legal advise please, do i have a case?

hayaku · #1 06-03-2005, 05:51 PM

last year in june i had my old carpet removed and replaced with brazilian cherry engineered wood plank floors. the entire first floor was done. it was gorgeous. dr kewl can tell you how good they looked.

the installer worked as a subcontractor for a different company. the invoices were from the contractor company.

then the torrential rains hit socal in jan/feb and the floors started to lift, 2 bubbles. i called the installer and he came out to fix it on his dime. a few weeks after that, more rain and new spots began to lift. since then i have a total of 9 spots that have lifted with some bubbles as high as 5 inches tall, 18 inches wide and 15 feet long.

I have pictures of everything from installation to current state.

conversations with the installer persued and eventually he never returned any of my calls and went mia.

i then called the contractor who's license was on the line for the installation. he came out with a floor expert. their expert opinion: migratory water problems with the slab. the slab would soak in way too much water and discharge up towards the wood floor. they advised me that this is a home owners insurance claim and not an installation problem.

i filed a claim with my home owners insurance. they send out their experts and do their review. one month later, their expert opinion: installation problem. either the installer did not do a moisture test on the slab or did not use a moisture sealant or used the wrong sealant. claim denied based on faulty installation. they advised i go back to the contractor. the official report has a paragraph stating that the installer may be liable for up to four years after the installation of the floor.

the contractor called up the manufacturer of all the flooring goods and they claimed they will not warrant any product that has a discharge rate of 12 lbs per day. evidently my slab discharges more then 12 lbs of water a day, hence the sealant not being able to stick to the slab.

for a while, the contractor was playing the same no answer the phone game with me like the installer did. until i called him and notified the contractor that if we were to go to court and he loses, he will be responsible for:
- cost of all receipts
- cost of replacement of the floor back to carpet (original state)
- cost of my lawyer fees
- cost of court fees
- will have negative repercusions with BBB
- will have negative repurcsuions on his contractor license
- possibly increase in his liability insurance for his work

now the contractor is claiming this is an "act of god" and there is nothing he can do. he claims he is a small time company and doesn't have the money to repay me. he claims his liability insurance will not cover this claim either. he claims that his peers in the industry said that he is not liable for my floor.

i am now having to pull the damaged floor out of my house and put down new carpet out of my own pocket (paying for flooring twice).

do i have a case to take the contractor to court? if we go to court, it will be long and messy i'm afraid.

thanks for patience in reading through this. (that little voice in the back of my head is saying: "nitwit you should've finished law school!")

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SANguru · #2 06-03-2005, 06:05 PM

adam,

do you mind if I forward this to one of friends up here who specializes in this stuff? Perhaps he can help you out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayaku

last year in june i had my old carpet removed and replaced with brazilian engineered wood plank floors. the entire first floor was done. it was gorgeous. dr kewl can tell you how good they looked.

the installer worked as a subcontractor for a different company. the invoices were from the contractor company.

then the torrential rains hit socal in jan/feb and the floors started to lift, 2 bubbles. i called the installer and he came out to fix it on his dime. a few weeks after that, more rain and new spots began to lift. since then i have a total of 9 spots that have lifted with some bubbles as high as 5 inches tall, 18 inches wide and 15 feet long.

I have pictures of everything from installation to current state.

conversations with the installer persued and eventually he never returned any of my calls and went mia.

i then called the contractor who's license was on the line for the installation. he came out with a floor expert. their expert opinion: migratory water problems with the slab. the slab would soak in way too much water and discharge up towards the wood floor. they advised me that this is a home owners insurance claim and not an installation problem.

i filed a claim with my home owners insurance. they send out their experts and do their review. one month later, their expert opinion: installation problem. either the installer did not do a moisture test on the slab or did not use a moisture sealant or used the wrong sealant. claim denied based on faulty installation. they advised i go back to the contractor. the official report has a paragraph stating that the installer may be liable for up to four years after the installation of the floor.

the contractor called up the manufacturer of all the flooring goods and they claimed they will not warrant any product that has a discharge rate of 12 lbs per day. evidently my slab discharges more then 12 lbs of water a day, hence the sealant not being able to stick to the slab.

for a while, the contractor was playing the same no answer the phone game with me like the installer did. until i called him and notified the contractor that if we were to go to court and he loses, he will be responsible for:
- cost of all receipts
- cost of replacement of the floor back to carpet (original state)
- cost of my lawyer fees
- cost of court fees
- will have negative repercusions with BBB
- will have negative repurcsuions on his contractor license
- possibly increase in his liability insurance for his work

now the contractor is claiming this is an "act of god" and there is nothing he can do. he claims he is a small time company and doesn't have the money to repay me. he claims his liability insurance will not cover this claim either. he claims that his peers in the industry said that he is not liable for my floor.

i am not having to pull the damaged floor out of my house and put down new carpet out of my own pocket (paying for flooring twice).

do i have a case to take the contractor to court? if we go to court, it will be long and messy i'm afraid.

thanks for patience in reading through this. (that little voice in the back of my head is saying: "nitwit you should've finished law school!")

hayaku · #3 06-03-2005, 06:07 PM

please do.. trying to figure out if i am stuck with the bill twice or if i can reclaim any of it back...

thanks

JV · #4 06-03-2005, 06:35 PM

Hayaku- did your old carpet have a waterproof backing or something? Wouldn't you have noticed damp spots on your old carpet if it was your slab discharging the water?

JV

hayaku · #5 06-03-2005, 06:40 PM

problem is... where i live is in the hills and usually hot and dry. socal got the freakish rains this year. my gut is telling me that if they did the moisture test back in june of 04, it would've read all is clear because it was soo hot and dry. a false positive so to speak.

to answer your question, no the carpet and matting was normal and there was no moisture or mold when they removed it initially. also because it was so hot and dry in my area typically...

MiCkEy · #6 06-03-2005, 06:47 PM

For engineered woodplanks or any flooring, a moisture test is required. Even the company manufacturing the hardwood will not cover their warranty if they find out the test was not performed. Your contractor did not fullfil his obligation by first testing the subfloor for moisture.

B-Line · #7 06-04-2005, 12:32 AM

Hayaku,

Just so you know, your not alone..

I also live in So-Cal as you know. I purchased a brand new house two years ago and am the first occupant.

- Since moving in, my white oak hardwood floors with ebony stain have buckled in certain areas with no accounting for why other than the house still settling.

- to make matters worse, some of my roof is actually a balcony. What this means is, in certain areas I have flat roof. This past winter the rains did their damage on me as well. I had leaks in the house, big spots or rather lines on the ceilings as a result of water damage that leaked in.

My downstairs room which is a shale like marble actually looked wet in many areas. As if water was coming up from underneath it. And there is a smell of mildew.

I have not spoken with any contractors yet regarding repairs, I just haven't had the time but am going to address it next week.

So, here is the simple/long answer that I would advise you. I am very unhappy about the problems and would love to sue the builder but at the end of the day, you can't squeeze blood from a stone. Even if you were to win, good luck collecting a judgment. The heartache and pain you will go through with lawyers, the courts, etc. will only give you an ulcer. And even if you are one of the lucky ones that actually wins a case like this, what will it cost you in emotional harm?

Be fortunate that the value of homes here in SOCAL is booming and the value of your home has maybe doubled in the last two years. Pay for the repairs and move on..

- also, your contractor is not absouletely wrong. The amount of rain we had this year was ridicilous..... It was a 500 year winter if you know what I mean. I hope I can head my own advice when I get an estimate next week. I might have to rip up part of my foundation and my balconies.
But even if that does happen, the contractor who sold me my house is on the losing side. He sold me the house at COST. and in the past two years, it has paid for itself.
So even if I should have to shell out BIG BIG bucks for repairs, I am still on the positive side of the equation.

I know this is not the info you would like to hear and also having been through two corporate law suits in the last decade.. I can tell you this, the only people who win are the attorney's.

good luck.
B

Echoi17 · #8 06-04-2005, 04:16 AM

We who live here in So Cal should feel ever so lucky...especially if we own a home...being a realtor I see the prices keep increasing...which is nice when you own a home...but anyways, back to the point. I agree with B-line in that "normally," you may not win the case since this rainy season was really unusual. However, regardless of how unusual it is, if the contractor did not perform the moisture test, he/she automatically defaults because they didn't do what was needed. It's like me as a realtor; if I don't actually go in and physically inspect a house that I am listing and something goes wrong, I will be one of the first to get sued; and I will automatically lose the case on grounds that I didn't do what is required. So...if the cost is too big, take it to court...but it will take a long time too...it's really up to you...even though you will most likely win...or maybe you can work something out with the contractor without going to court...like splitting the bill half-half and have him install it for free...

hayaku · #9 06-04-2005, 12:59 PM

Thanks guys. I really rather not go to court, nor do I have the time for it. However I will engage with a specialist in this area to determine whether or not I have an official case. I also was thinking that should I go to court, chances are I should win but I may not be able to collect. I have no idea if the contractor is able to come up with half the bill either...

BlueX5guy · #10 06-04-2005, 01:10 PM

B-Line,

If you bought your home after Jan 1, 2003, in California you may have extended warranty coverage on new homes under SB800. Do a little research on this Senate Bill and get in touch your builder, you will have a good case if they don't take care of you.

I work for a builder in No Cal, and I know we would be in there making the repairs to your house.

Dennis

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

Hayaku,

Just so you know, your not alone..

I also live in So-Cal as you know. I purchased a brand new house two years ago and am the first occupant.

- Since moving in, my white oak hardwood floors with ebony stain have buckled in certain areas with no accounting for why other than the house still settling.

- to make matters worse, some of my roof is actually a balcony. What this means is, in certain areas I have flat roof. This past winter the rains did their damage on me as well. I had leaks in the house, big spots or rather lines on the ceilings as a result of water damage that leaked in.

My downstairs room which is a shale like marble actually looked wet in many areas. As if water was coming up from underneath it. And there is a smell of mildew.

I have not spoken with any contractors yet regarding repairs, I just haven't had the time but am going to address it next week.

So, here is the simple/long answer that I would advise you. I am very unhappy about the problems and would love to sue the builder but at the end of the day, you can't squeeze blood from a stone. Even if you were to win, good luck collecting a judgment. The heartache and pain you will go through with lawyers, the courts, etc. will only give you an ulcer. And even if you are one of the lucky ones that actually wins a case like this, what will it cost you in emotional harm?

Be fortunate that the value of homes here in SOCAL is booming and the value of your home has maybe doubled in the last two years. Pay for the repairs and move on..

- also, your contractor is not absouletely wrong. The amount of rain we had this year was ridicilous..... It was a 500 year winter if you know what I mean. I hope I can head my own advice when I get an estimate next week. I might have to rip up part of my foundation and my balconies.
But even if that does happen, the contractor who sold me my house is on the losing side. He sold me the house at COST. and in the past two years, it has paid for itself.
So even if I should have to shell out BIG BIG bucks for repairs, I am still on the positive side of the equation.

I know this is not the info you would like to hear and also having been through two corporate law suits in the last decade.. I can tell you this, the only people who win are the attorney's.

good luck.
B

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