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Random M54 Misfire on Random Cold Start checklist...PROBABLY SOLVED
UPDATE: CODES POSTED 3/29/16 on Page 3!!!
UPDATE #2: Maintenance performed on 4/18/16 - Marking Thread title to "probably solved" as it looks like probably the times it has happened have been most likely my own error - Thought I'd throw up a thread for this although I have yet to scan the X with DIS (will do so in the next day or two) - Second time in a year that upon first cold start in the morning leaving for work, while I normally wait for the high idle to die down a bit before I start driving, I start to feel a bit of vibration in the car, then some sputtering under the hood giving a misfire, then SES light is on, car runs like crap - Last time it happened I drove 5 mins down the road to Panera to get coffee, turned off the X, came back out, started up and 100% fine, no SES and running perfectly - This time I went to the end of my driveway, turned it off, and restarted the X, running perfectly fine from there on out -Last time I scanned it looked like a few misfire codes, nothing else crazy, but I just cleared them and ignored it to see if it happened again (10 months ago) There is currently 82k miles on the X, it had about 1/4 tank in it today, always at Shell (93) stations but I only fill up once every 3 weeks or so, maintenance items completed to date since I've taken ownership: -Plugs replaced with NGK's 2 years ago -DISA rebuild kit from GAS with new seal -Cleaned throttle body last year after CCV job while it was out -Lower intake elbow -Have an AFE intake with Dry filter and that was last cleaned last year I run Techron through the tank every 6 months or so, along with Lucas UCL when I can. I have a Mahle fuel filter on my workbench waiting to go in, and an oil change to do. Battery is a 3.8 year old Bosch 900 CCA from Pep Boys that the PO put in before he sold the X, no charging issues. Any thoughts? I may take to my local indy who has Autologic to diagnose, with the cold weather coming I may have them perform my winter maintenance and solve this issue so I'm not worrying about it. |
Is it a random misfire or cylinder specific? Coils can give up the ghost at this age/mileage sometimes.
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On first blush, sounds like a vacuum leak to me, RB. I had the same problem once and found I had a very small crack in my intake boot, as well as a cracked line from the SAP to the intake manifold. I'm sure lots of others can share their experience as well.
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id say coils but this was the start of my problems when my fuel pump went..
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Check this thread over on E46fanatics: Cold weather misfires and CEL, common issues $50 fix! - E46Fanatics
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Thanks for the link to E46F, I will check it out. Wouldn't a vaccuum leak happen more often however with the misfire? I changed that lower intake elbow so thats not it, but i'm not discounting a vaccuum leak. And probably worst case scenario I'm thinking fuel pump but I'd think that would happen more often as well. |
I had similar issue a few months after replacing the intake elbow and it turned out to be some of the related vacuum hoses and a cracked vacuum fitting. As the engine transitioned off cold start, it would stumble. Once fully warmed up, it ran better, but still with a bit of a rough idle. I agree with crystalworks on the coils too. My two replacements came at 124,000 miles on the e53, but my wife's e46 had three go bad at 100,000 miles.
2002 X5 3.0 290,000 miles 2004 325i 123,000 miles |
^When I last had the intake elbow those 2 hoses and the fitting looked ok on reinstall, I'll give those a look, Gary what was your cracked vaccuum hose from the SAP to the manifold so I can look at that too?
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^ In a conference call with the Fatherland ATM, but I'll get you the details ASAP.
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The line I replaced is #3 and #4 in the drawing. You'll most likely need to remove the Cabin Air Filter Housing to get to the hose connection on the back of the intake manifold.
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I will check that line out later on and my fittings at the intake elbow as well, thanks Gary!
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I don't know about emissions regulations in Jersey, but down here in Cakalaka, we don't have them, so I'll most likely be removing my SAP soon. Doing so would allow me to cap off at the valve on the manifold, and remove the vacuum hose altogether. Don't worry, we keep our polluted air to ourselves down here... :rofl:
BTW: The first poster to say anything about BMW and emissions rigging gets blocked for life. jus' sayin'... :D |
^Now that's what I'm talking about! AFAIK, I will also check the coilpacks for any oil in the spark plug wells indicating a leaking VCG. My miles are fairly low at 82k but at 12 years old I am starting to wonder if I am on borrowed time with an original one.
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^ Never done the VCG? Piece of cake!!! Just be careful with that same vacuum hose when you put the cover back on. If you're not careful, that hose can get trapped between your new gasket and the head, causing not only vacuum issues, but a nasty oil leak. Ask me how I know... :cool:
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Well the SAP hard line looks fine, the vaccuum section is a bit crumbly but no visible leaks (I'll prob replace it with fresh line anyway to the hard pipe), the VCG running my hand all around the front and sides is dry, although I need to get my stool out and check the back.
I'll have to scan the X this weekend for misfires and check those cylinders coil packs to see if any oil pooled in the spark plug holes perhaps, and if not but it registered a misfire on those cylinders I may R&R the corresponding culprit coilpacks. Nothing on the intake elbow side but again another vac line I may replace preventatively as its starting to crumble I'm guessing if it was anything fuel pump related there might be a related fuel supply code thrown? The X rode fine all the way home again as well. |
*Update*
Just updating this thread to keep all symptoms together, so when I do fix the problem I can mark the solution and mark the thread as fixed. Since this thread started I have not had the issue again - Admittedly I have been too lazy to throw the batt charger on and scan the X lately as well, life gets in the way and when the issue doesn't present itself it doesn't bother me as much. Went to start up today, 37 degrees in garage - My X has been sitting since Saturday afternoon in the garage after I washed it on the weekend - Started up, started sounding lumpy right away, went through the 30 seconds or so of the high idle/SAI pump, then afterwards it got lumpier, and threw the SES light - my wife even said "is it supposed to sound like that", so she even noticed - I hate doing this on a completely cold engine, but after the 30-45 seconds, once I saw the SES and continued rough running idle, I shut the X and immediately started it back up. Just like last time, re-started completely fine, no lumpiness or rough idle, and SES light was gone immediately. Something is throwing a code but is back to normal after a quick shut down and re-start - I don't smell the fuel in the cabin indicating a leakdown from a faulty injector, although its something I will check out to be sure they aren't leaking down after a few days - If it was coil-packs I would assume the misfires to occur frequently, and not just after sitting for a few days. Battery voltage is still fine when the X is running, pegged around 13.5v when driving and the battery is new (and to be honest it happened twice before I changed the battery in December) I'll post updates as I check the codes its been throwing. |
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*Update Again*
I'm just bumping this thread to keep it active until I find the solution - Again I washed the car this weekend and only pulled it out of the garage to wash it yesterday, and pulled it back in to dry, so it ran for only about a minute each time since I parked it Friday night. Same symptom, lumpy as soon as it started like it was on 5 cylinder, after 30 seconds or so (SAI run time I believe), stayed lumpy and threw SES. Turned off, then started up again, idle is fine and SES is gone. I was starting to think it had to do with something getting wet on the X when I washed it, but I think its from the short run times when I wash the X (1 min or less) and then when I go to start up the 3rd time or so its lumpy? I'm starting to almost believe the leaky fuel injector theory, although my gas mileage is perfect. Will be due for a trip to the indy in a month or so (rear suspension, check of belts/coolant/water pump), I promise I will scan the X and post up what codes I've been throwing before then, lol. |
Most likely the short time you have the engine on and the engine is still in open loop. My E34 and many other people on the E34 board experience a flooded engine from just starting it up and moving it into the garage. That's why I don't start the X up and shut it off.
You can floor the car to go into a clear flood mode where the DME will not fire the injectors and clear any excessive gasoline in the cylinders. A engine will not start on wet gasoline, it needs the gasoline to be in a vapor. |
^What do you think is adequate time then, say perhaps a few mins of idle each time if I am just washing the car? I'm leaning towards that as well, and glad the E34 has something similar. I don't think its a defect or faulty part its just a byproduct of the short time it is started up a couple times, by the time I go to drive it, there is excess unburnt fuel.
I know if the injectors were leaking down i'd smell fuel vapor or so I've read - plus it would happen more often. |
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UPDATE: Brought my DIS Laptop to work today - here are the codes found - as they read verbatim on DIS:
F3 DME - Misfire, Cylinder 6 Combustion Miss with Cylinder Cutout (P1353 or P0306) -Fault is relevant to Exhaust Gas -Fault Filtered -Fault currently not present -Sporadic Fault INSTRUMENT - C7 IKE - Tank Sensor 1 (fuel pump side) Cleared them all and all gone except for this code (which I figured as it was a sporadic fault) 1E IHKA - Auxilary Water Pump - Short Circuit to Positive -Currently Present -Fault Frequency 255 So troubleshooting wise should I look at the following? -Fuel pump (isn't the tank sensor on the actual fuel pump?) -Check Cylinder 6 plug to see if its dry, if dry, swap coil pack to another cylinder, wait till it comes back - if coated in oil, perform VCG + Vanos service? I'm at 85k miles but my factory VCG is 13 years old. Anything else I'm missing? I may take to indy which will do compression test just to be sure nothing major - honestly the engine runs like a top and I've had this thread up for almost 6 months and its only happened 3 times |
I did not read the entire thread in detail, but came across a few things I wanted to comment on.
1. The I6 intake has 3 ports on the rear underside of the intake right near intake runner #6. Some of these ports have caps, some may be used for other things depending on the vehicle year and model. The vacuum caps split and leak and can do even fall off. HIGHLY recommend a good inspection and replacing all the vacuum caps on these ports. Your vehicle is 13 years old and the rubber parts typically last 8-10 years under the hood. See this picture - Intake Manifold and Vacuum Caps - E46Fanatics 2. You mentioned battery needing to be charged. In case you were unaware, BMW has the DME trigger the coils multiple times. This is a "Multiple Spark Discharge" feature just like the aftermarket ignition modules under the name of MSD. When the cranking Voltage drops too low, as a power saving measure the DME will disable this MSD feature. So it is possible your problem is aggravated by a weak/low battery. It may not be "caused" buy a weak/low battery, just aggravated or triggered by this. 3. You mentioned washing the vehicle before this problem happened. 2 things come to mind. Not sure if the E53 is a problem like the E70 where water can leak at the rear of the hood due to cracked and improperly sealed plastic cowling but maybe water is getting into and around the injector/coil or other connections at the rear of the engine. The other MAJOR problem theses engines have is they EASILY flood if the engine is started and the vehicle is just moved a few car lengths without letting the engine warm up for 3-4 minutes or at least driving around the block. The cylinder walls can be washed down easily and if the battery is a bit low and the DME disables the MSD function, you can EASILY have misfiring on start up like you mentioned about 1/2 way through the thread. 4. Last but not least, the tank level sensor and problems at 1/4 of a tank. I replace the fuel pumps in these vehicles by year 10 at the latest. The BMW fuel pumps are KNOWN to go soft and also fail as the brushes wear out. Not 100% sure on the E53, but on the E46 you can get a fuel pump and sender assembly for a decent price and it is a good piece of mind to have a new fuel pump so you do not get stranded on the road. If your wife drives the vehicle often, do this before she gets stranded, otherwise you will have a new Silver Honda Oddessy Minivan in the driveway shortly after the X5 leaves her stranded. |
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I really appreciate you chiming in and helping! |
Thanks for posting your problems. My e46 xi has started doing this a couple times this past winter. I have been reading so much stuff on e46f and thanks to jfoj, I think I got all of the answers in one post.
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Looks like I'll be replacing a fuel pump shortly. My 01 is at 146k miles on the original pump. RickyB, my bet is oil in the plug bore. |
I keep a spare fuel pump handy, (this also ensures the problem will never happen!! murphy's law!) I had issues with mine cutting out etc, but I suspected that the level sensor wasn't working properly. I have a spare pump so mine will never fail me now! lol, at least its an easy re and re from the back seat! :)
If you do your VCG its an easy job, the old gasket goes hard as rock, and might be tough to get off without a chisel or exacto blade. also, the spark plug holes have their own gaskets, my old ones left small washers on them. make sure you get the old ones off!. the vacuum lines around the back are brittle, and you should be careful when putting them back on! I was able to raise them up and hold them out of the way with masking tape so they didn't interfere with the new gasket! while you have the valve cover off, you might want to spray some degreaser on the exhaust manifold heat shields. keep em clean and all! good luck! :cool: |
Thanks guys! I'll be getting the vaccuum tubing and replacing the caps on the back of the intake manifold, as well as the entire run of vaccuum tube/hard line from the SAP to back of manifold as preventative. Also the vaccuum tube coming off the L connector on the lower intake elbow.
Will probably have time in the next day or two to pull #6 - would my VCG leak tell tale sign be oil on the coilpack or in the plug hole itself, or oil on the spark plug head once I remove it? I was thinking a wet plug, but wanted to be sure. If I do find a wet plug or see a leak at the back of the VCG, its also going to be rebuild the Vanos time as well :) Also I know its pricey but I may do the fuel pump preventatively anyway, the original is 13 years old and I don't want it to get me stranded - would rather do it with the fuel filter (which I've had on my workbench since October) and have peace of mind for another 10+ years |
Can you get a smoke test done anywhere near you. I know a guy in Farmindale LI that did it for me. Might a good idea to get this done before actually spending any on the parts canon.
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Vacuum leak discovery is time consuming. One quick trick that works is tapping in a simple vacuum gauge off an unregulated vacuum port on the intake. With the engine idling, wiggle, spray carb cleaner, pull on all the rubber lines, hoses that are attached to see if there are any quick changes to the readings.
The 3.0 valve cover is a simple affair with LOTS of documentation on best practices. Hell that cover has been around for more than a few years now. Easy 2 hr project. The real challenge is the thoughts of "While your in there........" The rough idle maybe nothing more than a fuel fouled plug that needs to come up to temp (600+) at the tip to begin to burn off the carbon fouling. Most plugs will "clear" themselves by bringing the RPMs to 2,500/3,000 a few times in neutral. Others require a hold at 3,000 for a minute or two to burn off all the fuel left in the combustion chamber. The miss firing may trigger a miss fire code which will clear after a few dozen starts or by using a code reader/clearer. |
I may have gotten off the wagon a bit - I have no vaccuum leaks now but want to preventatively replace some of the associated vaccuum tubing due to age - totally different issue
And the rough "washing machine idle followed by SES light" only has happened 4 times in the past year - apparently its a random Misfire on Cyl 6 with fuel cutoff - which could have its own symptom needing to be fixed, or as was mentioned earlier with jfoj - could be me just pulling the car out of the garage followed by pulling it in and not giving enough idle time to burn off the startup fuel that has primed in the rail, effectively flooding a cylinder. Will keep you guys posted but the VCG and vaccuum tubing/caps replacement was more of a "well its probably time to take care of these things" - but not necessarily 100% required in the moment. Besides oil changes and PS fluid reservoir and fluid change, I really haven't done any other maintenance in the past 2 years and she has been running great. |
I just went through a similar issue with my X5. The family complained that it was running like it had water in the gas (this has happened a couple of times to us) so I drove it for a week and it was running fine for me. Gave it back to them and the issues came back about a week later and stayed. It threw a bunch of codes (I wrote them down but I can't find them now) which I cleared and then it threw one code for a bad ignition coil on cylinder 1. I swapped it to cylinder 2, reset the CEL and got a new code for the coil on cylinder 2. I put in a new coil and the issue has been gone since.
I was worried that it was a vacuum leak as well but when I opened the oil fill the vacuum was strong. I had to replace the engine on my X5 and when I did it I missed plugging in the EGR vacuum line and I was getting all kinds of codes for lean cylinder 4. If it works sometimes and not others I am leaning towards it been electrical in nature. My e36 had a fuel pump go bad and the car was running like it had bad gas too. I replaced the fuel pump with a dealer fresh pump only to have that one go bad 2 weeks later. I though it "it couldn't be the new pump" but after million hours of trouble shooting that is exactly what it was. BMW at least gave me a new pump to replace the bad one but I didn't get paid for my wasted time...... Good Luck! |
Sounds like normal to me!
All the rubber and plastic parts are exposed to degradation due to exposure of heat/cold cycles and Ozone as most of our parts where not UV balanced so the deterioration is only going to get worse over time. I use Armor All on everything rubber or plastic and just let it sit for 24 Hrs and then wipe off with a micro fiber cloth to remove all the excess. Works perfect so far. But then I clean and apply it to the CV boots as well so I am Anal and excessive about cleaning. :D All of this compulsion creates one too many auto projects to keep up with also... I am detailing my M5 for a concourse this spring so I have to stay focused on one vehicle at a time for now. Now I am off to recheck my hand washing of all the brake parts prior to painting.:bustingup Good luck on the X5 but I think you know what your doing as always. If you pull the plugs you will see which one(s) is fouling. My bet is #4. |
Well since I am pretty thorough - I picked up a set of IX Iridium plugs from Pep Girls today (I love if I order online to pick up in store same day they give you 25% off coupon? lol!) for $36, probably will get a fresh set of 6 coils from FCP - again, age related items worry me even if they don't look like they are failing currently.
I will pull #6 before ordering the coils this weekend to see what the plug hole and plug looks like - probably #5 as well to compare them, and be sure I don't have a VCG leak (which will probably get addressed due to age in the next year or 2 anyway) Also replacing the vac line from lower intake elbow, and the entire hard line/vaccuum line from SAP to back of manifold, along with the associated vac hose back there and the 2 vaccuum caps just to cover my bases. Will update as I progress - has not happened again since, X is running fine. |
Maintenance over the Weekend
OK well I swapped out the following over the weekend while doing some of my "spring maintenance" - I still have to change the fuel filter and do an oil change soon but for the most part I think these random misfires were most likely what was mentioned earlier, cold starts that do not let the X run long enough and then on subsequent start, it floods and throws a misfire (which clears itself on restart)
Replaced this weekend: -NGK "UP" plugs which I put in 3 years ago with Iridium IX plugs *Note all 6 cylinders were dry as a bone and all 6 plugs as well -Replaced original Bosch coils with updated OE Delphi coils Bosch coils looked ok, had some browning on the inner shield underneath the silver part, got a great price on the current coils (OE supplier for the M54 part # is a Delphi coil pack now if you check RealOEM)-Replaced the rubber hose off the lower intake elbow and the vacuum hose with OE braided cloth vacuum hose Both L connectors were in fine shape - the vacuum hose was especially brittle (part # 11657803732 sold in 1 meter sections from BMW) -Replaced the SAP line (sold as a complete assembly, diagram below), from the SAP to the back of the manifold Not the most fun job as its blind and not much space for your hands, but the vacuum line again was very brittle so it was time. -Also, while behind the manifold there is a check valve in line (#6 in the below diagram), there are 2 sections of vaccuum hose on it, I replaced both of those and replaced the check valve behind the manifold when complete -Lastly, replaced the vaccuum caps on the back of the manifold Its done totally blind - per the third diagram there are 3 total caps, 2 small and 1 larger cap, I could only feel 2 of them, and will try to find the 3rd one and replace it, they were pretty brittle as well and if there is a 3rd cap back there, it will bother me if I leave it If I can find and replace the 3rd vacuum cap, I will have preventatively replaced the causes of vaccuum leaks, which makes me feel better considering the age of rubber hoses/caps and vaccuum system components. All in all a very productive weekend and was glad to see 6 cylinders dry as I do not feel like doing the VCG and Vanos service right now. Thanks to all who chimed in on the thread - going forward I will be cognizant not to pull the car out of the garage and shut it down :D References: *Hose Elbow (lower intake elbow) #3 in this Diagram RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog *Vacuum hose Part #7 in this diagram (also good for replacing the small vacuum hose off the lower intake elbow) and SAP line #3, and vaccuum hose sections #7 off the small check valve (#6) behind the manifold) RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog *Vaccuum caps (behind intake manifold) #15 and #17 in this diagram RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog Reference Pic (borrowed from E46F) - Replaced #1 and #2 (caps), and the check valve/vaccuum hose sections are easily seen - replaced both sections of hose on either side of the check valve - the other open port in the picture is the port which the end of the SAP line joins to, so it is used on my car. I think perhaps I only have 2 vacuum caps on the back of the manifold then and got them both? http://i.imgur.com/GpQiol1.jpg |
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