20" Wheels = Shaky Steering??
 

My 2nd post on these 20" staggered wheels I apologize..I just got these intalled today with the toyo tires, and also these wheels are replica's not genuine from a company called AFS wheels with very good reputation from what I hear

Anyways I'm not sure if it's normal but during slow speeds the steering wheel becomes very noticeably shaky back and forth..not out of control but just ever so slightly left and right real fast..I checked the wheels and they don't seem to be out of round but it's hard to really say...for about 20-30 miles on the freeway at speeds of 5-20 mph it was shaky the whole way and then when i had some freedom it went away but came back slightly every once in awhile...any suggestions would greatly be appreciated..paid so much and now these issues arise =(

Do you follow all of the steps in the replica buyer's guide? - http://www.xoutpost.com/articles.php?...ticle&artid=93

make sure you get a good shop to balance those wheels. I had a pro shop with hunter alignment system to do the install, it took them 2 tries to get it right!
i got mine from truckaccessories and there is no shakes at all.

I got the wheels balanced and mounted at a discounttire store, i suppose i should call them up

yes. ask them to rebalance.

I think Discount Tire/America's Tire calls their machine the "Road Force" balancing. That basically balances the wheels & tires as if they are under load.

Hunter makes the primo alignment & balance machine, takes pics of each wheel, calculates all variables precisely via the 'puter. I'd recommend anyone getting an alignment find a shop with a Hunter machine.

JV

I don't think wheel balancing is rocket science. Have discount tire rebalance your wheels, if that doesn't work, have them to spin the rims without the tires on them. You can look and see if the wheel is out of round or bent. This is the type of situation that keeps me away from replica wheels.........Phil

Wheel is likely bent...
 

You had your wheels mounted and balanced by professionals, reputable ones at that. This happens all the time during transport of wheels, and they get bent somewhere in transit. It happened to one of my Breytons and I found a local place to repair it and worked out the bill will the seller. They repaired the wheel re-mounted and re-balanced and it was about 70.00. Chump change to the seller as the wheels approach 1000.00 each. I think that going through balancing again would be wasting some good driving time :tsk:

Did you install the hub centric rings? If they didnt come with your wheel, you'll need the 72.56 mm --> 74.1 mm for the x5. They come in aluminum or plastic.

For more details: http://www.1010tires.com/hubrings.asp

I did figure it out! I picked up hub rings from the shop I purchased it from..when I called them to let them aware of the problem they said "oh this is quite a common problem with the replica X5 wheels we sell, you'll definitely need the hub rings which will resolve this problem!" - .. I was like wtf why didn't you bring this to my attention in the first place...I took it back and no more shaky steering
HOWEVER when I am trying to brake on some roads the steering wheels goes crazy..it this normal? The roads I'm talking about are a bit bumpy or uneven but the way it shakes the steering seems very dangerous

Yes. Slight pull and/or wander on uneven roads are common with wide low profile tires. These wheels behave differently then your stock, give it a week and you wont notice the difference as much.

Also, check your tire pressure when the tires are cold to make sure its properly inflated. Some folks follow factory spec. 32 front - 39 back; I prefer 35 all around...to each their own.

Thanks for the advice! :thumbup:

More Wheels Questions
 

Not to beat a dead horse, but I am thoroughly confused here. The 'guide to purchasing replica wheels' post says to order them without rubber. Some members have had success ordering wheels with the tires already balanced (which is what I would prefer to do). There is a reply that references the hubcentric rings too. I talked to the AFS Wheel guys in CA. They can get me a set of staggered 20's with Proxes mounted, balanced, and shipped for $2137. My biggest concern, of course, is the prospect of shipping wheels 1200 miles to and fro to resolve a problem.

Any further insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

That's the million-dollar question.

I've been working with my vendor for 9 weeks now to get satisfactory resolution with some defective rims I was shipped back in June and although I am slowly making progress toward having a working set - honestly the time and effort in getting various aftermarket wheels balanced, dismounted, remounted, rebalanced, return shipped etc has been a royal pain in the aZZ.

Timeline:
Early June - first set of chinese-made (SAW) staggered chrome replica 20"s from Truck Accessory Outlet in Corona CA
Late June - After 3rd balancing of fronts, rims determined to have out-of-round manufacturing defect, possibly rears too
July - 2nd set of front rims shipped (non-SAW from THE WHEEL GROUP by mistake). Horrible quality, didn't even mount them
Early August - 3rd set of front rims shipped (SAW). Mounting, balancing and ride of fronts seem acceptable.
Late August - work on getting rear tires/rims remounted balanced and/or replaced

I've traced some of the problems with the replicas to inconsistencies in manufacturing quality. The main center hole of the wheel is cut in the correct location and this is what your tire center will use when balancing the rims to 0. However, as I've discovered - many wheels have their 5 lug holes (which are cut as a group when the wheel is manufactured) cut slightly off-center by .5mm to 2mm. The distance between the holes is correct and thats why the wheel will mount properly, but the fact that (as a group) they are slightly off-center creates various degrees of perceivable "bounce" regardless of how well the wheel is weight balanced (for example, imagine if your rims were egg-shaped - even if they were perfectly weight-balanced they would still wobble up and down as you drove down the road). Now look at an OEM rim from BMW, the wheel cuts are absolutely perfect - even on the cheapest spare tire the 5 lug holes and the center holes are all equi-distant from true center.

Despite the wheel issues, I've had no problems with the Toyo Proxies.

Though I understand not everyone has had the same experience I have had with their replica purchases....based on these last 3 months here would be my personal recommendations:

1. Firstly if someone can afford it - I would recommend they purchase OEM rims directly from BMW (or Crevier, Pacific etc). The fit and finish will be outstanding and both the quality and your pride of ownership will be high. You will avoid many headaches and hassles though be (much) lighter in the pocketbook.

2. If you do get replica wheels, I recommend you either purchase them separately from the tires (get those locally) or have them shipped UNMOUNTED if you order them with tires from the same company. Not only will this give you an opportunity to check out the fit and finish of the rim but by having them spun alone you will get a chance to ensure you have a quality rim that is free from defects in workmanship. Most vendors don't balance worth crap anyway, so having a local shop mount and balance them gives you someone to go back to if you're not satisfied with the quality of the ride. Also, I think you would be much more likely to get a better rim initially from the vendor if he doesn't have the option of blaming some other object for your troubles (like the tire manufacturer...or the "new guy he just hired" to do the balancing at his shop...or the FedEx guys for dropping the package during shipping etc, etc.)

3. When you do have your wheels balanced, use a quality DYNAMIC balancer (like the Hunter 9700 series) and have weights placed on BOTH inside planes of the wheel, not just the inner-most rim like many aftermarket vendors do to save time.

4. Pay with a credit card that will standing behind you in case you have to put the credit-card charge in dispute.

5. Document every phone call, fax and email between yourself and the vendor if problems arise.

6. Follow the other suggestions in the "replica wheels buyers guide" article online

Good luck!

Thanks for the in-depth response, Wolf! :thumbup: I just picked up my 01 4.4 (topaz blue w/blk, sport, premium, 44k mi.) the other day. This board has been very helpful to me, as I have been a guest for the past few weeks.

I have a local guy looking into the prices on some Proxes for me. I will have him mount them up and hope for the best.

Thanks for the info, Wolf. I dont see hubcentric rings mentioned in your post, and this thread is the first mention I've seen of them. Are they necessary for some replica wheels for the reasons you mentioned?

From what I gathered at various places today, the answer is 'sometimes'. It sounds like they help compensate in certain situations. My guy at the tire place who's going to do the mount/balance said he'll see what they (wheels) look like when they get here. I just ordered some from Lakeshore Wheel and Tire in MI (ebay) for $975 shipped. Jason at LWT said that they don't need hubs, so we'll see. He also told me that each wheel they ship is spun-out previous to delivery. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this deal!

I have had aftermarket wheels in the past on Mercedes that have required hub-centric rings, but I did not use them when mounting my 4.6i replicas, as the vendor said repeatedly that they were not needed. Which is curious because the center holes on each of my replicas (from 2 different manufacturers) were cut at 72.6mm and those who have purchased wheels from AFS apparently have used 72.56 (72.6) to 74.1 reducer rings to get a more centered fit on the X5.

Honestly, with some of my rims already being off-center by .5mm to 2mm due to poor quality control, I can't see ring reduction helping much but they're pretty cheap so perhaps its worth a try regardless.

As a follow up for future readers - I did eventually try the metal version of the 74.1mm to 72.56mm hub rings from http://www.1010tires.com/hubrings.asp as MC suggested earlier in this thread and they made an ABSOLUTELY DRAMATIC difference in the quality of the ride.

In my situation, the chinese aftermarket manufacturer (surprise) labeled their rims as being 72.56mm on the shipping container but manufactured them to 74.1mm probably to fit a wider-variety of BMW's that also use the 120mm bolt pattern.

If your 20" aftermarket wheels just wont ride correctly, get a digital caliper and measure the diameter of the hole to ensure a precision 72.56mm opening. If its larger, get the appropriate rings to compensate for the difference otherwise your new rims will NEVER ride correctly regardless of how many times you have them rebalanced. :banghead:

This is why I'd never put replica rims on my X5. Out of round, wrong hub size, weaker materials, poor finish, poor customer support, no center caps, etc. I contacted AFS three times with a simple question (do your style 87 rims need hub rings) and they never answered my emails. The more I read about replica rims, the easier it was to make up my mind - NO WAY!

I bought my Style 87 20" replica AFS wheels and Toyo tires from ebay seller cleanin_out_the_garage back in April. They came mounted and balanced with the plastic hubcentric rings. Luckily, I have had zero issues with them-they arrived in perfect condition and are absolutely vibration free. I now have about 6k miles on them and the wheels still look brand new with no finish issues.

I am sure there are those that have had issues, but luckily mine have been great.

I too have had a bad experience with my replicas so far. Mine are WAC style 177 staggered.

Here is my original post.

Since then I have had steering wheel vibration and finish issues (clear coat peeling off, paint scratches off easily). I'll post my pics of this later.

I think my vibration is because I don't have the 72.6mm->74.1mm hubcentric rings. I am ordering a set of aluminum ones from Tire Rack. The rims are coming off the car anway since i am going to dremel/sand down my jagged inside spoke edges and then send them off for sandblasting and powder coating (gunmetal woo hoo!).

I will then get them re-mounted and balanced at a local pro shop with a Hunter GSP9700 balancer. Supposedly this is the best technology out there. They also do some sort of run off test which will give you optimum tire wear and handling.

Lastly I am going to get a full alignment done. I expect a smooth ride after this. Should have it all done in a week or so, I'll post my results along with pics then.

Thanks everyone for the info, I had no clue about the rings. No one ever mentioned anything about it to me.

On second thought, it looks like my Style 177 rims are supposedly 72.56mm center bore already!?

I think i am going to measure them. I don't trust WAC. If this is correct than either one or more of the rims are out of round, or weren't balanced properly.

This sucks... don't buy replicas.

I bought a set of AFS wheels and tires. AFS did a wonderful job mounting and balancing the tires. No problems. They are perfect!!!

Madforce - Amazing, I had a completely different experience with AFS. I emailed multile times and each time received a prompt response. I would definitely buy AFS again.....

Yes we350z, do measure by all means. If you're not right on 72.56mm then you'll definitely need the hub rings. Hunter 9700 series is great by the way...good luck!:thumbup:

If anyone is reading this, I would not suggest getting replicas even though the ones I have are headache free. This is also a great thread.

It sounds like they are all hit or miss. I have heard good things and bad things about all of the companies now.

Just got off the phone with a local professional tire shop which I setup an appointment with next Saturday. They said that the likelihood that the wheels are either out of round, or machined improperly (center bore, lug holes) is not very high even with replicas. Anything is possible, but he said that one would experience a costant wobble or hard shaking at pretty much all speeds instead of intermittent vibration. He went on to say that it is likely to be one or more of the following factors:

1) Wheels are not hubcentric to the hub. The wheel centerbore supposed to be 72.56mm, so either it is mis-stated or was not accurately machined. if its 74.1mm+ rings can be used. This can be determined by measuring with a digital caliper and/or unbolting the rim and seeing if it has any play around the hub center.

2) Vehicle road downforce can contribute to vibrations. Especially if the vibrations are intermittent and typically go away by driving faster. Balancing, while important (and you should use a Hunter GSP9700) is not often the contributing factor here. The tire and the rim each have a high point and a low point, and in relation to each other they need to be offset for optimal handling and tire wear.

I got a digital caliper and i am going to dismount the rims to measure them all and see how they fit on the hub center. Worth a shot, hopefully the problem can be resolved.

If so I am debating powder coat vs. painting.

Did you ever get this resolved? What was the issue?

I bought mine from cleanin_out_the_garage also - with NO PROBLEMS

When I threw my 22in Nad4's on my X5 I was stupid and did not get an alignment. I noticed some similar symptoms, I took it into a shop called TruLine in bellevue, wa. They were great. They aligned the truck and also fixed my cv boot. Both of these dramatically improved the issues I was having...

Sorry to bump an old thread, but i just got hubrings for my AFS Style 87 wheels but they don't fit. They must be hub centric of 72.56 then. I bought 74.1mm - 72.56mm hub rings and they fit on the hub fine but not in the wheel.

How can some people be running hub rings for AFS wheels and some people not? Different batches?

could be your bushings or ball joints are worn

Replica wheels Beware!!
 

I had purchased black 20s w toyo proxies off ebay..
"mounted balanced and shipped". Discount Tire mounted them.
Over 60 miles an hour there was crazy feedback on the steering wheel.
So i took it to the BMW dealer, had them re balanced ( they said they were fine)
Had an alignment, some other bmw alignment esque thing.. 1,500 bucks later i totallec my 2004X5 cause i couldnt control it. At least I got an early old model 2007 out of it in black i guesss :(

Did I read that correctly? You totaled your X5 due to a wobbly wheel? Just how wobbly was this wheel????

Well in fairness I was going about 100 around a curve..
:p
Sent me into the side rail.. Really didn't look that bad scuffed wheel and bumper damage a little on the left 1/4 panel but the totaled it out.. Suspension damage.
They also said salvage yards are paying top dollar for x5 these days..