Who can help me verify this engine tick/knock? M62 (with video)
 

UPDATE #3 on page 2

UPDATE #2 ON PAGE 2 - sorry for continuing to bump this thread, just want to keep a complete document of my findings for future searchers

UPDATE #1 ON PAGE 2

Hello Xoutpost,

I have a 2003 x5 4.6is with 160k miles and it just recently developed this loud ticking/knocking noise. I just wanted more opinions on what it is but i am pretty certain it is the rod bearings...

Notes:
-car ran and sounded very smooth about a week ago. only noticed a knock at initial cold start up then it would immediately go away
-been driving the car about 4 days a week ~20 miles each day
-car knock started to stay when driving the car and has been getting worse
-checked oil level and it was low 2 quarts so I added oil hoping the noise was the hydraulic lifter tick. the noise persisted after adding oil
-Decided to do an oil change and found gold/copper colored shavings in the oil filter and housing (this to me seems pretty obvious that it is from the rod bearings)(oil used was castrol 10w30 fully synthetic)

This may be a pointless thread but i'd rather get more verification before i start tearing into the motor.

here is a video to help give you an idea:

at 00:49 seconds the tick goes away for a couple seconds
also at 01:33 the tick goes away when i rev the motor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncFRUzs1SXk

Thanks in advance!

-James

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t5...OTA4Nw%3D%3D.2


But really, that doesn't sound too good man. It's hard to tell from the video. Have you tired the hold screwdriver/stethoscope trick?

It may not be a Rod knock. But why was it 2 quarts of oil low to begin with? Thats alot of oil off the mark. I would imagine that if it was a rod knock that you would see some drop off in oil pressure or some oil warning light come on in the vehicle. Maybe its the timing chain up front. In any case you are going to have to rip down the front of the engine and see what you have.

I just wasn't smart about checking the oil. I checked the oil level when I bought it and it was at the half way mark on the dipstick and I did not check it over the past 2 months. I must be used to the warning on my e90 that tells me to add 1 quart. The low oil warning light never went on, on the x5 either.

I tried with a screw driver but can't really access much. I will go out and by a stethoscope. It is so difficult to tell where it is coming from

Have you tried the coil off procedure that I listed in another thread?

I would try Upallnight suggestion as well as connecting a oil pressure gauge to see what the actual pressure is. Good luck

There's too much happening/noise in there.

Gut feeling.....Sounds like loose spark plugs.

Maybe a timing chain tensioner? No fault codes with this noise? I've seen where an oil gallery was plugged and oil to that bank was restricted causing that kind of noise. This also caused a fault code.

I know those engines, they are great when they are running right, but suck when You have problems, be prepared to spend a lot of $$$$$$, or better off get rid of it, I hate to say that but.....

No codes, oil pressure light or anything. Just made sure spark plugs were tight as well and they are good... Damn that would've been nice haha. Going to drop the pan next and I will let you know what I find.

I don't mind doing the work myself because it's a 3rd car but if it's a rod bearing it will basically be a brand new engine so I guess I'll decide from there...

Could be oil pump related. Look up the threads on oil pump sprocket coming loose. It would still require you to drop the upper pan (the painful one).

These engines are really good engines. I would be really surprised that it has a spun bearing. There are countless examples of these vehicles with over 200K miles. If the engine was abused and starved of oil then this would be neglect and very well could have severe engine problems.

Had a little bit of time to remove the passenger side valve cover (where all the noise was coming from). I noticed a lot of slack in the smaller chain as seen in the pictures (roughly 8mm of slack). It was difficult to tell how much slack was in the main timing chain but I was able to push the chain tensioner towards the chain about 2-3 mm then put tension on the chain with my finger and the tensioner would retract back to the original position.

I did find a surprise partially covering one of the rear oil passage ways. Must have been from the previous valve cover replacement and nobody bothered to remove it. Take a look below.

I do not know of a way to test the hydraulic lifters to see if they are collapsed so im not sure what to do there..

Here are some pictures:

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psngymd7bq.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps6hdjh0mu.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psho5mbkkf.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psuqmaxvki.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...pslrixg6on.jpg

Can anyone guess what it is?

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psqh8ap89r.jpg

If you guessed a washer from on of the valve cover bolts you are correct...

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psvzmizwsz.jpg

Those tensioners use oil pressure so they will appear more slack with the engine off. But the oil pump has a check valve that should keep them at least partially pressurized. I continue to worry about your oil pump. You can put an oil pressure gauge on a port on the oil filter housing. I think the Bentley manual shows the procedure.

So I was looking around at the top of the timing chain today and it seemed like it was tensioned from the left side however, when I lifted up on the opposite side of the cam gear it was beyond loose. There were also scrape marks on the side of the timing chain cover. Also, I could see the plastic from the "U" shaped guide moving around when i shook the chain. Unless I'm mistaken i think its safe to assume this is whats making the noise... unless the tensioners really do loose this much tension without the engine running

Here is a video of how loose it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgyjGVpMPzg

That doesn't sound normal. They have a spring that works without any oil pressure. The oil pressure just keeps the chain tighter at higher rpm.

I think you are on to something!

Good day,

What you have here is the reversing rail (that U shaped rail) has lost all it's plastic and the chain is either working thru or has slid off the rail and rubbing the front timing chain cover... Thus, the tensioner is at it's limit with the increase in travel path... This happened to me to my 98 540i... Here are some pictures of that repair I did back then...

This is where it should sit (Obviously the one part in the other)...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j4...PICT1830-1.jpg

This is where yours is, or worse... Mine was here... And I couldn't fix mine right away... So, I made a temporary fix to put more tension on the chain... I moved the body of the tensioner in towards the motor more by putting a washer in the bottom of the cup that seal everything...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j4...PICT1831-1.jpg

This is what my reversing rail looked like...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j4...r/PICT2412.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j4...r/PICT2416.jpg

And the almost finished project...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j4...r/PICT2436.jpg

Okay, keep in mind that your M62 is newer than my 98 version... Your parts might be different... You have single VANOS and the timing job is a bit more intense... I have those tools if you need them... I had to rebuild my entire motor in the 2001 E39 in the signature block... But that rebuild was for a totally different reason... PO abuse!!

Cheers for now!!

You just need to do the new timing chain, tensioners, guide rail replacement as so many of X5s go through with the V8 engine. Not a terribly difficult job but tedious. You'll need the cam locking tool kit to make the repair.

Update #3

I appreciate all the input from everyone. I finally got some time to pull off the front timing covers and this is what I found.

-only one noticeable chip that fell off the u-shaped timing guide (side of the plastic guide seen in pictures)
-the plastic part of the guides were almost completely separated from the metal part of the timing guide but still in the correct location
-the lower timing cover was completely chewed up from the chain but I couldn't even get the timing chain into a position where it would do this unless the chain was very loose and drooped below the plastic guide walls.

One thing to note that is probably very important is that when i set the car to TDC and put the flywheel lock pin in I recall noticing that the passenger side camshafts did not seem to allign. The intake side camshaft looked off by about 20 degrees from the exhaust camshaft (the flat on this camshaft was aligned at the correct angle.) The driver side camshafts were aligned correctly. So possible one camshaft sproket has jumped? Or maybe the vanos was stuck advanced?

Thanks for looking! Here are the pictures:

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psffjnvigx.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psykovy4qb.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psp1yesgog.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psvbw1uzuw.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...pssqta2ask.jpg

your bank 1 intake cam is fine. The valve timing is so that when at TDC the valve springs will force the cam over. If you read, which before you do much else on this engine, Besian systems detailed instructions on what to do with VANOS etc, he talks about the cam rotation. Don't do anything else here until you research and become very familiar with this process. You will f this motor up quick if you don't do it exactly right. You have been warned

Yep i have scene that. I currently have the G.A.S. timing tool set and have read through their instructions. Just thought it was weird that the cams were not aligned at TDC. But now i'm seeing that it is normal when I read through again.

I am literally on step one of these instructions.

Jab, I was using the "factory" timing tools on my X and struggled with them on a regular basis. Had been looking at the GAS set and their design just made more sense to me. I finally broke down and bought their set. Glad I did. I have only used it once so far, but that was enough to nail the timing first shot and have not had to touch it since. You will love them. Just follow directions for the whole process and you will be fine. And another tip, replace as many of the gaskets,etc that you can while in there. It is a pain in the ass to tear it all apart after for some stupid leak that a cheap gasket or o ring would have taken care of. I speak from experience…...

Okay so very odd findings here. Timing guides look like they are in perfect condition. I also noticed that there is no oil seperator on the right bank behind the chain? I thought these were on all m62's. This car must have a serious oil pressure issue. It seems weird that there were absolutely no engine lights or low pressure lights on the dash.

I guess my investigation goes further. This will bug me if I never figure it out. Here are a few more pictures:

***There is a hole that is about 1" in diameter right behind where the tensioner is mounted that is completely clogged with sludge. Anyone no what this is for? Picture below. (left bank picture)***

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0zq42cdz.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...pstzpggcam.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps6yhb2e8z.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps6cnkruki.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psthr2tdek.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...pseyumx9zs.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psdndi1j8m.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...psj6kidayp.jpg

Oil separator for the 4.6is is located at the back of the engine on the outside. The M62 car engines had the oil separator on the inside of the timing covers.

Engine looks pretty clean to me. The pre-facelift 4.4 also uses the external (rear of engine) oil separator. Guess they needed some extra space for the conversion to AWD.

Would anyone be (hopefully) still reading this particular thread?


I seem to have a similar ticking noise from my X5 4.4.


I'd really appreciate to see any responses please..


Here is the link :


https://youtu.be/PWK_-UniSsk


Thanks,


Ozzie

It’s been a few years since I sold my 01, but it sounds to me that you have a combination of vanos noise (whoompa whoompa) and valve noise (maybe a stuck hydraulic lifter?) - the tick tick tick.

I’ve had good look with Rislone yellow oil additive to free stuck lifters. Essentially detergent oil. Sometimes you get lucky with it.
There’s lots written on vanos rebuild.
Not hard for an experienced mechanic, but pretty complex for a newby.

Thanks for your response. I am more interested in the 'tick tick' at this point. I have already tried Liqui Moly lifter additive without success. I will try what you suggested next. I think I will have to look at the lifters eventually..


Thanks again,


Ozzie

At one point, i pulled them all out and with some finagling, got them all free and working. Pricey enough I didn’t want to buy 32 new ones. I think I used a drill chuck to hold onto the small piece (which sits in a recess) while I worked the big end loose by smacking it against a board.

Hope the rislone helps!

Sounds exactly like my 4.6is. Previous owners video.

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview...a63aba91da.mp4

Chain tensioners supposedly done. Leak down test has a 80% loss of compression in one cylinder. Haven't found a long block so I drive around with it for a year now , as had the previous ownerfor 5 years. Need to replace the sparkplug due to fouling very half year or so...but hey it gets me around..:rolleyes: