Auto Bailout, yea or nea?

[NC_X5_Guy]

Its a trip to keep seeing this in the news.....I laugh my arse off at it every single day and I hope they fail before we give them a bail-out. I hope they can't make it til Dec 15 and have to go under......cause its the only way they can dump all those pensions, dump those UAW contracts and get back to a reality company that does not give lifetime benefits for free and get rid of those high school drop outs on the assembly line making $40 an hour to install a headlight. I mean come on.......I don't mind a guy or girl making a living, but this takes the cake.

On the other hand......I did help GM this past month, I bought a new 2008 Chevrolet Avalanche. Its a nice vehicle with a ton of options, and with the employee pricing + rebates, and me needing a sorda of truck to keep from ruining my x-5 and other cars, it was a no brainer. I got $12K off of sticker. It put it in a decent affordable range, and even a nice vehicle to take trips on, it'll never replace the x5, but it rides good, has nice features, and gets about the same MPG as the 5......I am happy overall.

[motordavid]

That may be the mixed/divergent view post of the month...

Glad they didn't "fail" before you got the chance to buy your shiny
new truck.

By the bye, if they go off the edge, do you understand "who" covers
those pensions?

[X5rolls]

No bailout IMHO for GM.

Get a serious business plan together and keep high levels of transparancy on everything till taxpayers are paid back if any loans are provided.

1. Restructure is a must - financial, organization, product management
2. Change out of some execs - shameless or gutless, regardless, take em out
3. Re-negotiate with UAW - labor rates need to be aligned, tie bonus structure to company success and productivity
4. Establish a 5 year plan - Goals, profits, CAFE and or R&D execution for mileage breakthroughs, payback taxpayers

[NC_X5_Guy]

Originally Posted by motordavid

That may be the mixed/divergent view post of the month...

Glad they didn't "fail" before you got the chance to buy your shiny
new truck.

By the bye, if they go off the edge, do you understand "who" covers
those pensions?

Hey brother you can't spend it all.....as Biden said, you should feel patriotic to pay taxes.......I am just joking with that come-back. But honestly, do you think the government (us as taxpayers) will give them the plan GM did for retirement pensions......I doubt it very seriously. I bet the Government don't give them crap other than SSI and medicare, no more than they deserve at the ripe old age to get benefits. I can't help if GM promised them the boat, that was a private corp decision, if they go bankrupt, there goes their plans. I don't feel sorry for them at all.......if they have made the kinda money they made over the years and haven't invested for retirment outside of what GM offers......tough chit.

Killing those wages paid now to current workers will hopefully offset the cost enough to determine what can be done with those on the pension plans, it will for sure help.

x5rolls pretty much summed it up.

As far as what I buy, thats my decision, I made the loot to purchase it, made the loot to pay the taxes, made the loot to maintain it.............its GM in the crunch, if Ford or Dodge made something as nice for the price, I would have considered them, but since they didn't......I bought what fit my needs at the time. They make a decent vehicle, reguardless if they are in a crunch or not, they do have some nice vehicles. I like their trucks, suburban platforms, the vette.

[motordavid]

Originally Posted by NC_X5_Guy

Its a trip to keep seeing this in the news.....I laugh my arse off at it every single day and I hope they fail before we give them a bail-out. I hope they can't make it til Dec 15 and have to go under......cause its the only way they can dump all those pensions, ...

X5 Guy,
I was simply responding to your comments quoted above as to your hope
they failed, but you picked up a nice truck in the meantime...somewhat
disingenuous, but diff'n strokes.

No quibble with what anyone chooses to buy.

As for the GM Pension plan, it was reported today that it is in amazingly
good shape and well above water, for awhile anyway. My point was if
they do go under, the Fed Pension Guaranty prog. will be forced to pick
up a sizeable chunk of those current pensions in effect...

I have zero dawgs in the GM/Lil'3 struggle, other than the impact any of
their demises would have on the econ., with continuing pressure on the
Fed, the Treasury and more dough on top of more dough, as the dominoes
fell from 1 or, 2 big failings from the US car mfg'ers.

[StanF18]

NC_X5_Guy: This is OT, but I'm really curious: weren't you concerned as far as future maintenance when you got the Avalanche? I realize you got a sweet deal on the initial purchase, but whos' going to "back up" your product when GM goes belly up? If there's a warranty issue or safety issue and there's no mother-ship....what happens then? OK, maybe some 3rd party outfit will take over warranty issues and safety recalls as per federal regulations, but would they really have a vested interest in customer satisfaction?

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by StanF18

NC_X5_Guy: This is OT, but I'm really curious: weren't you concerned as far as future maintenance when you got the Avalanche? I realize you got a sweet deal on the initial purchase, but whos' going to "back up" your product when GM goes belly up? If there's a warranty issue or safety issue and there's no mother-ship....what happens then? OK, maybe some 3rd party outfit will take over warranty issues and safety recalls as per federal regulations, but would they really have a vested interest in customer satisfaction?

Yeah, what about resale values? Who wan't to buy a used car or truck from a manufacturer that has gone belly up?

[Wagner]

Again, why Chevrolet should split off from GM. It is a CHEVROLET truck, not a GM Avalanche

[X5rolls]

Within the product planning teams (as well as industry analysts) at GM they have the answers already to which brands, models, options etc. have historically sold when, where and how. They also have projections going forward.

1) This process appears to be broken - many have listed the issues with too many models, too many brands, too many dealers etc.

2) So many lost opportunities to turn the industry around. Hind sight is pretty good.

3. It's very disappointing that GM and the other US Auto Brands squandered time during the crisis. To miss the great opportunity to come to Congress and to the American public through TV shows no business acumen.

4. With the historic sales (global) data, the manufacturing, material and supplier costs basic analysis can be used to create 2-3 credible go forward scenarios.

5. The bottom line:

- What is the right product mix?

- How can they become more fuel efficient?

- How can costs be driven down while few are being made?

- Unfortunately the big 3 can't seem to get this done by themselves. - Can they produce some real leadership to stand up and lead?

Where in the world is the board of directors in this whole mess. They are sleeping and should be removed, they too have no business acumen.

Ok, I fell better now.

[NC_X5_Guy]

I don't know if you guys have seen the new hybrid tahoe, I have a friend here that has one and he just did a trip yesterday on it to Silver Spring, Md. Filled it up before he left and filled it up in Md......got an amazing 24 MPG on a full sized SUV, loaded with 4 adults and 2 kids, not bad for this vehicle, but a bit much to call it a hybrid.

Chevrolet can do some good vehicles, good design, good quality, awesome sports cars. I follow sports cars pretty hard, especially the vette. Did you know there are some guys out there with new vettes and a tune getting close to 30 MPG with them??? Change the tune, right back to performance, you can't beat that! They just canned the new zr1 vette until further notice, produced 254 of them and I'd love to have one, but that is probably going to be like buying the bank.

The silverado, suburban, and vette platforms are awesome vehicles from chevy and I'd hate to see them go out.......but its probably going to be the only way they can restructure and get to a point they can turn a profit operating.