We don't negotiate with terrorists...

[Eric5273]

Well, most of the time we don't....

Reuters: Israel and Hamas agree to Gaza truce


Funny how a few weeks ago, President Bush addressed the Knesset and said over and over how "we" (Israel and the US) should not negotiate with terrorists, and every time he said that, they applauded. What a bunch of two-faced liars they all are.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0080515-1.html

[Brisbane]

Diplomacy is always conducted on a lower level no matter what world leaders might say for the crowds. World leaders speak for effect and in an attempt to influence diplomacy. That's just the way it works and the way it has always worked- why do you have a problem with it? It sounds like in this case it worked out well.

What we don't do is send the US President over to meet terrorists, the heads of rogue states, or potential and real enemies without preconditions- and usually a virtual agreement in hand- ahead of time. Other countries do the same- you don't see Merkel or Sarkozy trotting down to Iran or over to Venezuela, do you?

But I'm sure Obama will change all that...

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by Brisbane

why do you have a problem with it? It sounds like in this case it worked out well.

Yes, it sounds like it worked out fine. I don't have a problem with what they do. I have a problem with what they say. They are liars.

Originally Posted by Brisbane

But I'm sure Obama will change all that...

Sounds like not much will change at all except that he will tell the truth about what they are doing (or plan to do).


On another note, it will be interesting to see how long this cease-fire lasts. Last time they had a cease-fire agreement, it lasted 16 months until Israel broke the cease fire with this attack ( http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/09/mideast/ ) then Hamas responded with the attack on an Israel checkpoint 2 weeks later in which they captured that Israeli soldier, and next thing we had a full blown war. Hopefully there is a little more restraint on both sides this time.

[Wagner]

Not so sure how much faith Israel has in the US currently, only because Bush and Saud are so closely united. 750M to Israel, 500M to SA....

[Brisbane]

The naive remarks Obama's made so far with respect to diplomacy are quite alarming but I'll bet you a $ to a doughnut that if Obama is elected he will say one thing to the public and engage in diplomacy that's quite different. If he doesn't he's a fool- and we're in big trouble.

You don't lay all your cards on the table with a guy like Putin- or Hamas. I don't recall who said it but the quote "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggy until you can find a big stick." had it right.

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by Brisbane

If he doesn't he's a fool

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I would like a president who is not a liar. Unfortunately, there has not been one in my lifetime. But some of the older members here will remember JFK. They have done studies on this, and you cannot find a single thing JFK said throughout his entire time as president that was not the truth. And even though he was only in office for about 30 months, he said a ton more than any president since him as he had one-hour weekly news conferences where he answered questions for the white house press corps. Perhaps that is why he recorded record approval ratings that still have yet to be matched by any president. People like when their leaders are open and do not lie to them....at least this person does.

[Wagner]

JFK, the same guy that back doored the Bay of Pigs and removed missiles from Turkey to get the Russians off the US back? Not to mention loading the Reds with pride which brought on the Golden Age of the Cold War?



People seem to forget what JFK was really working. Not to mention promoting his brother RFK to attorney general for next to nothing..sicking him on Hoffa (who was his boy)...not to mention his mafia ties to Vegas, whatever happened to Monroe? How about Poppa Kenned, he had his own history....remember those points when forming a connection to possible new leaders

JFK, great social leader, not so much with world affairs and defense...hence trying to destroy the CIA...F-up the Joint Chiefs...and sic one General on another. Not to mention his sister was married to the Rat Pack


"Offense wins games, Defense wins championships"

[Brisbane]

Ironic that JFK was one of the few Presidents to visit a world leader (Khruschev) without pre-conditions. As a result Khruschev considered him naive and easily manipulated- and decided to start putting missiles in Cuba.

You might want to ask a few Cubans if JFK lied... the ones still living after that fiasco in the Bay of Pigs where JFK promised to back them up.

BTW if you don't want a President that lies you certainly won't be voting for Obama. His lies are already legendary- even if the MSM hasn't exactly shared that....

[MrLabGuy]

Originally Posted by Wagner

JFK, the same guy that back doored the Bay of Pigs and removed missiles from Turkey to get the Russians off the US back? Not to mention loading the Reds with pride which brought on the Golden Age of the Cold War?



People seem to forget what JFK was really working. Not to mention promoting his brother RFK to attorney general for next to nothing..sicking him on Hoffa (who was his boy)...not to mention his mafia ties to Vegas, whatever happened to Monroe? How about Poppa Kenned, he had his own history....remember those points when forming a connection to possible new leaders

JFK, great social leader, not so much with world affairs and defense...hence trying to destroy the CIA...F-up the Joint Chiefs...and sic one General on another. Not to mention his sister was married to the Rat Pack


"Offense wins games, Defense wins championships"

Don't confuse him with facts...It does not jive with his propaganda.

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by Brisbane

Ironic that JFK was one of the few Presidents to visit a world leader (Khruschev) without pre-conditions. As a result Khruschev considered him naive and easily manipulated- and decided to start putting missiles in Cuba.

You might want to ask a few Cubans if JFK lied... the ones still living after that fiasco in the Bay of Pigs where JFK promised to back them up.

Funny how your order of things is mixed up. The missles were put there BECAUSE of the Bay of Pigs invasion. And the exiles who were invading were indeed backed up by an air attack which killed approximately 4000 Cubans. Their problem was that they were under the illusion that once they landed, the general populace would join their cause. But instead, the exact opposite happened. The general populace, many of who were armed, joined with the Cuban military to defeat them in very short order.

As for JFK's involvement, it was very little. He gave his approval for the operation, yet the CIA lied to him about almost every aspect of it. When he found out, he went public with this and then fired Allen Dulles, head of the CIA since its inception.

In the months following this whole fiasco, JFK issued a number of executive orders which totally changed the way our intelligence agencies operate. At the time, the intelligence agencies were simply running wild with covert ops, assasinations, rigging of election, industrial sabotage, etc. JFK announced publicly he was going to splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces, but all it took was a single executive order, which stated that the joint chiefs would be held personally responsible for all actions taken by or on behalf of the intelligence agencies. This executive order was reversed within 24 hours of LBJ taking office.

The amount of changes JFK made to our government in his 34 months in office is astounding. If he had stayed in power a full 8 years, our country -- and the world -- would have been transformed. Instead, LBJ reversed the course and let the war machine and the intelligence agencies go back to causing havoc around the world.

As for Obama, how many times do I have to say. I AM NOT VOTING FOR OBAMA. Why does everyone keep thinking that I am voting for the guy?