2003 4.4i with ABS lights on plus battery
 

Hi Guys,

I've recently purchased an X5 with known issues off ebay so I did get it cheap.

I have the 3 ABS lights on plus the battery light, the PO said he had the battery and Alt checked and all was fine. Was wondering if the battery light being on had anyting to do with the ABS lights? Could they be seperate issues?

Car is an 03 4.4...

I took it to a friends last night who had a better code reader, it said something about loss of power and another about steering position sensor? I checked the battery terminals last night and they were all good, I'll check the other things later and get back to you-thanks. He tried to clear the lights but they wouldn't go out.

Try turning the steering wheel lock to lock a couple of time.

Tried that, didn't work. Tried the ignition on for 3 minutes, didn't work.

Put it on a battery charger for a few hours, then clear all the codes, then see if that does anything different.

OK, tried the battery charger and it didn't do anything, I tool it back to a mates who scanned it with a different reader, same codes - brief power interuption and steering angle sensor. I think im going to change this first, the BMW specialist wants $1100 to fix it, he says the part is $600 and the fitting takes 3 hours inc coding! I'll fit it myself or get my friend to do it and then take it to them for coding. The PO owner said that the ABS lights were on before the battery light came on so at this stage im assuming it has 2 different issues. I'll change the sesnor and go from there, he tried to clear the lights again, one goes off but comes back on within 5 seconds - the other 2 are permanantly on.

As far as the ABS, you need to get a factory level scan tool that can look into the modules; a generic scan tool won't do anything for you. If you hook the car to a GT1 or Autologic, you can communicate with the ABS module, and see if there are any faults. These will not necessarily throw a code that a generic OBDII scanner will see. If the proper scan tool can not communicate with the ABS module, which is not at all uncommon on these cars, then it's time to replace or rebuild the ABS module. There are services that rebuild the modules for a bit over $100. But not all are rebuildable. The one on my 528i was, the one on my X5 was not. But the rebuilding service supplied a working module for $400, a LOT less than a new one. Once the new module is installed, it then needs to be coded. Not particularly accessible on the X5.

The guy I take it to is an ex BMW mechanic and he has a decent code reader, he got into the ABS section and it said both front sensors and the steering angle sensor are at fault. I think i'll take it to BMW..

Ok, so I haven't taken it to BMW yet but I've ordered a BMW specific code reader, the C110. I also did some further investigating, I noticed a fuse had blown so I'll be replacing that soon, it wasn't one of the four ABS ones. I've had the car parked for the last 4 days and I've just gone out to start it, it just clicks so I checked the voltage and it reads 11.2 volts... I've stuck my trickle charger on it and I'll retest it tomorrow, I did have the passenger door open the other day for 3 hrs whilst I replaced the door carrier, could that have drained the battery that much?

I still question the integrity of the battery, and a weak battery can cause ALL sorts of issues in these cars. Let's discount what the PO said. Two ways to properly test the battery:

1) Quickly: Attach the car to a sophisticated digital load tester like the Snap-on EECS500. These can test the battery immediately. I'm not a big fan of the old fashioned load tester for a giant battery like the X5 has.

2) Slow way: Charge overnight. Remove the charger for several hours to remove any surface charge, and then test the battery with a volt meter. If you don't get 12.75 volts or so, the battery is likely bad. This is not as accurate a test as option (1), and takes a lot longer, but it should give you a general idea.

Thanks guys, really appreciate the feedback. The battery is now on charge overnight, I shall report back tomorrow with the voltage readings. I'll be peed off if the battery is at fault given the PO said he had it checked by 3 different mecahnics... he never mentioned having the alternator checked so that will be the next thing to check after the battery.

You can check the battery voltage and the alternator output by unlocking the cluster and going to test 9. Don't know about Australia but most auto parts stores here will load test the battery for free.

It's also possible the PO used the wrong battery. These cars use a lot of juice, and need the proper, and quite large, and costly, battery. Not a place to cut corners. I do concur with trader4's comments as well. Lot's of hack mechanics/autoparts stores will stick any battery in the car with the terminals in the right place. That's simply NOT good enough for a BMW. And with the later cars, (E70 and beyond), the new battery needs to be coded to the car.

I think the battery is the original one! It's the one showing the green, black light.. It's huge!

So what's the voltage after charging and letting it sit off the charger for several hours?

BTW, if you do this while the battery is in the car and connected, and you get a less than satisfactory result, there's no guarantee you don't have some sort of parasitic current drain. If the result is good, you're good. But if it's bad, you might want to repeat the test with the battery disconnected just to be sure you're not condemning a good, (and expensive,) battery.

Or just have the battery load tested.

I've had the battery on a trickle charger for the past 2 days - it's still charging! Once it's fully charged i'll report back.

Ok, I have the readings...
Just to recap, my battery light is always on and so is the abs trifecta.
My battery died on the drive the other day but I think it was because I had the doors open for 4 hours whilst changing the carrier. It's since been on a trickle charger.
Battery was dead 11.2v
Charged up to 13.16v
After first start 12.53v
After 1 hr with battery disconnected from car 12.6v
Started car after 1 hr, idled at 13.8v
Revved to 1500 and got 13.92v
car is now idling between 13.8 and 13.85v

I don't see what is wrong? These numbers seem ok yet my light is still on. Any ideas?

You really didn't follow through on that battery test properly. After charging, (via charger or driving the car), disconnect the battery and let it sit for at least two hours, three would be better. One hour is not enough. Then test it with a VOM, not by hooking it up, starting the car and looking at the voltage in the cluster. But the 12.53 volts you got seems a little low, but without the proper test, there's no way to be sure. The minute you start the car, your alternator bumps the surface charge up on the battery, quickly overriding any juice you used starting the car. The problem is that the surface charge will give you a false high reading. A good battery tester will not be fooled by the surface charge. But if all you've got is a VOM, you need to deplete that surface charge fully before testing.

It doesn't have to be this complicated. Just get the battery load tested. The alternator voltages are in the normal range.

Ok, I'll do the test again. Just for info before I put the charger back on I got 12.44 volts, that was after the car was left overnight connected to the battery. Anyway, I'll stick the charger back on now...

bcredliner - I appreciate your comments but im not in the US and I do not know of any places that do load test, nor do I trust the garages around here hence why I would like to perform the test myself and also learn a little along the way. I get that I need to test the battery but at the end of the day, isnt it the alternator that influences the battery light, not the battery itself? In saying that, I know that I need to fix the battery issue if indeed it has a fault. Please keep your comments coming - I'm determined to get this issus sorted.

Assuming you have an acid battery, 12.44 volts is only about 75% charged. So if you get it to 100% on the charger, and then take off the charger for several hours, and by itself, without being hooked to the car, it goes back down to 12.44 volts, it may not be a totally dead battery, but it's NOT fully right either. Perhaps a dead cell. After sitting for at least several hours, (but better to test first thing in the morning with no charger on all night), and dissipating the surface charge, it should test 12.70v+. If doing this test repeats the 12.44v, replace the battery. You may still have other problems, but these cars are so particular about having a good battery, that it needs to be done.

Also, just to note, unless you have a deep cycle battery, (generally used for marine use), every time you drain the battery to the point where the car needs a jump, you have done permanent harm to your acid battery. Do that a few times, and it may not be up to snuff for a fussy electronic car like an X5.

Cheers Skyline, ill report back tomorrow once its charged and left over night disconnected.
I'll also look into the wiring at the alternator end, although I guess ill have to remove the fan / belts etc to get to the wiring? I also thought about testing the voltage on the dash - as per the earlier post.

I noticed you are not in the neighborhood. I am surprised that is not available to you as it is so common here. The battery 'stores' don't load test the battery to make sure it is bad before they sell you a new one?

Are you checking the battery and alternator voltage from the cluster or otherwise?

Did you clear the error codes when did the scan and they have returned?

You could buy a multimeter that has a battery load test option.

:iagree:

Charged battery last night to 12.8v (disconnected from car) and 12 hours later battery now reads 12.98v so no lost charge overnight.
I'll take it to a local battery place later but I did do the test whereby you test the voltage with the engine cranking (underload) it dropped down to 10.5v then shot back up so I assume this is ok, do I still need to get it checked out or can we now say it's ok and move on to the ABS lights?
I rang a 2 auto electricians yesterday, they sounded interested in looking at it until I told them what tests is done already, they said they wouldn't be able to any more than that! So I'm on my own..

If I know the alt and battery are working fine I'm not overly concerned about the battery light being on, obviously I would love to fix it but if it's not causing other issues I'm happy to move on, if however the light being on is causing the ABS issue they yes it needs to be sorted. I just don't know what to check next, I'll go to my local battery store this morning to have one final check of the battery. What do you suggest after that? The auto electrician I spoke to on the phone yesterday said the battery light on this model comes from the ECM hence why he didn't want to know after that! I had a look on YouTube on how to remove the alt to that I could see the wiring, I can get to the front connector which looks to have two spade ends that I could check the voltage on? After that I guess I'd have to check the ohms/voltage going to the battery light bulb?

Do you know if it's possible to remove the cluster and check the voltage to the bulb? It's a public holiday here so I can't take it for a battery test just yet. I'll also double check all of the connections around battery, alt, grounds etc today.
One thing I didn't mention, whilst driving a few of the other lights (fuel gauge, MIL and something else) flicker every now and then, all at the same time-not sure if this has anything to do with it, when my mate had the code reader attached he kept getting steering angles sensor faults plus "brief power interruption"...

Ok, I have a blue and green wire coming from the alt, I pierced the blue with and got 15.3v,it seemed to fluctuate a bit but that could have been me moving the wire..

Stevo; It appears the battery is OK, and from he voltage shown when running, the alternator is working. But as already stated, these are fussy cars, with very sophisticated electronics, and yours is telling you it's not up to snuff. It's time to throw in the towel, and either bring it to a dealer or a good specialty shop that has some better diagnostic equipment. If you're looking for an independent shop, the very first question should be: 'Do you have an Autologic with up to date BMW Software". If the answer is no, move on. Once they sort the battery light, ask them to see if the Autologic can communicate with the ABS module. If the answer is no, tell them to NOT fix it. If it's a bad sensor, that's up to you, but likely not crazy expensive.

Either the ABS problems will solve themselves when all voltage issues are fixed, or they won't. If they don't, often the module is completely out to lunch. While it could be a sensor, if its the module, you can either: Put in a new part, then have it coded, ($1,500 part.). Put in a used part, and have it coded, ($750 part). Or send your module out to one of the rebuilders on eBay. If you're lucky, $100, and then recode. If you're not lucky, another $400 and they'll send you a rebuilt unit. No matter what, the unit will need to be coded. But to attempt this with a battery light on is silly; these cars are known to throw the trifecta lights when voltage is not perfect. Sort that first.

The ABS module in the X5 is in a very bad spot. It's about a minute to remove from a 5 series, but on the X5, you need to remove the left side headlight, and the whole assembly with the oil filter, power steering reservoir needs to be moved aside. Given the location down below the headlight, mine was completely filled with muck...no wonder it failed.

Thanks skyline, I also think that is the next step but I should mention I've just checked the voltage coming from the alternator and it isn't steady, it's jumping from 15v down to 7v, I'm assuming this is the voltage reg on the alt, I'm guessing because it isn't steady it's throwing the battery light on.. Maybe that's the first / cheaper option to replace the regulator.. It's funny that I'm getting a steady voltage at the battery end but unsteady from the alt to the ECM.

I measured it on the blue wire coming out of the alt and going to the ECM, I traced it up to the top of the engine, the wires join in a plastic box under the engine cover. I Was torn whether or not to replace the alt or the VR, I guess the safest option is to just replace the alt, I think I'm looking at $500 on eBay unless anyone knows of a cheaper option? I'll report back once it's fitted-now off to remove the alt, this should be fun!

I don't suppose someone wants to check their voltage coming from the blue wire on their alternator for me just to see if theirs fluctuates like mine? I want to make sure that's my problem before I purchase an alternator..

The car is now in with the BMW specialist, I should find out later today what the issue is, I asked them what they used and they said Pro logic or something like that.

OK, the garage has rang to tell me that it's the alternator - it has an intermittent fault hence the varying currents going back to the dash light, they wanted $2K for the new alternator fitted, i'll be buying one from a scrapper for $300 and fitting it myself shortly. Once that is fitted i'll have the ABS lights cleared and go from there... hopefully the new alt will fix the ABS lights, fingers crossed.

Basically because of the price.. Do I need a gasket for the alternator?

Update, I relaced the alternator today. Battery light and abs lights still on. Battery is charging fine at 14v. I'm peed off as the garage I took it to said "it took us a while to find it but your alternator has an intermittent fault" charged me $200 and that's that. I'll be going back to the garage on Monday for a refund as that obviously isnt the problem. I've read it could be the ignition switch? Or maybe even the cluster.. The ABS lights are still coming up with the same error "brief power interruption".

Yes I had checked all the cables previously. I'll check for the varying voltage again next. What's annoying is that I paid a BMW specialist to tell me what was wrong so that I didn't have to waste cash throwing money at parts I didn't need.. I'm wondering of it could be the wiring from the alt to the computer, I'll check anyway and come back to you.

I've just checked the wire going into the cluster, it looks like someone has been here before as the screws holding the cluster in were missing. Anyway, I'm getting 14v at pin 3. I believe this should be turning off the battery light... New cluster?

It's booked back in at the garage on Thursday, they dug the report out and they say it states 13.6 to 13.8 volts on the old alt, they said that was out of the tolerance for the 4.4i hence why they said it was the alt. I'll see what they say on Thursday. Yes, I fitted the second hand alt which came with warranty.

Ok, took It back to the garage today, they confirmed that the alternator is charging fine so are saying it's the cluster. They managed to fix the ABS trifecta due to the steering angle sensor not being calibrated correctly! At least that is sorted... It's deffo already had a new cluster as mine is reading 157000 klms but the computer was reading 250000 klms!!! He asked if I wanted to have the cluster coded to the car but that would have meant my current cluster would read the true 250k, I told him to leave it. I guess I should now either leave the car as is or maybe source a new cluster, these are new from BMW here at $1300 but again, the new K's would read 250k or I could source a second hand one and have the tamper dot on...