BSW Speakers/Woofer upgrade
 

I am tempting to upgrade my X5 audio system with speaker and subwoofer package from Bavarian Soundwerks. Has anyone used their products on your X and your opinion? It looks like their products are well packaged and easy to install. Thanks


http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/index.php

i was going to order these before but i guess i forgot about them...
i'm considering these speakers and an aftermarket amp separately...BSW looks legit enough...:D

I'm also in the market for an audio upgrade.
Anyone with past experience with these?

Yes! Do it!
I had Bavarian Soundwerks install my set since I'm in Atlanta and they did an amazing job. Jason and Micah over there are good people.

I got the MB Quart upgrade and the difference is day and night.
The stock speakers had muddy bass and virtually non-existant treble. Once you get them out and look at them, it's easy to see why. They look so bad! Cheap, paper cones and tiny magnets.

In short, the MB Quarts are great. Detailed but not overbearing treble. Tight, punchy and defined bass. My X5 does not have the sub but even without that, this upgrade is definitely worth it.

How long did it take them? How much? I'm picking up my '06 X5 in April at Spartanburg. I'm re-thinking the premium sound option, especially if I have to replace the OEM speakers anyway. - Any thoughts or suggestions?

It took them a full afternoon. They don't like to rush jobs, understandably!
Check their site for prices but I think it's ~$399 for the speakers and ~$180 for install which is a bit more involved than you might think. They have to trim out the stock speakers from the BMW enclosures and replace the crap drivers with the nice MB Quarts. The Premium sound option does get you the factory "sub" which is nicer but I've never been a big fan of the echo effects that the DSp adds. Either way, swapping the speakers will do wonders.

The price of the speakers package is realistic at $399. but I think their sub is expensive at $699.

I talked to Micah there, and he seemed very knowledgeable. BUT, they don't have a custom enclosure for the subwoofer like the stock one. Does anyone know of such a beast?

Why custom? You can't use the OEM enclosure?

what all speakers were upgraded w/ the Stage 1 Upgrade?
did they replace the rear speakers also?

Don't know if members of this thread read the other thread where el_duderino, who is a principal in a custom shop in Portland and a BIG contributor to the Audio area of X World, posted the following:

Here is the link to the other thread.

http://www.xoutpost.com/stereo-system...placement.html

Yes. They replace the front (A-pillar) tweeters and rear door tweeters as well as the mid-bass drivers in all four doors. The stock mids stay since there isn't really an alternative driver available and it's actually not bad. I have to say, for what you get, it's a smoking deal. Plus, if you select the MB Quart option, you also get crossovers that you can use later should you decide to add additional amplifiers, etc.

One last point. I don't know how much experience you have installing things like this, but I was happy to have them do it. Jason over there is a machine and knows X5's inside and out.

I've exchanged a couple of emails with Micah. He seems very pleasant and knowledgeable. However I am in Southern California - can someone recommend a shop/person that could do the installation if they shipped the kit out to me? I'm ready - but need to find an installer.

Anyone else? Why are no other forum members doing this?

what series MB Quarts does
BSW install?

The Discus line. They are made to be factory replacements.
Despite what some have said, I actually like the Titanium dome tweeters.
BSW offers both choices though. Their silk dome option is a Rainbow speaker which is also German made.

I heard both. But because I stayed with the stock amp and the X5 is not the quietest car at speed, I chose the efficiency and clarity of the Quarts.

For the money, it was a slam dunk. Again, my aim was not to create a rolling concert hall. I just wanted better sound from the stock system.

hmmmm, i wonder if one could pay
for a different series such as the
Reference-Line or Q-Line?

Just a few questions, please:

Do you have DSP?

Did you replace your stock amp?

Thanks.

Question to all. We talking replacement of the standard or premium stereo package with DSP? I love my music and want the best sound I can get (within reason). Do I spend $1200 for the premium package or spend the money on an aftermarket setup? I really need your opinions as I am about to order my '06 X5 this week.

the thing is, if u go aftermarket,
a lot of ur cost will be in the install.
in my last vehicle, i installed speakers
in all of the doors, ran all of the wires; all
i needed the shop to do was build me a sub
enclosure and an amp rack. they charged me
$900+.:yikes: and that was w/ me already having
the equipment and pretty much doing the install for
them.

No, I do not have DSP.

No, I did not replace my stock amp, just the speakers.

Personally, I did not care for the DSP "effects" very much, but that's just me.
The best advice I could give is to bring you favorite CD's to the dealer and listen to the CD's in an X5 with DSP and without. I love my stock non-dsp stereo now that the speakers are worth a crap!

The question is really whether you want BMW Nav or aftermarket Nav. With BMW Nav, you are forced to take premium sound.

However, look at this thread how to take a non-NAV option package and add in a full aftermarket NAV, stereo, speakers without loosing steering wheel control. And the new Pioneer model coming out in February add bluetooth.
http://www.xoutpost.com/x5-e53-forum/...highlight=avic

I just place an order yesterday for the 10" sub and Stage 1. I will attempt to install them myself. So I will let everyone knows the result afterward.

Great! When you do post the result, please give us your full OEM setup too.

I am told the install guide is really good.
I'd be interested to hear you thoughts.

Wow, quite a few questions and a bunch of interest here!

Let me respond to the general questions floating around here:

Will this really sound good and make a big difference even though the midranges and amplifier aren't replaced? Yes, it certainly will! Thing is, even though not all speakers are replaced, you're still impacting a significant portion of the frequency range and improving the way it sounds. So while the midranges aren't replaced and they're still playing, it's still a big improvement - just not as great as it could be if you spent more money!

And yes, an amplifier replacement WOULD improve sound quality, too. But it's not required, and it'd cost you more money. Just a question of cost / benefit. If you'd like to replace your amplifier, we can do that for you, too - and it's not a bad idea to do so, either. Just a question of cost/benefit for you.

How would a BSW Stage 1 and sub system compare to the DSP sound system? It'd blow it away, no question about it. Significantly richer, more accurate bass response, and cleaner sound throughout the frequency range. And if you go to a REASONABLE installation facility, they can probably install everything for no more than $350 or so. We only bill $300 for both.

What about using the nicer MB Quart components like the Premium or Q-Line speakers? While those are great speakers, they require significantly more power than the Discus line to operate properly. Since the factory amplifier (DSP or non) is not a high output amp, if we did a speaker replacement using something like the Premiums or Q Lines, then performance would actually be a little bit lower than what you'd achieve with the Discus components. Higher grade MB Quarts are appropriate as speaker replacements ONLY if you are replacing your amplifier at the same time.

Which speakers are replaced in the Stage 1? The BMW X5 has a 10 speaker system consisting of a 3 way set in the front of the vehicle (tweeter, 2" midrange, and 5.25" midbass driver) and a 2 way set in the rear of the vehicle (tweeter and 5.25" midbass driver). In some sound systems, (DSP, etc.) a factory subwoofer is present. Our Stage 1 Audio Upgrade replaces 8 of the 10 interior component speakers - everything except the front midrange drivers since the cost/benefit ratio means they just aren't really worth replacing. The factory subwoofer, if present, will also stay.

Any more questions? Ask away!

How about this hypothetical approach to using Stage 1 mod, yet getting around the OEM 2" mid-range dilema and keeping OEM amp.

1) Disconnect the dash mounted 2" mid-range speakers and feed the 5.25" front door speaker the signal intended for the 2" mid-range speakers from OEM amp?
2) To replace the door mid-bass, can you then feed a aftermarket subwoofer in the cargo area the appropriate signal?
3) Net, you would end up with 1" tweeter, 5.5" door mid-range (replacing 2" dash mid-range) and 10" to 12" sub-woofer in cargo. What then to do with rear doors?

This wouldn't work because the factory mid-bass drivers are crossed over at a point too high for a subwoofer to play.

Keeping the stock midranges, while not an ideal scenario, really is the best solution if you're keeping your stock amplifier.

Understood.

What about moving the front mid-bass signal to the rear door slot? Wouldn't the frequency carry forward or is it better to be below the ears?

Hello Micah

In reference to an earlier comment you made, I have an X5 with DSP and Nav. Does that mean the amp is higher powered and therefore suitable to use eg Premium speakers?

What does that do to the mid range?

If so, which would you recommend and why?

Secondly, are you able to suggest a way I might improve the AM sound in relation to FM. I have tuned to a station that in my other X5 (with standard business radio) has superior sound reproduction than the DSP system. It sounds like a very old transistor wireless type of radio. When I tuned in with an X3 radio it was more like FM.

The station I want has FM but it is weak and I get drop outs when driving around.

Cheers

LVR - the DSP is not a high powered AMP
and therefore using Premium MB Quart
Speakers is not a good idea. that is why
BAV uses the Discus Series MB Quart Speakers.

OK, frankly I'm lost, but the gist is, it is less expense to have BSW install new speakers and a subwoofer (& amp?) than to pay for premium sound package. And I'll end up with better sound! I'll make an appointment in April when I pickup the new X5 in Spartanburg. Thanks!

pretty much. u'll get better sound
using aftermarket for around the
same price u'll pay for the DSP.

I have an 05 4.8 with DSP. I simply replaced the stock sub enclosure with a 10inch sub system from BSW and the difference was UNBELIEVABLE!!! I am fine with the rest of the OEM speakers, but the main thing lacking in my car was bass. There system is so clean, loud, and powerful........Im amazed its only one 10inch sub back there. Install was easy, with great instructions. Highly recommend this setup for you guys, at least the sub setup. As for the other stages, I have no experience with that. Good luck with whatever you guys choose to do! :thumbup:

Hey there, JS-

I've been considering this mod. Can you (or anybody else) post any pix of the BSW box in the back of your X5? I'm curious to see how much of the precious space gets consumed in the interest of better sound.

FWIW, I've had similar experiences in my prior two E39 5ers with adding a dedicated sub to the factory system. It made a world of difference while at the same time being minimally intrusive.

On my 98 540i/6 (non-DSP), I added a single sealed 10" with an xTant multi-channel amp driving the sub AND the factory speakers. Then I upgraded the factory speakers in the cabin to Boston Acoustices component drivers.

On my '00 M5 (DSP), I had more limited options. In that one, I ran 2x10" a/d/s subs in a 'free-air' install in the rear deck. Took the speaker-level outputs from the factory Nokia "sub" (4.5" speakers in a tuned enclosure??) and ran them to a monobloc sub amp.

The sealed box in the prior setup had a much better sound. More punch, more accurate. My brother still owns that car, and I'm amazed at the sound every time I'm in it. That's why I'm excited by the BSW option.

-Dave

This doesn't void the warranty does it?

It doesn't if you remove the unit before you take your vehicle in for warranty service on your sound system!

Seriously, it sounds like everyone's been beaten into submission that any mod will void your warranty. The dealer might have a leg to stand on (or at least fight you from) if you're having stereo troubles elsewhere in the system. The BSW unit is fairly easily removed if you needed to do so.

If you've got warranty issues elsewhere in your vehicle, I would NOT be concerned about having an aftermarket sub unit give you any problems. If the dealer does give you grief, then find another one! [Said in all seriousness after owning seven new (under warranty) Bimmers--all with some degree of modification--in six different cities since 1992.]

heavyd - How is it going? Anything to report?

The package is scheduled to arrive today. I am thinking about taking off early from work to install them....:-) If not, I'll have to do it this weekend. I will make sure I have a full review for you guys.

Following Jason advise from BSW, I decided to have a professional install my Stage 1 and Sub package. I dropped off the car yesterday at 11:00 and pick it up at 6:00pm. It was not even done. They only had the sub and 1 speaker installed. They said it's a hard to get the speaker into the door. So it's a thought for those who want to try in the future. With the sub and 1 MB Quartz speaker in there, my initial though is the sub powerful but it overwhelme the speakers. Most I hear is base. I have a feeling I have to replace the stock amp also. But this is only my initial thought. Hopefully everything will balance out when all of the speakers are replace and the installer tweak it a little bit. I will post another review once it's done today.

It definitely will. I know that when you hear the tweeters for the time after install, you'll be amazed. It's actually shocking how much of the "sparkle" in music you're missing with the stock speakers. I don't think the stock tweeters even really did anything...:thumbdown

I had the Stage 1 and 10" subwoofer package installed last week. So after a weekend listening to it, here is my thought about the products. Overall I am happy with the result. My X's audio system comes alive. I particularly like the sub. It's deep, accurate and powerful. The speakers are clear especially the tweeters. All of my friends listen to it and said it sounds awesome. I feel a 10" sub is definitely enough for a X5 but it's just my personal opinion. I listen mostly to Trance and Hip-hop. Now even though the speakers and subs are good on their own, I do feel there there is a gap between them. I believe the reason is that the sub is powered by an ED amps while the speakers are powered by the factory amp. As good as it sounds right now, I feel I can get more details out of those MB Quartz by adding an aftermarket amp. And that's what I am going to do. I will feel completed after this...hopefully.

I guess you didn't spend any time listening to the Stage 1 upgrade w/ the OEM sub or did you? Impressions?

No I went ahead and replace both sub and speakers at the same time. I definitly hear much improvement on both.

Thanks for the feedback on our products - we're glad you're happy with the upgrade! I should note that you may feel the bass is overwhelming the interior speakers due to the gain settings being too high on the subwoofer amplifier. I would recommend turning the gain down a bit on your amplifier (call or e-mail if you need help with this) to get a more natural blend with the interior speakers.

After making these tuning adjustmetns, if and when you decide you're ready to move forward with the amplifier upgrade, here's what I would recommend paired with what you already have:

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/pr...I=435/_cid=164
2 x http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/pr...I=480/_cid=285
http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/pr...I=452/_cid=285
http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/pr...I=360/_cid=285

That's the amplifier + all the required wiring and installation components to integrate with your factory head unit.

By the way, would you mind if we used your review of the products on our website?

Micah - i read ur post on another thread about being
a few weeks from a replacement for the midrange
speakers. are u able to give us any more info. about
that? also, would this be available for both the MB
Quarts and the Rainbows? cost? can u tell me what
the difference is between the Rainbows and MB Quarts?

Is that true? A midrange replacement?
I'd be interested too Micah!

Minsoo

Hi Micah,

I was wondering if BSW has looked into making a modified factory amp, where you retain OEM controls, but with the X-over points changed and amp power increased?

We are expecting to receive the replacement midranges within 2-3 weeks at this time. The will be available with all speaker brands that are sold as part of our Stage 1 Audio Upgrade. The pricing will be $90 extra if purchased with the Stage 1, or $99 if purchased separately as a pair. These are our own brand and design.

x5GuyInLA: This is essentially what an aftermarket amplifier provides when installed properly using the right components. As such, there's no need for a modified factory amplifier - we would simply use the aftermarket amplifier!

Color me interested.

Micah,

sure you can use my review on your website. By the way, what's the status of Nine.4 availability?

I hear 'ya when you say that the subs seems to overpower the rest of the system. I too had to experiment with "my perfect setup", tried two 12" MB Quart's with 500/1 amps and felt too much and took up most of the trunk space.. Then tried one 12" Alpine X sub still with the 500/1 amp and it felt right but still doesn't blend right...

I ended up with one 12" MB Quart Premium sub and a 250/1 JL amp and this was exactly what I was looking for... Good deal since Crutchfield was trying to clear their MB Quart inventory so ended up spending $400 for my whole subwoofer setup..

heavyd: Sorry it took me so long to respond! I thought I was subscribed to this thread, but I'm not! First, thanks for letting us use your review. Second, the Nine.4 amps should be available within a week at this point.

Midranges - we're look at 3 weeks out on these, guys. We're doing a pre-order special at $75 with a Stage 1 vs. the $90 we would normally charge OR $90 vs. the $119/pair we will charge outside of a Stage 1. If you have any interest in preordering, just e-mail me at [email protected] or call 678.608.2615.

In an earlier post, you state that the Stage 1 doesn't include the mid's since they are fine, but now you are offering a replacement. Seems kind of a flip-flop.

That's not quite what I said or what our stance has been. Our feeling has been that the midranges aren't worth replacing unless you can do it within a certain price range - just a cost/benefit thing. In the past, we hadn't been able to find a reasonably priced midrange replacement, so ultimately it wasn't worth replacing for $200 or higher (prices we were seeing to be able to do it).

Well, now that we have midrange drivers that WE produced because of this fact, the story is a little different since they are going to be in the market at $90, which is a good enough value to justify the replacement. So it's not a flip flop -- just two sides of the same coin. :)

Actually, Micah's been amazingly consistent in promoting the whole cost-benefit perspective--nothing you could fairly characterize as flip-flopping or even wavering. Yes, there are sonically superior options, but it's possible to significanly upgrade the factory gear for less than a grand or so...

Micah, I appreciate your frequent posting to the forum. Your willingness to share what you've learned has helped BSW customers and DIY'ers alike. As one who went the DIY route with MBQ driver swap and a complete subwoofer & amp install on my E39 M5, I very much like the notion of packaged options with an eye toward maximizing the cost-benefit curve.

I'm on the verge of a Stage I w/mids and a single 12" sub/amp combo.

Question for the BSW folks: I know first-hand what replacing the drivers in the doors is like--even have my own tools now--but what I'm really curious about is how hard it is to replace the mids in the front corners of the dash?

Thanks!
-Dave

Dave: Thanks for your kind words. We're extremely happy to be a part of the community!

The midrange replacement in the X5 is so easy it's stupid. There is a little grill cover that comes off with a little prying with a screwdriver, and then the midrange, which has two little "ears" for attachment, is removed by taking out two screws. Our replacement midranges have plates that allow you to screw the new ones back in -- wiring is just crimping a couple of butt connectors.

The ONLY hard part is that because you're close to the windshield, manuevering the screwdriver can be tough. But it's truly a piece of cake, and they sound great.

So with the mid's added to the Stage 1 package at slightly higher cost, how do you get them to match the tone of the other speakers in the package? Are all the other speakers made to matching specs? I thought the other speakers in Stage 1 were MB's?

there are 3 speaker choices for stage 1.
CDT, MB Quart and Rainbow.

Agreed, but how does the new mid fit into these choices?

Here is the post that I am confused about. You state "...available with all brands" then go on to say "These are our own brand and design."

the mid-range speaker is BSW's own design.
if u order the Stage 1 upgrade, their speaker
will work w/ the 3 brands available, but the mid
is a BSW design.

If this is the case, I just don't see how you can get the voice tone to match with different materials, etc.

micah will have to answer that one.
my guess is, they matched input/output
range of the factory mid; as they did
for the other speakers. everything is
still running thru the factory amp still;
so, mixing and matching speakers isn't
as important as matching the speakers
to the amp output. don't hold me to that.
this is purely just a guess.:dunno:

Different materials between the tweeter and mid will produce varying timbre or voice tone. I am very skeptical how they can pull it off.

Duffin: Our goal with the BSW midrange is to improve upon the factory midrange. It's not an absolute perfect match in terms of its "character," but it's SIGNIFICANTLY better than the factory midrange and works very will with all three brands of speakers we offer.

Again, we are not trying to create the absolute best possible sound system here - we're trying to create a solution that significantly improves the sound quality of the OEM system as completely as possible without breaking the bank. We think our Stage 1 + Midranges does a superb job of that -- better than anything else available on the market -- but you don't have to believe me or even take on any risk. Everything we offer comes with our 100% Guarantee, so if you buy the system and you're not totally satisfied, just return what you've purchased within 30 days for a full refund, EVEN if you've installed the products. There are some conditions (like the products you return have to be in working, original condition), so here's a link to the full policy.

The fact is, we aren't here to trick anybody or be deceptive, and our FIRST and FOREMOST goal is that you the customer are happy with our solutions. If you aren't, just return them. We know they do a great job, but if you don't agree, you aren't stuck. We think that's the fair, right way to handle things and run a business.

Also worth noting: the original midranges vary in impedence from vehicle to vehicle, and in some cases, whether the car has DSP or not, etc. I'd have to double check and make sure whether this is the case with the X5, but know this: we test our midranges in the application, and if required, include a resistor to create the necessary Ohm/Efficiency configuration for a balanced sound.

Michah:

Thanks for your clarification. This info is helpful for everyone to make their own decisions.

Certainly. By the way, our midrange replacements are in stock! Check it out, folks:

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/pr...I=489/_cid=162

JL Audio Stealthbox!
 

http://www.xoutpost.com/group-buys/22...rst-serve.html:rofl:

I don't understand the intent of your post. Are you just plugging the JL audio subwoofer system?

Stealthbox
 

I am only plugging the group buy. It is exclusive to X5world members only.