MK4 with Harddisc or SSD?
 

Hi,

would it be possible to replace the dvd drive from the MK4 with a harddisk of SSD with the NAV ISO on it? (with a special interface)

I have had 3 MK4's now, and all are having trouble reading selfmade copy's (POI added). Original works fine.

I also tried every brand of DVD discs. also very special studio quality ones.

Would be nice if we can rebuild a MK4 with a harddisk or SSD for example.

Anyone ideas on this? :dunno:

Regards,
Max

Actually, thats not a bad idea for old/new model X5 (before the new X5;s that use HDD based navigation). In theory, you could replace the DVD drive w/a computer interface that would feed the Screen w/the appropriate info.

If BMW opened their source code, or published API's, this could easily be done. alternatively, someone would have to reverse engineer how to sit in the middle (between MAP info, and Car computer). This seems like a time consuming effort. If there was a market $$ for this, then it may happen in the future.

For all the vendors on this board, is something like this on your R&D plans?

Thanks

Rest assured that VDO-Siemens will not be making public the source code of their most successful nav product, which is now no longer in production and no longer in development.

The only way to achieve this is for an expert in CD/DVD drives to emulate the drive control system (which is relatively standardised) by referring to the drive manufacturer's data sheet and standard software design.

PS: I know of a company that has done exactly what you are after but with the CD changer - they have replaced the CD changer with a plug-and-play SD-card reader that reads mp3, wma, etc formats. But the car believes the CD changer is still fitted. And the car shows ID3 tags as well.

Exactly like that. Just keep the MK4, but the MK4 should think there is a DVD drive in it. But the challenge is to replace the Diskdrive and make an interface to a (IDE, PATA, SATA, SCSI or USB) HDD or SSD.

That's a clever idea, just replace the cd/dvd lasers and loading mechanism with a 40Gb laptop drive and away you go, give it a usb port to upload new OS and maps.

hmm, I wonder how doable that is.

That's a clever idea, just replace the one-way disposable rocket with a resuable rentry vehicle and away you go, give it a nice payload capability and upload a new space station.

hmm, I wonder how doable that is.


My point is: anything is possible with enough time, knowledge, and money ... so who can provide those 3 key resources?

lol, yes funny mate; Pssst, it's been done.

I agree and your point is well made :) I'll get my coat...

Yo mate,

first things first: The idea is there, so you have my input.:thumbup:

How to solve the functional question, tecnically? :dunno:

I guess, there is running power to the drive and there is data comming from the drive.

Maybe someone has the technicel scematics of a MK4 unit and someone knows how to convert it to standarised IDE, PATA, SATA, SCSI or USB.

We are all car lovers, but I hope there is a genius among us:cool:

Thats the rub is it not, lol

There are 2 interfaces (from memory) that connect the loading mech to the motherboard, 1 is a jack type plug (power) and the other is a ribbon connector interface.

That would be the place to start, any one have these?

I suspect that the ribbon is not a IDE, PATA,SATA or SCSI (it could well be though), Also does the loading mech just provide raw data from the reading head direct to the motherboard or is there some processing on the Loading mech?.

I suspect (and its just a guess) that the loading mech just transports the raw data to the mother board via the ribbon and the MB does all the processing, its just a case of sorting the correct protocol to and from the laser.loading mech.

So an interface for the MK3/MK4 MB (IDE,SCSI,SATA or PATA) and the ide/usb stick/hdd will need to be made.

Then some onboard code to make sure it all works together.

Of course the other problem is the format of the data help on the usb (stick/hdd), do you use the different stick for maps and OS (emulating the disc headers (for os = NAV_SW), the map has something else (I remember for the minute).

Indeed.

The hardware is standard hardware, it is likely the interface and controller is standard as well.

So get hold of the specs of the DVD drive... who has access to the drive manufacturers specs?

And the drive simply delivers the DVD data over a parrallel interface to the main board.
So emulate the interface and you emulate the drive.

Ao you need to know the interface specs, and interface data protocol.

This is low-level hardware coding and physical design, not Visual Basic :-)

I think the interface is NOT IDE, PATA,SATA or SCSI because those are made for PCs with powerful, multipurpose PC processors, not dedicated controllers like in an automotive system.

And remember: the nav was designed in the early 90s and the DVD drive added in the late 90s. So think back 10 years as to what technology was available then...

Hi KiwiJochen, What company has done this? i would love one for my car

Not yet a public product so I've sent you a PM

sounds good..this will open a new world...;)

A few years ago purchased a Blaupunkt MP3 compact MP3 player for my E46. I never fitted it. It is still sitting in a box on a shelf here so decided to have a quick look at it. Actually never opened it. I also purchased a CD-Changer and kit for the E83. Never installed it because didn't want to use my center console space up. BUT if I could retrofit this little device near the center console I would have another source for music in the car. Looking at the wiring diagrams it appears to be basic - and would be an easy retrofit....

Sorry, but who cares...
;ot:

TheM@x - I was indicating as above that its been done with CD changer emulation so the steps discussed relating to NAV emulation should be relatively not too complex as the IBUS network command language has been well documented.

Personally I just purchased an ASUS Atom PC with an SSD. Works great and it is fast. On the same note purchased a mini PCI-E CF card holder device and that also works well.

I have been using a carpc now in the E83 running XP on an Atom. The newest modification to this PC (just recently installed it) is a bootable CF card for a Linux OS on it. It does work well.

The MK4 on an SSD would be less moving parts and less that could go wrong.

I understand, but it's not a replacement of the MK4, it's a modification within the MK4.

If BMW did not put so much intelligence in the DVD unit, it would be much easier. Or take a carputer as you say.

But we need to keep the MK4 functionality, except for the data source we would like to replace the DVD drive for a harddisk or Solid State Drive (SSD) or for a SD Card.

I don't believe there is that much intelligence in the NAV DVD/CD rom unit in relative terms. IE: 10 years ago yes but today no. The IBUS communications is well documented as its been around for quite a long time. It would actually be less work and less invasive to emulate a NAV unit than one part of it. As mentioned it would involve reverse engineering. IE: The NAV unit turns on and says I am here. It states what it is and is polled for information and responds to information. The communications is similar but not NMEA sentences. In the US typically a company will apply for a patent for technology and many times this patent well documents what the technology is / methodology used for said technology. As VDO was "multitasking" the same / similar use of the base standard that they created was utilized as a one for all. So somewhere there is a list that BMW provided its vendors for the base for IBUS communications devices. Its probably as easy as a predefined base of communications standards that any device can use. I remember once testing a MKI TV module on my E46 and noticed that the "intelligence" was in that device rather than the NAV CD device and it "took over" the intelligence on the display. I installed a "new" device on my E83 called a CIS-IBUS interface. This device actually has its own display on the 16:9 NAV display. Just like another device on the bus. (IE: hitting the mod button will bring up the CIS-IBUS interface).

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5717/dsc0441q.jpg

You missunderstand the original posters question: can the CD/DVD drive be replaced with a hard disc?

The DVD drive low-level interface is internal to the nav computer.

Replacing the DVD drive with a hard drive is non-trivial.

KiwiJochen, I did misunderstand original post. I guess because there are references to the DVD drive and the NAV computer as one in the same. I was just stating that making a HD NAV computer replacement would be much easier replacing the DVD or CD rom drive with a HD.

pete_C: OK, please let me know how you get on.

This is what goes in place of an MKIV in Japanese market Mini.

Someone bought a car originally slated for export but never left UK. They where enquiring on Mini2.com how to use in UK.

Any more info on that mate?

:wow:Keep us updated!

This is not it I think, but interesting.
Japanese NAV (Warning, lots of pics!!!) - MINI2 - MINI Forum

Found it:
New owner with Nav problem - MINI2 - MINI Forum

I`ve converted many Jap market BMW nav systems to standard Euro-market nav

If you want to know how to make the system 100% operational in the UK / europe, send me an email. It CAN be done, I`ve done it many times.

would like to get PM as well :)

Hi all,

the question was if this Japanes unit can replace a MK4 so that we can put maps on a CF Card? Can anyone show us the interface connector? Or a printplan/scematics?

Regards,
Max

Yes, you theoretically could swap out the Mk4 and fit the Japanese version.
But that is only worth doing if the car is in Japan, as the Japanese version of the nav only works in Japan and nowhere else in the world.

Why?

Because Japan uses special Japan-only format map discs, only available in Japan, with Japanese charcaters and Japanses voices.

Not much good for a Euro or USA user in any country other than Japan.

The Japanese nav is a TOTALLY different system, made by Alpine (and not VDO) and does NOT read any VDO map format.

Forget using the Jap nav unless you are in Japan

Ok clear, but we need some kind of hardware like that, agree?

Or back to the first option, "only" replace the DVD drive of the MK4 for a interface to a hdd or ssd or USB-drive or CF or SD or whatever... to get rid of the DVD drive.

Sure, go for it. Got any low-level DVD drive hardware interface experience? I don`t...

Is this product public yet? If not, can you pm me?

Yes
CP600 BMW

I've seen this, (I know a couple of the dev team) and from what I can gather its a cd emulator, similar to the intravee but uses the sd slot to "store and retrieve" the mp3s.

It's a very slick piece of kit.

I don't think it has a AV in (or out), but does have an i-bus interface.

Something like this would be ideal as the basis for a nav project, interfacing the video and software porting would be the challenge.

This seems to be great, but does anyone know if there is a interface like this one but instead of a car reader with a USB input?

Kiwi,

Do you or can you point me in the direction of the pinout of the cabling interfacing the DVD drive. There are so many off-the-shelf SATA to USB controllers, I would at least want to give this a try.

Thanks for your help.

Tee

dunno, sorry. Google the drive part number