Is this definitely a window regulator problem?
 

I have multiple problems with our 03 E53 that I'm trying to tackle. One of them is a front passenger side window that has all the symptoms of a regulator problem - it goes down easily, but moves up very slowly, and can't make it all the way up without assistance. About two years ago, my wife noticed these symptioms, so I took the panel off, and found the classical regulator problem, in that the plastic clips that attach the regulator to the window had broken. The rest of the regulator appeared to be in good shape, so I secured the ends of the regulator to the metal piece that attaches to the glass with a pair of zip ties, and it has worked fine ever since. Until now, that is.

So, I took the panel off, and my fix is holding - there's no sign of the regulator cable ends tying to work their way free. Also, the cables are where they belong - none have worked their way free of their pulley wheels, and nothing is binding up anywhere. In summary, the regulator visually looks perfect. So, could the problem still be the regulator, or could it be something else? If so, what should I check for? I don't want to throw parts at this thing until I'm pretty sure I'm replacing the right component. Thanks.

Front passenger side door handle won't open door
 

This is the second in a series of post regarding problems on our 03 E53 that have me stumped. As the title says, the front passenger side of our 03 X53 won't open using the outside door handle. It opens fine using the inside door lever. The lock mechanism works fine. So, I took the door panel off, and found a large amount of slack in the cable that attaches the outside door handle to the lock mechanism inside the door:

Attachment 66438

As a result of the slack, the door handle runs out of travel before it can act on the mechanism that unlatches the door. I looked up inside the door while my wife operated the handle, and nothing is disconnected or loose. There's just this weird amount of slack in the cable. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? Thanks in advance.

Don't know why these separate threads ended up in the same one. I'll wait awhile and try to post the second one in a separate new thread.

The cable with the slack makes me think it is broken in the middle. I bet if you grabbed one end, it would come all the way out. They are not adjustable- so if the ends are still attached, the only way to get slack is a broken cable.

The plastic clips that hold the window to the regulator are about $1.50 each at a dealer. They are available for more bucks on Amazon, too. They have a special nut that slips inside, and a bolt. I found those on my X at the bottom of the door cavity. I would get the window properly secured before doing any more troubleshooting. The zip ties will let it wiggle around and I think it would have a greater chance of getting jammed.

as for your door handle, it looks like your latch isn`t springing back properly.

Looks like the door handle assembly is broken.

You can get the Genuine BMW assembly for about half the price online than at the dealer.

As far as the window, my window would not go up without assistance and it turned out to be my window motor. Unfortunately mine was so bad I couldn't even get it to spin the window down so I had to cut the regulator cable, thus me also needing a new regulator.

Thanks for all the replies.

David,

I don't think the door handle cable is broken in the middle, because when my wife pulled the outside handle, I could see the cable tighten. Also, the cable is very stout - it would take a lot to break it in the middle. But I agree that the cable being broken in the middle is the only logical explanation for the slack. I'll try disconnecting it from its lower attachment point, and seeing if it's broken.

Interesting point about the clips that hold the window to the regulator. Any chance you happen to have a part number, and even better, a diagram? I'm trying to picture the parts you're referring to, but I'm not 100% sure which ones they are, and the diagram on realoem.com isn't too clear, at least to me. It definitely seems like the assembly is binding as the window moves up, so maybe the zip ties are allowing too much movement.

puddinboo and joshdub,

Could you guys elaborate on your theories? What makes you think the latch isn't springing back properly, or that the door handle assembly is broken? Thanks.

Here's a screen shot from the parts diagram. The plastic clip is part 7 (shown to the side). The special nut is part 6. The special bolt is part 5. It looks like it is pointing to the pulley, but that's not right - it attaches to the moving parts of the regulator (there are two plastic sliders that the motor moves up and down).

Here's a link that includes a photo: Amazon.com: 2 Genuine BMW Window Regulator Clips for Your BMW E53 X5: Automotive


The clip works like an expanding plastic anchor for drywall - if fits into the hole in the window, and expands when the bolt is tightened, but avoids metal-to-glass contact. I had one vibrate loose, too, so now I use some the weak "removable" locktight on the special nut and bolt.

I have attached a pic of the latch. you need to check the spring on the latch to make sure it didn`t break and where the pivot point is make sure its not rusted , also its a good idea to lube that area up while you have the door panel off.

David,

I'll double check, but I believe the parts you're describing are intact on my regulator. They disintigrated on my drivers side regulator, which I replaced several years ago, but I believe they're all OK on my passenger side regulator. But I'll definitely check to make sure.

What you're showing is a picture of the actuator. Are you sure this isn't the piece that might be broken on my X5?

Genuine BMW 51218243616OE Door Handle, Exterior

It feels like this piece is in the area where the problem is.

The handle assembly breaks and you can lose tension on the cable. It looks like that cable has no tension on it what so ever. The part you linked from AZautohaus is the handle assembly, and is known to be a problem area.

FYI, you can get the same handle from FCPeuro with a lifetime warranty.

I was just thinking that the spring could be broken on the electric latch, but its hard to tell since I can`t see either the latch or handle.

I took another look, and confirmed that the plastic clips that hold the regulator to the window are in perfect condition, and the bolts are tight. So, something else is causing my window to move at a snails pace. I don't mind ordering and installing a new regulator if that's what I need to do, but I want to be as sure as I can that I wouldn't be throwing money away on something that isn't needed.

did you unplug motor and see if your getting at least 12v to the motor?

If you remove the regulator and motor, you can test them individually - the motor should spin forwards and backwards smoothly when reconnected to the switch. It can be operated after unbolting it from the regulator.

The regulator mechanism (pulley and sliders, etc) should slide by hand once the motor is removed (the gearing creates a lot of drag). It is no fun to tear it all apart just to troubleshoot, but that's the way to find out.

It may be that the cable on the regulator has jumped the drive gear that's underneath the motor. You won't see it unless you remove the motor. That's one of the problems I had on the regulator on my E46 that I just replaced. The other problem was a broken clip of course.

It's probably the motor. Remove it and test it now.before it completely goes out. If it goes out you'll need to cut the regulator wires to get the window detached from the regulator.

Thanks for the suggestions. Looks like I've got lots of things to test. I'll tear it all apart asap and try to figure out if it's the motor, the drive gear, the regulator, or something else.

Do I have to take the regulator completely out to remove the motor, or will removing the bolts that hold it the to frame without actually removing the regulator give me enough room to disconnect the motor so I can test it?

You can remove the motor without removing the actual regulator itself. I believe you will need to take the speaker out to access it. Should be held onto the regulator with 3 T20 or T30 screws

Question - do I have to remove the bolt and plastic clip that holds the glass to the regulator before I unbolt the regulator to allow me to move it far enough to access the motor? In other words, can I unbolt and move the regulator without removing the glass? Thanks.

You can't access the motor by just removing the speaker?

Usually when working on the regulator you disconnect the glass and move it up manually and tape it in place.

No, the motor is buried behind the door frame - removing the speaker didn't improve my access to it at all. There's no way to remove the motor without moving the regulator several inches toward the rear of the car to get the motor behind the opening left by the speaker.

So, here's the dilema: I don't know if the problem is the regulator or the motor. I can't access the motor without removing the regulator. But to remove the regulator, I have to separate it from the glass, which means there's a good chance I'll break the plastic clips that hold the glass to the regulator, since they're pretty fragile pieces, and they're 12 years old. If I break the clips, the window won't stay up (unless I use tape), and the car is parked outside. Do I have any option other than buying a pair of clips (the dealer is on the opposite side of town from me), and taking everything completely apart to troubleshoot this thing?

Unfortunately no. Whenever working on the regulator you should have a spare set of those black window clips from the dealer, because when you remove the regulator from the vehicle you need to loosen the bolts on those clips to disconnect the glass from the cable clips on the regulator itself.

Tape the window up after disconnecting it from the regulator, go across town and get the black clips from the dealer. They are a bit sturdier now as well than when they were 12+ years ago. Also, go on RegulatorFix.com and get a set of the front window regulator cable clips as they are prone to breaking on the regulators.

Thanks - well, it's a fair bit of work just to figure out what's wrong, but at least I see what I'm up against. I can't make it to the dealer today, but I'll pick up a pair of clips tomorrow.

I couldn't get to the bolts holding the motor to the regulator without removing the regulator completely from the door.

I'm not surprised, given the very limited access. The thing that really sucks about this job is that I'll probably have to completely remove the regulator, hopefully be able to diagnose whether the problem is with the regulator vs. the motor, then I'll have to put everything back together while waiting for whichever part it turns out to be, and then take it all apart again to replace the part. And I'm not 100% convinced I'll be able to unambiguously determine which component is the one that's faulty. For those who have gone through a similar problem, it is obvious when the motor is bad? It's having no problem sending the window down; it just can't lift it up, but I can't tell if it's because the motor is weak, or if the regulator mechanism is binding somewhere.

Personally? I'd grab a set of those window clips as they have gotten better over the years and have more plastic to "grab" the window, if they are loose the regulator will have a tough time raising the window

It may be as simple as replacing those, cleaning up the tracks a bit, and seeing how it lifts then. As well, check your door panel alignment, if it is butting up against the window too hard and the window has force on it when its raising it will slow down the raising function if that makes sense.

You can also try the "zip tie" fix if it seems the cables are starting to come loose from the regulator.

I may end up doing that, but from what I can see, the zip ties I installed a couple of years ago seem to be holding very securely - when I raise the window, there's not visible "rocking" or any sign of extra movement where the zip ties are securing the regulator cables to the window. But I will definitely take a close look for any sign of binding anywhere else. I imagine that will involve removing the regulator, removing the motor, re-installing the regulator, re-attaching the window to the regulator, and then seeing how easily I can move the window up by hand. Hopefully I will be able to judge whether it is binding anywhere.

Clean up the tracks while the regulator is out with some cleaner, I'm sure years of grime, dirt specks, grease etc are on there. Lubricate with a bit of Teflon spray (I use the DuPont stuff from Lowes). Should definitely help run smoother. And if your zipties are working, and cable is staying securely clipped to the cable clips, perhaps just a thorough inspection/cleaning and replacing of worn window clips may be all you need.

I only needed a new window motor once on my old 2000 VW but it was because I stripped it out when the regulator busted for the 3rd time.

Thanks; yeah, I suspect it isn't my motor, since it drives the window down just fine, and I don't see why the motor would become too "weak" over time to drive the window back up. I suspect as you say that either there's some sort of obstruction on the tracks, or the regulator itself is binding for some reason. I should know by tomorrow; I'll keep everybody posted.

Please do. Mine rolls up slower on the passenger side compared to the drivers so I have been meaning to check mine as well

If you roll your passenger side window all the way down, does it make it all the way up? I can roll mine down no more than a couple of inches - any more than that causes it to slow to a crawl. No way it can make it all the way from the bottom to the top.

Yes mine has no issues rolling up. Its just slower compared to the drivers side.

So here's what I found. I took the regulator/motor out, and noticed that when I did my zip-tie repair a couple of years ago, I seem to have left the heads of the zip ties in a position where there's sticking out far enough to bind up the regulator mechanism. Thinking I had it solved, I removed the zip ties, and installed new ones, taking care that they ended up in positions where they wouldn't hit anything as the regulator moved.

So I put the regulator back in, and ran it up and down before I attached the glass. No problem - very smooth, fast operation in both directions. So this definitely ruled out the motor as the culprit. But when I tried re-attaching the glass, I ran into a major problem - after struggling for nearly an hour, there was no way I could get both the front and back clips (the ones that hold the glass to the regulator) to simultaneously align with the positions in the piece of the regulator to which they attach. So, my theory now is that somehow, the regulator has become "non-symmetrical" - maybe something internally stretched, wore, or moved in some fashion on one side of the regulator, creating a situation where the front and back parts of the regulator are out of alignment relative to each other. I can't visually see anything wrong with it, but I'm pretty sure the "non-symmerty" is what was causing it to bind as it was trying to raise the window. So, unless someone has any alternate theories, I'm going to go ahead and order a new regulator.

Someone had suggested that perhaps a cable jumped a pulley- perhaps that could cause the change in path length. Hard to believe it wouldn't jam tight or get really sloppy though. The regulator isn't too pricey - I put in a dorman regulator from Amazon. Around $50 from what I recall. Has been going strong.

I checked all four pullies - the cables are securely contained within each of them. There just isn't any visual sign of a problem with the regulator, but it's definitely off-kilter, which seems to be causing it to bind as it goes up. It's true that regulators aren't very expensice, and now that I've been through this troubleshooting experience, it should take me no time to install a new one.