2001 X5 E53 Window Motor Bad - Stuck Down
 

As the title suggests I believe the front passenger side window motor went bad. I was driving and lowered the window about 3 or 4 inches and when I tried to close it a few minutes later it would not move up. It would lower further but would not go up even one little bit. Eventually I had the window all the way down and that's where it is stuck now. I'm thinking the motor may be bad because when I push the switch to operate the window down it makes a sound and the interior lights dim. When I push the switch to operate the window up it does not make a sound and the lights do not dim. Same thing occurs with both front switches. I have the door panel and vapor barrier removed and I've tried to help the window up while operating the switch and it does not move. I will need to get the window up a few inches to get to the screws to release the window glass so I can remove the regulator assembly to inspect or test the motor (or regulator if necessary). I don't want to cut the cables if I don't have to because I suspect the regulator itself may be good. (maybe not though). How can I get the window to go up some so I can get to the screw to release the glass?

Thanks.
Dan

Dan, it's most likely the regulator, mine did the same thing, but on the driver's side.

The motor uses only one set of windings it changes the polarity to go up versus down. If the lights dim on the switch up then it's the not the switch and it's probably the regulator. If the light does not dim and you hear no attempt at the motor moving on a upcoming and then it's probably the switch


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Ive got a bunch of bmw's and have replaced more regulators on my bmw's than I have spark plugs, brakes, and air filters on any other vehicle I have ever owned.

My money is on the regulator. I have never had a motor go bad on one. It has always been the regulator. I even stock regulators now so I can just pull on from my cache when needed.

All friends and family know not to touch my window switches on my bmw's. They even quote my moto back to me when the subject comes up.

"Its not IF the regulator is going to fail, its a matter of WHEN its going to fail."

Now one thing I did find interesting was I did find a way to stop them from failing all the time FINALLY.

First if you keep the rubber insulation lubricated with something like gummi fledge and such it greatly extends the life of the regulators.

But the solution strangely enough (at least so far) is to tint the windows. The window tint keeps the windows from sticking to the rubber and killing the regulator.

So far at least. The ones I tinted have gone years now with no more regulators.

That's a great advice. My driver window is really pokey and I need to replace the regulator soon. Have a good reference guide to share?


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I just went on youtube when ever I did the first one on each type of bmw.

After watching one you will see how easy it is.

Each one has its own quirks. E46's are great if the window is stuck since its easy to get to the mounting points and doesn't require removing the glass. E39's require the window to be a certain location but the regulator is easier to get out of the door once you get past that part but e39's require removing the glass to get to the top bolts on the back doors for instance.

I haven't had one go bad yet on my X5 and it has window tint so I'm hoping they last awhile.

Bummer, that just happened to me as well (while I was having my windows tinted funny enough) I had to have the regulator replaced. I hear it’s a common problem.

Ended up costing me $300 from a local Indy shop. BMW quoted $700 :yikes:

It was a quick repair, they were done in less than two hours.

Good luck!

I found a place I buy them from for $24 or maybe it was $30 something. I cant remember. That was for the e39 and the e46. Havent bought any for the e53 yet but I guess I should to stock up.

Thanks for the responses.

I did initially suspect a bad regulator but if it was a bad regulator wouldn't the lights dim and the motor grunt when I operate the switch in the up position? As if the motor is trying but the window mechanism is binding? If it were the switch wouldn't one of the two switches still work? What are the odds that both the driver side switch and passenger side switch both went bad? In any case I guess there is no way to get that sucker out when the window is stuck all the way down other than cutting the cable. Is that correct? Maybe I'll take the connector off the motor and see if I can put 12V directly to it.

The odds are low that both switches failed. The question should be do you regularly use both switches & know them to be working? Often the passenger (or similar) switch may fail but you the driver doesn’t notice it, until your (drivers door) switch fails. You can easily test for proper power & ground going in & out of the switch on the passenger door, or at the motor itself. Just remember the power & grounds reverse to run the motor in the opposite direction.

Silly question but is the passenger window lock out engaged? (So only driver switch set to work).

If the regulator is the problem I would expect you will hear the motor and with the switch depending how they are wired it's possible they can be in series where one bad contact will affect both sides (but check for the lock-out switch I bump mine on almost every day).

Did you have wearing regulator symptoms (slow binding window) before it stopped going up?


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Yes, there is ALWAYS another way.

Applying 12V directly to the motor will hopefully work, and will be a useful troubleshooting step as well. Applying 12V one way will send the window down (I know, already pegged); reversing polarity should try to send it up, while also bypassing all other items.

BTW - AndrewWynn's comment about polarity, etc., saying that if current flows one way, etc. is exactly how I think about this situation. You'll find out when you take it apart, but it seems almost impossible that the motor could be the cause of this, at a basic physics level.

2 switches failing at the same time is very unlikely, but could it be that one failed and was not noticed for a while until the second one finally failed?

Yes, some of this data doesn't make sense now, but I expect it will all make sense when you're done. I agree with your doubts about the regulator, but also (having repaired all 4 regulators on my x5 in the 3 years since I've had it) believe what the others are saying.

If the regulator has failed (most likely the regulator clip / "slider" piece of stamped steel + hard plastic that connects the cable to the "window clips" that connect to the glass), applying upward voltage should make things hum + bind, so you'll then need to help it move by wiggling things, pulling up on the glass, etc.

Good luck.

Great idea there. My money is still on the regulator.

But this suggests maybe some safety feature is malfunctioning - isn't there something in these cars that is supposed to stop the window from pinching an arm or head in the window when rolling it up? That would explain good behavior going down, but completely dead going up. If the sensor or processing for that feature has malfunctioned ...

Just an idea to keep in mind while figuring things out ...

It didn't sink in right away but andrewwynn made a good point about the motor and reverse polarity. If it works in one direction then it should work in the other direction too. Makes sense now.

KMM111, good point also about not knowing whether the passenger switch was in working order. I didn't know because I don't have passengers often. I guess I assumed it was working because it didn't get much use.

In any case I applied 12 volts directly to the motor and both the motor and regulator are in good working order. I do indeed need a new switch... maybe both. Is it possible that if the drivers master switch fails the passenger switch will also stop working? I think I'll take care of the driver switch first. Does that make the most sense?

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Dan

Good point about the child safety feature oldskewel. Yet another thing to consider.

I learned a long time ago, when it comes to vehicle electronics, everything is possible. It is possible the master switch could have failed in such a way as to disable both window controls. Do the other windows work at their switches? Don’t hold me to it but is it possible a back door window switch will plug into the passenger front window plug? If yes & it still doesn’t work you’ll know the answer.

2001 X5 E53 Window Motor Bad - Stuck Down
 

It is also possible that the up limit switch is failed open. (or the relay used to power up vs down). Id need to see a schematic to know for sure.

Do you hear the click of the relay when you press up? If yes, then it's likely the relay or limit switch that is the fault

Yes, I was wondering if it could be a relay too. At this point it sure seems like a bad relay would be the suspect. Nothing happens when either front switch is operated in the up position ... no click, sound or dimming of lights at all. All other switches and windows work properly. I even put all the other windows down and tried the thing where you put the key in the drivers door and hold it in the lock position. All windows go up except the front passenger. I dismantled both front switches and cleaned the switch membranes with contact cleaner and reassembled. No difference. There is a substantial amount of circuitry in the switches. I would bet the relay is integral to one of the front switches.

No click means the relay is broken or not getting power (switch broken). The switches may be wired in series so that if driver master switch is broken it can interfere with operation.

I would suspect the relay. Measure voltage at the control pin of the relay. I've not looked into but it may be a combined part for up/down so operate the switch down to find the click of the relay.

My prime suspect is now the primary side of the relay. It's getting voltage but not picking up.

If you operate the up switch and voltage goes to "12" on the relay control pin then I've am correct it's the relay.

If you don't get voltage on the relay control pin then it's switch or wiring.

You can measure voltage coming out of the switch as well to determine if the switch is working.

The limit switch seems to be down steam of the power relay (since can still hear relay click when window is at the limit but motor doesn't run).


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The relay may be internal to the switch. Each door has two relays one up one down.


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Thanks. I may explore the relays. I dismantled the passenger switch and I believe the relay is the large tan component in the lower left corner.

https://flic.kr/p/Csx1fa

https://flic.kr/p/Csx1fa

It looks like replacement relays are available. I think I'll try replacing them. I'll do the driver side first and see what happen. I'll report the results.

Here's a photo of the passenger side circuit board. The relay is the large tan component in the lower left corner.

https://flic.kr/p/Csx1fa

The relay is on the door where the window isn't working. If you show me a pic of the bottom and any model number on the relay I can tell you where to test to confirm the relay is the problem vs a switch or electronics.

edit: your photo had the part # on it: tyco+ V23078-L1002-A303

It's a special relay that reverses polarity to the output terminals, shorting both to ground when not operational.

The small pins on the ends are the control pins; if you can plug it back in and test it, you should have voltage on the small pins when the switch is activated (up/down). one side for up one for down. If you get a '12v' reading across the small pins on both sides, the switches are fine and the relay is shot.

If you don't get voltage on the control pins then there is a switch or wiring problem. If you get voltage and the relay does click then it says the problem is down-stream; limit switch or wiring, but i think you said no click in the down position.

I just noticed you are in waukegan: I drive past frequently. I have some high-end soldering gear including the proper machine to desolder PCB soldered in relays, i could work in a stop on my way to/from chicago to help replace that relay if you determine that's the problem.

a search on the exact part # showed them for sale on eBay, but can also order from digikey, probably about $5-10.

Thanks for the excellent information. I will test the relay as you suggest. I did see that they are available on eBay. I'll probably order a couple. I really appreciate the offer to help. That's very kind of you but I can do it. I have a solder sucker. It works but not great. I hate desoldering stuff.

I see you are from Racine. Coincidentally I have a trip planned to the far South end of Racine (near Durand and Sheridan Rd) this Monday or Tuesday.

I hated desolder jobs enough to buy a metcal desolder gun. It has a hollow heating tip that is in a "gun" that uses shop air to make a vacuum and suck the solder. It's amazing in action. If the sucker let's you down let me know. I'm in Chicago from mon to thu.


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I explored the right front switch and found out the circuit board has some corrosion on the bottom corner where the relay is located. About 3 months ago I accidentally left the window open while it was raining. The switch enclosure is in such a position that any water that leaks into it will collect in the bottom corner and eventually cause problems. I think the relay is sealed and only a small corner of the circuit board is damaged. It looks like I may be able to repair a couple of bad traces on the circuit board. This has to be fairly common due to the position of the circuit board and the way the enclosure is designed.

Here's a photo of the damaged corner.

https://flic.kr/p/CuZp92

Bingo. Those are exactly the control pins for the motor relay! Wire some jumper wires parallel to the traces on the board I think you'll fix it!


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Success!

There was one bad trace on the board. It was very narrow so it was bound to be the first to go from that corrosion. I love that kind of repair. It took some time but no cost for parts (well except for maybe 10 cents for the wire and solder). Thanks to everyone for helping me figure it out and thanks again andrewwynn for the offer to help fix it! I hope this helps someone in the future. I can't be the only one dumb enough to leave the window wide open when it's raining.

Sa weet! I'm glad you started the thread since it encouraged me to look into both mine and wife's slow windows which I thought were worn regulators but just needed some lubrication on the window rails. 60% faster closing and matches the other windows now.


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Yeah, I was thinking I should have lubed mine but I didn't think of it until it was all put back together. Anything that makes life easier for the regulator can't be bad. What did you use for lube?

I used the HDX (home Depot store brand) window/door lubrication. I just tested my windows today to make sure the fix stayed. Absolutely did. No difference from the day I fixed and that means 25% faster down and 60% faster up (coincidentally now the same speed as passenger window).

Fixed using the spray tube down along the window. See my thread about it I included videos before and after.

The biggest improvement is not the speed it's the reduced force on all the parts. My motor used to moan and groan and now it's smooth sailing. Far less likely to self destruct the regulators


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I have the same prob cut the wires soldered in a new relay still nothing when the switch is tryed up did you take any photos of your trace bypass wires thanks

+1: did you take a picture of the fix? There is a new thread where somebody had the same problem


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