Reinforcement Plate Bolts: Are they really $16 each?
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2005 X5 4.4i V8
So, I took the plate off to get to the starter since the battery was dead and I couldn't get into the car. I got into the car and have a new battery and need to put the plate back on. I have read many posts about these bolts/fasteners being 1 time use. I have seen old posts where these bolts used to be $3 each. Are they really $16 each now? This X5 was not driven hard and the bolts have no real wear at all. Please take a look and let me know if you think that I'm safe to use these bolts again. I just bought the vehicle and the radio doesn't work. I was told that the amp needed to be replaced. I believe it got wet. The car has an extended warranty and I just need to get it to a shop so that they can check out the amplifier and maybe order a new one. Anyone know where I can get some cheaper screws? Would still like to use what I have if I can. Thank you in advance. |
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I wonder if they can be replaced with reusable ones of the same dimensions? I'm pretty sure Tacoma Screws would have them. If the sub-frame bolts are reusable, I wonder why not these? What would be so special about that reinforcement plate? And why did BMW specify non-reusable bolts?
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I know there are Yays and Nays but I went to Ace and got proper 10.8 grade bolts along with nuts and washers for around $25 IIRC.
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On the radio, if it is still getting wet there, it is likely to be a problem with the hose leading from the left rear corner of the sunroof. Common problem on these cars, easy to test, easy to fix. Whatever it is, of course you should make sure the leak is fixed before replacing the stereo. |
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I have re used mine. And I think I have read most of the threads regarding this issue. In none I have read have I seen an explanation of what kind of engineered task that plate provides that necessitates the use of a TTY one time bolt! I don't want to start a whole pissing match on this, but would be very curious as to why. While I was working on my 01 I ran quite a while with the plate off and didnt' notice anything going on. Inquiring minds want to know....
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This is why some folk get creaking from the plate when the bolts aren't tight - the plate is pulling sideways on opposite corners and the bolt-to-plate joint creaks and groans. |
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A smaller bolt, like this, has more compliance than a bigger bolt would have. Maybe they needed that. Head bolts are often TTY for this reason. A 10.9 bolt that is already torqued past its yield stress is, by design, close to breaking. Maybe there is an intention for it to break away on a collision, as part of the crash design. Making your customers pay $100 for bolts each time the pan is removed may make financial sense. And it may dissuade some DIY mechanics from getting into the car more than they maybe should. Using M10 bolts may have saved them a couple of dollars over M12 bolts when initially built. And maybe they had a mandate to not spend a penny on lifetime beyond 100k miles. So while I re-use mine, and think I know enough to let me do it safely, I'd feel much better if I knew the true reason they did it. I doubt we'll ever know for sure. |
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I have to remove this plate since I have to get to the oil pan to remove all the plastic bits from my failed timing chain guides. I'm going to reuse the bolts and just torque them down super tight, so I guess we'll see what happens. No way am I ever paying that much for some bolts.
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Welds on tubular steel like this are very strong when compressed or stretched but not when twisted; the steel tends to fracture on the tube body along the weld line (the weld is often stronger than the thin-walled steel tube). Lean way back on the rear two legs of a welded steel chair for a bit and see what happens... :rofl: Now bolt a square piece of thin alloy sheet to the legs on one side (or both), using four bolts and see if you can lean back for longer. The thin sheet will prevent the "square" steel frame from becoming a parallelogram, breaking the welds and collapsing. the sheet doesn't have to be thick, as all the forces are in the plane of the sheet. Just like on the E53... Need good bolts though (able to withstand high sheering forces), also like on the E53. |
I think the main purpose of the plate was to act as a drip pan for any oil leaks from the oil pan, or transmission. Why else would they add a foam piece on top but to absorb all the oil. After all, when you are trying to sell an upmarket product, you don't want oil leaks on the marble tile floors in the garage.
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It would appear to this pair of eyes to be both structural as well as functional. Note the comments about tubular steel strength at welds for the structural functionality.
It also functions as a "skid Plate" for any off roading type activities where something could impact and damage the oil pan. Would have been nice to have something going all the way back or another plate for the transmission pan protection :dunno: :dunno: Yeah, I would reuse the bolts for this plate application, however, for a bolt such as the crank pulley bolt, I would strongly consider replace that one. Mike |
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The discussion about these bolts never makes sense in my pea brain. It always stems from they cost to much and from there it goes to all the guesses as to what the plate is for and why it is OK to use the bolts again and usually includes something about a BMW ripoff. I have never seen a post by someone that actually knows for sure why BMW states not to reuse the nut/bolts. That seems to get lost in the shuffle and in the end most reuse the bolts.
I think it is clear the plate is a functional contribution to the integrity of the suspension. I think the plate is part of the handling capability, keeping the suspension from folding under in extreme conditions, contributes to the life of some of the moving suspension parts and contributes to safety in a heavy side impact. I never reuse them just because that makes more sense to me. |
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But there are a lot of noobs coming on this forum because now these X's are affordable to a segment of the population that couldn't afford them before.
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Grade 8 3/8X2 inches, get (1) 2 ¼ inch one just in case. The 3/8 is a couple of thousandths in diameter smaller but has a higher tensile strength than the 10.9 ones.
6 bolts, 12 washers, and 6 nuts. These are what used. I have 10K on them and had the stiffener plate off for the transmission rebuild. No problems yet with a heavy foot. |
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We've seen plenty of posts of people reusing with no issues and a few where a rattle was detected. I'll be reusing mine, and in the event of a rattle, replace them with aftermarket. Buying $16 bolts sounds way too much like buying $100 HDMI cables to me. |
Its the fact that people are absolutely outraged at the price of these and do not look at the 'Search' function of this site, thinking they are the first and only person to be thinking "Hey, $16 bucks is a lot for a bolt" astounds me. Still, I am possibly guilty of asking the same questions over and over again to my wife.
Bolts, IMO - Use them again, don't over torque them OR if you have more cash than you need... be my guest and buy them. Hell, get them gold plated whilst you are at it. In the uk I ordered all 6 for 37.00GBPs which I thought was expensive so cancelled the order after some investigation. Merry X5mas to you all. |
Well theyre not $16 theyre now almost $19 retail.
Wait to see price jump when Trump is sworn in, im sure I heard the Trump protestors saying the prices will double on these bolts. |
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oh oh, wading into to politics on a car site. Danger, Will Robinson, Danger!
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That makes me laugh, last time in the US I had a drive of the Escalade... I mean... its an aircraft carrier on wheels and the styling was as offensive as a punch in the face... the the interior had AWFUL plastic. But.. I loved driving it. Something about driving the right car in the right place, in Italy, you HAVE to drive a Alfa Romeo for example. In the UK the X5 has a bad image problem, Range Rovers only viewed slightly better but theses are very large cars on our roads. Can't see me sneaking down a country lane in a Escalade with a car coming the other way. I guess what I am trying to say is, for me, right car, right place. If I lived in the US, would I go X5 again?? hmm annoyingly... Because I would be homesick, I would go X5 but I would fantasise over a bigger truck. Any back on to bolts. At $19 dollars per bolt maybe I should call my contact in China to bang out a 1000 bolts for me and becoming rich quick. Even if I flog them for 1/3 of the price. |
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That makes me laugh, last time in the US I had a drive of the Escalade... I mean... its an aircraft carrier on wheels and the styling was as offensive as a punch in the face... the the interior had AWFUL plastic. But.. I loved driving it. Something about driving the right car in the right place, in Italy, you HAVE to drive a Alfa Romeo for example. In the UK the X5 has a bad image problem, Range Rovers only viewed slightly better but theses are very large cars on our roads. Can't see me sneaking down a country lane in a Escalade with a car coming the other way. I guess what I am trying to say is, for me, right car, right place. If I lived in the US, would I go X5 again?? hmm annoyingly... Because I would be homesick, I would go X5 but I would fantasise over a bigger truck. Any back on to bolts. At $19 dollars per bolt maybe I should call my contact in China to bang out a 1000 bolts for me and becoming rich quick. Even if I flog them for 1/3 of the price. Merry X5mas! |
OK...I am not bgoing to ask if I should or shouldnt use these re-use these bolts :) but I do have a question relating to them.
How the heck do you get access to the nuts on the upper side when putting them back? I really struggled to get them out and at the weekend am planning to re-assemble the car after swapping the turbo and frankly am dreading getting access to all the nuts, a couple are accessable via the wheel arch but not all. |
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You will get used to the access points. Once you do it can be whipped on and off quickly. I use a flexible ratcheting wrench (spanner to you fine gentlemen) on the nuts and a ratchet (or impact gun) on the bottom. Then a torque wrench for final torque.
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No worries, if the car is nice and high should be easier. if you are getting the turbo out, at the same time I had a look at my Manifold and inspected it, it was cracked and letting gasses past. Ended up getting a cast iron, which is as heavy as hell and cheap as chips (£68.00 with gaskets) I did notice the power was coming in sooner, about 1700RPM rather than about 2500RPM, with the cast iron one. Anyway thats off topic. Good luck! Let us know how you get on.
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What Lamby said :iagree:
Also as a tip for others needing this plate out of the way for any work: remove three bolts and loosen the 4th. Then pivot the plate out of your way (strategically select bolt #4 for your needed clearance). When finished, pivot plate back into position and reinstall all bolts or change them if you choose to follow the technical guidance (personally, I don't replace). Mike |
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Has anyone considered getting ARP bolts that match the thread pitch and length?
Those would be a one time purchase a reusable. The crank bolt is the same on my Mustang (although how often do you remove your crank, ha but I had to it 2-3 times already! lol) and I purchased ARP which can be torqued down 3-4 times before replacing it. |
Has anyone considered getting ARP bolts that match the thread pitch and length?
Those would be a one time purchase and reusable. The crank bolt is the same TTY on my Mustang (although how often do you remove your crank, ha but I had to it 2-3 times already! lol) and I purchased ARP which can be torqued down 3-4 times before replacing it. |
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I noticed that if I get on it with my impact, that I don’t need to really hold the nuts with anything. 7/10 times once it breaks loose, the impact get it out faster than the nut unsticks from frame.
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I've always been able to get a thin open end, a box wrench or a couple of fingers on the nuts and do the same to install the bolts. I use a ratchet on the bolt side. It's one of those tasks that I take a bunch of wrenches under the X5 but I always have to go back to my tool box for the right one. Before I start I say-- this to will pass.
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OEM uses M10x55, wonder if these would work, available in Chromoly and SS.
I believe you need 6 of them: https://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-de...?RecordID=2946 |
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Those look good. If I were to replace mine, I'd prefer those over the BMW $$$ ones, even if as a matter of principle vs. BMW marketing. Here are the specs on the BMW bolts, so you can see exactly how they differ: Threads, rating: M10 - 1.5 x 55mm, class 10.9. bolts: 16mm hex head with captive flat washer. BMW PN: 31101096987 nuts: 16mm hex nut with flange. BMW PN: 33306760587 First thing to know is that even the magic BMW ones are regular high strength bolts. Not blessed by the Pope or anything. Not specially made for the stiffening plate. They are just bolts and nuts as specified above there. I see those ARP ones are 5mm longer. Should not be a problem, especially if you add a washer to make up for the fact that the ARP ones don't have one. The ARP ones don't specify Class 10.9, which I consider weird. Class 10.9 means something, and 10.9 will be on the head of the bolt and on the face of the nut. The torque value they specify does suggest it would be strong enough. Maybe they are Class 10.9, and it is marked on the bolts, but ARP does not advertise it, which like I say seems weird. ARP specifies 73.2 Nm as the torque value Bentley manual, p.020-4 says for a Class 10.9 M10, torque to 66 Nm The stiffening plate bolts (those bolts for that application) say 56 Nm + 90* The torque spec for this application relies on some yield, and if you do have a Class 10.9 bolt, the plastic deformation / work hardening can be assumed to be as the design engineers intended. But if you now use a stronger bolt (torque spec on these ARPs is 10% higher ; and the torque spec is typically chosen based on yield = when plastic deformation begins), going to 56 Nm and then doing the 90* beyond that will give a different result. So I think a regular Class 10.9 bolt would be better for this application - yes those should be easy to get. No doubts about anything if getting non-BMW bolts that meet the above spec. And if using the ARP ones, I would torque to the 73 Nm bolt spec and no further, and expect that to be just fine. And that is similar to what I do when re-using my BMW bolts - I torque to 66 Nm, without doing the extra angle. |
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Get a set of stubby gear wrench.
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Going to be doing the front diff fluid so the plate is coming off.
If reusing the stock bolts what are you guys torquing them down too? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
Being new to the e53 world, I must add... the e83 (X3) has four stiffener bolts and the nuts are captive. I was disgusted when I went to remove the plate on my e53!
AM. |
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Just my way of doing it... access isnt to bad either but depends on your engine. Mine is the 3.0 Diesel Turbo. |
Here are replacement bolts for $2.69 each if you want to replace: https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/11115685?r=~%7Ccategoryl1:%22600000%20Fasteners%22 %7C~%20~%7Ccategoryl2:%22600001%20Bolts%22%7C~%20~ %7Ccategoryl3:%22600015%20Flange%20Bolts%22%7C~%20 ~%7Csattr01:%5EMetric$%7C~%20~%7Csattr06:%5E%22Cla ss%2010.9%22$%7C~%20~%7Csattr02:%5EM10-1.5$%7C~%20~%7Csattr03:%5E55mm$%7C~
AM. |
Better than BMW prices for sure. Thanks for that. Should help those who want to replace them but don't due to cost. :thumbup:
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Depending on what one is doing you can remove all bolts except one and then swing the plate out of the way instead of completely removing it. Especially helpful if working alone.
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I just ordered a dozen new M10x1.5 - 60mm flange bolts in grade 10.9 (5mm longer than OE) and a dozen flange nuts from Bolt Depot. I found their prices significantly cheaper than Fastenal that I previously referenced. I needed a couple M10 130mm bolts for my junkyard trailer hitch and that led me to needing to place an order.
The bolts are $0.93 and the nuts are $0.21. Shipping is reasonable - I had several other things and the shipping was $6.80 total. https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-De...?product=17513 If you're feeling guilty about re-using your $20 BMW bolts, this would be a much more economical alternative. AM. |
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AM. |
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How about adding a washer or two for the front locations |
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