New House Wiring Suggestions - Page 4

LeMansX5 · #31 08-31-2005, 08:32 PM

Thanks.

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LVR · #32 08-31-2005, 09:30 PM

Hi guys,

Have just done all of this for my own home rebuild and would like to offer the following suggestions.....

My house is around 4500sq ft and now has a home theatre, over 200 low voltage lights with dimmers, mood settings, music streamed to indoors/outdoors simultaneously with individual playlists, foxtel to theatre, living plasma, bedroom LCD, intercom/videophone to front gate and 4 internal rooms, all able to be remote controlled from anywhere in or out of the house.

I went and had a home automation consultant draw up a cabling diagram and my wish list of functions. He came back with a bill of $240,000. I bought his cabling diagram (so he got paid for his expertise) gave it to my electrician and started my own research based on my own experiences.

Here in Oz we have a major company who do structured wiring and intelligent sytems. Whilst they are very good, each light switch is 'intelligent' and therefore needs its' own programming, (and the labour for that is excessive).

I used a simple relay set up from a company called CONSON http://www.conson.com/engelsk/start.htm and any electrician can install it for you. It means that the programming is fairly simple and they do it for free.

I have lighting coming on when I get home, low level night setting for when we get up to check on our son, an 'all off' button night sweep of the lights next to our bed and mood lighting depending on the request. I am also installing a light and movement sensor for the passageways so that at night they come on automatically (to 20%) in case I am not near the switches.

This week the interface for the reverse cycle airconditioning goes in so I can operate it from anywhere also.

I was able to get the lighting done for $12,000.... less than 1/3 of the 'intelligent' solution. My neighbour went down the track of a similar thing with the big company and they are there every second week reprogramming or fixing faults.

For the sound I used a DVICO Tvix http://www.pcauthority.com.au/review.aspx?CIaRID=2317 ($250 plus hard drive)with 160Gb hard drive as the music server, linked to Roku Soundbridge ($900 ea) controllers in each area. http://www.rokulabs.com/ The Roku's act like an Ipod and you just need speakers and Amp in the area you want the music. The speakers can be top end or computer speakers, up to your sound taste. It can all be wired (as I have) or wireless.

The Home Theatre is connected to a dedicated server room where I have placed the Foxtel connection, PS2, Internet with media keyboard, connection to the Tvix (for stored DVD's) and a standalone DVD player in the room itself.

I have connected the plasma in the living area to the Foxtel, Tvix and a local home theatre speaker DVD system from Pioneer for everyday use. This means that I have the musioc server playing through that DVD system as well.

I have then used a network extender to enable the remotes that work on IR to be used as wireless, and am now setting up a Phillips Ipronto tablet http://www.pronto.philips.com/index.cfm?id=938 instead of a Crestron touchpanel. When I compared specs and programming, the Phillips wins as I can program it and it is cheaper. (as an aside you can set up most notepad computers to do the same thing)

I am also waiting to get a Nevo remote as they are programmable and are apparently the manufacturers with ALL the codes for hi fi equipment remotes found here http://www.mynevo.com/index.php?page_id=1# This is for the Home theatre room and outside etc.

When I sat down and looked at what can be done versus what is really practical, I dismissed some of the consultants overspecified hardware and features. All I want is to be able to have ease of use without massive configuration issues.

I am happy to answer the front door from either my remote, a telephone or the intercom, and I regard it as security wise to take a photo and email to me the visitors voicemail that have come when I am not home.

That said, I am equally happy to go and answer the front door myself.

So far I have spent $12,000 on the lighting control, about $8,000 on the music distribution, remote and intercom and $10,000 on the plasma (52 inch) and LCD

It is nearly complete and I expect to have spent around $40,000 when all is said and done..... I believe that with a bit of effort, you can achieve a virtually future proof set up as I can upgrade any of my components when I like.

IMHO, computer manufacturers are also moving in to the entertainment world as these items 'converge' and when that happens, components such as a $14,000 IMERGE music sever will get blown away by things such as the Tvix.

Yes you can spend $240,000, but do you HAVE to?

Hope this helps

Osbee · #33 09-01-2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LVR

Hi guys,

Have just done all of this for my own home rebuild and would like to offer the following suggestions.....

My house is around 4500sq ft and now has a home theatre, over 200 low voltage lights with dimmers, mood settings, music streamed to indoors/outdoors simultaneously with individual playlists, foxtel to theatre, living plasma, bedroom LCD, intercom/videophone to front gate and 4 internal rooms, all able to be remote controlled from anywhere in or out of the house.

I went and had a home automation consultant draw up a cabling diagram and my wish list of functions. He came back with a bill of $240,000. I bought his cabling diagram (so he got paid for his expertise) gave it to my electrician and started my own research based on my own experiences.

Here in Oz we have a major company who do structured wiring and intelligent sytems. Whilst they are very good, each light switch is 'intelligent' and therefore needs its' own programming, (and the labour for that is excessive).

I used a simple relay set up from a company called CONSON http://www.conson.com/engelsk/start.htm and any electrician can install it for you. It means that the programming is fairly simple and they do it for free.

I have lighting coming on when I get home, low level night setting for when we get up to check on our son, an 'all off' button night sweep of the lights next to our bed and mood lighting depending on the request. I am also installing a light and movement sensor for the passageways so that at night they come on automatically (to 20%) in case I am not near the switches.

This week the interface for the reverse cycle airconditioning goes in so I can operate it from anywhere also.

I was able to get the lighting done for $12,000.... less than 1/3 of the 'intelligent' solution. My neighbour went down the track of a similar thing with the big company and they are there every second week reprogramming or fixing faults.

For the sound I used a DVICO Tvix http://www.pcauthority.com.au/review.aspx?CIaRID=2317 ($250 plus hard drive)with 160Gb hard drive as the music server, linked to Roku Soundbridge ($900 ea) controllers in each area. http://www.rokulabs.com/ The Roku's act like an Ipod and you just need speakers and Amp in the area you want the music. The speakers can be top end or computer speakers, up to your sound taste. It can all be wired (as I have) or wireless.

The Home Theatre is connected to a dedicated server room where I have placed the Foxtel connection, PS2, Internet with media keyboard, connection to the Tvix (for stored DVD's) and a standalone DVD player in the room itself.

I have connected the plasma in the living area to the Foxtel, Tvix and a local home theatre speaker DVD system from Pioneer for everyday use. This means that I have the musioc server playing through that DVD system as well.

I have then used a network extender to enable the remotes that work on IR to be used as wireless, and am now setting up a Phillips Ipronto tablet http://www.pronto.philips.com/index.cfm?id=938 instead of a Crestron touchpanel. When I compared specs and programming, the Phillips wins as I can program it and it is cheaper. (as an aside you can set up most notepad computers to do the same thing)

I am also waiting to get a Nevo remote as they are programmable and are apparently the manufacturers with ALL the codes for hi fi equipment remotes found here http://www.mynevo.com/index.php?page_id=1# This is for the Home theatre room and outside etc.

When I sat down and looked at what can be done versus what is really practical, I dismissed some of the consultants overspecified hardware and features. All I want is to be able to have ease of use without massive configuration issues.

I am happy to answer the front door from either my remote, a telephone or the intercom, and I regard it as security wise to take a photo and email to me the visitors voicemail that have come when I am not home.

That said, I am equally happy to go and answer the front door myself.

So far I have spent $12,000 on the lighting control, about $8,000 on the music distribution, remote and intercom and $10,000 on the plasma (52 inch) and LCD

It is nearly complete and I expect to have spent around $40,000 when all is said and done..... I believe that with a bit of effort, you can achieve a virtually future proof set up as I can upgrade any of my components when I like.

IMHO, computer manufacturers are also moving in to the entertainment world as these items 'converge' and when that happens, components such as a $14,000 IMERGE music sever will get blown away by things such as the Tvix.

Yes you can spend $240,000, but do you HAVE to?

Hope this helps

It is true that most things in life can be done cheaper. You can take a Honda for $19,000 put $15,000 into it and have it out perform an E46 M3. The difference, which is very hard to convey to most people is INTERGRATION and RELIABLITY. Having one system talk to the others, creating simple to use interfaces, fast response times with products that are backed by billion dollar companies. Systems like Lutron Homeworks (lighting control) and Crestron (automation) are the MOST EXPENSIVE systems you can buy. It comes back to the same two words. “Integration” and “Automation”. These guys know what automation is. In most cases, and maybe not yours, people want one touch easy to operate devices. Some of the brands you’ve listed allow us to create a seamless intergraded interface.

As for a Pronto vs. Crestron, I tend to disagree that they are the same. We install both and I can personally program both. There are some features you are lacking. For example, you don’t get 2-way communications of your thermostat control, mp3 server and lighting status. In addition, you can only control components via IR and have no capability of RS-232 control, which is most cases is very important. If you take a pronto and say a Crestron STX-1700CXP and put them side by side, you will notice that sequences between inputs and power on commands are MUCH faster with Crestron. The reason for this is because the Crestron Processor is bi-directional and knows if display is on, or off and which input it is on at all time. Crestron also can provide you with feedback on the volume level and light level of your theater. Our nickname for Pronto is “press and prey”. Because you can send an IR code and hope it gets there. Also, not all of the discrete input and power on codes are available via IR, some components only through RS-232.

Juanted · #34 09-01-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haigha

IIRC, Cat 5e four pair will support 10 Gbps. However, regular Cat 5 won't. I put Cat 5e in my house about six years ago. If I was installing now I would go with Cat 6 or Cat 7. There's no sense saving a few bucks by installing any variant of Cat 5 anymore. I pointed this out to Juan in an earlier thread.

Also, if the builder can set it up so that you can easily thread new cable through conduits, that will make "future proofing" less of an issue.

Yes, you did, and guess what? I upgraded all my wiring to Cat 6!

thanks for the heads-up.

Juan

haigha · #35 09-01-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaefer

Yes, you did, and guess what? I upgraded all my wiring to Cat 6!

thanks for the heads-up.

Juan

You're welcome

I bet it didn't cost you A$240,000 either :p

LeMansX5 · #36 09-01-2005, 08:09 PM

Which is a good hard drive based Video server? I have read good things about Kaleidescape. Would like to know if anybody is using any of these brands and their review.
Xperinet
MAX-MMS02S
Request Multimedia Video Request
Escient Fireball

or Bill Gates XP media center edition

Sound & Vision mag's review:The Connected House: Serve It Up!

haigha · #37 09-01-2005, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMansX5

Which is a good hard drive based Video server? I have read good things about Kaleidescape. Would like to know if anybody is using any of these brands and their review.
Xperinet
MAX-MMS02S
Request Multimedia Video Request
Escient Fireball

or Bill Gates XP media center edition

Sound & Vision mag's review:The Connected House: Serve It Up!

No experience with the others but I've been running MCE since last December. I like it and you can use it for serving your music, pictures, surfing the web, listening to subscribed music, NPR archives, weather and so on. There are other software choices too but at the time I looked at it MCE was the only one supporting HDTV. For now it's only OTA HDTV, but I think it will support certain cable boxes with FireWire out later this year. The nice thing about a Windows based solution is you can run other programs, upgrade the hard drive and add/change components. The XBOX 360 will have Media Center Extender software built in and it will support HD.

OT: Here's an interesting article on 1080p for those considering it. My current set only does 1080i.

The Clicker: Futureproofing with 1080p? - Engadget - www.engadget.com
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000303057041/

LVR · #38 09-01-2005, 08:50 PM

Quote:

It is true that most things in life can be done cheaper. You can take a Honda for $19,000 put $15,000 into it and have it out perform an E46 M3. The difference, which is very hard to convey to most people is INTERGRATION and RELIABLITY. Having one system talk to the others, creating simple to use interfaces, fast response times with products that are backed by billion dollar companies. Systems like Lutron Homeworks (lighting control) and Crestron (automation) are the MOST EXPENSIVE systems you can buy. It comes back to the same two words. “Integration” and “Automation”. These guys know what automation is. In most cases, and maybe not yours, people want one touch easy to operate devices. Some of the brands you’ve listed allow us to create a seamless intergraded interface.

As for a Pronto vs. Crestron, I tend to disagree that they are the same. We install both and I can personally program both. There are some features you are lacking. For example, you don’t get 2-way communications of your thermostat control, mp3 server and lighting status. In addition, you can only control components via IR and have no capability of RS-232 control, which is most cases is very important. If you take a pronto and say a Crestron STX-1700CXP and put them side by side, you will notice that sequences between inputs and power on commands are MUCH faster with Crestron. The reason for this is because the Crestron Processor is bi-directional and knows if display is on, or off and which input it is on at all time. Crestron also can provide you with feedback on the volume level and light level of your theater. Our nickname for Pronto is “press and prey”. Because you can send an IR code and hope it gets there. Also, not all of the discrete input and power on codes are available via IR, some components only through RS-232.

Sure.....to each his own.

I have been able to set up macro's for one touch functions, and, as I stated, I am using wireless transmission (which it comes standard with IEEE 802.11b) via a network extender for the other items.

It was also surprisingly easy to set up, as opposed to an unreliable platform such as X10 that I have experience with.

I also have far more functions installed than what I listed as this thread was of a general nature in relation to pre-wiring, and I was trying to offer a 'real person' (read end user) perspective.

I don't for one moment suggest that a tricked up honda is any comparison to a BMW, however any professional that makes a living relying upon over engineered solutions for the sake of 'gee wiz' value in order to charge outrageous fees, is living in denial of the market.

In my case that saving may well run to several hundred thousand dollars.

Most professionals I have come across are secure in their knowledge of what can or cannot be done, yet are unable to consider new ways/simpler configurations/cheaper solutions. They are frequently dazzled by the technical prowess of their specification, and miss the point entirely.

Is this arrogance or apathy? I leave that for others to decide.

You rightly mention 2-way communication of the remote, but I point out that I don't need to look at a remote to see if my lights are on..... as I said, technical prowess......

The end user wants his lights to turn off with a one touch remote. Do you spend $45,000 to do it or $12,000??? Whilst the billion dollar company may charge $45k because they have made each and every light switch programmable and therefore requiring significant labour, is it the right solution?

It is the very same attitude I found when taking the time to track down a simpler backbone than that offered to me, yet still interfaces with the Crestrons/AMX's/HPM's etc

The market will speak.

For example, I have noted that when looking for a video intercom that also operates as a telephone, able to be answered handsfree and operate the front gate (thus eliminating a wall phone and separate intercom) all the local 'professionals' claimed such a thing was not possible or didn't exist.

Needless to say when I went and found what I wanted I have arranged my own installation.

Cheers