First, they said no to MLK Day... Now this.

[Krimson X]

FOXNews.com - Arizona Governor Signs Controversial Immigration Enforcement Bill

This law violates all kinds of probable cause and reasonable suspicion safeguards. As one GOP congressman from Arizona said.... "It must be the shoes."

[nom3rcy]

The sweeping measure will make it a crime under state law to be in the country illegally. It will also require local police officers to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are in the country illegally.

So the first part is a no brainer - illegal aliens are illegal after all...

And to question someone on their status? How is that a problem for anyone but the illegal aliens?

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by nom3rcy

So the first part is a no brainer - illegal aliens are illegal after all...

And to question someone on their status? How is that a problem for anyone but the illegal aliens?

It's a problem if everytime I go to the store, a cop stops me to check my status. This law will not only impact illegal aliens, but American citizens who will be systematically and routinely stopped because they "look" like an illegal immigrant.

When you throw out a big net (like this law does), you are going to catch more than just fish.

[DWill]

Originally Posted by Krimson X

It's a problem if everytime I go to the store, a cop stops me to check my status. This law will not only impact illegal aliens, but American citizens who will be systematically and routinely stopped because they "look" like an illegal immigrant.

When you throw out a big net (like this law does), you are going to catch more than just fish.

Except that a cop can stop you and ask for ID now anyway. I know they're supposed to have "cause" but that can be just about anything.

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by DWill

Except that a cop can stop you and ask for ID now anyway. I know they're supposed to have "cause" but that can be just about anything.

Not without probable cause. Read Terry v. Ohio and the 4th Amendment.

[nom3rcy]

If you read the bill how could you make statements like this:

Originally Posted by Krimson X

It's a problem if everytime I go to the store, a cop stops me to check my status. This law will not only impact illegal aliens, but American citizens who will be systematically and routinely stopped because they "look" like an illegal immigrant.

When the bill clearly states that:

Originally Posted by AZ SB1070

20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

In other words, lawful contact must be made BEFORE they can question immigration status, and they also must establish reasonable suspicion that the person may be here illegally before questioning them.

You aren't going to be stopped going into the store. If they stopped everyone who looked like an illegal immigrant they wouldn't have time to do anything else. They simply don't have the manpower to do that so they work smarter than that. They follow guidleines put in place to actually vet illegals, not harass real citizens. Do you think they want to waste your time or theirs for no reason at all? Of course not!

It absolutely boggles my mind that people can be against this for any other reason than wanting the borders to be open.

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by nom3rcy

If you read the bill how could you make statements like this:



When the bill clearly states that:



In other words, lawful contact must be made BEFORE they can question immigration status, and they also must establish reasonable suspicion that the person may be here illegally before questioning them.

You aren't going to be stopped going into the store. If they stopped everyone who looked like an illegal immigrant they wouldn't have time to do anything else. They simply don't have the manpower to do that so they work smarter than that. They follow guidleines put in place to actually vet illegals, not harass real citizens. Do you think they want to waste your time or theirs for no reason at all? Of course not!

It absolutely boggles my mind that people can be against this for any other reason than wanting the borders to be open.

I am all for eliminating illegal immigration. I am not for amnesty for those who are here illegally. My concern is that citizens and legal immigrants will be snagged in the Dragnet. But I have a few questions for you:

1. What is lawful contact?
2. Does it require probable cause?
3. What reasonable suspicion would cause an officer to think that criminal activity is afoot? Five mexicans deep in a Buick Riveria...is that suspicious enough?
4. What prevents officers from making pretextual stops?
5. What would lead an officer to believe that someone is an illegal alien?
6. How do you only vet illegals if there are no particular discernable characteristics that allow you to tell the difference between an illegal alien and one who is here legally? (What I hope you didn't mean is that the law is put in place to vet mexicans, not to harass real citizens). You cannot.

Ps. What are "real" citizens?

[nom3rcy]

It isn't throwing out a net though, it is a legitimate question. Some of the issues we are facing as a result of the growing illegal population are a serious concern for this country, and something should be done about it.

By disagreeing with this law, you are essentially saying that we should not be able to ask someone their immigration status? This would essentially grant them amnesty.

I'm sorry but I don't think a "Don't ask don't tell" policy works well for people who don't fight for this country.

[Naz24]

Originally Posted by nom3rcy

It isn't throwing out a net though, it is a legitimate question. Some of the issues we are facing as a result of the growing illegal population are a serious concern for this country, and something should be done about it.

By disagreeing with this law, you are essentially saying that we should not be able to ask someone their immigration status? This would essentially grant them amnesty.

I'm sorry but I don't think a "Don't ask don't tell" policy works well for people who don't fight for this country.

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by nom3rcy

It isn't throwing out a net though, it is a legitimate question. Some of the issues we are facing as a result of the growing illegal population are a serious concern for this country, and something should be done about it.

By disagreeing with this law, you are essentially saying that we should not be able to ask someone their immigration status? This would essentially grant them amnesty.

I'm sorry but I don't think a "Don't ask don't tell" policy works well for people who don't fight for this country.

Don't ask don't tell? What does that have to do with it? I could give a rats ass about an illegal immigrant (hispanic or otherwise). This is about American citizens being free from unreasonable search and seizure. If there is a way that the police can distinguish illegal aliens from American citizens, I would support the law. However, this law sanctions the law enforcement to profile based on race (more specifically hispanics), and some good tax paying citizens will undoubtely get caught in the fray.

I do not think this law will survive Constitutional scrutiny.... it violates the 4th Amendment. Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See: Terry v. Ohio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and: Probable cause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia