CTEK Charger and the X5?
 

I just wondered about the safety of connecting a CTEK MXS 5.0 charger to the BMW X5 engine bay terminals to charge and condition the battery every month or so.

Normally i have removed the Battery completely from the Vehicle and charged it on the workshop bench, then re fitted it.
(I have done this, because of the some of the horror stories i have heard about people killing the Instrument Cluster when Jump Starting etc)

The CTEK puts out 14.7 volts @ 5 Amps for most of its charging cycle
Although its says it can put out 15.8 volts in Desulphation Mode.

Can anyone comment if this is Good Practice to keep our $$$ Batteries in top shape?
Or are there concerns with "In-Vehicle" charging?

Vehicle is driven daily, so it might be a waste of time doing this anyway?

Thank You

Not a CTek user, but I've been hooking up my Battery Tender low amp charger to the engine bay lugs since about Day 10 of owning this '01, nearly 15 years ago.

Never a problem...
GL, mD

Thanks motordavid, that is great to know.
Would you happen to know you Chargers output voltage and current?

Either way, the idea sounds safe enough.
I have noticed in BMW Dealerships, they all run tender leads to the showroom vehicles.
Well, our local dealer does anyway.

As you have done this for 15 years now, have you noticed a better than average life from your Battery?

SD -

No need to worry about voltage.
Just short of the charger going bad, it will go into trickle mode once it get's close to voltage. Then float/maintain. It should no ~cook~ your battery -- under the single assumption that the charger is good.

It's electronics though so things can go bad. Whether in 6 months or 6 years.

FWIW, I do hook up mine to give it a full absorption even now and then.
Look into their quick connects. I have those in all of the cars. So when I want to ~top it off~, I just hook it up via the already installed QC

If you use the car every day the chance of the battery sulfating is nil or none. Battery only sulfate if it sits from non-use.

Only time I use a tender on my X is during the winter when temps drops below freezing.

Oh, my concern wasn't the Battery, it was more any sensitive electrics in the BMW itself, that might not like an After Market charges voltages or pulses.

But from the sounds, seems ok to use.

Thanks upallnight, i appreciate what you are saying, although or X5 managed to kill a Federal Silver Calcium 900CCA 125RC Battery in just under 2 years.

So i am now wondering if this a good way to look after the 860CCA AGM battery i got to replace the calcium unit.

Can/Does the BMW alternator charge our Batteries to a 100% State of Charge?
Given enough driving time that is.

As posted before on this question, you can use a battery tender ("trickle charger") anytime your vehicle sits for an extended period of time. Mine sits on a charger 100% of the time. The constant 100% charged battery will last approx 50% longer than if you let it be drained by the alarm systems, constant demand that our vehicles draw when at rest, and short run cycles. Almost everyone agrees that having your vehicle on a battery tender will keep everything at 100%.

In my own experience, a BMW that sits 90% of the month, when put on a battery tender will have a battery that lasts 8+ years. Without one, the high drains and recharging cycles will kill it off in less than 3 years. AGM batteries will die off much sooner as their construction will not withstand multiple high discharge/recharge cycles. A slow drain over a few weeks followed by a high recharge will kill off a battery quickly. That is why most car batteries die off in three years. Parasitic draws only accelerate the problems, which is why you see lots of postings on this problem... Vehicles that are hard to start due to low battery voltage, often end up with other conflicting symptoms like multiple codes, error/warning lights on, all due to electrical issues and a dying battery. A VERY BAD COMBO and hard to diagnose.

Bigger is better (last longer) when it comes to batteries especially when they weigh in at 58# and you have to dig under everything and drag it out of the rear cargo area. You only want to do it once every 8 years....:bustingup

Now the question I have for the electronic wizards is "what is better for an X5? A battery connected and trickled charged constantly or a vehicle with the battery disconnected from the electrical system but on a tender?" I am beginning to think that having everything activated creates a potential issue long term on stored vehicles. Most car collections use a quick connect at the battery while on a charger standard practice. Thoughts? Or should I move this question to the SAE forum as it is totally theoretical? :popcorn:

RE: "Now the question I have for the electronic wizards is "what is better for an X5? A battery connected and trickled charged constantly or a vehicle with the battery disconnected from the electrical system but on a tender?" I am beginning to think that having everything activated creates a potential issue long term on stored vehicles. Most car collections use a quick connect at the battery while on a charger standard practice. Thoughts? Or should I move this question to the SAE forum as it is totally theoretical?"


^ Not an electrical tech here...old shade tree mechanic, and purely anecdotal.
Fwiw, I have had the '01 X or the '02 VetteVert on a Battery Tender brand maintenance charger for many years.

One of those cars is in the garage, in situ for several months per year.

I don't run the BT 24/7; I simply run it through an old fashion mechanical appliance timer set to come on for ~24 hrs a couple times per week, with the BT alligator clips attached to the underhood lugs, and electrical taped snugly so the passing mouse can't knock off a clip.

Have never had an 'electrical prob'/dead batt in either car over many years of doing this winter regime, to either of them. Whichever car it is, starts & runs fine 5 months after sitting.

I try not to overthink this stuff too much...;)
GL, mD

I've done that trick myself with a Deep Cycle 100AH Camping Battery
Only it was a 24hr timer just set to come on for 1 hour a day (4amp charger)

To answer the question regarding a battery on a daily driver, yes 3 or more weekly runs in a X5 of trips of more than 60 mins, will keep the battery within a full state of charge. Making the assumption that you are driving over 40 miles per hr average. Idling, short trip lengths, stop and go traffic with all the electrical loads on (lights, A/C, Blower motor, wipers, stereo pumping, etc) will NOT charge a battery but will in fact accelerate the drain on the battery. Nor will it allow the engine to burn off all the water (moisture) in the oil pan so the oil separator will freeze up as soon as winter comes back.

Wait, you live in the upside down world of the globe. You are in winter now, sorry. :nanana:

The vehicle does a week of short trips
Then on Weekends it does 300km round trip

So it should be ok.
The OEM Battery lasted 7 years
But we have been through 2 Batteries in the space of 4 years since

WARNING!!!!!

Here is a tip, do not use a CTEK charger on AGM and RECOND mode at the same time.
Unless you would like to kill your AGM Battery over night!

This was my concern about these Chargers and having them connected while the Battery was in the vehicle!!!
Thankfully, i killed another AGM Battery that was out of the vehicle
Before killing the one in it and probably some expensive sensitive other stuff.

AGM Battery, really dont like voltages over 14.4v or 14.7 if its cold.

The CTEK in AGM mode, with RECOND mode also selected provides 15.8 volts @ 1.5 Amps.

You can expect your $$$ AGM to be dead by morning.
Dead as in killed, toss it in the bin.

As to what 15.8volts does to anything else in your BMW, i have no idea, but its probably not good.

You have been warned.

FYI: CTEK does mention which chargers/modes are NOT built/made for AGM batts, so please read instructions carefully before you buy/connect to batt.
I've for 10 plus years been using a CTEK charger on my cars without ever taking batts out of vehicles and have NEVER had an issue and I leave them connected for months at time, or sometimes just over night.

Thats an interesting point

As the Owners Manual and Retail Box i have does not tell you anywhere which setting NOT to use with AGM.
In fact, it actually shows you in the 8 Stage Chart exactly what that setting will do?
Why publish it if its death for your battery? Or not meant to be used?

Instead, it says in small print,
"RECOND for use with Wet and Calcium Batteries"
It actually says nothing about which Battery not to use that setting on.

I agree, what i have done is User Error and worse, i had actually read that definition of RECOND on the box a week ago. And had made a mental note about it.
Obviously when you are running around the workshop going from Battery to Battery, the mental note failed.
Yes, an expensive mistake.

The really sad point is, why isn't there a Software Lockout??
So if you select AGM, you then can not select RECOND.

I mean come on, CTEK are the Battery experts right?
They bothered to fit a Reverse Polarity Check
And a Low Voltage Check
How hard can it be? Especially when it means Death for you Battery.

Please see below, they even give you the 8 Stage walk through for AGM+RECOND for both Bike and Car??

https://s32.postimg.org/tzqb9uc85/Sc...5_43_52_PM.png

Worse is this.....

https://s32.postimg.org/ml0zhgqcl/Sc...5_42_35_PM.png

Where it states AGM mode is for 14-160AH... But a have a 7AH AGM Bike Battery.
So what happens when you Select Bike+AGM??
Are you going to cook your 7AH AGM Battery?

Could you please show me where it says this?
I can not find what ever it is you are referring to.

Thanks

hey Salty_Dog, I have in the manuals for both my CTEK tenders on pages 2 & 3 that these chargers 7002 and 3300 are to be used (in bold letters here) with Lead-Acid batteries only.
http://smartercharger.com/wp-content...US-3300_us.pdf

http://smartercharger.com/wp-content...US-7002_us.pdf

I can't find a manual for your model posted, BUT since you found online pics of the charging cycle, I'm sure your model IS good for AGM tending... BUT I'm just wanting others to know that NOT many models, or all models can do AGM. So read the manual first to be safe.

You do realise that Lead Acid is an AGM Battery right?
Just a different form, but its still Lead Acid. VRLA, look it up or read the manual :)

And your Manual specifically say they CAN be used with AGM, its on page 9.

So what was that about reading the Manual first??

And here is the manual for mine.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...27521224,d.dGo

Please show me where you have read the CTEK chargers are not for AGM batteries?

It's just a battery tender/charger guys.....no need to complicate things.

SD, you learned the hard way. I lost 2 ~high end~ AGM's last year while troubleshooting electrical issues. We're talking about $900 in lead lost..

Anyhow, agm's are more ~sensative~ when it comes to batteries. Wet Cells can take a higher voltage, burp and be fine. FWIW, SOME AGM's like to even be charged at high amp rates like 40-50 amps when deeply discharged.

There is no universal rule when it comes to batteries. However, the one rule I would follow is keep it at 14.7 MAX on AGM on the charge profile for AGM's and you can use higher maintenance voltages on wet cell, but IMO do it ONLY if you think you need to. 1st order would be to just give it a full charge on your charger, see if she holds and then IF you believe you may need to add a battery desulphate into the process, then do the recondition.

Salty, I digress and hang my head in shame... I did NOT know an AGM was still a Lead Acid battery. Never thought about it before to be honest.

Thats about it jsoto

The only reason i tried RECOND mode at all, was the wonderful blurb in teh CTEK Manual telling you how you should do it ONCE A YEAR.....
Considering i had never done it, i thought i would, as the Manual made me believe i was doing a good and right thing.

BTW, since i brought this to CTEK in Swedens attention, they are re writing their manual....

Email response from CTEK Sweden here:

OT, but always best to also read the owners manual when using ~high end~ batteries as well. For example, another manuf. recommends for maint. charges on their agm, they recommending holding at 15 1/2 volts, which is much higher than even the ~standard 14.7~ for AGM's. Per the previous post, not all batteries are the ~same like~ and it's always best to RTFM.

FWIW, SD, I've had a AGM battery in my care since the 3rd year of ownership. Had had the X for about 13 years now ! After losing out of 2 $$ AGM during that funky electrical issue...I went back to a standard wet cell. Figured even if the X was in the mix for another 18 months or so, I should get at least 5 years out of any decent wet cell.

Sorry to butt in but Can you use a charger to recharge the battery in the car using the under hood connectors? or is it better to take the battery out of the car altogether to charge it?

Under the hood terminals are fine.

Thanks but i just now took the battery out to charge it. haha
So many electrical problems with it anyway i felt that was safer.
I just need to figure out which alternator i need to buy to replace the one i fried at the weekend. haha.

If your alternator is working properly and the battery is to spec and holding a charge there should be no reason that you need to charge the battery based on the miles you are driving.

Nope, they are not as safe as others like the Noco Geniuses

Had 2 Batteries killed by a CTEK charger.
Proof in my Garage

From my testing by keeping 49 batteries charged EVERY DAY the best single battery at a time charger and maintainer is this :

Pulsetech Xtreme Auto Charger

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1122_.jpg

Its not the best fast charger or jumpstarter but it is the best at keeping a battery topped off and healthy. The desulfator function on this unit WORKS. I have brought several batteries back to life with it.

I bought mine here :

http://amzn.to/2COR8oW


One way you tell if a charger is actually desulfating the battery is to look down in one of the cells. If you see stuff floating in the acid after charging with it then its actually doing something. 99% of the chargers that claim to desulfate don't actually do anything. Which is easy to tell by looking at the clear battery acid. Let this puppy loose on a sulfated battery and it will peel chunks of crud of the plates. You can see it working.

ta for reply, the ctek mx5 though has done me good with my wet lead acid bosch s5 plus....been using it this time of year for the past couple of years to keep it topped up as lower temps and school run driving style means it just ain't getting charged enough.....

I've got like 4 cteks on deck - for the respective battery size. Two 4.3 amp, 7 amp and a 25 amp.

Sorry, google it. Look at the guts of a Ctek and look at the guts of a Noco. Noco has great marketing.....consider how many OEM's choose ctek and stick their logo on them.....

Actually the largest install base is pulsetech not ctek by far. Since the military uses pulsetech and has for years.

This is from Answer To The Question: Battery Desulfators - Do They Work? - Blog -

I have the CTEK 3300 for quite a few years and hook it up to my Z3 year round. The only confusion I have is whether to use the snowflake mode or the regular car mode.

Snowflake is for AGm batteries and or if you are happen to be charging in ~really cold weather~, they say it's fine. Basically higher voltage. I would err on using snowflake only for AGM

@Salty Dog, are you saying based on cteks email to charge the agm battery we need to set it to "motorcycle mode" so to speak and select the agm option?to charge a car battery?

@SaltyDog can you make sense of CTEKS reply to a question I asked?they told you that you need to use MC mode+agm and they tell me to use CARmode+AGM



From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of SupportMail <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: Product information advice on CTEK MXS-5.0 how to charge correctly and agm [ ref:_00D0Y1Ilwv._5001vlg8KQ:ref ]

Hi

You can with good result charge a 100Ah AGM battery - but you need to use CAR +AGM settings.
MC mode is too week for a 100Ah battery, charging only with 0,8A. CAR mode is charging with 5A.


Best regards
Åsa
CTEK Support

--------------- Original Message ---------------

Sent: 01/11/2018 16:48
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Product information advice on CTEK MXS-5.0 how to charge correctly and agm

resending with image i refer to in previous mail...
________________________________

Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 5:41 PM
To: Info.se på ctek
Subject: Product information advice on CTEK MXS-5.0 how to charge correctly and agm

Hello please advise, I have read that to safely charge a car AGM battery (100ah capacity) with the MXS 5.0 I set the charger to "motorcycle mode" and then choose the AGM option as in chart?

Hi there guys, sorry for reviving 100 years old topic, but I was searching online, and couldn't find any reasonable answer, neither in English nor German.

Concerning chargers, I have for years now some old China 5A charger and it works well when you need to charge up your battery.
But now I was thinking of getting something that I could use for some simple coding, error-reading, headlight adjustment, and other stuff where you need to have your ignition on. And this guy came up: CTEK PRO 25S (just the EU version for me). It's a 25A charger with the "supply mode."

https://www.ctek.com/uk/battery-char...room/pro25s-uk

Has anyone had any experience with it or some similar chargers?

Personally, I'd rather get a NOCO charger. I've had multiple CTEKs die on me.

Edit: I have the 10A charger / supply and several of the little 1A trickle charger / tenders.

I've used older similar 25 A model CTEK charger for many years without problems. In constant use some 7 A CTEK models have failed on me after a few years. If I would have to choose now I would probably go with Victron Energy blue smart charger.

Actually coding these older vehicles doesn't require power source. It takes such a short time and coding is not so voltage dependent. Programming/flashing is a different thing where stabile voltage is paramount.

NOCO chargers are a bit pricey here in Europe. But this Victron Energy Blue Smart IP65 12V/25A looks very interesting. And it's available here. It's even cheaper than CTEK. :wow:
I'll definitely check CTEK and Victron a bit more before I decide which one I'm gonna get.

I agree. And for that, I would say, none of these chargers are the best (if any) option.

But since I'm still learning a few tricks here and there with various software, it happened to me more than once (with E46) to have a dead battery in the end (especially playing with ISTA-D). And once with E53, and that was pain in the a**.
Plus, when I'm on the road, the car sits sometimes for more than 3 months in the garage, so I'm kind of looking for something to kill two birds with one stone. For that these two, CTEK PRO25S and Victron IP65 12/25 sound promising.

EDIT:
With Victron, it looks like you can set voltage. If it stays stable, and you have 25 Amps you can maybe even do some more stuff than simple coding or battery charging and maintenance. :wow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrzt...el=UnboxMyLife