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Time for some work...
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All,
OK, looks like my CCV failed. I thought I had a failed pulley, and engine failsafe prog, and no power and all that stuff. So, time to do some work! I am going to do a compression test to make sure I didn't do any significant internal damage, hopefully that turns out well. I'm going to be replacing the CCV system, hoses, valve cover gaskets, valley pan gasket, the whole works. I'm looking to make sure I don't miss anything. I'm attaching some pics of the intake, and it definitely looks like there is a lot of oil in there and that's bad... |
DAAAM
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If you are doing the valley pan, the water pump has to come off. Unless they were done recently, I would replace that and the thermostat, along with the two pipes that go from the water pump to the back of the engine ( the ends were corroded on mine).
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Welcome to the hell that is the M62 crankcase vent system.
Ripped the whole front of the motor off in my E39 this summer to do all that fun stuff. Do your Vanos sprockets. Do them. DrVanos.com Chris is awesome - and for $250/pc you're getting quality units. Unless you want to tackle the besian seals yourself. |
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@David - Yes, I'm planning on replacing everything related to cooling/heating. All the hoses, thermostat, pump, the whole works. I don't know the state of things, so I'm just going to do it all and be done. I think you mentioned a cold weather CCV system, so I will look into that too.
@TECN1K - I didn't think about the VANOS, but yeah, I'll add that to the list too. I've heard other use DrVanos, so I'll probably do the same. Besian seals don't sound like fun. Also, first piece started and half done. Cleaned up the passenger side headlight using the 3M kit. Attached are before/after pics. |
All,
So I've put together a list of stuff from ECS Tuning. I know some of it's overkill like the valley pan gasket set, but since I want to replace the water pump and everything anyway I'm willing to get it. My concerns are...what am I missing? I won't know if I need to do the timing chain stuff until I can take the covers off and look at them. If I need to do them, then I'll order the kit to do the timing chain guides. I also am not sure what I'll need to do the intake manifold and get it cleaned up since it's soaked in oil. I'm guessing the CCV and VPG kit will take care of this, or is there something I'm missing? |
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It's a given do your timing guides.
here's a list I gathered from online sources (namely ECS & Bavauto) for my 2003 540i E39 M62TUB44 Dr.Vanos rebuild +core M62TU V8 Bank 1 valve cover gasket set (11120034104) bank 2 valve cover gasket set (11120034105) 6 x valve cover front bolt grommet (11121721879) 16 x valve cover side bolt grommet (11121437395) (get as kit) 2 x engine top cover gasket (11121733969) Bank 1 upper timing cover gasket (11141741532) bank 2 upper timing cover gasket (11141741533) 2 x solenoid gasket (11141435023) 2 x solenoid check valve (11121706921) (replaced 9/5/15, not included) Bank 1 vanos distribution piece gasket (11361705578) bank 2 vanos distribution piece gasket (11361705579) 4 x camshaft chain tensioner guide (11311435028) 6 x camshaft seal ring (11311705512) $5.70/each Crankshaft tensioner rubber grommet (11141736758) (only non-BMW part) crankshaft chain tensioner washer (07119963355) coolant drain bolt washer (07119963225) Timing chain guide list (some parts appear on both lists) part# 11231736585 “jesus bolt/crank bolt” part# 11431707164 dip stick lower oring upper oil pan hole. Part# : 11141741 532 Gasket Upper Chain Case Cover Cylinders 14 (right side) Part# : 11 14 1 741 533 Gasket Upper Chain Case Cover Cylinders 58 (left side) Part# : 11 14 1 436 978 Gasket Set Lower Chain Case Cover 2Part# : 11 14 1 435 023 Gasket / Flange for Vanos Solenoid Located in upper timing cover. Part# : 11 12 0 034 104 Valve Cover Gasket Set Right Cylinders 1 4 Part# : 11 12 0 034 105 Valve Cover Gasket Set Left Cylinders 5 8 16 Part# : 11 12 1 437 395 Valve Cover Nut Seal 6Part# : 11 12 1 721 879 Valve Cover Bolt Seal Part# : 11 31 7 531 813 Timing Chain Tensioner Part# : 07 11 9 963 355 Aluminum Washer tensioner Part# : 11 31 1 741 236 Timing Chain Rail for Lower Timing Chain Crankshaft to Camshaft Chain (this is part number for From 98 not thru 98) Part# : 11 31 1 741 777 Timing Chain Rail (Guide Rail) UShaped Rail Part# : 11 31 1 745 406 Timing Chain Rail for Lower Timing Chain Left Side Part# : 11 14 1 275 466 Crankshaft Seal Part# : 11 13 1 436 324 Oil Pan Gasket for Lower Oil Pan Part# : 11 51 1 731 372 Water Pump Gasket Part# : 11 53 1 710 048 ORing Water Pipe/Water Pump Part# : 11 53 1 710 055 ORing Water Pipe/Water Pump Part# : 12 31 7 507 996 ORing for Water Cooled Alternator Part# : 11 15 1 705 272 Oil Separator Crankcase Ventilation System (from 9/98 part no.) Part # 11141742042 Valley Pan w/gasket |
@Jay - Yeah, mine's a bit over and currently sits at a few miles short of 144K. I was going to wait since I just don't know the state of them, or if they've been done before. I'm guessing not since I don't get the impression the PO's had any idea about this vehicle. You mentioned the seals aren't that bad and a video...do you have a source for that video?
@TECN1K - That's perfect, thank you! Now I just need to find some videos to know what I'm going to be doing. The timing chains freak me out a bit only because I've never touched timing chains before. It's about the one thing I've never done. All the rest should be straightforward. |
When I did mine - the guides looked fine. I changed them anyway. Once off, I pinched the plastic guide channels with my fingers, and they shattered like brittle candy. Same thing with my OSV. BMW - whatsamattu with this junk.
Scary stuff. http://i.imgur.com/y0BsRa6.jpg?1 |
The timing part is easy. You should rent or buy the set of timing tools made for the M62TU. They have special clamps that position and lock each (of 4) cams into place, and include a pin to lock the flywheel in place. After that, you really have to work hard to mess up the timing! You can see those black steel cam-timing clamps on the very back of the cams in tecn1k's picture. The red anodized tool in the front of the photo is part of that kit, also, keeps tension on the timing guide while the front cover is off..
Even if you don't rebuild the vanos by yourself, go to the beisan website and read the whole procedure - it shows you how to completely disassemble and reassemble the top end, step by step, with color pictures. I did rent the tools and rebuild my vanos following the beisan procedure. Didn't immediately cure all my engine noise, but the last occasional rattle went away recently when I changed the oil pump. It has lasted 2.5 years so far. |
OK all, here's my updated list of stuff to get. This should cover the major pieces: cooling, CCV, VPG, VCG, VANOS/Timing. This list doesn't seem so bad considering just the VPG done by the dealer would be over half the cost of this stuff.
Cooling - Water Pump - GEBA - 11510393336 Cooling - Water Pump O-Ring - rein - 11531710048 Cooling - Water Pump O-Ring - rein - 11531710055 Cooling - Al Water Pump Pulley - ÜRO - 11511742045 Cooling - Water Pump and Fan Clutch Kit - Schwaben - 001170SCH01AKT Cooling - Al Radiator Bleeder Screw - ECS - 003530ECS01A Cooling - Expansion Tank Kit - ECS Kit - 17107514964KT In Kit:Cooling - Coolant Drain Plug Crush Ring - BMW - 07119963225 Cooling - Radiator Hose Lower - rein - 11537500750 Cooling - Radiator Hose Upper - rein - 11537500746 CCV - Crankcase Vent Pipe - Return - BMW - 11157520742 CCV - Oil Separator Kit - ECS Kit - 11151705237KT In Kit:VCG - Ultimate Valve Cover Gasket Set - ECS Kit - 11121437395KT In Kit:VPG - Valley Pan Gasket - BMW - 11141736175 Misc - Tensioner Pulleys - Ruville - 11287500560 Misc - Accessory Belt - Continental - 11281432724 Misc - A/C Belt - Continental - 11287507626 Misc - Alternator Gasket - BOSCH - 12317507996 VANOS/Timing - Ignition Coil Cover Gasket - BMW - 11121733969 VANOS/Timing - Upper Timing Cover Gasket 1-4 - BMW - 11141741127 VANOS/Timing - Upper Timing Cover Gasket 5-8 - BMW - 11141741128 VANOS/Timing - Timing Cover Gasket w/ Flange - BMW - 11141435023 VANOS/Timing - Non-Return Valve - BMW - 11121706921 VANOS/Timing - VANOS Solenoid Gasket 1-4 - BMW - 11361705578 VANOS/Timing - VANOS Solenoid Gasket 5-8 - BMW - 11361705579 VANOS/Timing - Timing Chain Guide Rail - Upper - BMW - 11311435028 VANOS/Timing - Camshaft O-Ring - BMW - 11311705512 VANOS/Timing - O-Ring - Victor Reinz - 11141736758 VANOS/Timing - Drain Plug Gasket - BMW - 07119963355 VANOS/Timing - Center Crankshaft Bolt - BMW - 11231736585 VANOS/Timing - Dipstick O-Ring - BMW - 11431707164 VANOS/Timing - Timing Chain Cover Gasket - Lower - BMW - 11141436978 VANOS/Timing - Timing Chain Tensioner - febi - 11317531813 VANOS/Timing - Timing Chain Tensioner Rail - BMW - 11311741236 VANOS/Timing - Timing Chain Guide Rail - febi - 11311741777 VANOS/Timing - Timing Chain Guide Rail - Left - BMW - 11311745406 VANOS/Timing - Crankshaft Seal - Front - febi - 11141275466 VANOS/Timing - Lower Oil Pan Gasket - elring - 11131436324 VANOS/Timing - M62TU VANOS Seals Repair Kit - Beisan - BS051 VANOS/Timing - M62TU VANOS Teflon Ring - Beisan - BS052 VANOS/Timing - M62TU VANOS Pick Tools - Beisan - BS096 VANOS/Timing - Timing Chain Tool Rental - BimmerToolRental - Timing V1 If anyone see's anything missing please let me know. I'm going to order everything today. |
which 3m headlight restoration kit did you use?
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This is the kit I used:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Headlight-R.../dp/B00WY5L09O I need to get some refills, because I went through 5 of the 6 gold sanding pads on just one light. My headlights were bad. This is the second vehicle I've used this kit on and the results have been great both times. |
please don't get any URO parts :(
I'd call ECS and ask if they can substitute something else. I steer clear of URO |
TECN1K - OK, wasn't sure on that. I can update that to use different part suppliers. Thanks for the heads up on that.
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OK, all parts purchased. I haven't ordered the Beisan stuff yet, but I'll get that too. Now I just need to continue the tear down and wait for parts to arrive. I ended up going through both ECS and FCP based on prices and shipping. Overall saved a couple hundred $$.
ECS has the BMW Crankcase Vent Pipe return part #11157520742 on sale for like $12 if anyone needs one. Considering it's normally around $135 it's a steal. I also ended up not using any of the "kits" provided by either ECS or FCP. All their kits end up being more $$ than the individual parts. |
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I would add in heater hoses and the seal on the oil level sender (which sits on the lower oil pan cover). The heater hoses are much easier to reach while the valve cover is off. The bolts on the timing cover also have special seals. Id replace those
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And you need to buy/rent/borrow a crank holding tool to counter hold the crank to get the main "Jesus bolt" out.
Man, I'm digging this project. Glad to see someone else dive into this engine head first! |
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Yes Uro parts are the cheapest in every regard. Stay away from them |
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@TECN1K - Yeah, guess I'm lucky! It was showing that way for me for 2 days, guess I was just the lucky one? I'll take it! This is straight from my order:
Crankcase Vent Pipe - Return ES#19632 A genuine replacement from BMW 11157520742 1 $11.89 $11.89 @David - Thanks for the heads up on the crank holding tool. I'm thinking the local O'Reillys or AutoZone would have one of those? Or, is it a special tool just for our crazy Germans? I was also debating the heater hoses. I just replaced the engine inlet hose, which will now be much easier to access...grrrr. Although, if I hadn't been lazy I would have taken the intake off for it and probably seen the impending disaster. I'll also double check the seals for the timing cover and make sure I have those. I don't recall seeing any of those in my list. I ran into the first WTF? BMW moment last night. I was removing the rear skid plate, and was shocked and appalled to realize they use friggin nuts?! WHO USES NUTS ON A SKID PLATE?! Yeah, tweak a freaking 17MM wrench around steel parts to hold it...man that pissed me off. Everything else I've wrenched on, GM/Jeep/Toyota/Land Rover, all used welded nuts or just threaded into the frame. Also, while taking a look underneath (man I need to clean it!), I noticed the Climate Control sensor (64116917001) just resting on the A/C pulley. Apparently there are two blocks on the fan shroud. One for an electrical connection and a spot on top for this sensor. Well, the mount for the connector is gone so it has nothing to connect to and the mount on the sensor is broken so they just let it all fall. How the fan never ate that sensor I have no idea but you can see chewing up of the sensor by the A/C pulley. The more I learn the more I want to find the PO's and beat them with a wet noodle. I'm hoping to get all my parts before next Friday. I have a 3-day weekend then and I'm hoping to get all the work done. Between now and then I'll be cleaning and getting ready! On a positive note, I did get the drivers side headlight cleaned up! Before and after. The before shot isn't so great to show how bad it was. |
Crap! Forgot the intake manifold gaskets! Why they don't show up through a search on either ECS or FCP I don't know. But, got the PN# from RealOEM.com and just ordered them.
Glad I found out now! |
Again, I recommend Dr.Vanos - the gaskets and orings for the sprockets are a pain in the ass.
M62TU V8 You can rent the tool here, lol no, not at Auto Zone. I can't imagine the look you'd get from the dork behind the counter if you asked. https://www.germanautosolutions.com/..._cam_tools.php Bro this is not a job for the faint of heart - you're about to gut your motor :P Read over the entire Beisan teardown procedure. Like 12 times. Beisan Systems - Procedures - M62TU Vanos Procedure |
@TECN1K - I'm still conflicted. Getting the VANOS rebuilt by DrVANOS is easier and less error prone, but $500 instead of $80 is a big difference. I'm going over all the Beisan procedures now and maybe that will help make up my mind. I've never worked on engines as complicated as this. Old Jeep 6 cylinder and GM 3800's are not quite like this.
David mentioned the crank holding tool, would this be the flywheel locking tool? For the VANOS I was going to rent the kit from BimmerToolRentals. However, I may just look at getting the kit from GAS since I intend to have this vehicle for quite a while. Long enough I may decide to rebuild things again. Even just getting the Pro kit allows me to do one side at a time, and it seems like this would have everything? My bigger concern besides me doing this, is that I'm going to open her up and discover gross neglect and destruction. Then...we'll see what happens then. |
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I didn't see the crank holding tool to rent. It looks like this. You can find them online for $60-$80. There are a few different brands.
I am willing to lend my crank holding tool if you pay shipping and send a deposit; the deposit I will return when the tool comes back. PM me if you want to do that. Yeah, the aluminum reinforcement plate is crazy. I'm a little curious about your bolts. Mine all use 16mm sockets/wrenches. The stock BMW bolts are said to be 1-time use (It has a torque-angle spec - the book says 41 ft-lbs plus 90 degrees) and the price has drifted up from $4 each to $13 each. There is a whole thread on this - http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...olts-nuts.html |
The flywheel holding tool is a special pin. Fits through the aluminum bell housing and into the flywheel. It is not meant to resist the torque needed to get the main bolt out. Its to hold timing.
The main pulley (with damper) is made in two parts - remove the 6-8 bolts holding it together, remove the outer part, and install the holding tool on the nub that is left behind. Either counter hold it with a cheater bar, or position it on the frame rail avoiding crushing any wires or hoses. Then figure out how you are going to turn that 400 ft-lb mama-jama nut. A 3/4" drive breaker bar (which is around 48" long) works good! |
David - OK yeah, I'll see if I can find that part online. I'm still debating about the GAS tool and may just get that instead of renting. Yeah renting is cheaper, but there's something to be said for having all the parts/tools and not having to work on a timeline.
Also, screw that. I'm going to re-use the bolts. They hold on a freaking plate. A simple plate. Holy crap BMW get your head out. However, yes you are correct, I do believe they're actually 16MM not 17MM like I had said. On a related note, what's a good degreaser to spray? The entire engine is COATED in oil and grime and I'd like to get it cleaned up before I start digging in. I have heard that Simple Green is good, other options? I can't use a hose to hose it out so I was looking for something I could spray and let sit and then rinse off with a spray bottle or wipe off. |
Getting the VANOS rebuilt (lets say from anyone online) just saves you the steps of rebuilding your VANOS sprocket (with the crazy pressing and fishing out of seals you can't see) - you are still doing all the removal and installation yourself and have to figure out all the crazy tools and set the timing right. If $500 let you avoid the whole procedure, it would be worth it, but it just lets you skip the rebuilding step.
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Holy crap! 400 ft/lb?! I didn't realize I needed to do a floor squat to get that bolt out. I mean, I guess it makes sense but DAMN. Yeah, I'll be getting a tool for that! I don't think I, or my relatives have anything that could handle that kind of torque.
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Simple Green does work, but needs agitation to be effective. It also needs to be rinsed with water, so this time of year that might be challenging. If you leave it on the car, it will etch and discolor aluminum.
I use the foamy engine degreaser from the auto part store. Collected as much as I could in my oil catch pan and dropped it off on one of those household hazardous roundup days. |
@TECN1K - OK, just reviewed the procedures for doing the beisan seals and yeah, that doesn't look like fun AT ALL. I may do the DrVanos instead. That brings up another question. DrVanos has two options, either buy them up front and get refunded when your core gets there, or send them in for rebuild. From reviewing everything, if I buy them then either GAS kit works. If I send them in, I need to lock everything in place on both heads at once which means I would need the Master Kit to do both VANOS at the same time. Is this correct?
Second question, I'm assuming the "Jesus" bolt needs to come out for the timing chain guides? The procedures on Beisan didn't mention even removing the lower timing chain cover I don't think. So then my question is, will the GAS master kit work for the timing chain guides, or is there another kit somewhere I need to replace the timing chain guides in addition to the Pro/Master Kit? |
I bought them and sent back my cores - much faster turn around, and you won't need the master kit.
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@TECN1K - OK, so then I could just use the pro kit and do one side at a time. That's what I was thinking. Plus, those things do look like a beast. I know David said they weren't bad, but after reviewing the procedures that doesn't look like something I want to try. I tend to be a bit heavy-handed with things like seals.
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@David - Does this look like the right tool for the job? It's actually hard to find that specific tool. Searching the part number 112450 usually comes up with a timing kit.
BMW M60 M62 Crankshaft Pulley Holding Tool | eBay |
It's good to know your limitations - if that VANOS procedure seems painful, then definitely get someone to do it for you.
About the crank bolt - it has to come off if you want to replace the front main seal and/or the main timing chain. The Beisan guide shows you how to replace the guides, but leave the original main timing chain in place (I am saying "main" as there are also smaller chains on each head). Since the miles are adding up, I wasn't going to go so far as replace the timing guides and VANOS and not the main timing chain, and my front main seal was definitely leaking. |
Yep, that's the same tool, different manufacturer.
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@David - I was curious about that. While I have 150K on it, I wasn't sure if it would be a good idea to replace the timing chain or not. I did see there are two, and I understand which you're referring to.
Part of me says to just replace it since I'm already going to be in there. But, the frugal side says that if the chain is fine, don't waste the money... |
Chain stretch is a thing, although it tends to be minimal. That being said, I did not replace mine. I'll add - my engine is as quiet as a mouse now, with no startup rattles (primarily from vanos bleeding off oil) or chain slap. Prior it suffered from a 1-2 second startup clatter (and a big cloud of oil smoke from the OSV coupler being cracked in 2)
One of those things you'll need to assess once you're in there. |
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-once-all.html
This may provide some useful tips - even if it's a different engine ... |
@X-cellent - Great, thanks...NOW I WANT A FREAKING LIFT! OK, I always have, but it's even more evident now. Why did you have to show me that?!
Yes, I saw that thread and I'm reading it now. Thanks for the head's up, I appreciate it! |
I've been looking at all the work, and the 4.6 thread really helps. I think from a plan of action perspective I'm going to tear out the intake and do the VPG/CCV first. Once that is done, I'll start tearing apart the timing guides and VANOS.
Hopefully that's a sound plan...any objections? I've also been lazy about ordering the Bentley manual...that will be on the list as well. |
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Status update. Tonight I pulled the fuel rail and removed the intake manifold. I took some pics of what I could see. I'm concerned with cylinders 5/6 (I think they're 5/6) due to what appears to be nasty build-up on the intake valves. From what I understand that type of discoloration and gunk shouldn't be anywhere, least of all on the intake. However, it all looks horrible to me. Especially all the oil and junk on the injector, as well as the pics that show it everywhere.
My plan for tomorrow is going to be taking the valve covers off, plugs out, and seeing if I can do a compression test. I want to pull all plugs so if there is crap in there it won't blow. The battery has been disconnected for a few days, and clearly the engine is missing pieces, so I am not sure if I can still use the starter or if I'd need to turn the engine by hand. Fuel is disconnected and everything else so it's not going to run, and I can pull the fuel pump fuse if needed. My concerns are either the head can be cracked, the head gasket failed, or something major. I don't want to do all this work and replace everything to not fix the problem. |
Your PCV/CCV/OSV get up is shot to hell. You've been sucking serious oil into your intake manifold. Chill, keep tearing it apart.
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Yeah, it definitely is. Worse than I imagined really. But, I'll keep going and get her fixed!
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Question for everyone. Several people here and in my family have suggested a compression test. Great! However, since I've already disconnected the battery and taken the intake and everything off, would I be better to do a leak down test instead? I have a good compressor that can do the pressure, and aside from needing to get each cylinder TDC the leak down test seems like it would give me more info.
Thoughts from everyone? |
They are a little different, but the questions you are concerned with - did I crack the head, blow the head gasket, etc, the leak down test will work.
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And add injector orings to your shopping list!
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I'm not bothered by your valves. Looks like fresh oil from the CCV failure and not years of burned on oil. I bottle of valve/injector cleaner when you get it together will help a lot.
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David - As always, thanks for the helpful information!
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In researching this, I'm almost positive my experience is the same as many frozen CCV systems. I noticed on a Land Rover site, those with the same M62 have a heater blanket that sits under the hoses and keeps them warm when it's freezing.
LR Part# LLJ000030 - Does this part exist for our vehicles? It does get cold, it was -21* F when this happened. And, even when I move to almost a different county I still won't be more than 15 minutes away from work. I'm concerned that won't be far enough away. |
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Time for my daily update. I was able to get the CCV off, coils off, and the valve covers off last night. All were really easy. The valve cover gasket was completely destroyed and horrifying. Based on what I've seen so far, that failed completely when the CCV froze and why I have oil everywhere. I haven't seen any indication the head gasket has failed, no reason to believe coolant is anywhere other than from hoses leaking.
I'm also thinking that the reason the engine looks baked in oil is due to bad oil and/or extended intervals. The nuts on the coils clogged the socket so bad I had to clean it for every nut due to caked on oil. I'm including pics of some of the results. The coils were soaked in oil down by the plug, and the pics of the spark plug valley show why. My other questions revolve around the chain, the tensioner, the chain sprockets, and the cams. There is some wear on the chain, and some black marks on the chain sprockets, the tensioner appears to be pretty far in, and the cams look to have quite a bit of wear, especially on the passenger side. The cams are all intake cams if that makes any difference. I've never seem wear on cams, or chains, or sprockets, so I'm hoping someone with more experience can chime in. Good? Bad? Eh? As always, thanks for everyone's feedback! |
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Nice progress. The internals look pretty clean. Very little carbon build up. That's a good sign. the wear on the cam looks minor. You can pull them out and measure the wear if you really want (look for specs first). Can you feel a ridge with your fingernail? Here's a picture of a cam that really suffered. PO didn't keep up with oil changes.
The oil rail looks clean, too. |
nice nice...
Now's a good time to get your valve covers powder coated :D |
@David - OK, thanks for the feedback. No, can't really feel anything so I guess that means they're fine. The valve part looks fine, not sure what it's called, the flat piece the cam rides.
@TECN1K - Yeah, first part is getting everything cleaned! I've gotta get a bath for everything so I can start cleaning. That's going to take longer than anything else I think. Nobody is concerned about the wear on the chain or the black on the sprocket? If so, I'm still debating replacing the chains right now. It's ONLY 150K, and since I know I'll have to do the chain guides again in another 100K, I figured I'd just do the chains then when they'd need it. |
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The black on the sprocket is a _tiny_ little bit of carbon build up. Not worth thinking about.
I swiped this picture off the internet - this is what a head with carbon build up problem looks like |
@David - Oh crap...thanks for that! But, now you're making me cry. My wife's car is an '08 135i with yep, an N54 @73K! Great...so once I'm done with this one I get to do her's next! Ugh...I've heard rumors the N54 can be bad for carbon build up but DAMN.
So as of now, unless something changes when I take off the timing covers, I'm planning on leaving the chains for now and I'll hit those next time in 100K when I do the chain guides again. |
My answer about chains would be based on how far you end up tearing the motor down and what the cost associated is. If you're deep enough into it I'd just get the pain over with and have the peace of mind that you're not going to have to do this again...but that's me...i'd not leave anything and change as much as possible prematurely since I'm in there. Once and done.
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@X-cellent - I totally agree and understand. I'm still debating...because I'll already have everything torn apart. I mean...if you go 90% just do it all.
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So if I'm going to do the chain, I also need to replace the sprockets. I've read that mixing chains and sprockets with new/old is bad...
The VANOS units I can't change, those are all one pieces so I can't touch those. However, for the camshaft chain I can replace the sprocket on the exhaust correct? Parts needed to replace chains/sprockets: 11311741115 - Exhaust sprocket x2 11311747437 - Timing Chain Upper x2 11311435026 - Timing Chain Tensioner RIGHT 11311435027 - Timing Chain Tensioner LEFT 11311435028 - Timing Chain Slide x4 11311741746 - Timing Chain FRONT 11211742435 - Timing Chain Sprocket LOWER If I do all this, and change oil regularly, using good oil (Rotella T6 5-40), will I be able to get 200K before I need to do this again? Are there any other pieces I've missed? Gasket or o-rings? |
200K is pushing it on those plastic components (guides, OSV) You'll be in there again in 100K, or you should at least. Depends on how much time it takes you to rack up those miles.
I've seen guides done @75K but they only put 7.5K a year on the truck. YMMV |
@TECN1K - And that's what I'm afraid of. I KNOW I'll have to be in there again, and if it doesn't need it now then I don't want to do it.
I tend to rack up miles. I got the X5 in August with 138K, and now it's at roughly 150K. I average around 20K per year if not a bit more. But, that means I only have to deal with it every 5 years. Now, another thing to keep in mind is I would like (gotta convince the wife) to get the VF supercharger for this thing in the next few years. I know that will add stress to the components. However, I could just do chain guides and chain at the same time as the supercharger if/when I do that. But now I'm getting ahead of myself. |
Do I need any specific adapters for the leak down tester? I can't seem to find anything specifically for the M62, or BMW in general, which leads me to believe they're all universal.
Also, after reading the 4.6 thread, the Beisan seals don't look too bad so I think I'll go for those. The savings is just too much to try and deal with. |
No, they are pretty universal, based on spark plug thread sizes. Compare threads to the spark plug. One size should match.
You will need to get each cylinder to TDC for the measurement. |
@David - Yeah, I'm aware I need to get to TDC. Still thinking about how to do that, was thinking turning the crank manually to get each cylinder to TDC? I'm hoping the Bentley I ordered will detail which cylinders are TDC at the same time. I'm thinking two should be at the same time?
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I don't know the firing order by heart. In general, there are two easy ways - put a wooden dowel or plastic rod into the cylinder and watch it careful as it rises. You can check your work with a digital caliper if you are very particular. Since you have the valve covers off, you can also watch the cams/valves - the cam lobes should be aligned nicely so that the valves are all up and closed. Since this engine has hydraulic lifters right under the cams, you can't see the valves themselves, but can watch the cam lobes.
And, heck yes, you need a Bentley manual! |
All parts and tools and everything have been ordered, and will be arriving this week. I've already got the Bentley and everything, and we're good to go.
Had to order the timing chains today, as well as the crankshaft pulley holder and a couple more tools. Still need to pick up the 3/4" breaker bar from Sears sometime this week to get the crankshaft bolt off. I started cleaning the parts, and that process sucks. What degreaser does everyone use? The heavy duty stuff from Harbor Freight is about worthless, and the degreaser from O'Reilly goes way to fast to use. I've cleaned out the intake for the most part, but the valve covers are still bad, as well as other parts. I'm hoping to have everything done by the end of the weekend so I can get her back on the road! |
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Just get the 3/4 breaker bar from Harbor Freight. You're not gonna use that more than a couple of times in your life is my guess.
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@admranger - Honestly, I'd rather just pay the $30 for the Craftsman without a swivel head vs $23 for the Harbor Freight with a swivel head. I've heard some people have issues breaking the pins in the swivel head models. And while I may only use it a few times in my life...if I break it I'm still gonna be pissed.
Now if it were $23 vs $80, that'd be a different discussion! |
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Was able to get the accessories and everything off, the CPG off, and the oil pan off. I'm having an issue getting the alternator out though...any suggestions on how to do that?
The water pump looks to be in fantastic shape, and even has a metal impeller?? I'm used to seeing crap plastic impellers, so in my mind a metal one is good! I'll use the new gasket, but otherwise I see no reason to use the new water pump I got. Same thing with the belts. They look like MAYBE they have 25K on them, with almost zero cracking or anything. They'll go back on and I'll keep the current ones as replacements. The oil pan shows water in it, but I see no signs of metal or plastics or coolant. From what I've been able to see, the chain guides look fine with no chipping or breaks in them. I'm tempted to leave them be, but since I'm already there and have the tools, I'll be replacing them. Also, I know the coolant is green and that's from the PO. I will be replacing it with BMW coolant. The rest of the parts and tools should be arriving today, so I'll be able to get down to the nitty gritty today. I've already put her at TDC and lined everything up, tonight I'll secure everything and go to town. |
If this is engine porn, this is a fetish I'm really not into.
lol nasty. buy a case of brake cleaner! Pelican Technical Article - BMW X5 - M62 8-Cylinder Engine Alternator Replacement |
@TECN1K - Yes, no kidding. I've tried degreaser in the gallon jug, degreaser in a can, and neither did jack. The ONLY thing that worked at all was brake cleaner. So, I will be going to the store to get quite a bit more of it. I'm hoping to have a lot of it cleaned up once I'm done, and then may look at getting a steam clean.
Yeah, I got the bolts and everything out of the alternator, it's disconnected and everything, but it will not "slide out" as Pelican so delicately puts it. Any hints on how to slide it out? |
Get that green shiite out of that engine! Blue antifreeze only please...
Good luck with your repair! |
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Glad to see you're making progress.
Alternator- yes, it should slide out once the bolts are free. Check you didn't leave one bolt. If it's not that, I suspect someone put rtv on the oring. If that's the case, look at pictures online and find a place to pry it out of the cooling jacket. Carefully... Coolant - I'm a little worried about coolant in your oil. Could be a dribble from when you removed the water pump, or could hint at head gasket damage. Did you ever do your leak down test? |
@David - No, I didn't do a leak down test. I actually don't see any coolant in the oil, it all appears to be water from condensation. There is ZERO green in the oil. I also have not found a trace of oil in coolant, or any indication at all that either the head or head gasket has been compromised. I did get everything to do the leak down test, but since I haven't seen any indication of coolant anywhere I decided not to do it. All I've seen anywhere is water from what I assume is condensation.
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OK, question for everyone. I've seen and have rented the VANOS toolkit and timing chain guide kit. My question is...what is the process? I have the Bentley at home, but frankly I've found it relatively worthless so far.
I am thinking that if I put the crankshaft pin in, and lock the cams in place BEFORE I take the crankshaft bolt off I'll have a problem. So, I'm thinking I need to take the bolt off BEFORE I do the work on the VANOS units, so that if I need to rotate the crank to get the crankshaft holder tool setup correctly I won't bind anything or break the camshaft locks or anything. So, do I replace the timing chain guides and chain, and then deal with the VANOS units? Or how do I ensure the timing doesn't move when I'm replacing the timing chain guides? |
Weird. Thought you had written you saw coolant in the oil. Glad that is not a problem.
You have the right idea - get the main bolt off first, don't use the timing pins to hold it, or accidentally stress them. Once it is free, you can always loosely thread the bolt back into place to turn the engine over to find the timing position and then lock it all down. Reverse is the same, set all the timing parts into place and remove the timing fixtures before trying to reinstall the new bolt. Without plugs in place, it will turn over pretty easily. |
about the VANOS - you have to remove the chain to remove the VANOS. Follow the beisan procedure, but he expects you to leave the lower front cover on and set the chains out of the way - you will remove them. Same going the other way - install your new guides and chains, without the VANOS in place, then follow the beisan instructions.
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@David - OK, thanks! That's what I was thinking.
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OK, time for help!
Question 1: I've got the crankshaft bolt out, and all 15+6 of the bolts out of the lower timing cover. Now...how do I get the thing off? Does the power steering pump need to come off or something? I got the bolts off the bottom without moving the power steering pump. Question 2: How do I get the dispstick out? Is there really a hidden bolt on top that is impossible to get at?? Those are my two questions...how to get the lower timing cover off and the dipstick out. Any hints would be appreciated! The Bentley doesn't cover removing the lower timing cover from what I can see, and I haven't found any good directions for doing this on an X5. The 5/7 series have different oil pans. |
The hub (the big thing the main bolt was holding on) is keyed in place, you should pull that off first. I think I used a rubber mallet to get it moving.
After that, the cover should slide forward. The upper front covers should probably come off first. The dipstick tube will be in the way. It is held with a clamp and single bolt at the top (near where you grab the dipstick), another bolt halfway down and then a nut on a clamp that holds the far end into the oil pan. When I did this, the engine was out of the car and I pulled the oil pan, but I think people say if you remove those three fasteners you can rotate it out of the way to get the front cover off. |
@David - Yep, the hub is off. The problem is...it's not sliding anywhere. :(
And OK, thanks for the info on the tube. Yes, it'd be easier with the engine out! |
Does the AC belt tensioner have one bolt that goes into the front cover that may be locking things together?
I recall the power steering pump bolts into the oil pan, but do check that it doesn't have one bolt into the front cover as well. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but will have my X up on ramps in the morning and will look if you are still stumped. Here's a picture from the internet showing all the the holes - hope it helps IMG_8318.jpg Photo by Sm00th_j | Photobucket |
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This is where I'm at now. All bolts out, and the lower 6 have been removed too. Sorry for the pics, lighting isn't great.
@TECN1K - It's still not clean so don't look yet! :p: |
@David - Yeah, that's actually the pic from the other site I've been using. I did see two bolts that appear to go "through" the power steering pump, and I've removed those two bolts. Nothing else I can see is attached.
You're saying the cover just slid off? |
It will just slide off. There is a bolt on the left-side, mid-height of your picture - there are ~2 bolts in that area that need to come off. Did you get them?
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I bet its the rear nut on the back side of the power steering pump (it has 3 fasteners total) - see if that doesn't attach to the bottom of the alternator "lump".
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Awe crap - Yep, that's probably it. Grrr...
I'll see if I can get it later, gotta help friends move then going to get sushi. I need a break. I REALLY appreciate your help!! |
Unbolt the PS pump and zip tie it out of the way. You don't have to disconnect the hoses. They have some play.
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OK, got everything off. However, I think there's something wrong with the timing. I've included a picture, but bank 1-4 appears to have the intake timing off. The rear of the cam is not square like the other 3 cams are. The pic shows them, but the intake cam is rotated.
Is this a problem? It's the ONLY cam not square. But, nothing has shifted on the cam chain. |
I can't tell which bank that is so can't tell it if has the VANOS sprocket or not. Remember the VANOS varies the relationing in timing between intake and exhaust (thats what it does). You will have to put a big wrench on the flats on the cam (there are flats for this) and get it square to the head so you can fit the timing clamps.
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I see it now. Cylinder 1-4. The numbers stamped on the end are supposed to be up. Looks like it should.
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Yeah, I figured that out. My bad! Now if only the locks were any good, they suck. Got them from Bimmer Tool Rental, and I'm VERY disappointed in the cam locks.
Anyway, gotta wait until tomorrow to get a 27mm wrench. The adjustable isn't cutting it and we can't get the VANOS or exhaust cam bolt loose. So, I'm going to get the wrench and hopefully it will fit better and we'll be able to torque it more. Beisan swears those torx nuts are left-hand threaded, but jeez...to what torque?? I hate torx bits, I'm so afraid I'm going to strip them! |
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Doing the Exact Same Job
Ironically, I am at the same stage as you. Except I haven't removed most of my intake manifold yet. I will complete that tonight.
I managed to remove my lower cover without taking the dipstick out by bending it slightly out of the way. I would like to remove it to make installation easier.....but can t seem to get to the bolt clamping dipstick end to the oil pan. Is removing AC compressor mandatory....or just work it back in the way I worked it out. Also, do I replace the crankshaft seal with the with the lower timing cover off the engine....or after the timing cover is bolted down. Thought anyone?> |
I couldn't get close to that stupid bolt on the dipstick. The dispstick actually isn't as in the way as you would think. Kind of an irritation, but getting the cover out and back in was still easy with the dipstick there. I did learn that some PO cross-threaded the oil pan drain bolt. So I'll be ordering another one of those. Oh, and I found out that I got the wrong lower oil pan gasket from ECS Tuning. Kind of irritating, but probably all my fault. It's for an M62...just not OUR M62. Grrr...but since I have to get a new oil pan anyway, no biggie.
I didn't touch the A/C compressor at all. Didn't unbolt anything, didn't touch it. Just went around it for the bolts and the timing chain tensioner. I can't answer the crankshaft seal. I forgot about that until I had the crankshaft bolt back in...ooops. |
The torx bolt on the exhaust cam is left hand thread and is torqued to 92ft lb. The intake is 81ft lb. You will need the 27mm wrench and a long breaker bar. DO NOT use the cam blocks to hold the cams when taking the bolts on and off. You really need to review the Besian instructions.
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@CapeX5 - Yeah, I wasn't using the cam blocks that way. I just had an adjustable wrench instead of an actual 27MM. I did see Beisan specifically warned not to use the blocks for that purpose.
I was still disappointed in the blocks though. I expected them to hold the cams better, even with the blocks tightened down around the cam nut at the back they shifted more than I expected. |
Also, for anyone reading, if you need to get the nut on the back of the alternator for the lower timing cover then do yourself a favor and get a ratcheting and swiveled box end wrench. I picked up a set at Sears when I was getting other tools and it made get the bolt back on SO much easier. A real lifesaver.
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Thanks! Also means that you are actually ahead of me....:drinking: |
How you making out man
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OK, sorry I've been gone for so long. Two jobs, buying a house, anniversary cruise, and working on this thing while living with in-laws has been quite the chore.
Um...I want to burn this thing to the ground. I'll catch everyone up. I somehow completely destroyed the new VPG. Put everything back together, then as I was putting coolant in it it started leaking from the VPG like an open bottle. Well crappers. However, at this point I went on a cruise to the Bahamas for my anniversary. The FIL decided to help take it back apart while I was gone. I appreciate it, but he managed to snap off the nipple on the CCV that I had just replaced. So, I need to order a new CCV. Suck. Also, my first attempt at the VPG using gasket maker failed. Second attempt (with a lot more gasket maker) seems to have worked. However, now it's leaking quite well from the front of the larger cross-pipe in the water pump. It's a brand new water pump, so I'm not sure what to do here. Do the pipes only go in one way? However, I was able to patch things and get it started and out of the garage. Smoked like a pig and isn't running quite right, but I think everything is hooked back up right, except the CCV. I blocked the broken nipple and the hose, so I was hoping that would be ok to get it out of the garage... Anyway...thoughts on the water cross-pipe? Unlucky with a bad o-ring in the new water pump? It's a Meyle unit from FCP. |
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Well a mix of congratulations and holy shit that sucks.
Don't give up - take your time, definitely don't cut corners. Once you're finished, the sense of accomplishment and confidence you'll go another 100K+ will be worth it. I guarantee it! Take a break, but don't abandon the project :) Hope you have another vehicle to drive, that makes all the difference. I learned a long time ago, if I wanted to wrench on my cars, it's important to have a plan B to get to the parts store, work, etc. ....now I have a plan c, d and e but that's another story. |
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I am doing the valve cover gaskets, timing cover, valley pan gasket, cooling overhaul,engine mount, ac compressor (bearing noise on the compressor), etc. So my X is down for the next week to two weeks. When its done though and done right its a beautiful thing and the part I look forward to. Stay engaged and don't give up. |
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I replaced the POS China crap with a Genuine BMW unit. |
^^^This. Go with OE VPG, and OE quality WP - and the small issues should be disappeared.
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@TiAgX5 - Yeah, I may end up returning it. I got it from FCPEuro so it has the "warranty" on it so I may see how that works. There was nothing wrong with the old pump, but I figured since I had the new one I might as well replace it. I was thinking water pump would need to be replaced, so thank you for your input.
It appears FCPEuro has a BMW water pump for $160, plus the 2 o-rings and gasket. However, that gasket is much beefier than the paper gasket the Meyle came with. It does appear I got a crap water pump. I'll also order a new CCV unit. Getting the intake on/off is actually a piece of cake now, super easy. Well, assuming I put it back on correctly anyway. :-P It does run rough, but I figure I can address that once I get it to a state where it will run without gushing coolant all over the place. I do need to figure out that squeak though, that's a new one. I replaced the pulley wheel on the A/C belt pulley and that's where it sounds like it's coming from. Hey, maybe it's the A/C! Yay! Actually...maybe it's the water pump! Anyway, yes, I do have an extra vehicle. While I don't have options D/E yet, I'm getting there. I want to get the wife a new 3 series later this year to replace her 1 series. The 1 will become a fun play toy. While it does fantastic in the snow/ice with Blizzaks, the ground clearance for any debris or roads (Eastern Idaho doesn't believe in plows) is just too low. Plus, I want hers to be more reliable. |
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Perhaps pressure test the cooling system before starting and filling it up. That should help you identify any possible remaining issues, rather than trying to solve them over a hot messy engine. Based upon what happened to you, I am going to do that. (yes....I'm going slow as hell, but work is in the way). I'll be done this weekend though! |
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@Jay - Yeah, that's the nice part! I love having that warranty behind it.
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OK, so parts are arriving today. Found the culprit, a torn o-ring for the large cross pipe. Suck, well, new o-rings are going in once I get them. Also have a replacement CCV coming too, so now I'm just waiting.
Also, I need to review RealOEM, I feel like I'm missing a vacuum line somewhere. There are two nipples on the back of the CCV, but I only had 1 connected. I'm not missing anything, so I need to review and find where in the world those go. Oh, and I also put the injector clips on backwards to they weren't holding the rail onto the injectors, but actually preventing everything from seating correctly. So I'm fixing that too. Oops. |
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Glad you are locating the culprits. Sounds like youll have it up and running in no time. Did it throw any codes? That might provide a quick direction regarding anything disconnected. |
Yeah, there is a check engine light on. However, due to it not being able to keep coolant in I didn't want to let it sit and run. Once I can get it to hold coolant, I'll check codes again and see what's going on.
For the CCV, there are two nipples on the back. Both at the top, one on the right and one on the left. For RealOEM, I can only find one line running to the rear of the CCV. But, I can't imagine the other nipple is supposed to be open? This diagram shows the vacuum lines to the rear: RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog This diagram shows the CCV itself, but nothing goes to it. There is a note if I don't have a catalytic converter, but I definitely do. You can see the two nipples, one next to item #13, and one next to item #17. RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog Thoughts? |
when I did my E39's M62 the other nipple had a vacuum cap on it.
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@TECN1K - From what I can see, it wouldn't matter which is capped since they both run to the same place correct?
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I just ran to the garage to look at mine. Ill send a photo in a minute. I have two nipples on mine too (I'm talking about my BMW:bustingup). But the one to the upper left (facing the rear of the CCV as though in the driver's seat)....is capped off from the factory. Thus, I only have one vacuum line going to it. I believe you either lost the cap, or it is otherwise blocked off.
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@Spanker - Yes, thank you for confirming! Confirming both...that you're talking about nipples on the BMW (phew!) and that one is capped. I can dig through the old parts and hopefully I still have it. Either that, or gasket maker to the rescue again!
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Just to be certain and to give you an idea of what the cap looks like....
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@Spanker - OK, sweet! That's exactly what I needed and that's the same side I thought it should be on. Thank you very much for checking for me!
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OK, got everything back on. UPS finally delivered my parts at 8:45 last night...that was irritating.
Runs much better, everything seems to be good, EXCEPT temp gauge almost immediately goes full RED and the OBC shows -128* C. Grrr... I found another thread that seems to indicate the thermostat is most likely the culprit. Double and triple-checked the connections. Everything is good. Truck gets up to temp, no issues, hot air coming out of the vents. Now, if I watch, the temp gauge does read correctly for about 1 second when you turn the key to ON, before it jumps up to full red. I was able to watch the gauge change as the X5 warmed up, but something is not working correctly causing the full red condition. Would this be the thermostat or temp sensor? I'm leaning towards thermostat since the gauge does read correctly for a second. Thoughts? |
Try this, fairly certain it's your issue... My was doing the same, sit on cold for a second, the reach for the stars, blowing hot air fine once it warmed up, etc...
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ter-fixed.html |
@mam - Thanks for the heads up. I just started driving it since I knew it wasn't over-heating, and a couple miles down the road it started working. So, I'll watch it and see if it decides to go insane again, and if so I'll try the reset as you did.
Now I just need to figure out the CEL. Seems like the X5 is idling low, and there's a slight rhythmic gallop that wasn't there, but otherwise everything is working fine. |
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Did you do the "Crimping" procedure on the vanos? I think you are supposed to drive it 200 miles for them to break in according to the instructions. I don't know if that is your problem. Also, your computer will be in "learning" mode.....adjusting for optimum fuel air for your various rpm vs. airflow tables. Do you feel more power at the lower rpms? Any rattles at all on start up? Glad you got past those coolant issues! |
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@Spanker - so I ended up not touching the VANOS units. Mine don't make any noise, and dealing with the timing frankly freaked me out. So I replaced the main timing chain, and left it at that. I know it's not ideal, but frankly I was already scared just starting it after putting it back together. However, everything seems to be running fine.
It's a bit sluggish at low RPM, but I remember this engine is always happier higher in the rev range. I know it sounds weird, but there is definitely a pickup in power around 2500RPM. Since the battery was disconnected for over 30 days, I'm guessing there will be a period of learning. Any idea how long this will take? I'm having an issue with my scanner. I've always used Carly for BMW, both Android/iPhone, and while it can scan everything it cannot scan the engine computer. Don't know why, it just can't. So I need to find out what kind of scanner to get to read the engine codes. I'm hoping it's just something tiny and easy...but knowing my luck I'm not holding my breath. Everything seems to be running fine otherwise. Temp gauge has been fine for the past 2 days, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed there too. All told, I'm happy to get my X5 back! |
I stopped by the local O'Reillys on the way home today. They were able to check the codes, and they came back as P0011 and P0021. Based on what other have said, it appears I somehow did not get the timing back on correctly. I used the Bimmer Tool Rental kit and followed the directions on how to set everything up. Since I didn't remove the VANOS or the upper timing chains I didn't think I had anything to worry about. I re-timed everything with the camshaft blocks in place, the piston at TDC and used the pin in the flywheel. I'm confused as to what I could have missed. But...that doesn't appear to have been my luck! I had them clear the codes and I'll wait for them to come back. After driving for a few minutes after getting them cleared they didn't come back, but I'm not holding my breath.
So, seems like the only option is to take the covers back off and re-time them? If I'm not mistaken, that means taking the whole front back off including the lower timing cover? Or is there a much easier way to go about fixing this oopsie? Who knows, maybe I'll be an expert at ripping into this thing by the time I'm done. My other question is, apart from the slightly rough idle it runs fine. Is this something I can drive on for 3 weeks until I get into my house and have plenty of room and all my tools to dig in again? Or...is this a park it until then? |
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through the upper timing cover inspection hole. When I did mine, I removed the cam and flywheel locks and rotated the engine a few times and rechecked it. It was off due to chain movement. I did it again until I was able to get a consistent reading. |
@Spanker - This is why I'm so confused. I used the Bimmer tools to set the timing wheel adjustement and yeah, they seemed pretty idiot proof. They only connect one way and they're specific to each side. The cam locks were on, and as far as I can tell were on correctly in that nothing was actually moving.
I'm not familiar with the timing cover inspection hole...I'll have to see what I can find and how to check this. It doesn't appear my timing isn't off by much since it's generally running OK but clearly the computer thinks it's off. I'm curious, if the wheel is off by a bit will this cause the rough idle problem because the computer is trying to compensate to what it thinks is happening? |
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YUP!!! search on youtube regarding that inspection hole in the upper timing cover for the 4.4i. Its not terribly accurate, but if you are off a bit, it will be obvious. |
@Spanker - So they hope here is that the timing wheel is off just a bit causing the computer to adjust timing to match being the issue. That would be much better than having to take everything back apart and re-time it! I was kind of surprised at the process to put the timing wheels back on, it didn't seem as accurate as I would have liked. Am I the only one that thinks this?
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So I've been searching and haven't really found anything that shows the inspection hole in the upper timing cover. I'm still searching, however I do have a question. On one video I did find someone mentioned resetting the adaptation of the VANOS gear? Is that something I should have done, how is it done?
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OK, found the inspection hole. That's what that random screw that I didn't remove is for! That makes sense now.
I've also gone over all the timing procedures again, and I'm positive I did it correctly. Even the timing wheels, I used the Bimmer Tool Rentals kit. Are we talking about the wheels being off by fractions? Like the difference in size between the timing wheel locking pin and the hole? I also find it curious that BOTH sides are off since I'm getting a code for both sides. Wouldn't that be more likely to be a skipped tooth? Sorry, just kind of thinking out loud here. |
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OK, so I just read through Deansbimmer on his 4.4 resto build and I think I did the timing wrong. I know he mentioned turning the VANOS counterclockwise until it stopped and set the timing wheel. I didn't do that. Right now it still runs great, with the exception the timing is off. I'll probably hold off re-doing the timing for another month so I can get the house closed and moved, and then I'll have plenty of space and light to get it done.
Essentially I screwed up and need to read the book next time instead of just random web pages and looking at what pieces fit together right. Oops. Also, I need to figure out how to get the hood into its fully open mode, that was pretty awesome! |
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@Spanker - Your username seems especially appropriate at the moment. :doh:
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Finished Timing Guide Rails and more...but.......
After dragging my feet, I finally pushed myself and finished installing timing guide rails, valley pan gasket repair, new water pump, valve cover gaskets, all new hoses, oil seals, etc.
On start up, there was a bit of a rattle, but that was probably was due to oil starvation. Car started almost immediately. Ran very smooth. After a few seconds rattle went away and I haven't heard any rattles since. About a minute later the "service engine light" came on. Perturbed, I checked the codes and it was the P011 and P021 codes. That means the computer detected a discrepancy between the CPS and the timing wheels on the left and right engine banks. Next, I noticed a slight oil leak on the passenger's side. It was dripping on top of the air conditioning compressor. I believe it is the O Ring for the dipstick. F**k! Drove the car and it drove fine. Opened the water expansion tank and noticed tiny little brown bubbles. Head gasket? Nope. Put some of the water on a paper towel and sniffed it. Transmission fluid!!!!! So, the Beisan Vanos kit was a complete success. I changed the o-rings and crimped the vanos as per their instructions. Glad I did so. The engine is very very quiet and smooth. Checked transmission fluid. . . no water (phew!!!). Didn't lose much fluid. I removed the transmission heat exchanger, sealed off all of the water lines going to the transmission thermostat and added a Hayden air cooler. After adding the cooler, I heard the transmission making a lot of noise and it went into failsafe mode. I cycled the shifter through all of the gears and the sound went away. The failsafe warning also went away. I can only guess that a lot of air got pushed through the tranny making it lose pressure momentarily tripping the warning. Transmission temperature dropped about 20 degrees! (was same as water temperature before...now about 170 degrees) Yay! Apparently the failure of the heat exchanger occurs only when it got hot. Will not trust another heat exchanger with my transmission. Removed valve covers and marked timing wheels with a magic marker. My goal was to turn the wheels clockwise 1/16 of an inch at a time until I got the codes to go away. It worked on the first try for both sides. Its odd how little it was off. Just one width of the magic marker line was all that was needed. . The dipstick O ring looks like a real PITA to change. The leak has increased.:rolleyes: Soon will have my beloved X5 back in full form for the summer. It has been sitting for 2 years and I refused to sell it. The water pump disintegrated and i decided to fix everything on the engine. Got a lot of ideas from this forum. ;)The only thing I am worried about is the driveline and transmission. But, when and if it happens....Im going to rebuild it myself. Its got 197,000 miles and I intend to keep this truck another 200,000. At 300,000, I'll open her up again and change everything again to get that last 100k out of it.:cool: |
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Have you noticed that nearly everything single person who has done a DIY 4.4i valve timing ....gets the same exact code p0011 and p0021? The tool used to adjust the timing wheel (bimmer tool rental), is not accurate enough. I think a better approach is tif someone developed an electronic timing device that assists in timing the timing wheel to the cps. Or a way to fine tune it using software after getting close with the tool. There are just too many ways for the timing wheel tool to be off because of engine block metal casting discrepancies and the such. It truly is a sensitive adjustment. |
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OK, it's been a while since I last posted on here. But, here's where we're at.
I'm impatient and was frustrated so I took it to the dealer. :D I know some will be unhappy about that, but in the end I want to drive my X5 so I had a professional do it. No, it wasn't cheap but in the end I think it was the best choice. I got it back after 2.5 weeks with the following done: Valve Cover Gaskets Upper Timing Cover Gaskets Timing done (I think they said it was off 15*) Gasket for Tensioner Bolt (I guess I missed this) Those were the pieces of stuff I did they had to fix. Apparently I didn't "preload" the valve cover gaskets so they were leaking again. And the gasket for the tensioner bolt was also missing which was leaking. Also, their inspection showed the front lower control arms needed to be replaced so I had those replaced. I don't regret replacing all the cooling hoses and replacing a lot of parts, but I have learned to stay out of the engine. I feel much better about everything now and I should be good to go for a while. Now she runs great! I'm also still waiting for other parts to fail, like the window units. And I need to clean the passenger mirror...it searches around when in reverse. |
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