What would the adequate punishment be? - Page 2

Wagner · #11 09-23-2006, 08:33 PM

Ahh nah, executions and such are only expensive now because people have made the justice system and correctional system a fruitcake. Commit murder? Death is the penalty? Shot that afternoon. DONE. Money spent, a couple of court days...some scientists and a .45 cal round. Mistakes will happen, sure, but the bulk will be very much guilty.

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motordavid · #12 09-23-2006, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

Ahh nah, executions and such are only expensive now because people have made the justice system and correctional system a fruitcake. Commit murder? Death is the penalty? Shot that afternoon. DONE. Money spent, a couple of court days...some scientists and a .45 cal round. Mistakes will happen, sure, but the bulk will be very much guilty.

AbsolfookinLutely, Ryan. Succinct and it is the primary and basic reason for the "costs" and time.

* * * * * * * *

Nice links and C&Ps, Eric...and, I am sincere. But, listing the "costs" of capital punishment and those processes is like listing the costs of keeping all the Gramps and Grams "alive" in the world via the medical "effort": Nice and startling stats and no one want to lose G&G or, put that 1/4% of the innocent poor bastards to death unjustly, but it is the Political & "Justice" process and, the morally corrupt/bible thumping idiots and their lobbies, that hold up/drag out/raise the price of offing the bad motherFu ckers, imo.

No arm wrestle...but, once one crosses society's line of decency and, basic live and let live foundation, in harmony and peace, then that MF'er is no fookin longer needed in that society or, on the freakin planet, imo.
BR,mD

Eric5273 · #13 09-23-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

Ahh nah, executions and such are only expensive now because people have made the justice system and correctional system a fruitcake. Commit murder? Death is the penalty? Shot that afternoon. DONE. Money spent, a couple of court days...some scientists and a .45 cal round. Mistakes will happen, sure, but the bulk will be very much guilty.

Over the years, thousands of people on death row or with life in prison sentences have been released years later because new evidence proved they were innocent even after being convicted of murder by a jury.

If what you suggest is done, we will wrongly execute many people. Even one mistake like that is not acceptable IMO. What do you think?

cmyX6go · #14 09-23-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5Eric

I'll agree to never post again in another political thread. You have my word.

Thanks,

Eric5273

JV · #15 09-23-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

Ahh nah, executions and such are only expensive now because people have made the justice system and correctional system a fruitcake. Commit murder? Death is the penalty? Shot that afternoon. DONE. Money spent, a couple of court days...some scientists and a .45 cal round. Mistakes will happen, sure, but the bulk will be very much guilty.

Hold the phone...that'd make it wayyyy too easy for those "in power" to set up and snuff out those they think are undesireable or working against their causes, etc. It can't be like that- the appeals process is a check on people being set up or wrongly accused and we need to keep it on the books forever.

OTOH, Eric...calling the prison system the "Corrections System" is erroneous, as few get 'correct' while in there. Calling the War Department the Defense Department doesn't change anything except the nomenclature...it's still the War Department.

JV

Eric5273 · #16 09-23-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JV

Hold the phone...that'd make it wayyyy too easy for those "in power" to set up and snuff out those they think are undesireable or working against their causes, etc. It can't be like that- the appeals process is a check on people being set up or wrongly accused and we need to keep it on the books forever.

How dare you to suggest that someone in our government is that corrupt that they would actually cause the death of another American citizen!! That is unacceptable!!

JV · #17 09-23-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

How dare you to suggest that someone in our government is that corrupt that they would actually cause the death of another American citizen!! That is unacceptable!!

Well, I do call it as I see it, and I'm aware of very few former CIA/FBI/NSA higher ups dying in their sleep of natural causes...

Eric5273 · #18 09-23-2006, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motordavid

put that 1/4% of the innocent poor bastards to death unjustly

It's much much higher than 1/4%.

Death Sentences Being Overturned in 2 of 3 Appeals

June 12, 2000

Reversals Are Attributed to Errors by Defense Lawyers, Police and Prosecutors

The most far-reaching study of the death penalty in the United States has found that two out of three sentences were overturned on appeal, mostly because of serious errors by incompetent defense lawyers or overzealous police officers and prosecutors who withheld evidence.

The study, an examination of appeals in all capital cases from the time the Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty, in 1976, to 1995, also found that 75 percent of the people whose death sentences were set aside were later given lesser sentences after retrials, in plea bargains or by order of a judge. An additional 7 percent were found not guilty on retrial.

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So between 1976 and 1995 (20 year period), 7% of those who were sentenced to death were found not guilty of murder after a later appeal.

Are you comfortable with executing murderers if it means that 7 out of every 100 that are executed are actually innocent of the crime?

Wagner · #19 09-24-2006, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Over the years, thousands of people on death row or with life in prison sentences have been released years later because new evidence proved they were innocent even after being convicted of murder by a jury.

If what you suggest is done, we will wrongly execute many people. Even one mistake like that is not acceptable IMO. What do you think?

As I stated, mistakes happen. How many of the guilty were guilty? I for one never intend to put myself in a scenario where I could be precieved, beyond a reasonable doubt, as a murderer. Maybe I just expect more out of society.

It is exactly that wait wait wait we could be wrong attitude that causes these problems in society. I'm pretty sure that had the two D'bags from Columbine been arrested you'd be the first to say "send them to a sanitarium" instead of "shoot them in the head". Two different schools of though, one no more 'correct' than the other.

And comparing stats from 76-95 in the year 2006 is asinine as so much of science has change in the 11 years since those stats were valid.

motordavid · #20 09-24-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

It's much much higher than 1/4%.
----------

So between 1976 and 1995 (20 year period), 7% of those who were sentenced to death were found not guilty of murder after a later appeal.

Are you comfortable with executing murderers if it means that 7 out of every 100 that are executed are actually innocent of the crime?

It was a number I grabbed at...that 7% stat is old news and most of it stems from pre-DNA days and slobs with crummy defense lawyers.

Am I comfortable with executing murderers...? Absolfookinlutely. Give them a fair trial on Wed., and hang'emhigh on Friday night. No injections, 10 years later.

Couldn't find a stat for you, on the % of death row guys that have never been convicted of another felony or heinous crime, but I suspect it is very, very small: thus, most death row punques are social trash, sociopaths and scum, neway.

I didn't know this was Debate Class 101, so I will avoid the C&Ps and the arm wrestle...I think you are missing my point: heinous acts of violence, esp. if they result if death of an innocent victim should provide for capital punishment, in a short time frame, for the azzhole that took someone's life, or diddled some kid. That's my position; all the Goog on the net will not change my opin. "Treatment", prison, etc., are for non-murderers and non-child molestors.
GL,mD

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