Young Americans geographically challenged - Page 2

Eric5273 · #11 05-03-2006, 12:46 AM

The purpose of going to school is to learn. It is not so you can get a good job or so you can make lots of money. It is this all-too-common view that is a major reason that Americans are lagging behind much of the world (and even some of the 3rd world) in primary eduction.

Most kids are told that the reason to get an education is so they can get a good job. But kids don't want to grow up and get a normal 9-5 job that most college grads get -- they want to become professional athletes, musicians or movie stars. So they become disinterested. If learning and becoming smart was "cool", maybe they would be more interested in doing well in school.

I am 11 years removed from college and 15 years removed from high school, but even when I was in school it was considered cool if you cheated and got away with it. Why? Because the goal was to get good grades. Kids did not care if they actually learned anything. Even in college -- where you are actually paying for them to teach you -- most kids did not care about learning and only about getting the degree. If they could have skipped college alltogether and just bribed someone to give them the degree, 75% of them would have done so.

I own my own business today, and I have quit even looking at education background on resumes when I hire. Some of my best employees, including my current office manager, never went to college. And I have hired some people who had masters degrees who could not spell or write a complete sentence to save themselves. To be honest, I have found absolutely no difference in real education levels between people who have gone to college or grad school, and people who have not. That certainly should not be the case.

The quality of American education is going down the drain, and until we promote the idea of "learning" just for the sake of learning and becomming smart and educated, then we are doomed.

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Wagner · #12 05-03-2006, 07:44 AM

And where are you told that knowledge is something to be respected? Not from schools, from your family. I was at best a C student in school but I can still hold my own in most conversations. My parents made a line, not about getting good grades but being a well rounded person. I can remember my Dad telling me: read the news paper, if you watch TV watch the Discovery channel or the History channel, etc. School systems can't interst a child in education. Hence why parents play an essential role in why the youth of today (if you go buy every 500 person poll or what the media says) are behind other areas.

I think if anything schools have been forced from their initial role. Originally a school was simply a place of education. Students arrived and were informed of the general knowledge they would need for life. Now, thanks to the attitude of the country, the nation has forced not education on the school system but instead made the school system a babysitter. Schools now have to deal with the following: sexual harassment when a student is 5, students with zero home life, students with no control and no respect. These are issues that either didn't exist before or situations where the school would simply turn to the parent to step in. The school is no longer a place of education but instead a really inept day care for teenagers.

fln8tive · #13 05-03-2006, 08:08 AM

Babysitters and social coordinators....and what about a mandatory national service program for the pimply slugs...?

rayxi · #14 05-03-2006, 12:33 PM

There's two ingredients required for learning. A receptive student and a competent teacher (teaching environment). Without either one it's going to be a failure. The best school in the world cannot teach an unwilling student with a bad attitude. A willing, eager student will learn little from an inept teacher or a dysfunctional teaching environment.

Given there are two variables in the equation the ultimate responsibility is still with the parents. After all, who's kid is it, the government's or the parent's? While parents could (should) demand better schools from the government the government won't (shouldn't) interfere with how parents raise their kids.

I am very cognisant of this in my philosophy for raising my kids. The most important gift a parent can give a child beyond the basic necessities is instilling the proper attitude in dealing with the world. I focus on teaching them concepts of respect, responsibility, kindness and effort. Everything else will follow. There's no school in the world that I could trust to teach my kids those things, assuming they were capable of doing so in the first place.

Eric5273 · #15 05-03-2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayxi

Given there are two variables in the equation the ultimate responsibility is still with the parents. After all, who's kid is it, the government's or the parent's? While parents could (should) demand better schools from the government the government won't (shouldn't) interfere with how parents raise their kids.

So why do you think these problems have developed in recent years? Just pure random chance? And how come they have not happened in all countries around the world? How come in only some countries?

And what do you think is the solution to fixing the problem?

BMW X5 · #16 05-03-2006, 01:03 PM

Eric having just finished college 2 years ago I can tell you that yes the school system SUCKS but its the parents that make a difference. If your kid comes home with an F and you just say "its ok I will talk to your teacher we will straighten this out" that will not get the kid anywhere except that he will know when in trouble mommy and daddy will be there to save the day. Parents need to teach kids responsibility and being responsible for their own actions. Yes I frequently blamed the teachers and professors and administration because 50% of kids entering the univerisity could not read a meter stick. Now for a private technical 4yr university that is a shame. However it is the parents responsibility to realized and admit there is a problem and get help such as tutoring or mentoring. Seems from all the posts you are taking on the devils advocate role instead of the reasonable role

JV · #17 05-03-2006, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

So why do you think these problems have developed in recent years? Just pure random chance? And how come they have not happened in all countries around the world? How come in only some countries?

And what do you think is the solution to fixing the problem?

Too many kids learning life lessons and morals from TV, movies, video games, other kids. Accountability is a rare trait because of this.

No one is telling the majority of American children that an education is the one thing that no one can ever take away from you.

In some countries around the world, a person's job/finances don't equal status, education does.

Get kids to start realizing that you can fall back on your education no matter what, and maybe we'll begin to see a change.

JV

BMW X5 · #18 05-03-2006, 01:06 PM

rayxi · #19 05-03-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

So why do you think these problems have developed in recent years? Just pure random chance? And how come they have not happened in all countries around the world? How come in only some countries?

And what do you think is the solution to fixing the problem?

There are many factors and I don't claim to have a handle on any of them.

I suspect the West's media culture is a big factor. Kids are exposed to an incredible amount of mass market media compared to when I was a kid. This is mostly due to adoption of technology into the areas of entertainment and information. When a kid sees star athletes making tens of millions playing sports he's going to question the necessity for school. When film and TV stars make incredible amounts of money and receive media coverage it's very attractive to the kids. Very few of these people put out the message that school is important because for what they do, it actually may not be. Oh, and the parents are buying into it too. How many people do you know that are trying to raise the next Tiger Woods?

Affluent societies spend less time working for the necessities and more time on entertainment and working towards materialistic goals. As a result these things are elevated to a higher social status. The entertainment business is king right now. Information has become a form of entertainment.

I see the geographical differences as a combination of the lag in the media culture (it's coming!) and the differences in culture itself. You see the struggle happening with recently immigrated families.

North American families are becoming increasingly culture generic. The melting pot is good in some ways but as in baking, mixing random ingredients it doesn't always turn out. The "old" cultures had a focal point and a history that made them at least identifiable and consistent (good or bad). It's hard to "fix" North American culture because it's a rapidly moving target.

Anyway, I'm not an expert on these matters so I'll stop here. The above is just my brain farts for the day.

Eric5273 · #20 05-03-2006, 01:49 PM

I still haven't heard anyone say what should be done. There have been general suggestions at what needs to happen, but no solutions to how it can be accomplished.

Also, do you think this problem is also related to crime? As we have seen the quality of education decline over the last 30 years, we have seen crime and the number of people behind bars increase. Today there are a higher percentage of people behind bars in the United States than in any other country in the world.

I'm not sure what the numbers are in other states around the country, but in 1973 there were 7 prisons in New York State. Today there are 73 prisons. And there has been no net increase in population in NY since 1973.

Obviousy I believe there is some relation between kids not being properly educated, and then growing up to become criminals. I think most people would agree.

In my opinion, if we don't spend some serious money on fixing up the inner cities, we will still spend the money in the long run, but instead it will be on more prisons and more police. When does it all end? When half of the population is behind bars and nobody can find the United States on a map?

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