Stranded/can't start! - Could use some help! [SOLVED!]
 

Starter will not engage when I try to start the X5. Accessories, etc, work fine but starter will not engage. No clicks, sounds, anything from it. Assumed battery was discharged but behavior is no different after attempting to start with a power pack or jump-starting from another vehicle. Battery is about 2 years old, ignition switch is about 1 year old. I also tried the 2nd key and trying to start from neutral. What the heck could be going on?

Have you tried tapping it with a long crowbar or flat head?

Check the starter relay in the E box where the DME is located.

Do dash lights and headlights dim when you try to start it?

I had similar problem. Check your DME fuses. After 2 weeks of tearing mine apart and losing my mind, decided to check fuses, bingo. Not sure of 05 fuse box layout, but my DME had 3 separate fuses controlling it. Keep us posted.

Just now back with the x5. Had to get a ride to work earlier.

Just tested starter relay. Working fine. Also checked all fuses in glovebox fuse compartment. None are blown. All the fuses in the DME relay carrier are good too. I've got plenty of battery power. It's just impossible to engage the starter.

I would remove the starter relay and jump the relay connector to see if it pass the 12 volts to the starter solenoid to engage the starter. You could have a bad chip in the key or the antenna ring at the ignition switch could be bad and not passing on the code to the EWS to verify that a good key is being used.

Do this only if you know something about how relays operates.

Check your gear position switch as well.
-Matt

If I get the starter to engage this way is there a way to test the antenna ring and/or key chip? FWIW this behavior is the same with both keys. Thanks again-

Thanks, Matt. Based on the info I'm obtaining from the search function here and realoem.com, I'm assuming my gear position switch is the type that is internally-mounted on my '06 3.0's A5S390R (GM 5L40-E) transmission. How do you test the gear position switch if it's internally-mounted? I'm not getting any other trans faults or odd display behaviors from the instrument cluster.

If it is happening on both keys, I kinda doubt that both key chips would go bad at the same time. I would look at the antenna ring that is suppose to pick up the key chip code and pass it on to the EWS module.

Have you verified that the starter solenoid is receiving a 12 volt signal to kick in and complete the circuit for the battery to supply power to the starter motor? I had a Audi in which the engine didn't crank, starter was good but it wasn't receiving the 12 volt signal to the starter solenoid. Jerry rigged a wire down to the signal wire on the solenoid and touch the other end to the plus side of the battery. The solenoid energised and the starter turn the engine over. I placed the key in the run position of the starter switch and jump the starter again and the engine cranked and started. After I got the Audi back home, I found that the signal wire to the starter solenoid had broke so I just spliced a new wire from where it was still good to the starter solenoid. Never had a no crank problem after that.

Ok, so I'm confused. Located the starter relay according to the Bentley manual (inside the DME box at firewall), and when I jumper it, a fan turns on in the engine compartment...? Could the manual be incorrect? I pulled an orange relay with 5 prongs that matches the location specified by the manual. Can anyone confirm the proper location for the starter relay? Thanks.

Also, is it possible that a bad ignition switch could cause this same behavior?

EDIT: According to realoem the one I pulled is showing up as "Secondary Air Injection Pump" relay, which is not matching with the Bentley..??

Look at post No17 on this thread. It has a picture for a M54 and M62 E-box and the relay is labeled.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ng-woes-2.html

After you jumped the relay did you try starting the engine with the key?

That's the same pic I have in my Bentley manual. My box layout looks different. Starter still won't engage with pins jumpered.

Here's another picture of the starter relay in the E-box.

http://www.xoutpost.com/922828-post32.html

I would also check fuse 105 behind the fuse panel in the glove box.

Thanks so much for the continued suggestions. I really appreciate the help! I think I was able to finally locate the starter relay and verify its operation. I also tested all of the fuses in the glove box. At this point I'm not sure what to do next. I suppose I could test the antenna ring, but what beyond that would help me to track this down? I also tried to test starter operation from my DIS/gt1 software but it appears you need another test harness which I don't have. Really don't want to have to have this towed to a shop.

I think you need to find out what is the problem. You could have a BAD starter or you could have electrical issues. If you have 12 volts at the starter solenoid when the key is turned to the start position then you have a bad starter. If you don't have 12 volts at the starter solenoid when the key is turned to the start position then you have electrical issues.

Electrical issues could be with the EWS system or a broken wire to the starter solenoid. If you can't determine what issue you are dealing with then I guess the best thing is to have it towed to a shop.

Sorry for the ambiguity. I took the relay out and tested its operation with a spare battery, checking continuity between 30 and 87 with power and without power. Assuming I was testing the correct relay (which has been a bit confusing, as my DME box doesn't look like any of the pictures in the Bentley manual), I then jumpered the relay socket to bypass the relay, with the same results. Starter would not engage.

I have not yet tried running 12v straight to the starter solenoid. EDIT: going to test that next and post back results-

Since I'm working on this by myself, I'll try running a long wire from the starter solenoid to my test light so I can see if I get 12v when I turn the key to the start position.

***EDIT: Found a diagram with labeled leads on the solenoid... Will test and post back with results

The scope on a rope is one of my favorite piece of test equipment.

Ok I just connected 12v directly to solenoid. Starter cranks. Not getting 12v to the solenoid when I turn the key. So problem is not the starter. Still scratching my head. Fuses and relays all seem to be fine.

O.K. at least we know it's not the starter. Since you have GT1, can you perform a EWS synch with the DME? The only reason I can see why there is no 12 volt to the starter solenoid is either problem with the EWS system or a break in the wire.

When you jumped the starter did you try starting the engine. You can place the key in the ignition switch and turn it to the run position and jump the starter. Make sure the trans is in PARK position and the brakes are on. Jumping the starter this way will defeat the shift interlock and allow the engine to start in ALL GEARS.

I've decided this Bentley manual is absolutely useless. Ripped out the glove compartment in order to expose the fusable links where F105 is, and the links under the plastic cover, and what I have there again does not match up with the pictures in the manual. See attached picture for what is under my cover. If one of those is F105 I sure don't see anything that is wrong. Attachment points and leads are secure. Anyone have any other suggestions? EDIT: just saw upallnight's post regarding ews test

UGH!!! Getting nowhere. :dunno: :(

In answer to your question, yes I did start the engine successfully when I ran power directly to the solenoid. So right now I have a wire attached to a clip on the solenoid terminal hanging underneath the car in case I have to move it in an emergency.

Also, I just performed the DME/EWS sync via my DIS software. After going through the steps, it claimed it was successful. Still not able to engage the starter. All of the status queries I'm making to the EWS system are showing that there are no faults stored and that it is not preventing the car from starting.

I don't know what else to check at this point. Surely the solution is simple and I'm missing something dumb... The car has been running perfectly until this.

Then you must have a break in the 12 volt supply wire to the starter solenoid. I used a cable tracker to find the location of the broken wire. Harbor Freight sells a cheap cable tracker.

Cable Tracker

Video on using a cable tracker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0HjaR0tj7Q

I had an Audi Avant in which the 12-volt wire to the starter solenoid was also broken so no crank on the starter. Trace the wire to a break that was just 1/2" away from the lug that attaches the wire to the solenoid. Made a new wire with a new lug and spliced my new wire at the break and that solved my problem.

Further examination and comparison to these Bentley manual and online diagrams has me still questioning the location of the starter relay. I want to make darn sure I've tested the right components:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ml#post1059205

SOLVED!!!
 

(Spoiler alert: it was the ignition switch)

Well I finally figured out what is going on with my no start condition. Based on all of the feedback and some more of my own research, I woke up this morning determined and deduced the possible sources of my issues based on the following tests and observations:

-Battery power was sufficient to crank and start the vehicle.

-All accessories worked; just could not engage the starter in the starting key position.

-12v was not showing up at the solenoid when the key was in the start position

-All fuses and relays checked out good.

-Since I could jump the starter solenoid directly from the positive terminal, this ruled out a bad starter.

-Problem existed with both master keys AND the valet key.

-Since I could also start the X5 by jumping the solenoid if the key was in the ON position, that ruled out any EWS problems, since an EWS lockout would have allowed the engine to crank but never start up. This also ruled out a bad key chip or antenna ring. (All of this was also confirmed by diagnostics in my DIS software)

So after all of those tests I figured the problem could only be one of a few things:

-a break in the wiring
-a starter relay that was acting strange
-a bad ignition switch that wasn't allowing power to pass to the starter
-some other strange voltage drain occuring between the switch and the solenoid

So, I decided to go after the ignition switch first, since ruling it out would be the easiest first step. I unplugged the connecter from the switch, and then proceeded to jumper power directly to ignition positions and then the starter. The X5 started right up!!! :thumbup:

So, evidently my ignition switch is bad! Off to the dealer I go tomorrow to grab a new one.

Thanks everyone who helped me with their feedback and suggestions, especially upallnight for all of his input each step of the way!!!!

Great that you finally solved the problem.

This youtube video may be helpful in fixing your existing ignition switch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sEfZIpE9h8

The contacts might be pitted from use.

Fantastic! I'm going to try and see if I can resurrect my switch. Thanks again!

Cleaned the ignition switch contacts and it's fully operational again.

These ignition switches are obviously very susceptible to corrosion and failure over time. I replaced my original failing ignition switch at 94k miles. After 20k miles, the new one started failing and I fixed it by cleaning the contacts. Although I have my current switch working again, I'm thinking about purchasing a new spare, anyways.

:thumbup: