Originally Posted by Takimo (Post 1041372)

another issue again, so i went to my garage to diagnose a/c issue, he told me there no leak, but the main reason why i dont get cold air is because my climate control only send 4volt to the compressor and it doesnt get enought electricity to work... anyone have a DIY solution?? beside replacing this 1000$ shit

+

he also told me, my aux fan is dead, is it a repair ASAP or no ?

Originally Posted by Takimo (Post 1041439)

Because he told me i need to replace climate control which is around 1k...

Originally Posted by Takimo (Post 1041852)

is it possible that the ecu send a sginal to stop a/c when it detect a broken aux fan ?

Originally Posted by Takimo (Post 1041439)

Because he told me i need to replace climate control which is around 1k...

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042461)

Why can't you still do this with the X5? Hook up 12V to the compressor,
take the car for a drive, which provides the necessary cooling for
the condenser. If it blows cold air, the system is working. Should
work, no?

Originally Posted by StephenVA (Post 1042502)

bcredliner

Can you post the steps to test the aux fan using the IMPA or other software, so the OP can get the right procedures? A few screen shots will help here also.
I do not think some of our newer readers understand that the on-board computer has built tests that will fire up devices, switches, sensors, relays, etc. All of which need a computer to send the signal not a $50 OBDII generic code puller.

Originally Posted by ants_oz (Post 1042507)

Question - does the AC clutch take a 12v feed? It is not unusual at all for automotive components in modern vehicles to use voltages less than 12v. Applying 12v directly to a lower voltage component can render it a paperweight.

Originally Posted by bcredliner (Post 1042513)

No need to test the clutch you can see and hear if it engages when you turn on the air.

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042515)

If the clutch doesn't engage when you turn on the air, it doesn't
tell you anything about the clutch. It could be the clutch, or it
could be the clutch isn't getting 12V, for a whole bunch of reasons.
Ultimately you may have good reason to test it.

Originally Posted by ants_oz (Post 1042516)

While that is true, my point is somewhat different - there are people talking about applying 12v directly to the clutch to check whether or not it WILL engage.

If the clutch is not engaging, is it that the clutch is stuffed, or is it that there is another part of the system preventing it from engaging?

THAT is what I took from the discussion around applying 12v to it.

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042501)

The point was, you posted this:

"In the good old days you would just jump 12V to the compressor to confirm its ability to function. Now days all parts up stream must be working before system tests will complete"

So, again, shade tree or whatever you want to call that test that you
could do in the past, AFAIK you can still do it with the X5 today. Your
statement implies that it can't be done.

"From you previous posts I see that you are taking my advice about not fixing stuffs that breaks on your X"

No idea what that refers to or means.

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042540)

Attempt at diversion detected. Attempt at diversion rejected.
Your statement that I responded to wasn't the above, it
was this:

"In the good old days you would just jump 12V to the compressor to confirm its ability to function. Now days all parts up stream must be working before system tests will complete."

So, stop lying. And all I said in response to that was that AFAIK,
you can still just jump 12V to the compressor as a test, just like
you could in the past. I thought it important to clarify, for people
like the OP who are seeking help in how to diagnose, how the AC
system works, etc. I didn't get nasty, didn't take shots at you.

And now you want to take cheap shots at me? Owners that maintain
cars like me? YOU don't even understand how the AC clutch works
with the rest of the system, as evidenced by the above. And when
you post something here that's incorrect, when someone points
that out so that others won't be mislead, instead of just correcting
what you said, you deny and try to divert. And now
you want to drag DISA in here? Yeah, I've driven it for months
with the DISA inoperative because I understand what the DISA
does and doesn't do. I made that call. Same thing with the aux
fan. It's the third fan in the car and I'm rather tired of paying
$450 for a new piece of junk one. It's a terrible idea, putting
electronic components, unprotected, in one of the worst environments
possible. So, in the summer I don't have cool air for a minute
when stopped at a light. For me, that's an acceptable tradeoff.
And maybe the X is the only car you have, you use it to haul
your boss around in or you're deeply in love with it. In my case,
the X is a seconday service vehicle I use primarily when I need to
haul something, to go to ski resorts, etc. It's only worth a few
thousand bucks, I'm not too keen on pouring money into a high
mileage, 13 year old vehicle that's only worth a few thousand
bucks, for non-essential items.

Further, what I learned from the above directly contradicts what
others here have claimed. For example, some have claimed that
the AC will not run at all without an operating fan. I think 2 years
experience that proves that wrong is useful information for
anyone trying to understand how the system really works.
Same thing with DISA. It's useful info, because some people
thing that without a functioning DISA, the car won't run or
will run poorly. Apparently that kind of useful information
upsets some people here, like you.

Like I've told others here, your car, your money, your choices.

But just man up to what you actually posted, instead of taking
cheap shots and starting a divisive argument.

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042553)

Yes, I see now that you didn't make the post that I attributed to you, so
I apologize for that. You could have simply pointed that out a couple
posts ago, when I first replied, instead of starting personal attacks.

As to posting pictures, the fan is in the car, I'm not going to tear it
out just to post pics. And pics aren't likely to do much to solve
the question of what exactly failed.

"So when you decided to get rid of the X and sell it to a new X owner are you going to replace the DISA valve and Aux Fan? Probably not and probably won't tell the new owner about these two problems. "

And there you go again, with more totally unsupported personal attacks.
Is that what this forum is about now? As to lacking power in the
mid-range, you're once again in over your head. I've seen absolutely
no noticeable difference in performance with the DISA working or
disabled. I have seen others here report the same thing. Are you
going to personally attack them too?

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042553)

Yes, I see now that you didn't make the post that I attributed to you, so
I apologize for that. You could have simply pointed that out a couple
posts ago, when I first replied, instead of starting personal attacks.

As to posting pictures, the fan is in the car, I'm not going to tear it
out just to post pics. And pics aren't likely to do much to solve
the question of what exactly failed.

"So when you decided to get rid of the X and sell it to a new X owner are you going to replace the DISA valve and Aux Fan? Probably not and probably won't tell the new owner about these two problems. "

And there you go again, with more totally unsupported personal attacks.
Is that what this forum is about now? As to lacking power in the
mid-range, you're once again in over your head. I've seen absolutely
no noticeable difference in performance with the DISA working or
disabled. I have seen others here report the same thing. Are you
going to personally attack them too?

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042540)

Attempt at diversion detected. Attempt at diversion rejected.
Your statement that I responded to wasn't the above, it
was this:

"In the good old days you would just jump 12V to the compressor to confirm its ability to function. Now days all parts up stream must be working before system tests will complete."

So, stop lying.

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042560)

Figures that you'd pile on, join in and expand the attacks into new
areas. Overheating? Who should I believe, you or my own eyes?
I've driven the X5 here in the environment I use it in and I've
never had the temp gauge go above normal. NEVER. I've seen
other folks report the same thing.

"New Jersey is cold country so the auxiliary fan is less critical than an area that is consistently hot in the summer. "

Wow, you figured that out? I suppose I should replace that $450
fan so it can fail again just in case the car somehow winds up in
Phoenix just to make you and upallnight happy.

Watched your video link. It's pretty much OK, except he claims
that the DISA improves low and high end performance. I recall
Bentley saying it increased mid-range performance. He's wrong
about the gasket not being replaceable separately. I have one
on the car, they are available from a variety of sources.

Since you want to drag your electric fan conversion into it,
I never said it would not work in place of the mechanical fan.
I said that I think your claim of it being a miracle 5 or 10hp
boost in available power is nuts and I showed you what a
10hp fan actually looks like. It wasn't a typical attic fan,
it was a whopping huge one like 5 ft in diameter.
You may think I'm an idiot, but at least I can easily get the
X5 fan off with a good old 1 1/4" wrench, how about that
for mechanical skills?

I see your less than a year old electric fan conversion recently
blew up, so IDK why about this you're bragging. My stock, original mechanical fan is still running fine.

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042572)

Really? Let's review. I posted:

"Why can't you still do this with the X5? Hook up 12V to the compressor,
take the car for a drive, which provides the necessary cooling for
the condenser. If it blows cold air, the system is working. Should
work, no?"

You replied:

"Another shade tree mechanic fix. Fix it right or don't fix it at all. From you previous posts I see that you are taking my advice about not fixing stuffs that breaks on your X."

My post said nothing about what the final solution is. It was not
a "fix", it was a test suggestion. In fact, I only made the post to
clarify StephenVa's post that said you can't do this test with an X5
like you could in other cars. And to that you started the attack by
calling me a "shade tree mechanic" and making snide remarks.
And you are lying when you imply that I ever suggested anything
like that as a "fix".

It's a curious thing. I get jumped on by you. Yet in
another recent thread, there were a couple of buffoons claiming
that it was peachy keen to go ahead and change an alternator
without first disconnecting the battery. He even had a picture
of the energized alternator cable suspended right in the work
area.l Now *that* is something worthy of correcting, worthy of
warning, interjecting. Yet, guys like you were silent on that.
But I'm the shade tree mechanic. Go figure.

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1042569)

:popcorn:

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042578)

You can't find your own posts now? Denying you made it?
The posts I quoted are right here, in this thread.

#23 Where I said:

"Why can't you still do this with the X5? Hook up 12V to the compressor,
take the car for a drive, which provides the necessary cooling for
the condenser. If it blows cold air, the system is working. Should
work, no? "

#24, Where you started the attack. You quoted my post above,
and said:

"Another shade tree mechanic fix. Fix it right or don't fix it at all. From you previous posts I see that you are taking my advice about not fixing stuffs that breaks on your X."

Just you, in your own words. And it's an obvious attack based on
a lie, because hooking 12V up was for a *test*. StephenVA claimed
that you can't do that test with the X5, like you could with older
cars. I thought it should be clarified, so I replied. Neither
Stephen or I ever suggested in any way that it was a *fix*.

Feel free to apologize at any time.

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1042467)

This is just a test to see if the clutch engages and the system has the correct amount of refrigerant. You should not drive with the car set up like this since the system is designed to cycle off and on. With 12 volts jumped to the compressor, you eliminate the cycling of the system off and on. If he has a bad aux fan the high side pressure will build to the point that you can blow out the condensor coil or a refrigerant hose. The high side sensor prevent this from occurring, but it won't do this if you have the system jumped.

Another shade tree mechanic fix. Fix it right or don't fix it at all. From you previous posts I see that you are taking my advice about not fixing stuffs that breaks on your X.

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1042522)

Nope, my statement and explanation implies that this should only be done only as a test. It should not be considered a FIX or a work around to get back AC in the car without fixing the real problem.

Let See my statement was Fix it right or don't fix it.
You have a broken DISA valve that you know of, but didn't fix but still drive the X.
You have a broken Aux Fan that you know of, but didn't fix but still drive the X.

Glad I'm no longer in the market for a X. With owners that maintain cars like you I can see why there are so many noobs coming on this forum after purchasing a use X.

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042577)

I never said anyone needs to accept my experience as universally
applicable. Do I need to add that as a disclaimer now to every post?
The video claims DISA is there for performance at the low and high end.
Bentley says it's to improve mid-range performance. All I can tell
you is that I couldn't see any *noticeable* difference in performance
with the DISA operational or not. I've seen others here post the same
thing. Your mileage claim is a new one and IDK what you're basing
that on. I did not see any difference in mileage. And I don't see
the harm in others hearing that. IMO, the DISA is like an appendix,
a wee little refinement that gives some minimal benefit that typical
drivers will never see. They will however see all the repair bills
associated with the added complexity. Others here have reported
exactly the same thing, why don't you start correcting them?

The 10hp fan is indeed pretty funny. It takes a whopping big fan moving
a whole lot of air to consume 10hp. It's the power of a lawn tractor.
If you want to believe that little mechanical X5 fan is using all that
power, be my guest. It would for sure make BMW pretty stupid.
I mean they are doing anything and everything, desperate to get
even a tiny boost in MPG for decades, yet they used a mechanical
fan that sucks up 10hp, about 20% of what the vehicle uses on
the highway. Go figure.

Removing the fan, you do it your way, I'll do it mine. You think a
water pump is fragile and it's going to be easily damaged. Can you
point us to one person here who damaged the WP removing the fan?
Lots of people are just using the 1 1/4" wrench and hammer, where
are all the failures? Others can judge for themselves. And I've said
many times, your car, your dollars, your choice.

Electric fan didn't blow up, just the controller, not much difference
IMO. It didn't last a year, my mechanical fan is original. And it's
news to me that the stock cooling system in the BMW is inadequate.
Maybe you should take that up with and explain it to BMW. They
are supposed to build the ultimate driving machine, yet they
produced millions of vehicles with inadequate engine cooling so
that you need to remove the stock fan?

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042685)

Again, read what I actually wrote. I said that Bentley says the DISA
is there to increase mid-range performance. I said that I don't notice
any difference in performance. The two are not inconsistent. It could
boost performance by a small amount. That is enough to boost
some claimed specs and obviously would impress someone like you,
but it's not noticeable to me in everyday driving. And as I've said,
others here have also said they don't see any difference in performance
either, so why don't you jump on them too? Have you even
tried driving the X5 with the DISA disconnected? What is the
source for your claim that the DISA affects mileage?

Reduced mileage due to an inoperative DISA is what *you*
claimed. First time I've ever heard that and knowing what the
DISA does, it seems unlikely. It seems more likely that a non-working
DISA could actually increase gas mileage. DISA operates by tuning the
intake so you can cram a little more fuel/air mix into the engine.
It decrease the resistance to airflow in the intake.
From what I see, no reason to believe that translates into
increased mileage, just increased performance because you
get more fuel/air in there. More in, you're still having to put extra
gas in to get that performance.

"Your opinion the controller is the same as a fan failure is ludicrous."

You put in a new electric fan system. Whether the fan or the controller
fried in under a year is largely irrelevant. The system still failed.
My stock mechanical fan is still going fine at 160K.


"I'm not going to address your attic fan or a lawn tractor blade bs. If readers know the earth isn't flat they know that means nothing more than you know attic fans and lawn tractors exist."

You just did address it. What you mean is you can't explain how
that small mechanical X5 fan could possibly consume 10hp. That's
why what a real 10hp fan looks like is relevant. It has a fan blade
that is 5 ft in diameter and it moves 66,000 cfm. And again, it's
not an attic fan. For anyone interested, here it is:

DAYTON Med Duty Fan,66,186 cfm,208-230/460V - Belt Drive Exhaust Fans w/Drive Package - 7M872|7M872 - Grainger Industrial Supply

Now *that* is a 10hp fan.

The BMW mechanical fan isn't that. It's not even a home central
air AC condenser fan size. Those are 1/4 to 1/3 hp, drive a
fan blade many 3x the size of the x5 fan and they move
a whole lot of air. So I say physics
says your hp savings are an order of magnitude less than 10hp.
The other thing that makes no sense is that if that fan were
using anywhere near 10hp, then it would be using ~20%
of the hp that the X5 takes cruising down the highway.

Just the facts.

Originally Posted by StephenVA (Post 1042773)

Guys let it go......
If someone approaches a problem with our 10+ year old vehicles with a ROI in mind, the financial return only shows that quick fixes, ignore, band aid repairs, etc. with no thought to longevity would be a rational approach.

I personally like everything to function as designed or to improve it to 2015 technology on my BMWs. Everyone gets to choose as owners. Trust me the coat hanger solutions will be ever more common as these SAVs to onwards to 15 years. The scrap yards will be full of them as repairs will exceed retail value. The Dallas Car Sharks types will be buying X5s for $1500 and butchering them to flip them

Originally Posted by trader4 (Post 1042770)

My driving for a year without an operating DISA with no noticeable
difference in performance, the car running perfectly, is my evidence
that the DISA isn't a critical item. So is Bentley's description of what
it does. That plus my understanding of the principles involved, how
it works, leads me to believe it's non-essential. So, I just stated that
for anyone that's interested. Others have also reported that whether
the DISA was operating or not, they didn't notice any difference.
Have *you* driven you car with it operating, non-operating? IF not
how would you even know?


"The reason why mileage will decrease is that it will take more go pedal to reach and maintain the same speed if the DISA valve is malfunctioning. Less go pedal mean less fuel used"

Again, pulled from thin air without regard to how the DISA operates.
You're making the fundamental mistake that increased performance
means increased performance for free. The DISA tunes the intake
so that you can cram more air and fuel into it. The air is free, the
fuel is not. Just physics.


"should not be used to state replacing the DISA valve is not important. If for no other reason than the pin that goes through the flap can come loose and get into the engine the valve should be replaced as soon as it begins to malfunction. "

Yes, a loose pin is one common malfunction, but there are others.
I assume that people here have some common sense. If you're
DISA is rattling away and has a loose pin it would be pretty dumb
to drive it that way. I never said to do that. I said that with it
not operating I saw no difference in performance. How that gets
translated into driving around with a loose pin, IDK.



"To a significant level the longevity of the fan or the controller is not important to me. "

Your car, your money, your choice. One year after all that work,
doesn't sound so good to me. My stock fan is working fine at 160K miles.

"My guess is you wouldn't know Physics from the back end of a donkey. Accepting you do, I will endorse your claim of what I view as a fantasy even in la la land if you provide the equation proving your claim. That said, your attic fan and lawn tractor comparison is pure nonsense. It doesn't take 10 horsepower to turn an attic fan. The reason they use a that much power is so the motor doesn't have to work hard to turn the blade and so it will last 10+ years."

Now it's very interesting that you claim I don't understand physics
when you just showed everyone here that it's actually *you* who
doesn't understand physics. First, one more time, that fan link I gave
you for a 10hp fan is not an "attic fan". Did you even look at it?
Good grief. A typical attic fan is a small fractional hp motor.
Here is a typical one, it has a 14" fan, moves 1600 cfm and costs $100:

Broan 1600 CFM Power Gable Mount Attic Ventilator-35316 - The Home Depot


That huge *10 hp industrial fan* I showed you is for moving air in a huge
warehouse or similar application. It has a 5 ft fan, moves 66,000 cfm
and costs $4700:

DAYTON Med Duty Fan,66,186 cfm,208-230/460V - Belt Drive Exhaust Fans w/Drive Package - 7M872|7M872 - Grainger Industrial Supply



And now as to the physics, the hp required to move a given amount of air
depends on the volume of air moved, the pressure across the fan, etc.
They size the motor to the fan. No one puts a grossly oversized
10hp fan in an attic fan to make it last longer, that is pure BS that
you just made up. OK, so now let's do some basic physics. The
10hp industrial fan moves 66,000 CFM, the Broan attic fan moves 1,600
That a factor of 41 difference. Take the 10hp and divide it by 41 and
what do you have? 1/4 hp and that's exactly what that attic fan has,
a small fractional hp motor. That's physics for you. The motor power
required is sized to the load. Now answer the simple question,
what size and capacity fan is the X5 closer to? The attic fan or
the 10hp industrial fan?

"It does not take 10 hp to turn a lawn tractor blade."

I never said it did. I only used that as a simple reference to show
what 10hp can really do. Are you going to tell us that X5 stock
fan needs the same amount of power as a lawn tractor mowing
grass?

I won't put you on the list of people to ignore. That's the choice
of the ignorant who are afraid of free speech.

Originally Posted by Takimo (Post 1041372)

another issue again, so i went to my garage to diagnose a/c issue, he told me there no leak, but the main reason why i dont get cold air is because my climate control only send 4volt to the compressor and it doesnt get enought electricity to work... anyone have a DIY solution?? beside replacing this 1000$ shit

+

he also told me, my aux fan is dead, is it a repair ASAP or no ?