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  #21  
Old 05-10-2006, 11:01 PM
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Just an interesting thing I thought I would mention about the Bible....

The most common Bible that is read in the US is the King James Bible. The King James Bible was translated to English in the 17th Century.

At the time, the common word for "sky" was "heaven". Apparently the word "sky" is a much more recent word. This explains why people even today often look up towards the sky when praying to God.

At the time, man did not know what was up in the sky, or in outer space, as no technology had been invented yet that allowed flight or space travel. So it was assumed that God existed up in the sky. Thus the word for "heaven" and "sky" were one and the same.

In the 20th century, after new technology allowed man to fly and then travel into outer space, we now know what is up in the sky, so a new word was needed to differentiate between "sky" and "heaven", so now we have both words.

But if you want to really understand the Bible better, try reading it this way..... Whenever you see the word "heaven", instead substitute the word "sky". Then you will be reading it the way it was meant to be read.

Just food for thought beyond this, but if you are a really deep thinking, try to come up with a good reason for why man assumed God was up in the sky in the first place. If you think hard enough, I'm sure you can figure that one out. (hint: ever see the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy"?)
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  #22  
Old 05-10-2006, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WagnerX5
Apparently there is a push to have a disclaimer marking the DaVinci Code as Fiction......
Just what society needs, another warning label. Saves us from thinking for ourselves. Whew!

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  #23  
Old 05-11-2006, 01:28 AM
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I respect your opinion. However any christian worth his salt would never base his appreciation of Bible text on faith alone. There has to be proof that an account happend, and that proof should come from the scriptures. It is true that some scriptures do require faith and those scriptures are prophecy not yet fulfilled. However it is because the scriptures are proven factual that's what produces the product of the faith that i have. It's been nice talking about it though. Thanks for the interchange.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JV
Again, your faith in the text of the Bible is making it an undisputed truth for you whether I or anyone else has proof to the contrary, and that is perfectly fine. Because faith does not follow logic, I am not going to go there, but your belief that the text of the Bible is an account of 100% factual and real happenings is a product of your individual faith.



By that same token, my truth or your truth may not be THE truth, but our faith makes us believe in it!


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  #24  
Old 05-11-2006, 01:48 AM
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Just a little additional information.

The term Heaven depends on the context. For example: The Hebrew sha·ma?yim (always in the plural), which is rendered “heaven(s),” seems to have the basic sense of that which is high or lofty. (Ps 103:11; Pr 25:3; Isa 55:9) The etymology of the Greek word for heaven (ou·ra·nos?) is uncertain.

The expression “midheaven” applies to the region within earth’s expanse of atmosphere where birds, such as the eagle, fly. (Re 8:13; 14:6; 19:17; De 4:11 [Heb., “heart of the heavens”]) Somewhat similar is the expression “between the earth and the heavens.” (1Ch 21:16; 2Sa 18:9)

The expression “heavens of the heavens” is considered to refer to the highest heavens and would embrace the complete extent of the physical heavens, however vast, since the heavens extend out from the earth in all directions.—De 10:14; Ne 9:6.

As to your question "why man assumed God was up in the sky in the first place."

In many texts, therefore, the “heavens” stand for God himself and his sovereign position. His throne is in the heavens, that is, in the spirit realm over which he also rules. (Ps 103:19-21; 2Ch 20:6; Mt 23:22; Ac 7:49) From his supreme or ultimate position, God, in effect, ‘looks down’ upon the physical heavens and earth (Ps 14:2; 102:19; 113:6), and from this lofty position also speaks, answers petitions, and renders judgment. (1Ki 8:49; Ps 2:4-6; 76:8;

As far as your statement "At the time, man did not know what was up in the sky, or in outer space," The following may prove of interest.

Some of the constellations we know today were first described in ancient Babylon. Among these are the 12 constellations representing the signs of the zodiac. These played—and still play—an important role in astrology, the divination of the supposed influence of the stars on human affairs. Looking for omens in the stars, though, is condemned in the Bible. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) Yet, worshipers of God were aware of the existence of constellations. The Bible book of Job, for instance, speaks about God as the one “making the Ash constellation, the Kesil constellation, and the Kimah constellation.”—Job 9:9.

The names of many of the constellations that we know today are from Greek mythology. Names like Cepheus, Cassiopeia, Andromeda, and Hercules can still be found on modern-day star charts.

Finally: if Columbus had studied the Bible perhaps he could have learned something.

In proved science we see God’s written Word speaking out centuries ahead of human scientists and proving 100-percent accurate. Nearly 2,700 years ago, at a time when the so-called learned men were speculating about the earth’s being flat, God caused his word to be written: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isa. 40:22) The prophet Isaiah had not traveled around the earth. He had not been up in a space vehicle looking down to see that the earth was round, but God, who dwells in the heavens and who created the earth, gave the truth as to its shape.
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  #25  
Old 05-11-2006, 03:10 AM
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Well, I was going another direction with this...

There are cave drawings from many thousands of years ago that show the reason that man probably thought God or "the gods" came from up in the sky.

Did you ever see the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy"??

During WWII, there were some Pacific Islands discovered that apparently had been isolated from the rest of the world up until that point. The native people living on these islands were living thousands of years behind the rest of the world. Our military actually set up bases on a few of these Islands, and due to the planes taking off and landing, the natives actually thought that they were gods....

Native American religions also assume the gods originate from up in the sky.

These examples show that the idea of gods coming from up in the sky does not originate with the Bible or with any single book.

If you read the Quran and specifically about Mohammed's experiences, he does indeed claim to have been taken up into the "heavens" and claims to have circled the earth while up in the heavens. While anyone who is not Muslim would probably dismiss this episode as pure fiction, there is another explanation for Mohammed's experiences.....

Keep thinking.....I'm sure you will realize what it is....
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  #26  
Old 05-11-2006, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric5273
If you read the Quran and specifically about Mohammed's experiences, he does indeed claim to have been taken up into the "heavens" and claims to have circled the earth while up in the heavens.
Is this like Louis Farakhan's claim that he was taken up in "the mother wheel" while in Mexico, and told by aliens that President Reagan was going to bomb Libya?

OK, back to your regularly scheduled religious debate.
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  #27  
Old 05-11-2006, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by statdoc
Is this like Louis Farakhan's claim that he was taken up in "the mother wheel" while in Mexico, and told by aliens that President Reagan was going to bomb Libya?
You laugh, but read the Quran sometime. It does sound exactly like that.
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2006, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric5273
You laugh, but read the Quran sometime. It does sound exactly like that.
You can't read the Quran unless you read Arabic. You might read a translation in another language, but it would be considered something OTHER THAN the Quran (ie, not authorized by the Islamic leadership), and purportedly loses much by such translation.
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2006, 03:37 AM
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No dis-respect intended but many years ago someone said to me "KEEP LIVING". At that time i understood the words but not the greater meaning. So keep going in what ever direction your going. Everyone must make the journey. I have not finished mine yet but i have already traveled the path you seek. It appears you are beginning your journey and thats why I provided the information in my previous post. I know if you study it carefully that in time you will understand. If i'm not here when you get back please share what you have learned with someone new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric5273
Well, I was going another direction with this...

There are cave drawings from many thousands of years ago that show the reason that man probably thought God or "the gods" came from up in the sky.

Did you ever see the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy"??

During WWII, there were some Pacific Islands discovered that apparently had been isolated from the rest of the world up until that point. The native people living on these islands were living thousands of years behind the rest of the world. Our military actually set up bases on a few of these Islands, and due to the planes taking off and landing, the natives actually thought that they were gods....

Native American religions also assume the gods originate from up in the sky.

These examples show that the idea of gods coming from up in the sky does not originate with the Bible or with any single book.

If you read the Quran and specifically about Mohammed's experiences, he does indeed claim to have been taken up into the "heavens" and claims to have circled the earth while up in the heavens. While anyone who is not Muslim would probably dismiss this episode as pure fiction, there is another explanation for Mohammed's experiences.....

Keep thinking.....I'm sure you will realize what it is....
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Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2006, 03:40 AM
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No debate here just sharing some information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statdoc
Is this like Louis Farakhan's claim that he was taken up in "the mother wheel" while in Mexico, and told by aliens that President Reagan was going to bomb Libya?

OK, back to your regularly scheduled religious debate.
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Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….
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