UPDATE (please read) my e46 m3 is a lemon?! what do you think?!
 

So the car has about 65K miles, still under extended BMW warranty (and so therefore still protected by lemon law).

So what do you guys think?

In the past 12 months:

* 33+ days in shop

* 5x for faulty trunk lid

* 4x for front alignment issues

* 3x for (a) faulty right catalytic converter; (b) faulty o2 sensor; (c) faulty replaced o2 sensor; (d) swaped (replaced?) injectors

* 2x alternator problems and filure

* 2x stereo/nav unit

* and bunches of other things

ohyeah: and today, a horrible shuddering/low frequency rumble/grinding noise from the rear of the car while engaging 1st or 2nd gear from a stop. i thought i blew the diff or the drive shaft was about to punch through teh floor lol! But i was able to still drive it to BMW San Diego so ...... who knows?! And the problem had greatly reduced by the time i got it there.

shall i keep going? =)

That's a lot of problems, but the unfortunate truth is that no lawyer is going to take on a car with 65k miles. Try to get all the issues sorted out while under warranty, or just sell it and look for another one.

OK. You win. And boy, am I glad my '03 X5 doesn't have any of those problems. Yet... LOL!

Dave

Btw, is this the only service dept it's been to since you've owned it. If so, might be a crappy dealer.

but lemon law applies to used vehicles AS LONG as under some manufactuer's warranty, including extended warranty.

and yes, pretty much only bmw of san diego

Lemon lawyers don't charge for consult. See what they say.

agreed. and i have. they're asking for my paperwork which i'm in the process of getting to them.

ah dude! I remember when you got this car, so excited and all. Now it's giving you problems? Oh well.....:(

lol hey what's up man. dude. been nothing BUT problems i'm afraid :(

ok so here's an update: lawyer now has all paperwork, he sounds fairly confident, but he'll get back to me soon. he says they rarely have issues with BMW, but the few times that they have, bmw usually cooperates right away.

but check this out: i talked to bmw san diego re: the most recent problem -- the shuddering in the drivetrain -- and they say it's caused because the diff fluid was either (a) incorrectly changed (wrong fluid) or (b) never changed during the Inspection 2 Service which i had done last summer at BMW Mountain View. So I call BMW MV and they're like -- Inspection 2 Service? We don't do dff fluid changes for that! I'm like, um, yeah you do. Try again.

Can you BELIEVE this?! The point is, BECAUSE the fluid should have been changed then, BMW of SD (understandably) say that they will not pay for it again, but they also agree that *I* certainly should not pay for it either.

So we're pressing BMW MV now.

how crazy is this crap.

in all seriousness, everyone, between the drama towards the end of my x5's life last year, and the hell of this m3, coupled with all this service drama, bmw have really manged to alienate me. Seeing the bmw badge literally puts a sour taste in my mouth.

assuming i get enough cash from this lemon law thing, i'm all over a benz of some kind. preferably 2006 E55 or something. man i'm disappointed.

UPDATE: now this is getting interesting. So now BMW of Mountain View have changed their story. They say that (a) they certainly DID change the fluid after all; and (b) they CERTAINLY put in the correct fluid.

But then it turns out that a TSB was issued which basically says even if correct fluid is used, the problems i'm having can STILL occur once in a while.

So I say: great, so the TSB means any BMW dealership can repair the car for me under the terms of this TSB.

They say: WRONG. TSBs only apply to cars under NEW CAR warranty and NOT under EXTENDED warranty.

WTF?!

So basically: UNLESS we can somehow PROVE that they put the WRONG fluid in -- and how do we do that?! I'm having the invoice with part number faxed today, but even that doesn't PROVE what's ACTUALLY in the diff -- then i don't see how i can get out from under this $230 fluid flush and replacement.

This is RETARDED.

Honestly guys, BMW have disappointed me so much during all this fiasco with my m3 -- not to mention the drama i had with my x5 before the m -- that i almost get sick when i see a bmw badge now :(

As soon as i dump my car, it's benz from here on out.

ok i dunno why that posted twice. can't delete either. sorry

What exactly is their problem. The car is under a BMW warranty, and regardless of what the problem is, they're liable since they've performed (or lack thereof) all the work. No fluid change or wrong fluid, whateva..they at least owe you a new diff since you've got the warranty.

Easy to find out what exactly happend. Take a sample of the fluid in the diff right now, and also send a reference sample (a new bottle of bmw diff fluid) to be analyzed. It won't cost you more than $50, and it'll give you a definitive answer to the age/condition of the fluid, and whether they used the right one in case they did change it.

These guys are a pretty big and popular lab. I'd give them the headsup of what's going on before you send it in, so that they pay attention to what's important to you: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

oh wow. so that really all there is to it, huh? because THEY mentioned I could get it analyzed but in a totally sarcastic tone implying there was no practicable way to do so! I didn't realize it was so easy to do.

Awesome, thank you, i'll tend to this right away!

And as for your suggestions re: being covered by warranty, i agree!

HOWEVER: their logic is this. They say, the diff fluid is something which is to be changed ONLY during Inspection II Service. Otherwise, warranty doesn't cover it.

No xpert here, and admittedly not a Stlr fan...
but, from your story the diff fluid they "didn't change" and
then "did change" may or may not be connected to your
glitch. But, a change of diff fluid, done properly, should
certainly show some effect, if damage isn't severe, thus far.
(I don't really know of an 'improper' fluid having that kind of
dramatic effect that quickly, but WTFDIK.)

Back at the ranch, that stlr is tossing you with his "not covered
bs", as dlr done parts and services are warranted as a separate issue
whether it was done at mile 10 or mile 110,000, imo.

Vig's rec on the Blackstone lab analysis is a good one, though not
handy to do or, quick to hear the results...but, maybe worth it.

Sounds like the dlr wants you to go away. Not a lawsuit fan, but
I would fire up my barrister on this one.
Good Luck,
mD

What logic is there in that. There are only three posibilities, since they performed Inspection II (and all other service).

1. Wrong fluid
2. Fluid not changed
3. Diff failure unrelated to fluid

The warranty covers all three of those possibilities.

:iagree:

mD, recovering some diff fluid involves a ratchet, socket and two bolts on the diff. It should be a 5min affair for any mechanic. I don't have first-hand experience of how long it takes to receive a report once the sample is submitted, but I can't imagine it being more than a week or so considering how popular their services are. That info is only a phone call away. So totally, we're still not exceeding more 10min worth of work. :)

Vig, thanks for the DIY, :rofl: ...I've done a few diffs and trans. :nanana:
I just meant it was another hoop for crosvs to jump through
in the detective process, to force the lazyazz stlr to either:
admit a mistake, fix a broken diff under warr., do some good will,
etc., some combo of the above.

I need you to roll by the Mtn house for a few days this late April
for an extra pair of hands on my oil/trans/brakefluid changes on
3 M'cycles, the Vette, the X and the Fridge. I have the tools, so
you can just slide through airport security. :rofl:

Yeah, that's what i told them. they said, NO. what am i supPOSED to say?!

but yes, i'll be updating my lawyer -- who's currently working on the lemon issue -- with this info too.

This is going from bad, to worse, to F-ing ridiculous. :(

:rofl: heheheh :)

For all M3's they required a 1500 mile service in which all fluids were drained and replaced, diff/trans/oil. Packing liquid weights were apparently heavier to save parts during break in periods.

Maybe this wasn't done with yours. I know when I took my M3 to Tate BMW in MD, they had no idea it required 1500 mile service.


IMO, there is no way it will get lemon protection with 33 out of 365 days in the shop. I had a friend with his Bimmer in the shop for 3 out of 8 months and it wasn't considered a lemon. Ask Sanguru about his M5 experience, now that was a lemon.

but i pulled up the statute: 30+ days = lemon law buyback. oh well i will hear from my lawyer soon.

UDPATE!!

Ok so check THIS out: BMW of San Diego's service manager just said that

(a) they will fix the diff for free *AND* give me a check for $1,300.

(b) He also says he talked to BMW NA and that the car definitely will not qualify for a lemon.

Well no kidding, of course he'd say that. My thoughts? He's just trying to buy me off and send me away with that pathetic little $1,300 bribe.

Meanwhile, still awaiting response from lawyer.

Seeems like the pendulum of justice is swinging in your favor...seems like someone f'd up or its a 'goodwill' intervention from BMWNA.

Interesting to see what your attorney says....in my experience when you get 'em on the run means its time to really start squeezing.

Good luck

my thoughts exactly. we'll see what happens.

but man cann you imagine a worse time for this? i'm in my last semester of law school. i can't be dealing with this crap right now.

i just want this taken care of. NOW. ugh.

Dude, not only are you not the original owner, the car is not under factory warranty. In fact, well past it. I don't see ANY way BMW is going to agree to take it back. If your time is that valuable, take the free $1300 and unload the car at your MB dealer.

i appreciate your point. however, under california law, the requirements are different: as long as the car is under SOME manufacturer's warranty -- including extended warranty, then that's sufficient.

hence my still fighting it.

How can a lwayer take on this case when you are clearly past CA lemon law? I'm almost certain he is seeking relief under the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act which includes the lemon law but they have different limitations.

IMO, you'd be better off having them repair the thing over and over. The reasonable allowance for a vehicle having 65k on the clock is going to wipe out any money you'll get back.