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-   -   A/C Quit -- new compressor, or is clutch replaceable? (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/100925-c-quit-new-compressor-clutch-replaceable.html)

e30mpower 06-13-2015 04:03 AM

A/C Quit -- new compressor, or is clutch replaceable?
 
Here's my code courtesy of DIS. http://i.imgur.com/MKzt30L.jpg

Can I replace just the clutch or is the whole compressor shot?

upallnight 06-13-2015 08:32 AM

Clutch can be replaced, but it will be easier if the compressor is removed from the car to do it. That will require you to take it in to a shop with the proper equipment to get the refrigerant removed from the system.

If I was going through all that work I would replace the compressor with a new or rebuilt compressor. I would not cheap out by using a used compressor.

axgordon 06-13-2015 10:01 AM

I had exactly same situation two years ago with my 2003 3.0. Was able to fix without removing compressor from the car! Please stand by. I will post pictures and explanation how I did this repair.

axgordon 06-13-2015 11:06 AM

3 Attachment(s)
As promised! This procedure worked great on my car, as well on one of my coworkers car. Both were 2003 with same type compressors. Please note that compressor shown in the pictures - also from 2003 3.0 which was replaced by the local shop for the same reason. I was to late to advise owner on this repair.

Steps:
1. Remove radiator fan and shroud
2. Remove splash pan
3. Remove AC belt
4. Unscrew torx bolt on the front of the compressor clutch and remove clutch plate. It comes out easily. Be careful not lo lose thin spacer washer / washers. Some may stay in the clutch plate and some may stick to the end of the shaft.
5.Remove snap ring that hold the clutch hub / bearing and pry it off. Worked off carefully using two large flat screwdrivers or small pry bars. Needs little extra effort here, but it will come out.
6.Pry off thermal fuse cover on the clutch coil. It will break in pieces. No worries here.
7. With exacto knife, scrape insulation from coil wires right next to the crimp connectors and solder piece of wire between them. Ignore / break / remove thermal fuse. You can safely leave without it.
8. Verify that circuit is restored using multimeter, or run DIS diagnostic.
9. Seal area with silicone sealer to prevent corrosion.
10. Re assemble compressor clutch.
11. Re-install belt, fan and splash pan
12. Enjoy working AC.

e30mpower 06-13-2015 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axgordon (Post 1041316)
As promised! This procedure worked great on my car, as well on one of my coworkers car. Both were 2003 with same type compressors. Please note that compressor shown in the pictures - also from 2003 3.0 which was replaced by the local shop for the same reason. I was to late to advise owner on this repair.

Steps:
1. Remove radiator fan and shroud
2. Remove splash pan
3. Remove AC belt
4. Unscrew torx bolt on the front of the compressor clutch and remove clutch plate. It comes out easily. Be careful not lo lose thin spacer washer / washers. Some may stay in the clutch plate and some may stick to the end of the shaft.
5.Remove snap ring that hold the clutch hub / bearing and pry it off. Worked off carefully using two large flat screwdrivers or small pry bars. Needs little extra effort here, but it will come out.
6.Pry off thermal fuse cover on the clutch coil. It will break in pieces. No worries here.
7. With exacto knife, scrape insulation from coil wires right next to the crimp connectors and solder piece of wire between them. Ignore / break / remove thermal fuse. You can safely leave without it.
8. Verify that circuit is restored using multimeter, or run DIS diagnostic.
9. Seal area with silicone sealer to prevent corrosion.
10. Re assemble compressor clutch.
11. Re-install belt, fan and splash pan
12. Enjoy working AC.

Hello, new best friend. On my way to grab a six pack and my brother for a fun-filled day of DIY. :bow:

upallnight 06-13-2015 02:32 PM

If you remove the other snap ring as seen in this picture, the entire clutch winding can be removed.

http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/...e-img_4847.jpg

Your initial reply was that it can be done on the car, but the procedures you show in the pictures is with the compressor removed from the car and the repairs to the clutch done with the compressor off the car. I'm sure that it can be done with the compressor still on the car, but as I stated in my post it will be easier accomplish if the compressor was off the car.

axgordon 06-13-2015 02:54 PM

This is correct! Exactly what I did when I did original troubleshooting. It is little bit PITA to find right size snap ring pliers to fit there and use mirror, however it is doable. I was not comfortable to post this solution since I wasn't sure how long it will last. Today, two years and 35k miles later it still works!

X5only 06-13-2015 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1041305)
Clutch can be replaced, but it will be easier if the compressor is removed from the car to do it. That will require you to take it in to a shop with the proper equipment to get the refrigerant removed from the system.

If I was going through all that work I would replace the compressor with a new or rebuilt compressor. I would not cheap out by using a used compressor.

How is it easier if it requires removal of refrigerant from the system?

axgordon 06-13-2015 03:06 PM

@UPALLNIGHT - I note in my original post that compressor on the pictures is not mine. I did all work on the car without evacuation of freon. I went in garage this morning and took apart same compressor just take pictures. This compressor was replaced for a customer by local BMW shop this spring. I just get it from the metal pile to keep it as spare. It has same problem.

upallnight 06-13-2015 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5only (Post 1041326)
How is it easier if it requires removal of refrigerant from the system?

Obviously you never changed a clutch on an AC compressor. Doing it on the car is a bitch. Having the compressor on a work table make removing the clutch assembly a lot easier then working on your back underneath the car with limited room to work in.

Just connect a recovery machine and recovery tank and remove the refrigerant. Easy Peeze. Don't have a recovery machine and recovery tank, then you need to take it in to have the refrigerant recovered. I have a recovery machine as well as the tank, full gauge set and a vacuum pump to do AC work.

I think that most shop will charge you a 1/2 hours of billable mechanic time to have the refrigerant recovered. They will keep the refrigerant, not unless you want to buy the tank which is around a 100 bucks on ebay.

X53Jay4.8is 06-14-2015 07:22 AM

Depending on the age and miles of the compressor unit I would replace the whole unit as opposed to just a clutch change.

bcolins 06-17-2015 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axgordon (Post 1041316)
As promised! This procedure worked great on my car, as well on one of my coworkers car. Both were 2003 with same type compressors. Please note that compressor shown in the pictures - also from 2003 3.0 which was replaced by the local shop for the same reason. I was to late to advise owner on this repair.

Steps:
1. Remove radiator fan and shroud
2. Remove splash pan
3. Remove AC belt
4. Unscrew torx bolt on the front of the compressor clutch and remove clutch plate. It comes out easily. Be careful not lo lose thin spacer washer / washers. Some may stay in the clutch plate and some may stick to the end of the shaft.
5.Remove snap ring that hold the clutch hub / bearing and pry it off. Worked off carefully using two large flat screwdrivers or small pry bars. Needs little extra effort here, but it will come out.
6.Pry off thermal fuse cover on the clutch coil. It will break in pieces. No worries here.
7. With exacto knife, scrape insulation from coil wires right next to the crimp connectors and solder piece of wire between them. Ignore / break / remove thermal fuse. You can safely leave without it.
8. Verify that circuit is restored using multimeter, or run DIS diagnostic.
9. Seal area with silicone sealer to prevent corrosion.
10. Re assemble compressor clutch.
11. Re-install belt, fan and splash pan
12. Enjoy working AC.

So, you didn't replace anything? You just bridged the thermal fuse?

axgordon 06-17-2015 07:38 PM

Yes! Just bridged thermal fuse. Please use common sense and asses condition of the clutch and compressor for any other potential problems such us clutch bearing for excessive wear and coil for sings of burning. Did compressor made any noises prior to failing. Also, you may use ohmmeter to confirm issue with blown thermal fuse. Let me know if you have any other questions.

ants_oz 06-17-2015 09:27 PM

Instead of just bridging the terminals, why not solder in a new thermal fuse if that is the problem? Once the rating is determined, they are only a couple of dollars at any decent electronics store...

David.X5 06-17-2015 09:53 PM

If someone can post better pictures of the part number on the thermal fuse, I will try to track a source down.

axgordon 06-18-2015 11:16 AM

3 Attachment(s)
@Trader4 – who needs thermal fuse behind compressor clutch? Just kidding;)
Now with all seriousness:
With over 35 years, experience working with cars and electrical / electronic equipment I (I am not forcing my opinion on everyone here) felt that bypassing thermal fuse in this particular situation is acceptable risk. Here are my points:
1. I did not see thermal fuses in the AC clutches until 21st century (Possibly it just me).
2. I did not research this, but my best guess for why it is there – avoiding clutch seizure after prolonged slippage. In this case scenario, AC belt will disintegrate and potentially damage other components. Giving this potential unpleasant scenario – thermal fuse seems like a cheap insurance policy.
3. In reality, AC clutch may slip as of result of excessive wear, excessive system pressure due to improperly charged system or overheat due to inadequate ventilation (bad Auxiliary fan, etc.) and clutch bearing or compressor seizure which is rarely happens without warning sounds
4. As most of us on this forum, I pay close attention and promptly investigate any abnormal sounds and perform maintenance as required.
5. My AC system performed top notch prior to failure and after careful inspection I believe clutch circuit became open not due to the excessive heat, but internal fuse failure due to age and exposure to the environment it located.
6. The fuse used here is about half the size of common thermal fuses available at local components store (see picture). Due to limited space and difficulty to solder new fuse in the same location, I decided to cut corner and just bypass it:(
7. My original intent was to find new or used replacement coil, but two years later I have little motivation to touch it again;)

Now for those whose clutch failed and who must fix it right:
Pics below – compressor type, original fuse and size comparison between original and commonly used in US applications thermal fuses.

eBay link for the one that I believe will work here. Please do your own research before buying. Be very careful if you decide to solder it in – melted solder applied to the leads will be hot enough to blow new fuse.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pcs-ELCUT-UMI-Microtemp-Thermal-Fuse-Axial-Type-127-TF-Cutoff-187-2A-250V-/181635002957?
pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4a4a324d

bcolins 06-19-2015 02:50 PM

I did a few more tests a few days ago. My BMW DIS indicated that I had a clutch (magnetic coupling) problem, or.,...that it was Inactive. I cut the wire (actually was already cut,...with a crimped connector,...so I just undid the crimped connector) and put 12 volts directly to the clutch,....nothing happened. I checked the clutch wire to ground resistance with my ohmmeter and got no reading.

Lastly, I tried turning the center portion of the compressor clutch assembly, and was not able to turn it. Thinking this could mean that the compressor came apart and is seized,...which perhaps in turn blew the thermal fuse,.....there was some clattering from the area of the compressor for a few seconds while it was idling in front of my garage,.....I shut it off fairly quickly to do a visual,...saw nothing,....restarted,.....no noise now,....also no A/C When I ran a quick errand.

BTW, I duplicated all the above proceedures on my Land Rover. Disconnected the compressor from its power lead,....provided 12 volts directly to the compressor and it clicked on nicely,...also was able to turn the center portion of the compressor/clutch with little effort.

axgordon 06-19-2015 03:27 PM

Sorry. Sounds like you need new compressor. What year is your X? Engine size? Please update your signature with details.

caseyjay 08-30-2015 09:39 AM

I've just replaced my coil pack and fired up initially, all appears working but after a 20 min test drive, fuse #48 blows. I thought clutch was incorrectly gapped (too close), so put in a shim to give a 0.4mm gap but fuse has gone again.

I note my replacement didn't have this thermal fuse, is it a requirement? would it blow the circuit? thx

it appears I had frayed wiring from coil which was grounding on compressor causing the short...

upallnight 08-30-2015 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axgordon (Post 1041934)
Sorry. Sounds like you need new compressor. What year is your X? Engine size? Please update your signature with details.

If the compressor seized, you will need to flush out the entire system to remove any debris in the system. You will need to replace the receiver/dryer. Not doing this will only cause the ac system to suffer another failure.

zboost 07-22-2019 08:41 AM

Bumping an old thread but my AC has problems.

3.0d facelift, compressor starts only after kickdown is performed (3000 rpm). And it really blows cold air after that nicely, but if you try to turn the AC on idle, pressing the flake does nothing, the hot air continues to blow. I guess the problem is in the clutch, right?

wpoll 07-22-2019 04:36 PM

Have you verified that the aux fan is working? Symptoms sound like aux fan isn't working....

zboost 07-23-2019 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wpoll (Post 1166381)
Have you verified that the aux fan is working? Symptoms sound like aux fan isn't working....

Aux fan is replaced with new recently. AC was working even with the old non working aux fan. I just found out the problem is not connected with the rpms or even the clutch. It just works intermittently. If it starts it alwaya works through the day. It just doesn't want to start in the beginning. Dunno if this could be a sensor or something. Freon is also filled up to maximum in the system.

upallnight 07-23-2019 06:54 PM

Do you have a variable displacement compressor? The valve is set so that there is the least amount of drag on the engine when it is at idle. Could be that the solenoid that control the valve is not allowing the compressor to go to it max displacement so refrigerant is not being pumped through the system.

zboost 07-24-2019 02:55 AM

I have no clue about a solenoid valve on the compressor. If there is such present it's plausible. The system is behaving strange, I've tried both to start it using INPA diagnostic, and it just doesn't want to, and if you drive a bit and it just starts randomly, after that you have all the cold air in the world. Diagnostic says IHKA is working correctly and the signal is given for a start when you press the flake. But neither the AUX fan, or compressor starts. No error codes as well are present.
So far I've eliminated the following:
  • AUX fan (replaced with new)
  • IHKA control unit (has been replaced in 2011 by the previous owner with brand new)
  • Not enough freon or pressure (system was filled and tested in the dealership for leaks)
  • Compressor clutch (it doesn't make sense to behave like this if it's bad)

Will check compressor ground when we lift the car next week. It could be some kind of sensor maybe...?

zboost 07-25-2019 02:29 AM

After some more observation the problem seems to be the variable compressor valve/solenoid as symptoms are a lot similar to all with that - when car has stayed for a while, cold starts after 5-10 minutes of driving, or driving in high rpms sometimes manages to build the pressure. The AUX fan doesn't kick in until the cold starts blowing, and compressor compressing.

amebb 08-23-2023 09:51 AM

Sorry for bring this old thread back up again.



I have an issue with my AC compressor. The solenoid is not working. I have checked the connections etc and all is good. The issue is with the AC Compressor clutch.


Now, my issue is that I can not remove the AC clutch hex screw. Every time i undo the screw (Anti clock wise turning) the compressor pulley turns too.


The compressor is still in the car and I am thinking of working without removing the compressor.
I have tried using something to grip the pulley and then turn the hex bolt but it does not want to move.


Any ideas and help much appreciated.




Thank you

80stech 08-23-2023 01:16 PM

There are usually some special tools involved in removing and installing the clutch.

caseyjay 08-23-2023 01:55 PM

I had to replace a coil in situ and used a self-locking oil filter wrench to hold the pulley, levered against the body it would tighten its grip as I undid the bolt, freeing up both hands for the job (breaker bar).

Or a strap wrench, or right angle impact wrench as there is not much room down there.

Recently replaced whole compressor (variable displacement Calsonic) with a reconditioned one, and had to swap the pulleys (different # grooves) on the bench - in both cases I held pulley in my hand and an 18v impact driver did the job in a second...


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