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#21
09-28-2006, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
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Nothing in my example had anything to do with you or whether you like the Venezuelan people or not. Sorry if I was not clear. I've noticed that many people in this forum are not able to see things from the other side, if even for a hypothetical example. If you are so bias that you can only see things from one side, then how can you have a rational discussion about such things? I'm sure you've heard the saying "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". If you are incapable of imagining "them" doing anything at all to you, then you can throw this saying out the window. Quote:
1. Chavez had no motive to turn against the Bush Administration. Prior to the coup, he was on good terms with the United States since he had taken office 3 years earlier. We were (and still are) the largest importer of Venezuelan oil. There is absolutely no reason he would turn against our government without very good reason. 2. Our government has given safe haven to some of the leaders of the coup and has refused to extradite them to Venezuela to be prosecuted for their crimes. I doubt the leaders of the coup would have fled to the United States if they were not already assured they would be given political assylum. That alone is reason enough to believe that our government was mixed up with these people. 3. U.S. media cooperated with the cover story by printing that Chavez had indeed resigned. Most of the media around the world DID NOT.
__________________
 my experience on X5world when I spend too much time posting in political threads in the lounge... 
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#22
09-28-2006, 02:27 PM
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OK my .02 cents. Anyone involved with Fidel Castro is up to no good and can't be trusted!. I'm glad to see Citgo realized the threat this person imposes on the US.
__________________
Present - 2006 X3 Present - 2003 Z4 Past - 2001 740il Past - 2001 R1150RT Past - 2000 Volvo S80
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#23
09-28-2006, 02:47 PM
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Totally disagree. Never have understood this bias against Castro. BS policy put in place by children of former Cubans and leading to a US foreign policy dictated by less then 2% of the US population.
__________________
An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting. "promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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#24
09-28-2006, 02:51 PM
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I'm proud to be an American, But until you have personally experienced communism, you don't know what you're talking about. Sorry if I offended you.
__________________
Present - 2006 X3 Present - 2003 Z4 Past - 2001 740il Past - 2001 R1150RT Past - 2000 Volvo S80
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#25
09-28-2006, 02:53 PM
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The reason is purely economic. When Castro took power in Cuba, he nationalized the Sugar and Tabacco industries. He also closed down all of the gambling and prositution. At the time, most of the Sugar and Tabacco fields were owned by American corporations, and all of the casinos in Havana were American owned as well. Most of the Cubans who came to Miami during this period were the wealthy land owners who had their land confiscated. Why do you think our government has always demonized socialist and communist governments? Do you really believe it has anything to do with "freedom" and "democracy"? Those are just excuses for the real reason: 
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my experience on X5world when I spend too much time posting in political threads in the lounge...
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#26
09-28-2006, 02:55 PM
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You're not offending me. I don't believe in any way that the sanctions against Cuba are at all acceptable. And to say it is because of Communism is BS. The USA has completely (whether they admit it or not) open trade with VERY communist China.
__________________
An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting. "promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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#27
09-28-2006, 03:22 PM
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Reply to Eric,
My Parents lost every credential they ever had when they came to the US. They came here for political asylam. My mom was a doctor in Cuba and my dad owned a chain of retail stores. All was lost when they decided, for the good of their children, it was time to leave a country that no longer was interested in their own. No one who has ever come from Cuba, came here wealthy!
__________________
Present - 2006 X3 Present - 2003 Z4 Past - 2001 740il Past - 2001 R1150RT Past - 2000 Volvo S80
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#30
09-28-2006, 05:04 PM
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If your family had stayed in Cuba, your dad's chain of stores would have been taken from him and run by the government. He would have received some sort of compensation for them -- probably not their true value. And most likely he would have been retained to continue managing the chain if he was good at his job, and he would receive a paycheck from the government each week. Your mom, being a doctor, would have been able to keep practicing medicine, but would not be able to work in a private practice. Instead, she would receive her paycheck from the government just like cops, teachers, firemen, and the mailman. She would earn more money than most professions, but not 10-20 times as much as the average person as is typical for American doctors. But then again, Cuban doctors do not have to pay for Medical school or malpractice insurance. Communism is terrible for those who have money, those who own large amounts of land, and those who own successful businesses. It is also bad for those who are professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc.) -- these people can earn much more money in a capitalist economy. However, communism is good for poor and uneducated people as they are all guaranteed to be given a job, health care, free education including secondary education (college, grad school), a place to live, etc. As a result of this, you'll notice much lower crime rates in communist countries. Communism levels the playing field. If you are better off than most, you probably are not thrilled with the idea of a level playing field. If you are poor and illiterate, as most Cubans were in 1959, then you would be thrilled with Communism. Except for a few terrorists and war criminals who were part of the Bautista regime, those who came to Florida for "political assylum" did not come because of any political persecution, but because of economics. And they were mostly upper class professionals and business owners who did not want to live under socialism. They were smart and educated, and they were able to organize themselves into a very influential lobby. Them, together with the large corporations who had their tabacco and sugar fields confiscated, and organized crime (which had their casinos and prostitution rings in Havana closed) were able to pressure the government into these rediculous anti-Cuba policies that still exist today.
__________________
my experience on X5world when I spend too much time posting in political threads in the lounge...
Last edited by Eric5273; 09-28-2006 at 05:09 PM.
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