I HATE TO ADMIT ... & I need some advice.

B-Line · #1 06-24-2005, 07:57 PM

Howdy Ya'll..

My confession of the day: I have been tossing around the idea of selling my 1997 Carrera 2S and purchasing a 2003-2005 M3.

Now I know being on this board it is probably a bad place for me to ask advice as we all love our bimmers, but some objective views would be great.

So let me tell you why: I love my Pcar. When I bought it, I was living in S. Florida and going to the track once a month. I had a company that ran the track days and also had a garage/pitt at the track. They would transport my race tires to the track for me and give me full track side assistance on site.

Now here in Socal, I can't find the same "support." When I want to go to the track, I can't get my race wheels and tires into the car and I have no one to look after my car (bleeding brake fluid, etc.) And my Pcar being almost 8 years old is starting to show signs of increased maintainence costs. Needs a new clutch, rotors, I have a hard time passing smog in Cali. for some reason (I have to go to referee station.)

So, I am thinking about fixing the clutch and rotors and selling my baby. But alas, that leaves me with no track car. M3 jumps into my brain and I start looking at pricing. It would seem, if I sell my pcar at a good price, which I probably could, I could jump into a very new, slightly preowned M3.
I won't bother with an extra set of wheels, I could just use the street set up for my track days and keep it simple.

The upside: Easier to maintain, warranty work, bigger, newer, M3, with more HP. Could probably fit track wheels in the car and transport a track setup with no assistance.

The downside (long, sorry) - The M3 is easier to drive fast (that might sound like a plus but actually, for a driver like myself, I love the edge of the seat driving that comes with a porsche. I sold my Audi S4 because it was too easy to drive fast on a track.) The harder the car is to drive, the better the driver you become. Almost anyone can drive an M3 fast on a track. Only some people can handle the 911 despite the less HP.
- Since I own a 4.8is, having a M3 in the garage is going to feel very much like the same car when I get in it. The buttons, dash, seats, etc. it's just going to feel like a smaller, sportier, 4.8is. Where the Porsche feels like a completely different car.
- I would not get an SMG, I would go with the manual 6speed gear box. I might consider the SMG if this was my everyday car, but for my track car, I want a clutch, a clutch with a pedal that I control.
- The 911 I own is probably one of the best Porsches made. It is the last of the air cooled, has the turbo body with aero kit, sport seats, silver/bl, 42K miles and has classic great looks that still make it look brand new next to today's cars. -- The M3 "seems" to be less, exotic, less to appreciate, they are all over the roads in LA. (not that there is a shortage of 911's)

- So, what should I do??
Should I keep the 911, fix her up, maybe mod a little bit, put in satellite radio, go to the track with my street setup and forget about using slicks. And keep the last of the air cooled 911's ??

Or, should I sell the 911, (maybe even at a slight profit after 4 years)
and trade her in for a low mileage, 6spd M3 ??

Thanks in advance..
B

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Thunder22 · #2 06-24-2005, 08:10 PM

i'ld keep the porsche, do the repairs, and use the street setup for track days. It's a no-brainer to me...

SANguru · #3 06-24-2005, 08:15 PM

KEEP THE 993!!! DO NOT GET RID OF A CLASSIC. YOU WILL REGRET IT. and YES! I AM YELLING!

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

Howdy Ya'll..

My confession of the day: I have been tossing around the idea of selling my 1997 Carrera 2S and purchasing a 2003-2005 M3.

Now I know being on this board it is probably a bad place for me to ask advice as we all love our bimmers, but some objective views would be great.

So let me tell you why: I love my Pcar. When I bought it, I was living in S. Florida and going to the track once a month. I had a company that ran the track days and also had a garage/pitt at the track. They would transport my race tires to the track for me and give me full track side assistance on site.

Now here in Socal, I can't find the same "support." When I want to go to the track, I can't get my race wheels and tires into the car and I have no one to look after my car (bleeding brake fluid, etc.) And my Pcar being almost 8 years old is starting to show signs of increased maintainence costs. Needs a new clutch, rotors, I have a hard time passing smog in Cali. for some reason (I have to go to referee station.)

So, I am thinking about fixing the clutch and rotors and selling my baby. But alas, that leaves me with no track car. M3 jumps into my brain and I start looking at pricing. It would seem, if I sell my pcar at a good price, which I probably could, I could jump into a very new, slightly preowned M3.
I won't bother with an extra set of wheels, I could just use the street set up for my track days and keep it simple.

The upside: Easier to maintain, warranty work, bigger, newer, M3, with more HP. Could probably fit track wheels in the car and transport a track setup with no assistance.

The downside (long, sorry) - The M3 is easier to drive fast (that might sound like a plus but actually, for a driver like myself, I love the edge of the seat driving that comes with a porsche. I sold my Audi S4 because it was too easy to drive fast on a track.) The harder the car is to drive, the better the driver you become. Almost anyone can drive an M3 fast on a track. Only some people can handle the 911 despite the less HP.
- Since I own a 4.8is, having a M3 in the garage is going to feel very much like the same car when I get in it. The buttons, dash, seats, etc. it's just going to feel like a smaller, sportier, 4.8is. Where the Porsche feels like a completely different car.
- I would not get an SMG, I would go with the manual 6speed gear box. I might consider the SMG if this was my everyday car, but for my track car, I want a clutch, a clutch with a pedal that I control.
- The 911 I own is probably one of the best Porsches made. It is the last of the air cooled, has the turbo body with aero kit, sport seats, silver/bl, 42K miles and has classic great looks that still make it look brand new next to today's cars. -- The M3 "seems" to be less, exotic, less to appreciate, they are all over the roads in LA. (not that there is a shortage of 911's)

- So, what should I do??
Should I keep the 911, fix her up, maybe mod a little bit, put in satellite radio, go to the track with my street setup and forget about using slicks. And keep the last of the air cooled 911's ??

Or, should I sell the 911, (maybe even at a slight profit after 4 years)
and trade her in for a low mileage, 6spd M3 ??

Thanks in advance..
B

B-Line · #4 06-24-2005, 08:24 PM

I don't have a 993, I have a 911....

I hope you know I'm kidding !!! But in all honesty, I can't even tell you how many people to which I have said, " I love your 996!" and they respond, "it's not a 996, it's a 911."
I say " Nevermind..." lol..

-- I am slowly moving away from the M3 idea.. Keep those opinions coming !!!

PersonaNonGrata · #5 06-24-2005, 08:57 PM

My vote is for keeping your 911. That truly is a classic, in particular because it's the C2S. A brother-in-law has a 993 C4S and my brother has a 993 C2S and they are in the same boat as you, wanting a new car but cannot bear the thought of parting with their classics, both of which are in pristine condition. I tell them the same thing I'm telling you: keep it!

Go with street wheels/tires and enjoy it as is. Your deal in S. Florida sounded good but since you're not getting to the track as much anyway, you shouldn't worry about R comps, etc. It's all for fun anyway. If you must have a track car you might consider just creating a dedicated track car, balls out, cage, fire system, etc. from something like an E36 M3.

Keep the 911!!!

SANguru · #6 06-24-2005, 09:03 PM

LOL... why not get a spec miata for a track car?

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

I don't have a 993, I have a 911....

I hope you know I'm kidding !!! But in all honesty, I can't even tell you how many people to which I have said, " I love your 996!" and they respond, "it's not a 996, it's a 911."
I say " Nevermind..." lol..

-- I am slowly moving away from the M3 idea.. Keep those opinions coming !!!

hayaku · #7 06-24-2005, 09:40 PM

my opinion.. get a dedicated track car and stop fooling around.

from the sound of things, you are fast and one mistake at that level, at the track could be fatal. even if you don't make a mistake, someone else may and if your car isn't prepped to protect you, things could be disastrous.

thats why i have given up on the dual purpose car. there is no such thing. just a car with compromises and when your skills are developed, the compromise is your safety.

i have a pro team supporting my track needs. they are rather expensive but i got them for a deal when they built out my car. in fact, they pretty much insist on going to the track with me when i get pro coaching.

ketchep is a work of art now, but still... that car is prepared to sacrifice its life to save mine. now that i have my eyes open fully opened to track driving from a pro perspective, i am more convinced that street cars on track are high risk when you drive over 6/10ths of what you or the car is capable of. anyone putting rcomps on a street car and trying to squeeze out that last 10th of a sec is risking their life whether or not they will admit it.

you are right about an m3 being able to drive faster and it takes much more skill to drive a pcar fast. but thats where the challenge is and your skill level develops in leaps and bounds if you can accept those challenges.

with that said, the m3 will not meet your needs imo...

a prepared car in any class, make, model, etc will do wonders for you...

B-Line · #8 06-24-2005, 09:58 PM

Hayaku,

Thanks for the well thought words. I will admit I have considered the prospect of a dedicated track car but have opted against for these reasons.

1) Very expensive. - You can save money by transporting, garaging and doing some simple wrench turning... But, I am not a wrench turner. And, I am not that handy. I don't even like the idea of putting a car on a trailer by myself. I am worried I will not secure it properly.
- When I do competitive driving, I plan on it being with a arrive and drive like Skip Barber series. My pcar is designed to keep me smiling with DE's until such time I am ready to fork out the $$$ to really RACE ..
- You are absouletly right about slicks.. However, I don't use them to squeeze out extra seconds off my lap time, I use them because I like the increased grip. I often find on street tires, especially when they get real hot, they can get dangerous, slippery. Whereas with slicks, when the heat increases they tend to grip more. Of course there is a threshold, but I can't reach them with 282hp. and with lap traffic.
- Having had no less than 60 track days, (including the beginner and advanced Skip Barber racing school.) I am pretty comfortable with the performance of my car. I have however thought about adding a roll bar, hanz device, etc. Sort of a hybrid.
- I wish I had the time to dedicate to a race car, a spec miata or such.. But it's too time consuming and expensive. Down the road, that will change. For now, I need a vehicle that I can drive to and from the track and just let off some steam. I know the path will take me to racing in a couple years, till then, "must keep Apexing !!! " lol..

B

B-Line · #9 06-24-2005, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

My vote is for keeping your 911. That truly is a classic, in particular because it's the C2S. A brother-in-law has a 993 C4S and my brother has a 993 C2S and they are in the same boat as you, wanting a new car but cannot bear the thought of parting with their classics, both of which are in pristine condition. I tell them the same thing I'm telling you: keep it!

Go with street wheels/tires and enjoy it as is. Your deal in S. Florida sounded good but since you're not getting to the track as much anyway, you shouldn't worry about R comps, etc. It's all for fun anyway. If you must have a track car you might consider just creating a dedicated track car, balls out, cage, fire system, etc. from something like an E36 M3.

Keep the 911!!!

So, I think I'm going to keep the 911.. Thanks for the words gang. I took it to heart.. I shouldn't get rid of my 993. It took me 4 months to find it. And I really love the car. Come to think of it, the only thing I should even consider trading it in for is the 993 Biturbo, but then i have to deal with awd !!! That's why I got rid of the S4 !!

- I have thought about a dedicated race car but am not ready to take the financial plunge of a crew at every event. And I am certainley not qualified to work on the car.

- So I will keep the 993, upgrade to the RS Clutch and RS Lightweight Flywheel. Maybe even throw some coilovers on.. But only after a bolt in roll bar is installed. Besides, a bolt on Roll bar looks pretty cool anyhow !!
Paint it to match the exterior and, BLING !

B

4.6is Ryder · #10 06-24-2005, 10:13 PM

B...keep the Pcar. As a former Dinan S3 ///M3 owner, I can tell you that the car is sweet on the track. But do keep in mind, it is definitely a street car. You can change to rcomp tires all day long. But the bottom line is still your safety. One of my best friends got out of a 02 ///M5 and got a 911. He is a track aholic. He can't believe how much harder it is to drive the Pcar on the track. He claims that with great skill set one would be hard pressed to go the other way (Pcar to ///Mcar) He too agrees with your statement. The ///M is easier to drive. I also think that a ///M car is easy to drive, but I don't think that it is more forgiving than the Pcar. If you truely enjoy the track, keep the Pcar and do a few mods. As stated in earlier post, It's all in fun! Keep that in perspective and be SAFE.............Phil

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