Man this pisses me off ->

[MrLabGuy]

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush on Friday outlined ways to help homeowners facing foreclosure—the administration's first effort to deal with an expected wave of defaults fueled by the mortgage crisis.
The initiatives, which are not aimed at bailing out lenders or speculators, are designed to help homeowners with risky mortgages keep their houses. In remarks in the Rose Garden, Bush also discussed efforts to keep the problems from arising in the future. "The government's got a role to play, but it is limited," Bush said. "A federal bailout of lenders would only encourage a recurrence of the problem." The president insisted that the U.S. economy was strong and could weather recent turbulence in the financial markets. He said the mortgage market, especially the subprime sector, has shown particular strain. One of the most troubling developments has been an increase in adjustable-rate mortgages, which start out with low interest rates, then reset to higher rates after a few years.

"This has led some homeowners to take out loans larger than they could afford based on overly optimistic assumptions about the future performance of the housing market," Bush said. "Others may have been confused by the terms of their loan, or misled by irresponsible lenders. Whatever the reason they chose this kind of mortgage, some borrowers are now unable to make their monthly payments, or facing foreclosure."
A key element of Bush's plan would allow homeowners with good credit histories, but who cannot afford their mortgage payments, to refinance into mortgages insured by the Federal Housing Administration to keep from defaulting.

Earlier this month, Bush predicted that the ongoing decline in the housing market wouldn't become precipitous, but would result in a "soft landing."
He rejected any direct government aid to homeowners losing their houses to foreclosures, saying he only supported federal government help that would encourage refinancing and educate prospective home buyers about risky mortgage terms "Anybody who loses their home is somebody with whom we must show enormous empathy," the president said at an Aug. 9 news conference. "The word `bailout,' I'm not exactly sure what you mean. If you mean direct grants to homeowners, the answer would be no, I don't support that."

On Friday, Bush:

—Urged Congress to pass legislation that would give the Federal Housing Administration more flexibility to help mortgage holders with subprime mortgages.
—Pledged to work with Congress to reform the tax code to help troubled borrowers rework their loans.
—Called for rigorously enforcing predatory lending laws and strengthening lending practices. Foreclosure and late payments have spiked, especially for so-called subprime borrowers with blemished credit histories or low incomes. Higher interest rates and weak home values have made it impossible for some to pay or to keep up with their monthly mortgage payments. Some overstretched homeowners can't afford to refinance or even sell their homes. Mortgage foreclosures and late payments are expected to worsen. Some 2 million adjustable rate mortgages are to reset to higher rates this year and next. Steep penalties for prepaying mortgages have added to some homeowners' headaches.
The economy enjoyed a strong revival in the spring although growing troubles in housing and credit markets have darkened prospects considerably since then. The Commerce Department reported Thursday that the gross domestic product grew at an annual rate of 4 percent in the second quarter—the strongest showing in more than a year.
But that growth could be the best showing for some time as the economy continues to be battered by the worst housing slump in 16 years and a widening credit crisis that has sent financial markets on a roller- coaster ride in recent weeks.

Sorry but if you were stupid enough to get into a RISKY MORTGAGE you should have thought twice about buying a house you could not afford in the first place.

5-year adjustable notes, no money down and interest only loans are for suckers. The government has no right to spend taxpayers money to bail out idiots.

[alpac]

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

Sorry but if you were stupid enough to get into a RISKY MORTGAGE you should have thought twice about buying a house you could not afford in the first place.

I took me 6 years after I started working to buy my first house, small one, which I knew I could afford paying the mortgage for. Then it took me another 9 years to buy a bigger house, then another 6 years to buy a vacation home... Bottom line buy what you can afford and do not ask others to pay for your mistakes.

[SANguru]

Let's preface this conversation by saying that both the feds and the homebuyers have responsibility and I do not condone that. But you are failing to see the big picture. This "correction" affects even those who are NOT in subprime loans and or jumbo loans. In a default situation, everybody loses. Banks lose because they lose liquidity. Homeowner loses because he is forced out the house,there by affecting the job market also if he has to move out of the region.

With banks skittish and places like Countrywide hurting really bad, you will have a hard time even getting ANY loan as in this situation. This in turn will cause housing prices to go down because nobody can afford to buy. (this includes YOUR house)This also affects companies that are not cash rich. They can't borrow, can't expand the business, stunts business growth. So to stay afloat, guess what some have to raise prices to compensate. That comes out of your pocketbook.

It's a 0 sum game. Everybody loses since this is a global economy.

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush on Friday outlined ways to help homeowners facing foreclosure—the administration's first effort to deal with an expected wave of defaults fueled by the mortgage crisis.
The initiatives, which are not aimed at bailing out lenders or speculators, are designed to help homeowners with risky mortgages keep their houses. In remarks in the Rose Garden, Bush also discussed efforts to keep the problems from arising in the future. "The government's got a role to play, but it is limited," Bush said. "A federal bailout of lenders would only encourage a recurrence of the problem." The president insisted that the U.S. economy was strong and could weather recent turbulence in the financial markets. He said the mortgage market, especially the subprime sector, has shown particular strain. One of the most troubling developments has been an increase in adjustable-rate mortgages, which start out with low interest rates, then reset to higher rates after a few years.

"This has led some homeowners to take out loans larger than they could afford based on overly optimistic assumptions about the future performance of the housing market," Bush said. "Others may have been confused by the terms of their loan, or misled by irresponsible lenders. Whatever the reason they chose this kind of mortgage, some borrowers are now unable to make their monthly payments, or facing foreclosure."
A key element of Bush's plan would allow homeowners with good credit histories, but who cannot afford their mortgage payments, to refinance into mortgages insured by the Federal Housing Administration to keep from defaulting.

Earlier this month, Bush predicted that the ongoing decline in the housing market wouldn't become precipitous, but would result in a "soft landing."
He rejected any direct government aid to homeowners losing their houses to foreclosures, saying he only supported federal government help that would encourage refinancing and educate prospective home buyers about risky mortgage terms "Anybody who loses their home is somebody with whom we must show enormous empathy," the president said at an Aug. 9 news conference. "The word `bailout,' I'm not exactly sure what you mean. If you mean direct grants to homeowners, the answer would be no, I don't support that."

On Friday, Bush:

—Urged Congress to pass legislation that would give the Federal Housing Administration more flexibility to help mortgage holders with subprime mortgages.
—Pledged to work with Congress to reform the tax code to help troubled borrowers rework their loans.
—Called for rigorously enforcing predatory lending laws and strengthening lending practices. Foreclosure and late payments have spiked, especially for so-called subprime borrowers with blemished credit histories or low incomes. Higher interest rates and weak home values have made it impossible for some to pay or to keep up with their monthly mortgage payments. Some overstretched homeowners can't afford to refinance or even sell their homes. Mortgage foreclosures and late payments are expected to worsen. Some 2 million adjustable rate mortgages are to reset to higher rates this year and next. Steep penalties for prepaying mortgages have added to some homeowners' headaches.
The economy enjoyed a strong revival in the spring although growing troubles in housing and credit markets have darkened prospects considerably since then. The Commerce Department reported Thursday that the gross domestic product grew at an annual rate of 4 percent in the second quarter—the strongest showing in more than a year.
But that growth could be the best showing for some time as the economy continues to be battered by the worst housing slump in 16 years and a widening credit crisis that has sent financial markets on a roller- coaster ride in recent weeks.

Sorry but if you were stupid enough to get into a RISKY MORTGAGE you should have thought twice about buying a house you could not afford in the first place.

5-year adjustable notes, no money down and interest only loans are for suckers. The government has no right to spend taxpayers money to bail out idiots.

[vegasX5]

Education is key here, and we had millions of utterly uneducated people financed into things they couldn't afford. You bail out those people, and they will never learn. Let them foreclose, try to find a rental, not be able to use credit for a few years, and those people will never make that mistake again.

We have one of the worst savings rates (actually negative) of all modern civilized countries, and we have systems in place to keep our society totallly ignorant to their mistakes. Whenever our citizens make a bad choice, they are automatically victims and demand assistance, and they are showed "empathy" rather than allowing them to grow from their ignorant state. There are so few people that actually take personal responsibility for any of their actions in this country that it makes me sick.

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by vegasX5

Education is key here, and we had millions of utterly uneducated people financed into things they couldn't afford. You bail out those people, and they will never learn. Let them foreclose, try to find a rental, not be able to use credit for a few years, and those people will never make that mistake again.

We have one of the worst savings rates (actually negative) of all modern civilized countries, and we have systems in place to keep our society totallly ignorant to their mistakes. Whenever our citizens make a bad choice, they are automatically victims and demand assistance, and they are showed "empathy" rather than allowing them to grow from their ignorant state. There are so few people that actually take personal responsibility for any of their actions in this country that it makes me sick.

You are under the assumption that the only way to "educate" people is for them to suffer and learn their lesson the hard way. If that is the case, then maybe the surgeon general should not require a warning on tobacco products. Maybe people who smoke should learn their lesson by getting cancer and finding out the hard way.

Or we can simply educate people by providing them with information. How about some regulation of the mortgage industry. If certain types of loans are unfair and "only for suckers", then the government should step in and pass legislation so that such loans are illegal. Or at least people should be required to read some sort of government mandated disclaimer which explains all the risks of such loans. Not everyone is aware of such risks, and I'm sure the salespeople selling these loans do not tell them about it as they are paid on commission and want to close the sale.

It's the government's job to protect its citizens, and even though it may be hard to believe, there are actually things other than terrorism that we need protection from.

[Quicksilver]

Trouble is; even though educated and provided with information some folks are gonna try to game the system. That's why certain people will go for the "certain types of loans which are unfair and "only for suckers", . They reason i can get over and get out before the rates go up. Instead they got caught. Perhaps it's these folks( These suckers that is) that others want to see get a lesson. Not the poor sap who didn't have the moxy to read the documents he was signing.

Originally Posted by Eric5273

You are under the assumption that the only way to "educate" people is for them to suffer and learn their lesson the hard way. If that is the case, then maybe the surgeon general should not require a warning on tobacco products. Maybe people who smoke should learn their lesson by getting cancer and finding out the hard way.

Or we can simply educate people by providing them with information. How about some regulation of the mortgage industry. If certain types of loans are unfair and "only for suckers", then the government should step in and pass legislation so that such loans are illegal. Or at least people should be required to read some sort of government mandated disclaimer which explains all the risks of such loans. Not everyone is aware of such risks, and I'm sure the salespeople selling these loans do not tell them about it as they are paid on commission and want to close the sale.

It's the government's job to protect its citizens, and even though it may be hard to believe, there are actually things other than terrorism that we need protection from.

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Perhaps it's these folks( These suckers that is) that others want to see get a lesson. Not the poor sap who didn't have the moxy to read the documents he was signing.

And it's the lazy bum who sits home and collects welfare that people have a problem with, not the single widowed mother of 3 who collects welfare to feed her children.

I understand that. But the good comes with the bad. You cannot punish everyone because you have a problem with only some.

[MrLabGuy]

Example...I took out a 5 year adjustable loan on a condo rental I own and rent out about 4 years ago. I had every intention of selling it before the loan adjusted to a higher rate as part of a strategy to get the most out of my investment.

It now looks as though I will lose out because the market is flooded with condos and the value has dropped about 75,000 in the last 6 months.

Good news for me is I've owned the property for about 20 years which I purchased for $87,000 as a first home. Even in this depressed market it will go for $325,000 so I'm not hurting so bad after-all.

Motto of the story is I gambled and lost about 75-80K but will live with my decision. My overall strategy of buying property I could afford had paid off in the long run.

[SANguru]

so very interesting that you brought that up and i quote:

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

Sorry but if you were stupid enough to get into a RISKY MORTGAGE you should have thought twice about buying a house you could not afford in the first place.

I sure hope you're not calling yourself stupid. As with any investment you have risk. It's all about how much risk you are willing to take. You win some you lose some.

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

Example...I took out a 5 year adjustable loan on a condo rental I own and rent out about 4 years ago. I had every intention of selling it before the loan adjusted to a higher rate as part of a strategy to get the most out of my investment.

It now looks as though I will lose out because the market is flooded with condos and the value has dropped about 75,000 in the last 6 months.

Good news for me is I've owned the property for about 20 years which I purchased for $87,000 as a first home. Even in this depressed market it will go for $325,000 so I'm not hurting so bad after-all.

Motto of the story is I gambled and lost about 75-80K but will live with my decision. My overall strategy of buying property I could afford had paid off in the long run.

[MrLabGuy]

Originally Posted by SANguru

so very interesting that you brought that up and i quote:

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

Sorry but if you were stupid enough to get into a RISKY MORTGAGE you should have thought twice about buying a house you could not afford in the first place.

I sure hope you're not calling yourself stupid. As with any investment you have risk. It's all about how much risk you are willing to take. You win some you lose some.

Hardly, in my case it was in investment property I'd owned for almost 20 years. The loan was minimal and I planned to sell the condo in a few years prior to the 5 year term.

At the time of the loan it was a sound move considering the real estate market 4 years ago. Same goes with the stock market...You win some and you lose some. Good ideas today are a bust tomorrow.

The big difference here is that I did not take on more loan than I could financially handle and I'm not looking for a bailout. What I am doing is refinancing to a 30 year fixed which still has a decent rate. I'll sit on the rental property for a few more years and wait until the inevitable up-swing in the market. I ended up losing a little money in the short term out of equity but I'll recover without any government subsidy.

Real estate is an investment just like the market...You win some and lose some...When you lose you lick your wounds, learn to diversify and come out swinging.

Michael