system say a (DLS ur36s). instead of just the 2 way And if I were to go with the 3 way set would i need say an additional amplifier say a 2 channel amp dedIcated for the rear like a (phoenix gold TI400.2) which would give me a total of 7 channels ( 4 front 2 rears 1 sub). or is that a flawed way of looking at it. Thanks |
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But your OEM amp has F tweets, F mids, F midbass, R mids, R midbass, and sub channels. Your Head Unit has L and R output but no Front or Rear, and it may or may not vary with the volume controls on the radio and steering wheel (I know this last 04/2005 X5 did not support the volume controls on that fixed line out). How do you plan to interface the LC6? I don't see that it can handle all the channels you need on the output side, and if you use it on the input sidee, I don't know if you can configure the knob on the LC6 to control overally volume instead of just the sub output level that it's labeled to control. If you use the LC6 on the preamp lines (which it's not designed for) you have 4 channels left over, as you also do with the EQS, unless you "Y" into the EQS and EQ your F and R and Sub channels separately. I find that of dubious value, but I'm not sure what you're planning. Quote:
Of course, I don't see the DLS dome mids fitting in the OEM locations in the dash, so I think it's a moot point. The smallest DLS dome mid is a 2.5" dome not counting the frame, and the BMW cone mids ate only 2" across. Also the DLS dome mids are not rated to play as low as the OEM cone mids, so they would blow up if you tried to use them as a direct replacement using the OEM signals from the amp. Quote:
But it doesn't matter much if they don't fit. I'd go low-xover-point tweeter in the mid location and a good capable midbass and call it a day personally. |
el duderino
thanks but I mentioned earlier in my email that i sent you that would I be better off just getting the seven Loc's and cable them like janix did and also does phoenix gold the eq works in conjuction with the LOC.s or by itself.
thanks |
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Then we ran that into the EQ. The EQ has two outputs. We ran one of those to the fader knob up front, and ran two RCAs back from that to the F and R amps. The other output of the EQ we ran out to the sub amp. We ignored the R door mid and midbass outputs because the customer clearly wanted a full-range R door signal, and one of his biggest complaints was how the R doors wouldn't play vocals for squat and sounded tinny. I beleive that some other X5s do play a "full-band" signal out the R doors, but I can't pretend to know a lot about their changes from year to year and system to system. Hope that answers your question... sorry about that. |
OK, I just logged into my home PC remotely and I see that you sent me an email. My apologies, I haven't read it yet. I'll read it tonight when I get home. My apolgoies for the confusion.
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I recently replaced the front and rear midbass speakers and front tweeters in my 2002 x5 4.4 with DSP with Boston Acoustics Pro speakers.
This made a tremendous difference compared to the stock plastic crap 8ohm speakers. I also replaced the factory shitty sub with a Phase Linear Alliante 12"LTD and a (dont laugh, this is really a top quality model) Kenwood KAC 1023 600WRMS amp. I used a caliber high to low converter to convert the signal. Sound quality is now really acceptable (as long as the echo effects are disabled)! Only thing I would still like to accomplish is a stereo input for my DVD system, and a dension ICElink for my ipod. Especially the DVD input is puzzling me, does anyone know how to connect the dvd player in stereo without losing the oem TVtuner functionality?? |
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thanks for the quick response, but my car is feb 2002, and several people told me that the aux in cable would not work?? or does it?
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Did you leave the dash mids connected? |
yes, basically because I did not have a clue what else to put in there :)
And to be honest, it does not really sound bad at all. (and I am used to serious hifi quality). Of course you cannot compare the install to a real high end system, but it sounds very acceptable for everyday use. |
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What radio module did you change exactly? the 16:9 screen?? ( i believe that is where i should connect the aux)?
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:hijack: You might want to start a new thread to continue, this is off topic for this one. |
So with the 2005, when you fade all the way to the rear, there are no hih notes, and it's obvious that the voices sound very muffled and distant.
Is this also the case with other model years with the 12-speaker system? |
el duderino?
which brand of LOC did you use in the X5 that you were taliking about.
Also how many did you use 5 ? (2 subs 3 fronts) and if I do not wanna go full range for the rear speakers would i then need 6 of them (2 front: mid bass tweets) 2 rears: (mid bass tweets) and 2 subs). Thanks |
You would need 7 - three fronts, two subs, two rear doors.
Soundgate and Navone both make one... we had to open them up and mod them to eliminate some noise, though. It'sthe same one pictured in the Sound In Motion - Janix picture. |
el duderino?
I know its seems at times like youre explaining something to a 3 year old but
I have a couple of questions that i wanted you to shed some light on once and for all 1. I wanted to know in your system that you did on the x5 and which you used the (front: midbass midrange and tweets) output for the front and rear door speakers were you able to cross-over the rear door speakers or did you play them full range? 2.the reason why I am asking is that is it possible to seperate between the midbass and the tweeter via the crossover if you are only sharing the remaining 2 channelss from the front ? 3. If a person goes with (front: midbass, midrange and tweet, and sub) like you did and ommited the rear channels then combined them would you basically be talking about 5 loc's on 10 channels is that right.? 4. On a side note i have been shopping around for a shop that understands some of the stuff that you laid out about the breakdown of the factory set-up in the x5 ,But the question that keeps coming up from some of installers is, why am i trying to seperate between front, midbass midrange and highs when they are all on 1 amp and not a seperate amp? and that i would not be able to fade between front mid and tweets no way from the factory radio since the factory head unit only allows front and rear fading! Most sho buy into the notion of just Front rear and sub and have not figure out that its (6 channels up front 4 rear and 4 subs) I think i carried this thread longer than it needed to be carried, but i appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to answer some of the questions from the members on this forumn..including myself. Thanks a million |
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This may help: http://kward1.homestead.com/x5sysdiag.html We took the front tweeter, front mid, front mid-bass, and sub, and summed them all together into a full-range output. Then we took that output and ran it thru an EQ to flatten the response. Then we took the F output of the EQ and ran that forward to a "dual-amp balancer" (a fader knob) and ran the F and R outputs of the fader knob back to the F and R amps. The R output of the EQ ran to the sub amp. We highpassed the F and R amps using their internal active crossovers (so they didn't play sub- bass). We lowpassed the sub using the sub amp's active crossover (playing only sub-bass). We did not want to use the factory 5000 Hz mid/tweet xover point because the speakers we were using (Dynaudio) sound best with a much lower xover point, such as 2500 or 3000. This helps elevate the voices into the windshield. (Remember that we installed the Dyaudio tweeters in the dash mid location and did not use the OEM tweeter location at all). Also, we didn't have enough amp channels of our own to run the tweets on their own channels. We had 75 x 2 for the F, 75 x 2 for the R, and 350 for the sub. Yes, we used 5 LOCs on 10 channels. We then derived F and R by using an Alpine Dual Amp Balancer knob. The installers you are finding are dim. Where are you geographically? I might know someone you could talk to. (The answer to their question is that they are on separate amp channels, so essentially they are on different amps. Even though these channels come out of the same "box", they are different and unique channels. If they were on the same channels, then they are correct, this would not be an issue at all - the tweets and mids would get the same amp signals and have to filter them thru passive crossovers.) |
el duderino
I live in mami fl, but presently working in sarasota fl and hour away from tampa fl
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How far are you from Ocala? You could talk to Steven Head or Dwayne at audionutz. www.teamaudionutz.com
I am friends with the owner of Buzz-Off Alarm and Audio in Tampa, aI will email him and ask him about his experience with the car. www.buzz-off.com |
el duderino?
I am an hour from tampa , and 2 1/2 hours from Ocala..
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OK, contact Andy at Buzz Off (he's the owner). I contacted him and he would be happy to talk to you.
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el duderino?
Can you recommend a shop in the Chicagoland area? My dealer suggested Sounds Deluxe in Clarendon Hills.
In your opinion can the stock stereo be reasonably upgraded for around $1K? |
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Depending on the system you're working with, I don't think $1K is worth while. A little more than half of that can be spent on getting a clean preamp output. Not much left for amps, speaks, etc. I think that around $3K is the level that I think that an upgrade is really worthwhile. |
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Depending on the system you're working with, I don't think $1K is worth while. A little more than half of that can be spent on getting a clean preamp output. Not much left for amps, speaks, etc. I think that around $2-3K is the level that I think that an upgrade is really worthwhile. |
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While ABT seems a nice chain, for what you want, I suspect a small specialist would be better.
You might use the Alpine dealer locater at alpine1.com and set it to Status F#1 only (their premier product which requires certifications). It's not a bad place to start. |
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It was just a suggestion of somewhere to start. |
BWAHAHAHA.... No highs, no lows.... It must be BOSE!
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X5 Speakers
Thank you for the information. One piece of info Ihave not found however - is just what the heck is the size for the X5 midranges (mounted on dash).
This seems to be best kept secret since J Hoffa. Thanks! |
It is an unusual size, hard to replace in the aftermarket. It's like a 2-2.5 or something like that.
The BSW mid might fit. I have a supplier with a 70mm mid that will fit. Whether or not you are replacing that with another mid is another question. If you're upgrading the amp, you may or may not retain the 3-way architecture. If you're retaining the amp, I have a 6.5 midwoofer/65mm cone mid/20mm silk dome tweeter kit that should work great... |
OEM mid is approximately 65mm, but it's on a unique little mounting plate shaped like a football. Our midranges are a direct, bolt-in fit:
http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/product.php/II=489 |
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