random multiple mossfire when cold
 

tested coils, all within spec. replaced anyway thought maybee heatsoak and carbon tracing. cleard up for a bit. then back when cold. put dielectric grease in boots. still missfire.new plugs cleared for a bit, still miss fire. lean code. one bad CCV valve. replaced. cleared for a bit. biggest improvement was clean Maf. cleared for a while. then put premium in it. no difference when cold. sprayed allover engine to find vac leak. Nothing. still stumble when cold. when warmed up, no codes. no oil in plug wells. maybe enough in each to soak a Qtip. this thing runs like shit when itis cold. no exhaust smoke.......?!?! any suggestions?

Fuel supply problem? DISA? I've had both and each caused the same symptoms.

Can you drive down to 0 miles to empty? (You can't if fuel pump is weak). DISA when bad usually clicks like crazy


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Please explain DISA

IDK about 0 miles. Havent had on the road that long.

https://youtu.be/c-jstMRxTes

The DISA valve changes the intake airflow and if it breaks will cause a bad air mix and it will run very rough. I thought I lost a spark plug coil.

I would also pull the MAF plug to see if the baseline mix program will change the rough cold operation.

From the video you'll see the DISA valve. I think when it breaks it usually makes indecent clicking. I'm not sure if you can get a diagnostic test by unplugging DISA similar to MAF.

If DISA ends up being the problem, I would repair with a metal vane for 1/3 the price of a replacement

Totally different on a V8

OP's car: "Lastly the reason why i am here, 05 x5 4.4. Purchased for pocket change and trailered home."

:iagree:

Good catch :thumbup:

Could be anything. Could be a vacuum leak or a cold solder joint that opens up when it is cold, but close up once heat from the engine warms it up.

Good luck with trying to fix this problem.

is the DISA on the back of the intake on this? the motor that changes the intake runners? it in a n62 4.4 V8.

Ok, read that no disa. I have tested for leaks. No vaccume leaks. Goes like stink when warmed up. Barely get is clear and stay running when cold.

Compared to my m70, & 2 s62's n62 seems to be a nightmare. No one can give diffinitive solutions for problems.

Ambient temperature? What's the coolant temp when it finally runs well? How long does it take to achieve? You said MAF clean helped for a while so possible that it is defective? I would try unplugging and see if it runs smoother. Then you need to confirm to have proper fuel pressure. Maybe the pump can't output properly until it warms up. That's my best bet. You need 50psi at the fuel rail.


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Oh you have an N62. Could be the intermediate levers since it only occurs when it is cold. When it is cold and it is misfiring, if you shut the engine down and restart it does it continue to misfire until it warms up? If it stop misfiring after the restart, you need intermediate levers repair/replace job.

05 x5 4.4. Purchased for pocket change and trailered home

No such thing as a Cheap BMW. BMW are like boats, you're happy when you buy it and happy when you sell it. They are just money pits. Take this advice from a former Boat Owner. LOL

i understand the boat thing been there done that for 26years. i ran x5 around town for about 5 weeks untill coolant crossover shyt the bed. since i unhooked battery and fixed coolant crossover i have had the missfire when cold. if i shut off and restart when cold it still missfires. do you think that the hard reset wiped the software update?

There is one thing I don´t understand regarding the levers: why should they been replaced, if the misfiring stops after a restart of the engine?

It´s still cold and if they are worn, the would still cause misfiring.

Otherwise I would restart the engine and everyhing would be fine ;)

Do a Google search on intermediate lever in BMW N62 engine. BMW had a recall for this problem down under.

I already read about it, but that´s the point I don´t understand.
The are worn and you have a mechanical problem or there aren´t?! But if you read about the levers you will always find the option restarting the engine will help.

But I don´t understand why!

when i restart still missfire.

so general consencious on random miss fire when restarted is vaccume leak? i did smoke test. replaced ccv , sprayed with carb clean no changes in rpm. if leaver are worn when restarted miss fire is gone? or not? seems like only after warm will missfire be gone. but let sit for 30min, miss fire back again. i did not pull valvetronic servos when i did coolant crossover. and BTW, the factory had larger chunk out of the o-ring in front cover. so common problem.

Did I miss: what were the P codes?


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just random multiple missfire. a few codes from last week were lean bank 1 and lean bank2 but those are gone.

I got those when my CPS failed. I also had similar codes when my wife's fuel pump died.

Drive down to zero miles DATE (or at least single digits): do it where you can phone a friend for a couple gal of fuel or bring a gas can in the "trunk" in case it's the fuel pump.

I don't know why it would change when warm but the fact the fuel pump runs 100% of the time the engine is running it could be as simple as once it warms from from use it works better.

The fuel delivery system on E53 will not deliver the last 1/8 of a tank once the fuel pump gets to "end of life" an "soft fails" the usual symptoms: misfire on WOT, weird cold starts and of course "running out of gas" with as much as 1/4 of a tank (in my case about 75 miles DTE like clock work: happened twice before I figured out the fuel pump was weak not dead).

You can either verify you have enough fuel pressure coming back to the left side of your tank (I forget the requirement) or simply drive the car down to single digits DTE. An x5 will starve of fuel when it can't supply both enough pressure to run the engine (50psi) *and* supply enough volume at pressure to syphon the gas from the left side of the tank when below 30L remaining. It's very sensitive to this and as it starts to fail you might stall at 5-10 DTE then 20,40 miles and eventually 1/4 tank. If you can drive to 5 miles DTE (there is an unmeasured 5L of fuel below zero DTE that typically means you can actually go 15-20 miles past empty. I recommend performing this test semi annually. This test will rule out the fuel pump/supply.

If you haven't changed the CPS/s or if pO had done so but used other then OEM that would be my prime suspect. I've only ever replaced the one on the intake side and we have the 3.0 but both of ours failed like clock work at 130,000 miles. lean bank codes that cleared themselves.

Does the car ever actually stall? Mine would stall on slow speed throttle off situations: 5/10 mph creep through parking lot or intersection (always a crowd pleaser especially after the idiotic "unintended acceleration" scandal that introduced us to the brake interlock and the for whatever reason x5 you can't start from the 1 position! Not the most pleasant introduction to x5 ignition curiosities: stall coasting 5mph in intersection; put in N , can't start, turn key off, can't, car in N, put car in P , car jerks to a stop because you didn't brake, turn key off, turn key to start, FINALLY start the car, put in drive from N. Oops can't: not in N. Realize that you had to shift to P to get key to 0 so you can finally start the car!

Seriously!?!? Can't restart a coasting stalled car!? WTF!? Seriously!? I've driven dozens of cars at least 15 makes, this was the only one I couldn't just turn the key from 1 to 2 after putting into neutral while coasting to start. Holy shit!

Oh : it's misfire :-D


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andrewwynn, thanx for the input but this is the infamos n62. i cant find a vaccume leak. now so bad even if i unplug valvetronics solenoids it goes into engine failsafe. runs so bad but very cold here. 6°F this morn. only 23° F this afternoon. not good. i cant seem to find the answer. it is on 26miles till empty. still runs but runs horrrible, i can shut off and then half throttle it. it will climb to 3-4k rpm and run. but eventually drops in rpm to a sugeimg pulsing idle and failsafe.

Have you had a shop scan and give you a report? It looks like time to bite that bullet.

People wonder how (as computer it guy) I can have an answer so quick to some often times very perplexing issues and the answer is that I've seen it before. It might take 20 seconds for a pro to know exactly what is the problem and that piece of information is quite valuable.

Multiple random codes is starting to sound like "common denominator" e g computer brain. I would definitely get somebody with experience and a "next level scanner" (can do abs and airbag) to scan and report. Don't clear any code for a while even if you have to putt putt putt to the dealer.


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If you have a scanner it runs fine once warmed up. I an unplug valvetronics, warm her up. Then plug in and hit the highway & meet u

Although most lean codes are the result of vacuum leaks, other conditions can set lean codes. A failing fuel pump that is not able to provide the required fuel pressure can cause a lean condition. You have a starting place with the lean codes.

If you have a scanner that can display live data, I would look at the short and long term fuel trims of both banks. Maybe a clogged fuel filter is the culprit. What type of maintenance schedule have been done on the X. Is it regularly maintain, or just fix once problems start to arise.

:iagree::thumbup:

although i have a laptop with gt1 i cant seem to get to anolog values with this car. I have run to down to low fuel, it has 29 miles left on DIC right now. it still runs. this thing is the most frustrating engine combo i have ever dealt with, Ferrari is easier. when puch the schrader valve on fuel rail seems right for pressure. you get used to 60psi or so.

50psi. If much higher that means the regulator isn't working and it's not sending the excess back to the left tank. That said, extremely rare for "lifetime" fuel filter to fail on an x5. We need to get some quality scan numbers hopeful while it's "moss" firing. If it clears up once warm it has to be a solvable problem. How long does it have to warm up before it behaves? 90 seconds (sec air pump)? Does that engine use one? Or temp dependent? Chugga chugga until closed loop?


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miserable untill closed loop. then ok. iwould not be against driving down to meet to see if we can solve this.

Open loop means it is following a predetermine set of values for the engine and not relying on the 02 sensors to adjust the mixture. If your fuel pressure was at 60 psi and not 50 psi it could be the engine is running too rich at open loop. You will need to actually determine what the fuel pressure is and not rely on the press the schrader valve to determine the fuel pressure in the rail. You need to connect a fuel pressure gauge at the fuel rail and get an actual reading. A lot of info can be determine if you are able to view Live Data. Unable to get live data you might as well load the parts canon and fire away.

as the fuel pump is not variable voltage...... if it runs fine when warm, shouldnt be fuel pump. &, it is not just a miss, it pops and farts and both rich and lean, intake pop &exhaust pop. and only had small missfire issues before i did coolant crossover. & i did not pull Valvetronics solenoids to do coolant crossover. i have done smoke test and carb cleaner spray test.IDK.

At closed loop the 02 sensor is sending commands to the DME as to what it should be doing such as varying the length of the injection time to compensate for either a rich or lean condition. Just because it runs fine at close loop doesn't mean the fuel pump or the fuel regulator is good. It just means that now the 02 sensors are adjusting the fuel mixture to run as programmed. If it is popping at the exhaust that means you have unburnt gas entering the exhaust or an exhaust leak. Keeping driving it like this and you will eventually clog the exhaust because of a too rich condition. Price the cost of new cats for an X lately?

Load the parts cannon. Nice.


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it is mostly popping thru intake, but some exhaust. anyway i finaly have a hard code. i think i may have broke #6 injector. keeps coming up as a fault, positive to ground. i inspected wires. and tapped on fuel rail to see anout seating injectors some more. IDK. but this is a hard code instead of intermittent.

IVM issue?

what is IVM
 

What is IVM

IVM is the integrated voltage module or integrated supply module. I don't think that is the problem since your symptoms are only present when engine is cold.

Since this problem started directly after the crossover pipe repair I would check my work. There are no coincidences when working on vehicles. You could have a temp sensor connection loose that is screwing up cold start computer input. Check to see if secondary air pump is running when engine is in open loop.

I think he's got a hard fail finally on injector six. I suspect it was just doing a really shitty job putting in too much or too little gas until it finally shit itself now shows up as short to ground. When my CPS failed there was never a direct code just hints but thanks to xoutpost and people that went before me the hints led me right to the problem.


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I think he's got a hard fail finally on injector six. I suspect it was just doing a really shitty job putting in too much or too little gas until it finally shit itself now shows up as short to ground. When my CPS failed there was never a direct code just hints but thanks to xoutpost and people that went before me the hints led me right to the problem.

It's always easier to fix when it hard fails.

thanx for the input. i will check a few things after the game is over. it did have codes of random multiple missfire before i did coolant crossover. wasnt running real,bad tho. i was just gonna do crossover first, then i figured, do plugs. i dont remember it running horrible on cold start before coolant crossover. but it did have codes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx4UYqKjQa0

why dont people just point to things like this instead of playn games and making you second guess everything

You asked for suggestions. There are all levels of experience and knowledge on a forum. You will always get several OPINIONS. It is very seldom that there is only one potential cause of a problem. If you had posted the video asking what the numbers mean you would probably still get more than one interpretation. The video looks and sounds like the solution but it is the internet. Key is to focus on making sure you have done all the troubleshooting suggestions and to do your own validation research and eliminate the easy to do troubleshooting stuff that will verify your own conclusion from all the suggestions. Even the best of the professionals using BMW software aren't always right. I exhaust all troubleshooting before purchasing anything to be as sure as I know how to be that I am not jumping to a conclusion.

Well said!!!

Opinions are like Assholes, everyone has one. When people replies on this forum they don't have the option of inspecting the car or doing some testing. We are relying on the owner/poster as to what is wrong is the problem with their X. They do not usually post data such as short term or long term fuel trim or the g/s flow rate of the MAF. Don't like some of the replies on this forum just ignore them. I wouldn't blame people for not leading you in the right direction to a solution to your problem. You have to ask yourself if you provided enough info for people to make an objective call as to the problem and solution.

yes but thia is the most frustrating POS i have ever run across. I have worked on Ferrari that were easier, amd Jags which are real POS. so appologies to the long time mebers of this forum(also can one of the admis change the "mossfir to missfire in title to this thread, i am typing blind cuz the txt nox will dissapear behind the keyboard on my asus table transformer it doesnt know if it is a pc or a tablet & i am too busy spending every dime on cars to buy. a new tablet). i am just feeling the frustration. and the lack of real responses about the secondary leavers or eccentric shafts leads me to believ that this is the culprate. but i will keep at it. i will most likely part it before i spread my asscheaks wide and take it to the dealer.