Almost Killed

vinuneuro · #1 09-21-2005, 05:47 PM

Today after coming back from getting my Citizenship, I was driving at about 65 on the highway in my Honda Prelude, 53N, with quite a bit of traffic around me. Suddenly this Dodge Caravan comes up on the shoulder and cuts me off in the left lane as he merges in. I slam the brakes and try to get out of my lane. Well, I start spinning, in spite of ABS, almost hit the median, then some control, but oo wait, then more spinning. Totally I spun 900 degrees. When I was done I was facing the traffic...not a fun thing to look at. I wish morons like that guy didn't exist

.

Things that came to my mind was that:

1.) Holy shit, how did I not hit anything with so much traffic around!
2.) If I had been in the 4Runner, I would have rolled 900 degrees instead of spinning.
3.) If I had been in the X5, I would'v slammed on the brakes, which might have been enough. Worst case, I would have had to make an emergency lane change, and DSC and Corner Brake Control would have saved my ass. In the end I would have thought he was a jackass and kept going.

Not being in our X5 when I needed to be, just made me appreciate it a whole lot more.

btw, what is the correct procedure when doing this kind of lane change as far as shifting gears in a manual transmission goes? Just put it in neutral?

B-Line · #2 09-21-2005, 05:56 PM

Hey Vin,

Glad you made it out okay.

you probably don't realize it but most likely, you jacked the wheel as well.
If you just hit the brakes, your car would never spin.
Also, the prelude is a front wheel drive car.

I am going to assume, obviously this is the fault of the guy in front of you. But you made some unwise decisions in terms of car control to throw a front wheel drive car ( I am assuming it was not wet on the road and no snow ) into a spin like that. I am guessing you really slapped your tank and unsettled the car.

vinuneuro · #3 09-21-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

Hey Vin,

Glad you made it out okay.

you probably don't realize it but most likely, you jacked the wheel as well.
If you just hit the brakes, your car would never spin.
Also, the prelude is a front wheel drive car.

I am going to assume, obviously this is the fault of the guy in front of you. But you made some unwise decisions in terms of car control to throw a front wheel drive car ( I am assuming it was not wet on the road and no snow ) into a spin like that. I am guessing you really slapped your tank and unsettled the car.

Going 65 (on dry road) there is NO way, MY car could have stopped in time, our X might have, but prolly not. Instinct made me slam on brakes and try to change lanes. No extreme turning of the wheel. I really don't know what happend.

ekaz · #4 09-21-2005, 06:19 PM

Glad your OK. 53N can have some crazy drivers, but that's the first I've of something like that.

B-Line · #5 09-21-2005, 06:58 PM

Vin,

Now can I convince you to take a car control course.. (I recommend this for everyone.)

So, here's what probably happened.

a little basic car control lesson: A car only does 3 things, it brakes, it accelerates and it turns.
Having said that, basic physics demands that at any given point, your vehicle has 100% of it's ability (TRACTION) to do any one of those three things.
- Meaning, you can accelerate with 100% traction, Turn with 100% traction or brake with 100% traction.
- you can also divide the traction - 90% acceleration/10%turning. 85% braking, 15% turning, etc. etc.

What you can not do is defy physics. You can not get 110% traction or ability out of your car. Once you have met the threshold of 100% anything that happens after that either decreases your performance (like locking the brakes,) or will throw you into a spin or understeer/oversteer.

- so now lets look at what happened to you. You slammed your brakes as hard as you could.. (using 100% of your traction to stop the vehicle) And then cut the wheel to change lanes (exceeding that 100% traction)

At this point, your braking and turning was toooo much input for the car and it BROKE FREE of stability.
Had you lifted off the brake a little, you could have gotten some steering input in because the car would not be using ALL it's ability to stop the car.

Now when your car was trying to stop full force, all the weight of the vehicle was forced onto the front tires, that's like 3000 lbs. Which was fine, until you cut the wheel. By cutting the wheel, the back end of the car which was relatively weight free broke traction and started to come around on you. By the time you knew what was going on, you were probably facing ass backwards.

- The point of all this info is not neccessarily for you to understand it all, rather, it is to illustrate that there is a clear, concise reason your car did that. Understanding why it did that is the key to helping you next time your in this situation. You can learn everything I just talked about in one day of driving school.

B

tijanaw · #6 09-21-2005, 11:02 PM

WOOW B-line thanks for the lesson, i'll try to remember it next time i'm about to crash.
Seriously though, it's a very good car control lesson, mind posting anymore?

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

Vin,

Now can I convince you to take a car control course.. (I recommend this for everyone.)

So, here's what probably happened.

a little basic car control lesson: A car only does 3 things, it brakes, it accelerates and it turns.
Having said that, basic physics demands that at any given point, your vehicle has 100% of it's ability (TRACTION) to do any one of those three things.
- Meaning, you can accelerate with 100% traction, Turn with 100% traction or brake with 100% traction.
- you can also divide the traction - 90% acceleration/10%turning. 85% braking, 15% turning, etc. etc.

What you can not do is defy physics. You can not get 110% traction or ability out of your car. Once you have met the threshold of 100% anything that happens after that either decreases your performance (like locking the brakes,) or will throw you into a spin or understeer/oversteer.

- so now lets look at what happened to you. You slammed your brakes as hard as you could.. (using 100% of your traction to stop the vehicle) And then cut the wheel to change lanes (exceeding that 100% traction)

At this point, your braking and turning was toooo much input for the car and it BROKE FREE of stability.
Had you lifted off the brake a little, you could have gotten some steering input in because the car would not be using ALL it's ability to stop the car.

Now when your car was trying to stop full force, all the weight of the vehicle was forced onto the front tires, that's like 3000 lbs. Which was fine, until you cut the wheel. By cutting the wheel, the back end of the car which was relatively weight free broke traction and started to come around on you. By the time you knew what was going on, you were probably facing ass backwards.

- The point of all this info is not neccessarily for you to understand it all, rather, it is to illustrate that there is a clear, concise reason your car did that. Understanding why it did that is the key to helping you next time your in this situation. You can learn everything I just talked about in one day of driving school.

B

statdoc · #7 09-21-2005, 06:49 PM

OK, it is obviously ordained that you must get rid of all other vehicles, and only drive the X5!

Kewl X5 · #8 09-21-2005, 07:21 PM

The old saying with a manual tranny...."When you spin, but foot in; when in doubt, both foot out" (Both foot in meaning, pressing the brakes and clutch vs. if you fishtail or plow, then let go of the accelerator, brakes, and clutch and steer yourself out of trouble). However, I agree with above, you should get some driving school course for car control....

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

Today after coming back from getting my Citizenship, I was driving at about 65 on the highway in my Honda Prelude, 53N, with quite a bit of traffic around me. Suddenly this Dodge Caravan comes up on the shoulder and cuts me off in the left lane as he merges in. I slam the brakes and try to get out of my lane. Well, I start spinning, in spite of ABS, almost hit the median, then some control, but oo wait, then more spinning. Totally I spun 900 degrees. When I was done I was facing the traffic...not a fun thing to look at. I wish morons like that guy didn't exist

.

Things that came to my mind was that:

1.) Holy shit, how did I not hit anything with so much traffic around!
2.) If I had been in the 4Runner, I would have rolled 900 degrees instead of spinning.
3.) If I had been in the X5, I would'v slammed on the brakes, which might have been enough. Worst case, I would have had to make an emergency lane change, and DSC and Corner Brake Control would have saved my ass. In the end I would have thought he was a jackass and kept going.

Not being in our X5 when I needed to be, just made me appreciate it a whole lot more.

btw, what is the correct procedure when doing this kind of lane change as far as shifting gears in a manual transmission goes? Just put it in neutral?

LeMansX5 · #9 09-21-2005, 07:43 PM

Glad you are Ok. I have seen terrible drivers on I90/I94 in Chicago. Makes me wonder how they got their license.

DinanX5 · #10 09-22-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kewl X5

The old saying with a manual tranny...."When you spin, both feet in; when in doubt, both feet out" (Both feet in meaning, pressing the brakes and clutch vs. if you fishtail or plow, then let go of the accelerator, brakes, and clutch and steer yourself out of trouble).

B-line - Question for you regarding this old adage, as you clearly have a lot of race experience...
I've taken a few driving classes, and have a rudimentary knowledge of the art of car control. However I don't get much "track time" to practice and hone the craft.
A few years ago, in my 328Ci (RWD, or course) I stupidly decided to power oversteer through a wet left-handed sweeping corner (NEVER a good idea on public roads!!

). I was a bit too aggressive, and the back end swung very hard and fast... as I counter steered, I lifted off the throttle completely. The result was a bigger swing the other way, and then a BIGGER swing back again... each swing was harder to control, until I finally started to reel things back in [being very careful not to "over-correct" my counter steering inputs], somehow avoiding the curb on my right all through the corner.
So my question is, would I have been better off by backing off the gas half way or so (rather than lifting entirely)? From what I've read since that day, backing off the throttle about half way is better at regaining some semblance of grip to the rear wheels than lifting off entirely...

Also, clearly, different cars require very different techniques to drive fast... I'm somewhat new to AWD; do you have any performance driving suggestions for the AWD X5 that may not be intuitive for some one used to RWD?

Thanks,