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E30 M3's- DD
I'm contemplating selling the Prelude at the end of this year, or next summer. Few different options: replace with 97-98 Integra Type R or 2000-2001 S4, or keep the lude and get a bike.
Or get an E30 M3. There is so much stigma around that car, that it is insanely horrible to own and maintain. Is it that unreliable, or are parts that insanely expensive? I looked through some parts catalogs, and some parts seem even cheaper than Honda parts while others are ridiculous. The valvetrain, pistons and some body parts are criminally expensive. At the end of the day, these are mechanincal parts that don't randomly fail when maintained properly as a whole. I'd appreciate any insight regarding daily driving this car. It's within my budget (10-15k) and is one of the cars I revere tremendously (much much more than the E36 and E46). It's funny that the E30 M3 is just as in-expensive as the E36 model. |
for the e30 M3, you are talking about a very 16-18 year OLD car. Don't get me wrong, it drives incredible BUT, as you age, more and more things tend to break. Just because parts in a catalog does not mean that they are available. IMO, it's going to be very expensive to maintain. I would talk to PersonaNonGrata as he has had one.
as for the 01 S4's fairly bulletproof cars. Depending on how hard it's driven, there will be drivetrain wear. Turbo's and bypass valves will break a lot and they do get pricey if you're not cooled down properly. Maintenance is also pricey for an out of warranty which is the case for a lot of them. Also window regulators suck on that thing. They break more than the X5's. Forget the type R. POS... my question: how many miles do you drive a year. Have you considered leasing a new car. 10-15K is a pretty bad budget and are you ready for a maintenance bill? Why throw cash away??? Quote:
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Good info. Thanks.
Why is 10-15k a bad budget? That's what these cars cost. I'm in school and don't need a vehicle that's anything more. Paying cash for whatever this will be, and it's not like I'm blowing my all the savings on the car. Maintenance isn't a biggie as long as it isn't ridiculous. Maintenance in terms doesn't matter since I've been able to do everything with relative ease with the right tools. More interested in what parts cost. Don't plan on spending more than 15-20k cash on a car before I own the roof over my head. Renting in most cases is for losers. There's nothing worth leasing, and that is throwing money away. All the new Honda's suck. I don't want to drive a new BMW at this age, or deal with the payments. In the end, insurance will be a factor to reckon with as well. Quote:
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you have a lot to learn grasshopper. There are cases where it will be beneficial for you to lease. Cars are depreciating assets by nature. Doesn't matter if it's used or not. Why not share that depreciation with somebody else and possibly come out on top if you have a good money factor and decent residual. It's all simple math and you're not doing it... I suggest you open your eyes especially if you are considering dumping a sizeable amount of cash on transportation. So let me guess, you're willing dump 15K cash on the spot rather than making $300 a months. Tell me how many months is it going to take you to get to $15K? oh btw, do you plan to keep the car over 3 years??? chances are no... in that case, you just dumped a bunch of cash and will lose it when you resell it... BTW, buying used car = paying taxes on the entire amount up front. Leasing, you pay the tax on the lease pmt per month.
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I realize all of that. You're assuming I'm going to find a new car that I think is worth leasing and driving (and I can afford), and then that the lease will work out such that the depreciation will be greater than what i would have paid over the course of the lease. Plus, how much do you think an E30 M3 or an ITR is going to depreciate? The market value for a clean 97 ITR is ~$15k, and that's not getting any lower. Similar situation with the M3.
The only advantage I see with leasing most of the time is the broken-up tax benefit. Cars depreciate less as they get older, esp these. If I sell down the road, I'll get a good chunk of the money back. Can't same the same at the end of the lease. Not being arrogant, just rationalizing things from a different angle. :) |
good luck finding an ITR!
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you're assuming that somebody's going to want the car after you're done with it. The car's value is what somebody if anybody is willing to buy it at a certain price. Doesn't always work that way especially with something 10 or 20 years old... type r ain't no classic.. and did I mention it's slow...
why not pay a little more and find a used STI or Evo? Quote:
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I used to have a Honda which I did not lease. I owned for 5 years and it ended up costing more than lease. Sometime lease does make sense.
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I have to agree with others... Lease and invest the rest of the money (or pay off bills). Hell, try swapalease.com or leasetrader.com and get a "new" car every year.
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You can lease the new 3er for under 300/mth. just throwing that out there.
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I'd say keep the prelude.
While the E30 M3 is easily at your price range, I think you'll find out that dollar spent on maintaining this will quickly add up. If you get it bone stock(which is rare), you will find yourself replacing a ton of 20 yr old parts. If you get it modified, you will find yourself putting a puzzle together and replacing a ton more parts. Parts for the E30 are harder to find and you will find yourself custom fabricating some things. Rusted panels, busted hoses/pipings, radiator, and some other stuff not listed on the catalog just to name a few that can cost you. Having downtimes waiting for parts isn't exactly a defintion of a reliable daily. You'll find that the nicest E30 M3s aren't cheap and cheap E30 M3s aren't that nice. Also whatever you put in the car doesnt' mean it'll add value. I don't think the price stops at buying the car, maintaining may even double that. By that time, you would've wished you you were paying $300 a month for a lease and not trying to think what's next to replace on the car. E30 M3s are great cars but they are more of a project car. People warn you about daily driving them for a reason;) . The type-R isn't much of an upgrade to the prelude and are real hard to find in mint condition. I hear issues with the turbos on the S4 and they are not cheap to maintain either. If the prelude isn't giving you problems, keep it and save your money for a house dp instead. |
Great advice from everyone. Thanks!
iop9000- You won't find many ITR's on autotrader or cars.com. Most of the ones for sale are in the forums like honda-tech and itrca. SANguru- If ITR isn't a classic, why is it holding its value so well? Who cares if it isn't a sub-6sec 0-60 car. It's fast at the track, the best fwd vehicle ever made and one of the best overall. Every guy in chicago and his grandmother drive an Evo or Sti. Sti is garbage..mediocre handling and zero feedback, the boxer engine sounds nice though. The Evo is a fantastic car, but it still is like the E46 M3. Generic performance. LeMans- I'm not saying leasing is always bad. Leasing would most likely involve me driving a newer Honda, none of which are that appealing. rickp- A lot of it is invested for the big dp in the future, this is just having fun. I'll consider leasing, but the number one factor that affects this, is what vehicles are in the new market. Wagner- New 3er for under 300 a month is cool, but it'd be the wrong 3 and with who knows how much down. I don't want to drive a new BMW. I can do that later. Mister2- You and Josh bring up very valid (and real) points about the E30 M3. I think all of what you said is probably true. Perhaps, I can wait a little while to own one and not have it be my dd. Prelude handles very very well, esp because mine is an SH, but is still very different from an ITR. The ITR is superlight (relatively) without all the extra crap automakers put in cars, and has that really raw and direct feel. It's performance numbers reflect it. However, it is stolen more than anyone's buisness, and that is the main problem with owning one. I bought the Prelude $2.5k under marketvalue since the interior needed some tlc and the engine needs a bottom end rebuild. That's only $500 in parts/machining costs though; labor is just the fun I have working on my car. So perhaps, it'd be wise to keep it. A used bike would be a lot lot cheaper than any of these car options, and potentially more fun! Thanks for the advice guys! You've given me a lot of good ideas to think about. :thumbup: |
I'll throw in my $0.02 on the E30 M3. I had a very low mileage '88 and it was a blast to drive but it was old no matter how you slice it. It was not an everday driver and I cannot imagine using one as such, although many people do. Mine was bone stock and yes, it did need part refreshed just from age. That S14 motor is wonderful but it takes a knowledgeable mechanic to work on it. Boy does it like to rev and the throttle response was instantaneous! Anyway, it is a super car but I would not recommend one as a sole vehicle and you do have to be prepared for bigger maintenance bills.
As someone else posted, good ones are pricey and the cheap ones are usually very rough. Non-modded ones are quite rare too. I would love another one that is in museum shape but wouldn't we all? I think the best person to ask about them is inlacal. He has/had two of them and one that was absolutely cherry. I've seen them in person at some BMWCCA stuff years ago. He's the expert on the E30 M3 for sure. I think it might be a good idea to lease an E90/E92 328 with very few options. There have been some great lease deals on them and BMW residuals are very solid so you won't wind up owing unless you go over mileage. I leased my E90, my first lease. I went nuts and optioned it up too much though. Get one with ZSP and that's about it. :thumbup: |
LOL.. sounds like you have not driven a evo or STI. BTW, FWD = wrong wheel drive... no matter how you dice it, it's a poor alternative... It's also means that you have not experienced the joys of RWD...
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Lmao, when MT tested the ITR, it was faster through the slalom than every car they had ever tested except the Viper GTS, F355 and 911T.. wrong wheel drive my ass. I also recall it dominating the WC Series for a few seasons. |
My .02...I owned an '89 E30 M3 (Euro delivery) for 11 years, talk about bullet proof engines the S14 is one of the best engines EVER built period. The mods are endless, if you can spend less than 15k I would do it. There are fewer and fewer E30s every year they are becoming very rare considering the numbers destroyed every year on (street and track). I have driven many sports cars old and new and it is still one of the best cars I have ever driven.
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BTW check out my X5 member album for pics of my old E30:
http://www.xoutpost.com/gallery/categ...ubcat2665.html |
Beautiful car.
http://xoutpost.com/gallery/files/2/6/6/5/108_0877.JPG |
Ahh! You're killin me. Last night, heading home there was one next to me at a stoplight. Looked perfect, sounded perfect.. it's one of those flawless cars, like the NSX. But I will/should wait till I can afford not to DD it. Thanks for the pics, that's a beautiful car. A Euro Delivery of that car must have been nothing short of a dream.
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1) I have yet to see you track anything.
2) STI more tuneable front to rear bias which is not available in US EVO's. 3) compared to what??? slaloms are not true tests. 4) you're talking about a daily driver... 5) It did not dominate the WC series. Plenty of other cars were faster than the realtime racing guys... It was btw a stupid series with questionable drivers. If these guys were any good, they wouldn't be driving that series. I would just stfu... coming from a fool who only has real prelude experience, you're in no position to talk... Quote:
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SAN,
Your constant rude comments are getting VERY old. Be a man, edit your post, and leave this thread alone if you are going to be disrespectful. Thanks |
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