Help needed - E53 3.0i cooling system pressure test
 

Sorry, dumb questions here. If I had the car in front of me I would not need to ask, but I'm trying to help my daughter from 200 miles away.

2001 X5 3.0i

It seems to be leaking coolant from somewhere. I'd like to pressure test it. How exactly does the pressure tester attach to these cars? I've done test on many other cars, so I know how it works, I just don't know what these BMW engineer geniuses did with the radiator cap. Is there one? Where is it (I told you these were dumb questions, but I will apologize again)? Will a standard cooling system pressure tester fit and work as it normally does?

Since I'll be telling my daughter what to do remotely, guesses or close-enough won't work. So please only respond regarding the 3.0, not the V8.

From a quick search on here (difficult with slow internet), it seems the entire cooling system on these cars may have been designed by the same guys that did the window regulators. No problem, I can fix anything, I just need some information. Thanks in advance.

Pressure testing is done with a cap that screws in to the expansion tank in place of the OE cap. I'm sorry I don't remember what PSI the system should hold to verify functionality, but I'm sure someone will chime in with that.

Edit: Something like this kit was what we used at the shop.

http://www.sears.com/astro-pneumatic...SPM10526919919

about 15 PSI should be good test.

The coolant res cap is circled in green.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/v...psppdzxgh8.jpg

Thanks for the quick help.

First, on pressure, we're pretty sure there is a leak, so will not need to pressurize it too much to isolate it. 1 psi may well be enough.

The pressure testing kit is designed to attach the same way a radiator cap does (the standard type). My recollection is that the coolant reservoir cap there in Joshdub's photo is plastic, screws off, and is not at all like a radiator cap. So that will not help with the standard kit. May need to rig something up. This is so frustrating because I know I could do it in seconds if it were in front of me, but I am working through a flaky interweb connection and doing it remotely, and just going off my daughter's description.

Can anyone confirm if/where a traditional radiator cap exists on this car. It sounds like there is not one, right? We'll need to MacGuyver something to get the standard (PepBoys, Autozone, O'Reilly's all nearby, but I expect they're all standard types, not for this 2-bar plastic expansion tank cap) type to fit.

Update - the existence of this product:
Stant® 12030 - BMW X5 2001 Cooling System Tester Adapter
... seems to suggest something will need to be rigged to the 2-bar plastic expansion tank cap. Right?

Yep, or buy a pressure tester cap/kit designed for European expansion tanks with no need to adapt. That's what I linked as an entire kit. Not sure what you will be able to find locally though at a standard "China Zone" type retailer.

I think this kit will work with the BMW tank?

Radiator Pressure Tester Kit

I have one of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7099-PROFESS...524908&vxp=mtr

You will still need a pump, but since I have several watercooled cars I have a nice pump. I would buy a quality tool instead of some WING WAng tools from Harbor Fright.

One on hand you want to help your daughter.

On the other hand, the consequence is severe (blown head gasket).
Best is for you to come over there or tow it to a trusted indy.

Upallnight,

Not sure why you have to bust on anyone that does not always buy name brand items. I fully understand and agree on engine sensors, even many "name brand" sensor can and are Asian counterfeits. You have to be very careful where you purchase sensors from to try and avoid counterfeits.

But as far as tools and other items, it boils down to how often you may actually use the tool or item as to what level of quality and durability is really needed. Many of the Harbor Freight and Asian built tools are fine for the DIY'er and even some hold up to pro use as well.

I cannot vouch for the Harbor Freight radiator pressure tester, but in general it looks to be pretty decent quality and the price is not overly cheap for what it includes, it is not a bad deal, but it is not $29.99 either. I would bet it is a decent tool, suggest for anyone that is interested to read the reviews and physically inspect the unit before they purchase it.

As for the other kit that crystalworks linked, this is a pretty nice kit, I have the exact same kit. I can tell you this much that there are even counterfeits or copies of the Astro Pneumatic kit available by different manufacturers. I originally ended up purchasing a PMD Products kit that looks the same and the Astro Pneumatic kit from Amazon for about 1/2 what the Astro Pneumatic product sold for. I receive the PMD Products kit, opened and inspected it and immediately returned it. It looked like the Astro Pneumatic kit, but the quality was by no means close at all.

I will say the Astro Pneumatic kit is a pretty decent kit and a good value and reasonable quality. :thumbup:

DO NOT buy PMD products as they are very cheap and lower quality items that are often copies of other products available on the market.

I ordered the Astro Pneumatic kit and even ordered the 2 additional radiator adapters that the kit did not include and have a very comprehensive kit that does a very good job and is of very reasonable quality for the amount I use it. I also have an older Stant tester that was the defacto standard US tool for many years, but has since been left way behind due to all the newer design expansion tanks and radiators. I could purchase many adapters for the Stant unit, but it is not cost effective for the amount that I might use it.

Until you have personal experience on a specific product, I am not sure how you can continually condemn something you have never purchased or used.

It's one thing to caution someone on a products quality due to not being a known name brand item or its place of origin, its another thing to basically insinuate that anything manufactured in Asia or purchased from Harbor Freight is garbage, some items can be, some items are not. I shop at Harbor Freight from time to time and I steer away from questionable items unless I view the cost/benefit/usage worth the lower price.

I have a friend that loves the cheap Harbor Freight Circular Saws and Cut Off saws. He cuts a lot of stone and other things that can be very abrasive and as he found even the name brand items do not hold up to the abrasive dust very well, so why pay for a name brand item that will be consumed and be worn out in a short period of time when the cheaper Harbor Freight items last just as long in the adverse conditions. He knows he will dispose of the saws in a short period of time, it all came down to economics for him.

I didn't realised that my post was busting on you. I don't see on on my post of ever mention your name. Read the reviews of people that actually brought the tool. Lots of NEGATIVE review on the product.

Here some from their website.

Most Liked Negative Review

not good
This is an impressive package but the components are made so poorly that it shouldn't be sold. No matter how you apply the test adapter to the pump and radiator, it simply doesn't hold...
Read complete review

Comments about Pittsburgh Automotive Radiator Pressure Tester Kit:
I used epoxy to fix all the cracks, but will still never test up to 16 or 17psi without another crack appearing.

Can't even use on a stant tester. All fittings can be used on others but they are also cheap and crack. Terrible product
BOTTOM LINE No, I would not recommend this to a friend
Was this review helpful? Yes / No - You may also flag this review

Comments about Pittsburgh Automotive Radiator Pressure Tester Kit:
If you buy this keep your receipt, the pump housing loves to crack and it will bleed pressure through the pump. Otherwise I love the product.

Comments about Pittsburgh Automotive Radiator Pressure Tester Kit:
So far I have found only ONE vehicle that this Radiator Pressure Testing Tool will work with. All others have no adaptor included in the kit to enable me to do a test. I am not talking about exotic cars and trucks in the least. I am talking about one of the Big Three's vehicles ( I work for a municipality) I also own one of this same manufacturers vehicles - a 2013, and it doesn't work on mine either. It was a waste of money!

Bought this to test coolant system on my 97 Corolla. The cap that is supposed to fit the car is too tight to press down. I didn't won't to force it because of risk of breaking radiator neck. Also the instructions are poorly written. Never could determine how/when to use the #14 stainless fastener which is supposed to be used for all adapters and seat accessories for toyota.

Pay more and get a professional set and avoid the headaches and frustration.

Yea, I read the reviews, but there are also a lot of good ones. But also realize more people will post negative reviews typically then even bother to give a positive or realistic review.

I guess you are just a glass half full kind of guy. Assume you never buy any WING WAng tools or anything from Harbor Fright? But Harbor Freight seems to be doing quite well without your business.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

I LOVE... repeat LOVE shopping at Harbor Freight... but would steer clear of the kit they are selling. The reviews are terrible and a better, more trusted unit can be had for only a few bucks more.

I'd have to agree with Upallnight here.

Harbor Freight is the shit. But this one looks like one of their pieces to steer clear from.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Just checking in again now. No progress since yesterday - I'm working on other things. I think I know enough from all this discussion now. It does not make sense for me to buy a $200+ pressure tester tool at this point, but I'll see how things play out.

The X5 is at home, in the driveway, I assume.

Regarding cn90's wise note about not risking a major problem ... the only urgency is that my 17-year-old daughter wants to drive the X5 to school, etc. rather than my old Lexus, until I get back home in 2-3 more weeks. So nobody is really stranded and nothing bad will happen. I am hoping that we'll have a good learning experience if she is motivated enough to work with me over the phone to check, isolate, and fix things herself. We'll see on that one too. But I'll make sure nothing bad happens.

Follow up - as expected, when I finally got home, I was able to get it figured out in a few minutes. There was no need for a pressure test here.

The problem was that the coolant bleed screw had cracked radially and that was leaking. Once everything was cleaned and dried, the leak source could be verified by idling the car and either pressing the bleed screw in or just leaving it alone.

To get the car back on the road immediately, my daughter and I MacGuyvered a replacement, but will of course soon be replacing it with the real deal.

Thanks again for the advice.

This is just the beginning. The cooling system is on the verge of failure.

I wrote a partial cooling overhaul DIY @115K in forum if you are interested.

In a pinch, I got the harbor freight kit. It works. It just does. I think it fails with the pump. I had to sort of rig it to not leak at the hose. But it easily hit 15 psi and stayed there. I would try it for very little investment. I plan to mod mine for air compressor use if it becomes unusable with pump.

None of us have any idea if this is just the beginning. You could be correct but far more likely incorrect. The lifespan of the coolings system components is not finite. A periodic inspection is always a good idea at any mileage but a leaking anything in the cooling system does not foreshadow the system on the verge of failure.

Inspection is good but in some cases inaccurate.
- The reservoir maybe OK today but cracks next week (ask me how I know).
- The radiator: ditto, the famous place is upper nipple.
- The WP usually gives some noise when bearing goes out, but being inside engine, it is masked by engine noise and people listening to music in the cabin, then kaboom. There is a member listing the WP going out at 125K (forgot his name).

The recommendation by most BMW indy mechanics is that: at ___ miles, do an overhaul, it gives people peace of mind, and avoids a head gasket job...

There are tons of info on cooling system failure in E39 forums, it fails like clockwork. Many people regret they didn't do an overhaul sooner.

If you haven't already bought the plastic screw. A brass bleed screw "upgrade" is available from some of the usual parts retailers. I have one in my E46 and my E53. Just don't go crazy tightening it.

Of course there are times where something is not there at the time of the inspection or is missed.

Peace of mind and best practices are untouchable positions but the fact is some folks have limited expendable income. I don't think overhauling a system because of the failure of one component should be presented as if that is the only alternative to prevent a catastrophic engine failure.

Building a scenario of why all hell is going to break loose if you don't do an overhaul, or what happens with an E39 or most mechanics say with blank miles etc. are misleading to me. When there is a cooling system leak there will be loss of coolant or coolant on the ground. When a cooling system component fails the temperature gauge will peg and there will be a warning light on the dash. They will likely be steam rolling out from under the hood. It doesn't matter how loud the engine or radio is--it will be like old faithful sets off. If one is a member here I am quite sure they will notice one of those things and pull over and shut off the engine. I've been running high performance engines for decades. Overheating is quite a common problem even with all new components. If my pea brain notices a problem before there is engine damage I see no reason most here wouldn't as well.

Why are there so many comments like---you can't have a BB gun, you're going to shoot your eye out?

I'm with bc on this. I'm also one that has a 1.4 bar cap. I don't see my entire cooling system or radiator fail because I never changed it.

I agree with much of what you said. There is no need to replace every component of the cooling system if you are a vigilant individual. Most of the driving public is not unfortunately. Used to see it all the time at the shop.

If there is steam rolling out from under the hood of a BMW... any BMW from 1983+ there is a very good possibility that the head gasket has already popped at best, or the head has warped at worst. It's good practice to, at minimum, do the WP, expansion tank, and thermostat every ~100,000 miles or so. All of that can be done for less than $150 using OE parts.

1+,

I am sorry but I have to disagree with "bcredliner".

So many people lose the head gasket in E39 forum (M52 and M54 engines). In the E39 forums, every week, there is a post about overheated engine, mainly because of neglect. By that time it is too late.

M52 is a bit better b/c the block is iron, so just do the head gasket, valve jobs, valve seals and done with. The block is usually OK.

M54 is a bit more complicated, once the engine overheats, it is not only the head but the head bolts usually strip out of the aluminum block. One will need to do Timesert or use Mercedes head bolts.

Let me be clear: I am not a parts swapper. I trouble-shoot things carefully before replacing parts.

The cooling system is an exception. A cooling system with > 100K-120K miles is like a time bomb...the consequence when the bomb explodes is very severe (overheated engine and head gasket job is not cheap)...

So, it makes sense to prevent the bomb from exploding.

I have fixed BMW for 30 years, and have never lost an engine from overheat (yet).


Having said that:

1- If one:
---> a. is vigilant watching the temp gauge all the time,
---> b. only drives around town
---> then one can leave the cooling system alone and fix it as it comes.

2- However if one:
---> a. is not vigilant
---> b. regularly leaves town...
---> then a cooling overhaul is recommended.

My cousin owns a BMW indy shop in L.A. area, he has seen so many overheated and trashed BMW engines, now he only sells cooling overhaul, otherwise no warranty of the work...

PS: The argument of no "extra income" does not fly. If people own a car, they need to budget money for registration, insurance, maintenance (either emergency or preventive stuff) to make the driving experience more pleasurable.

Temp gauge is also buffered so if masks the initial overheating and there is no audible warning.

You either modify the temp gauge buffer - DIY: Changing Temperature Gauge Buffer Range with PA Soft 1.4 - E46Fanatics

Add a Coolant Snitch if they are still available - CoolantSnitch(tm)

Or run a UltraGauge and see threshold alarms - UltraGauge OBDII Scan tool & Information Center

I agree if one is driving long distances away from home base preventative maintenance is far more important. Nothing worse than being stranded somewhere without the proper tools and the choices for repair shops are not familiar with a BMW. If I didn't mention that I should have.

I also agree that overheating can cause much bigger problems, and aluminum heads and/or block increase the risk of that happening.

I agree that owners of cars that are out of warranty should put money aside for repairs and maintenance. I don't believe that is the reality of a very large percentage of owners and I think they should know they do have an option even if it is less than the optimum and involves higher risk. I am saying the lifecycle of one cooling system component is not necessarily the same as another so the failure of one component doesn't mean there is no other option that can be considered. No need to be sorry to disagree. It's just my opinion and I respect yours.

As I mentioned, OP certainly made the best decision. My only purpose has been to let OP and readers know that IMO piece by piece replacement is not a certain engine death sentence and that it is not irresponsible if that, for whatever reason, is what one needs to do.

:iagree:
In a DIY world, part by part replacement based on failure, wear, leakage, etc is a normal accepted practice. Observation, awareness, test and repair as needed.
With this practice there is little or no risk to the entire drivetrain due to a part failure. After all labor is free with this task model. Parts are the only real out of pocket costs.
In a DIFM world, replace everything as the average owners will say, "you touched it last therefor your fault." "You should have known...."
80-100k replace everything.

Yes, I noticed that. I've got both the brass and plastic ones (2 of those, actually) in my cart now.
BMW X5 3.0i Sport Utility E53 3.0L L6 Bleeder Screw with O-Ring for Cooling System
BMW X5 3.0i Sport Utility E53 3.0L L6 Bleeder Screw with O-Ring for Cooling System

I was all set to buy the brass one, but then I got to thinking a little ... is it actually better to have a plastic one in there (and a spare) so it will break if I or someone else over-tightens it?

I'm assuming that's what happened here. I must have overtightened it for no reason at all, probably while checking everything in sight while buttoning up after my recent voltage regulator replacement.

Easier to replace the plastic screw than just about anything else that may break first. Of course, step one is to not over tighten it.

Regarding overhaul or not, everyone's got good points, and I agree that basically it depends on the owner's situation. For the exact same car, I'd do it differently for myself than I would for a family member who lives far away.

Some other factors in that area, that are actually present in my situation are:
1. The driver and proximity are unknown. Me, one of my kids? Locally or away at college? Just this last little episode shows how being separated from the car makes simple things a lot harder.

2. Service records are incomplete. In my case, I know some things have been replaced, but if something is not in the records, what do I assume?

3. Availability of time to work on the car - not much right now, may have more in a month, etc.

The car has 173k+ miles now (2001 3.0i AT). Records (again, expected to be incomplete since there are gaps, and through digging, I have found a few more things that were not in the records given to me at purchse) show, all local dealer work:
61k - reman water pump put in because original was leaking
158k - thermostat housing, thermostat, gasket
- expansion tank
- complete CVV system
- DISA valve
- MAF sensor

(more complete info, with part numbers is below)

So I don't know about the radiator, water pump (112k miles on the reman now). I've seen the radiator many times, never thinking of it as anything other than original, but never inspecting it carefully to be sure. The radiator hoses all look ~new, probably replaced during the 158k repair bomb, I'll guess. BTW, the PO ended up selling me the car for a fraction of these repair costs ... and then bought a new X5!

I generally like to do all the PM required and then some, what I call "pre-emptive repairs" rather than PM. So I did cn90's pulley overhaul, and OFHG gasket tutorials. While doing those, I confirmed that the water pump feels good. Not _perfectly_ tight, but smooth.

I think I've got my family trained to pay close attention to gauges and know never to drive when it is showing HOT.

So I'm inclined to pay a little extra attention to the radiator and water pump, but not do anything for now.


More complete related service data:
6-Jun-05 61343 Stevens Creek BMW
$561 Replace water pump with remanufactured one 11-51-7-527-910
$22 replace coolant 82-14-1-467-704

15-Mar-13 158191 Stevens Creek BMW
$576 Replace air intake boot 13-54-1-440-102 tube elbow
$693 Replace thermostat housing with thermostat and gasket 11-53-7-509-227
$24 replace coolant 82-14-1-467-704
$614 Replace valve cover gasket. Set includes VCG, spark plug gaskets, VC bolt seals. 11-12-9-070-990
$41 replace 15 x valve cover bolt seals 11-12-1-437-395
$1,015 Replace transfer case
$2,413 transfer case. AT-auxiliary transmission 27-10-7-504-568
$136 rubber mounting. Transmission mount. 22-31-6-754-088
$1,119 replace CVV valve and all hoses
$90 replace CVV valve 11-61-7-501-566
$40 replace vent pipe for oil separator - from valve cover to oil separator 11-61-1-432-559
$51 replace Connection Hose for Oil Separator - From Valve to Air Distribution Piece 11-61-7-504-535
$53 replace Return Pipe for Oil Separator 11-61-7-504-536
$27 replace vacuum hose, black 11-72-7-545-323
$43 replace vent hose - Dipstick tube to oil separator 11-15-7-532-628
$340 Replace Intake Manifold Actuator - DISA valve 11-61-7-544-805
$100 Replace expansion tank 17-11-7-573-781
$555 Replace mass airflow sensor 13-62-7-567-451

:thumbup: