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-   -   Overnight Cold Start Rough Idle N62 4.8iS (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/109342-overnight-cold-start-rough-idle-n62-4-8is.html)

mr_robot 11-27-2018 07:21 PM

Overnight Cold Start Rough Idle N62 4.8iS
 
Ok, been trying to diagnose a cold start rough idle I've been experiencing ever since it has been getting cold here in New York.

It has new coil plugs and spark plugs from FCP's ignition service kit about a year ago.

Just got the VSS and all corresponding gaskets including the vanos seals done and at the same time rechecked the spark plugs for any fouling. Everything was good.

DME adaptation was reset after job was done as well. Car drives perfectly normal and strong otherwise.

I'm aware of the intermediate lever SIB and probably it is the issue but just want to understand something.

I get rough idle and sometime the CEL flashing with misfire codes P0300 and random cylinders, sometimes its cyl 2, 4, 6,7 or just 6 or 8, it's never consistent.

With that said it only happens after the car has been sitting over night (over 12 hours) next day going to work.

If it's my I.L. shouldn't it happen all the time for cold starts? For example, after I drive to work and come back (usually 6-7 hours later) it does not show these symptoms. It only seems to happen over a certain amount of time car has been sitting.

So if that is the case it could be a software/setting issue? Like what is different about 6 hours and 12 hours, what changes does the DME make to the valvetronics to go into a certain lift value?

I feel like I can bandaid fix this until I eventually get to do my I.L. if it's something I can change in the settings.

Thanks, any input is appreciated!

80stech 11-27-2018 09:07 PM

Check for vacuum leaks at the brake booster. Also between that and if the aux air pump isn't working can cause exactly what you are describing.

mr_robot 11-27-2018 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80stech (Post 1147404)
Check for vacuum leaks at the brake booster.

Also performed a smoke test (with the snap-on machine) prior to doing valve stem seal for any potential leaks and was good. The seal that mounts to the timing chain cover was replaced when doing the VSS job as well.

80stech 11-27-2018 09:19 PM

smoke test won't show booster leak. Both my X5 and X3 had a similar problem. They both lost booster vacuum overnight and replacing the vacuum valve and grommet was the fix. Both boosters themselves where ok. The X5 was the worst (miss and codes) and also needed the aux air valve and pump relay which cured some of it, but took the vacuum valve and grommet to totally fix it. I would have a hard time believing some of it if I didn't go through it myself. Mind you I am talking about M54's and I ruled out the more common stuff first.

mr_robot 11-27-2018 09:47 PM

That pump is just for the brakes so wouldn't I have some brake pedal feel issues?


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80stech 11-27-2018 09:49 PM

No, the aux air pump that pumps air into the exhaust manifold.

mr_robot 11-27-2018 09:56 PM

As far as I know the N62 in the 4.8is doesn't have a secondary air pump. Just the vacuum pump on the right side of the timing cover.

Or am I not following you?


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Emory39 11-27-2018 10:05 PM

My X5 had a bad vacuum valve but never did what you are describing. That said if I am waiting for a traffic light the RPM's jump a little bit. Like 50-100 rpm it does not cause the rpm gauge to fluctuate. I guess wrote this because I want to know what is the I.L. and could it be causing this.

80stech 11-27-2018 10:23 PM

Yes, I guess lots of differences with the V8. I'll leave this to the V8 guys.

mr_robot 11-27-2018 10:25 PM

Overnight Cold Start Rough Idle N62 4.8iS
 
Intermediate levers (I.L.) are the rocker arms that changes the amount of lift on the intake valves via the eccentric shaft. Basically a 3rd camshaft to control the intake valves aka valvrtronics. BMW released a SIB for N62 motors for out of tolerance rockers (IL) to be the cause of random misfires on cold starts.

Should not affect once warmed up. So the symptoms also aren't there on warmer climates so maybe that is why there was no recall just on "customer complaint basis"


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Emory39 11-27-2018 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_robot (Post 1147424)
Intermediate levers (I.L.) are the rocker arms that changes the amount of lift on the intake valves via the eccentric shaft. Basically a 3rd camshaft to control the intake valves aka valvrtronics. BMW released a SIB for N62 motors for out of tolerance rockers (IL) to be the cause of random misfires on cold starts.

Should not affect once warmed up. So the symptoms also aren't there on warmer climates so maybe that is why there was no recall just on "customer complaint basis"


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Copy. Thanks for that

mr_robot 11-27-2018 11:25 PM

Just thinking out loud my car has the resonator deleted by previous owner with just two separate straight pipes. Would this cause a misfire due to loss of exhaust scavenging?


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amancuso 11-28-2018 11:03 PM

Possible bad IVM (Integrated Supply Module)?


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mr_robot 11-28-2018 11:12 PM

Didn't know suck thing existed but just googled it and worth a try. Although it's not sluggish like this article:

http://www.bmwlogicseven.com/?p=3812


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amancuso 11-28-2018 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_robot (Post 1147532)
Didn't know suck thing existed but just googled it and worth a try. Although it's not sluggish like this article:

IVM or why my engine runs sluggish??? N62 applies to ALL cars with it. E53/e65/e60/e63/e64/e66 | BMW LOGIC7


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Mine isn't sluggish either, but I generally don't drive off until after it's done it's idle-dance. Then it's smooth as butter.

mr_robot 11-28-2018 11:17 PM

So you replaced the IVM? It's cheap enough and easy enough to swap it seems.




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amancuso 11-28-2018 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_robot (Post 1147534)
So you replaced the IVM? It's cheap enough and easy enough to swap it seems.




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I haven't yet. My indy said to replace it once it starts throwing codes and the dance lasts longer or doesn't stop. I may just change it earlier anyway. Said he sees plenty of N62 cars with bad IVMs.

mr_robot 11-29-2018 12:00 AM

Ok ordered one, finger crossed.


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SlickGT1 11-29-2018 01:18 AM

Susbcribed. Curious about this. Where is the IVM in our cars anyway?

crystalworks 11-29-2018 03:05 AM

Yep, keep us updated. Had planned on replacing my IVM as well preventatively as it is not too expensive.

Slick... if I recall it's in the fuse box under the hood on the passenger side.

mr_robot 11-29-2018 09:03 AM

Correct, supposed to be 10-15 min job which I'm sure with my OCD it end up being the whole day.


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Clockwork 11-29-2018 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_robot (Post 1147534)
So you replaced the IVM? It's cheap enough and easy enough to swap it seems.
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part number for this IVM/ISM device 12527510638 for years 2003-2006, according to realoem...

mr_robot 11-29-2018 07:57 PM

12527510638


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Clockwork 11-29-2018 08:06 PM

In the winter, when its cold out, I've often got the shakes upon startup and then the error on dashboard... so I turn off vehicle and restart adn all is perfect... I spoke with a BMW mech about this and he said just learn to live with it as its not bad actually for the car as it warms up adn problem goes away as opposed to paying for the Lifters replacement.... he never mentioned it could be an IVM/ISM part that could be easily/cheaply replaced...interesting.

stiubhartach 11-29-2018 09:28 PM

Often, a rough idle on a long sitting cold starts is due to slowly leaking injectors. The residual pressure in the fuel rail causes fuel to slowly drip into one of the cylinders. This causes a too rich condition for ignition in the effected cylinders until the extra is blown out the exhaust. Then it smooths out.

You’ll smell unburned gas frm the exhaust on startup.

Diagnosis is to wait for 12 hours, or so, for the condition to set, then pull plugs and see if they are wet. Or stick a wooden pencil in the plug hole and see if it gets fuel on it.

mr_robot 11-29-2018 09:49 PM

If it's leaking injectors wouldn't it start rough from the start? Also wouldn't it be a consistent cylinder misfiring? But it's random, like today it was only cyl 6. I doubt all my injectors are leaking or I would definitely smell heavy gas which I don't. And I don't think it's technically "misfiring" more like it's slightly retarded because I I rev up slowly to like 1k rpm it doesn't misfire.

And sometimes it does start rough right away sometimes it does the normal high idle (perfectly) and as the rpm settles down (lift being adjusted by valvrtronics) the roughness begins. Again intermittently and random.

Also for me shutting the car off when idling rough and restating doesn't fix it at all and so far this is always been the case. Restarting never does anything. Just have to let it go away on it's own. Have even restarted it 3 times and no chance.


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stiubhartach 11-29-2018 10:19 PM

True. It should idle rough from the start, unless it’s even dripping across all cylinders, which is unlikely.

Anytime I think about problems that show up after extended cold sitting, I think of fuel delivery. Especially since it seems to happen only after the cold of night time.

Fuel starvation for some reason? That would cause lean misfire and the computer to retard ignition to reduce detonation.

Failing return valve in the fuel tank that allows line pressure to drop after the pump shuts off, possibly causing short term initial starvation? Small Frozen glob of water in the fuel tank pickup? Cold causing low voltage to the fuel pump?

Please keep us posted on what you find.

mr_robot 11-29-2018 10:37 PM

Yeah I looked into fuel supply issues thinking it's losing pressure the longer it sits. First the filter was replaced. Also ran fuel injector cleaners as well just as a maintenance.

To see if it was a pressure issue I primed the pump 3 times before cranking by going starting the key but not cranking on and off so the rails build up pressure but that didn't do anything either.

Also monitored my voltage while this was happening to see if my alternator is failing therefore not supplying enough voltage but it all checked out, voltage goes straight up to 13.8v and does not fluctuate with the rough idle.

So since I finally found about the IVM my really hoping this is it. Because every other potential issues should be happening all the time cold or not warmed up engine or not and it's not the case.


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LVP 11-29-2018 11:14 PM

Welcome to the club!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_robot (Post 1147395)
Ok, been trying to diagnose a cold start rough idle I've been experiencing ever since it has been getting cold here in New York.

It has new coil plugs and spark plugs from FCP's ignition service kit about a year ago.

Just got the VSS and all corresponding gaskets including the vanos seals done and at the same time rechecked the spark plugs for any fouling. Everything was good.

DME adaptation was reset after job was done as well. Car drives perfectly normal and strong otherwise.

I'm aware of the intermediate lever SIB and probably it is the issue but just want to understand something.

I get rough idle and sometime the CEL flashing with misfire codes P0300 and random cylinders, sometimes its cyl 2, 4, 6,7 or just 6 or 8, it's never consistent.

With that said it only happens after the car has been sitting over night (over 12 hours) next day going to work.

If it's my I.L. shouldn't it happen all the time for cold starts? For example, after I drive to work and come back (usually 6-7 hours later) it does not show these symptoms. It only seems to happen over a certain amount of time car has been sitting.

So if that is the case it could be a software/setting issue? Like what is different about 6 hours and 12 hours, what changes does the DME make to the valvetronics to go into a certain lift value?

I feel like I can bandaid fix this until I eventually get to do my I.L. if it's something I can change in the settings.

Thanks, any input is appreciated!

Welcome to the club! I've been chasing this since I had mine. Look for a few posts from me on the subject. Initially I discovered the previous owner got fed up and put electrical tape over the bulb (inside so I couldn't see). That was awesome. I've replaced a lot of stuff over the years and nothing has affected it. I also did the IVM because I found a post and diagram on another forum linking the IVM to the levers - no luck. I've also played with all the lift values - no luck. That being said, I did a lot of surgery in recent weeks, it's getting cold and I haven't seen the flashing CEL nor the cold start rough idle. But I've been here before - I'm sure it'll happen :). If mine has the rough start, a restart will cure it.

mr_robot 11-29-2018 11:18 PM

Noooo! You just killed my hopes lol

But you're saying the replacement IVM didn't cure it but now it's not having cold start issues? So it did cure/help?

Did you take apart the old IVM to see if had any corrosions or faulty soldering?


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LVP 11-30-2018 07:34 AM

IVM went in before last winter and still had the issues after that. I did take it apart and it had some hints of water/moisture, but nothing that I would say culprit. Nothing was burnt/corroded.

So far, we're just getting hints of sub-freezing temps. I find it does show itself after sitting overnight and the engine gets really cold. If a short stint between starts, it seems to not stumble. I was going to toss on a block heater to see if that helped, but I shelved that project.

mr_robot 12-01-2018 03:46 PM

IVM came, saw no noticeable improvement unfortunately.

The IVM that I pulled out had exposed fuses compared to the new one has covered so I'll just keep new one installed.

Will report back tomorrow morning again.

Some pictures:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...475eb775ba.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...652a84a36a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4db7bf3258.jpg

Also saw no corrosions inside my old IVM.


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crystalworks 12-02-2018 02:18 PM

WAG here... could dirty/faulty vanos solenoids be at play?

mr_robot 12-02-2018 03:18 PM

Cleaned up the vanos when I was doing the vss as I did the upper timing chain cover gaskets. Vanos were pretty clean to begin with.

This morning I started up the car and did not get any rough idles but it was pretty warm (47* and raining)

So still have some hope.


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mr_robot 12-04-2018 09:33 AM

Another update!

Past couple days been on the warmer side upper 40s so didn't experience any those days.

This morning, 37 degrees and did not experience any rough idle or blinking CEL!!!

It just did the high idle for about 30 sec and the rpm settled down and I just drove off.

I start my car with my iPhone stopwatch ready lol.

Will keep monitoring.




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amancuso 12-04-2018 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_robot (Post 1148103)
Another update!

Past couple days been on the warmer side upper 40s so didn't experience any those days.

This morning, 37 degrees and did not experience any rough idle or blinking CEL!!!

It just did the high idle for about 30 sec and the rpm settled down and I just drove off.

I start my car with my iPhone stopwatch ready lol.

Will keep monitoring.




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Great! I hope it keeps up.


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mr_robot 12-06-2018 05:39 PM

Sad to report my issue came back now that it's getting even colder.

Experienced the worst ever this morning. CEL flickering then really rough idle to the point the whole car started shaking and CEL stayed on.

Restarting did nothing and this time I couldn't even drive. It kept misfiring and wouldn't accelerate. Stuff like this makes me believe it's beyond the levers.

Free revving kept misfiring as well. Pulled out my scan tool and had the normal p0300 with others for cyl 2, 4, 6 & 8. Wasn't until I cleared the CEL that it idled normal again. Very strange.

It's just the even numbered cylinders on both banks. Cyl 2,4,6,8 seem to be consistently the ones misfiring so I'm going to try putting the old oe coil plugs back to see if it changes.




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LVP 12-06-2018 06:19 PM

That sucks. I didn't want to burst your bubble, but I've been in the state of hope before with mine too. Like right now. I haven't had the CEL yet, but it also hasn't been that cold. I had a ton of bottom end, gaskets, seals, o-rings, etc. done on mine. But mine is also faster after I wash it too, so I think I'm just buying the days until she throws the CEL again. :)

crystalworks 12-06-2018 06:47 PM

Sorry to hear mr_robot. Maybe a CPS (cam or crank) is going bad and starts reading properly after warming up a bit? Just throwing s*it at the wall here.

mr_robot 12-06-2018 07:39 PM

I initially thought that as a possibility but it would have to happen on all cold starts 6hr or 12hr sitting cold. My issue is only after over 12hrs of sitting cold.


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crystalworks 12-06-2018 07:42 PM

Gotcha. I'm kind of stumped then. Misfire codes by themselves don't really give you a ton to go on.

BTW I posted fitment pictures of that head unit in a thread I just started.

mr_robot 12-10-2018 07:34 PM

Just another update, I started the car this morning and perfect. No rough idle or flashing cel.

This was after sitting over 24hrs as I didn't drive it at all on Sunday and mornings are colder than ever now. Really stumped on this.

The only change is that I put a solar battery tender via the rear cargo 12v outlet since Saturday morning.

I put a solar charger because of "possible" weak battery issue. But have no other symptoms of a bad battery.

Will report back if this is due to a weak battery.

So is it possible that a failing battery could cause this? Doesn't the alternator take over as soon as you start the car?


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crystalworks 12-10-2018 07:54 PM

^Could be coincidence. Usually once the car is started, provided the alternator is providing good voltage, and the battery isn't TOTALLY shot... it should idle just fine.

I was going to ask if your o2 sensors had ever been changed.

mr_robot 12-10-2018 08:01 PM

As far I know it has not been changed. But from my experience o2 sensors either work or they don't. And would definitely throw a fault code either via obd or bmw scanner as soon as possible.


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crystalworks 12-10-2018 08:29 PM

^Normally I would say the same. I just replaced mine @ 118,000 miles with no CEL. First startup was fast and smooth. More so than "normal." I've also read here reports of others getting better gas mileage after replacing the front o2 sensors. I had them here and was under the vehicle so figured I would do them. Was surprised at how fast and smooth the first start was.

That's just one start so far though... and is just anecdotal. Nothing concrete yet that the sensors will provide any better service than the ones I removed. :dunno:

mr_robot 12-10-2018 08:47 PM

Overnight Cold Start Rough Idle N62 4.8iS
 
Yes I'm sure a new clean o2 will perform better than a used one. I was thinking of changing mine too ever since doing the vss job. I don't know how long it's been going on because the previous owner swore it never smoked. But judging by how little it smoked I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he probably didn't know.

So I have been doing a lot of the "Italian Tune-Up" lately or any chance I ever get since the VSS was performed LOL


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crystalworks 12-11-2018 12:04 AM

Gotta blow the carbon off those valves right!

X5only 12-11-2018 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1148754)
^Normally I would say the same. I just replaced mine @ 118,000 miles with no CEL. First startup was fast and smooth. More so than "normal." I've also read here reports of others getting better gas mileage after replacing the front o2 sensors. I had them here and was under the vehicle so figured I would do them. Was surprised at how fast and smooth the first start was.

That's just one start so far though... and is just anecdotal. Nothing concrete yet that the sensors will provide any better service than the ones I removed. :dunno:

What O2 sensors did you install - OEM? Mine are original and at 120k miles, I think I better change them now.

crystalworks 12-11-2018 07:44 AM

I used Bosch sensors from fcp so that if I ever have to do them again... They're "free.".

jsoto 12-11-2018 10:51 AM

mr_r

I can see how if one was leaving the car at the airport and throwing the solar charger on it just because. Personally, I can't see how much juice it could be putting back into the lead acid- in the mah range. If it's a short tripper daily driver, even in this current chassis or ones with ED@80% SOC, I'd err on just a 120V charger as any lead acid is most happiest when @ full SOC

btw, I might have missed it. did you get around to charging and then doing a load test post charge.

crystalworks 12-11-2018 11:36 AM

The o2 sensors shouldn't cause cold start misfires now that I am thinking about it. Vehicle should be in open loop and not using their data. Don't know why I didn't think of that before. :dunno:

Have you (could you) do any data logging of a cold start where the rough start was present?

mr_robot 12-11-2018 12:41 PM

I can see live data with INPA but can you record with it as well?

mr_robot 12-11-2018 01:34 PM

So frustrated, hate these inconsistent, intermittent problems so hard to properly diagnose.

So this morning, it did it again, started up rough from the start. CEL flashing until it normalized then drove off.

But today, 2 min into driving coming to a stop light, it started flashing for like a sec and went away again. Today was pretty cold, car was covered in frost all over.

I seriously don't think it's my levers now. Because according to the SIB, I should experience rough idle AFTER 60 sec of cold start when it's switching from 6mm to .3/.8mm lift. Mine just starts rough from the start (again sometimes, sometime it does idle normal and goes into rough after 60 sec or so or sometimes doesn't do it at all!)

Does anyone know if when DME adaptation is reset so does the Valvetronic adaptation?

Been reading about E46, E39, E60, E70 guys talking about VVT adaptation reset? Does it apply to E53 N62 or is it all controlled by the DME?

I do see a part number for Valvetronic Module that is separate from the DME.

X5only 12-11-2018 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_robot (Post 1147418)
As far as I know the N62 in the 4.8is doesn't have a secondary air pump. Just the vacuum pump on the right side of the timing cover.

Or am I not following you?


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Correct, the X5 N62 doesn't have those emission air pumps. They're on 5 and 7 series N62 engines, the air pipes and pumps located under the intake manifold.

I would have thought the issue you're facing is the known intermediate levers problem that requires replacement with updated version? I'm just glad I verified mine are the updated version while doing the valve stem seals.

The other thing to note...was this issue there BEFORE the valve stem seals were replaced? I ask because during valve stem seals replacement, if the rocker arms are mixed up while installing them back (they have different tolerances for each valve stem), or if the spring keepers are installed up-side down, you could have intermittent misfires - exactly what you're describing. I did the valve stem seals myself and I rechecked and rechecked and rechecked yet again that I didn't make those mistakes. Just a thought....

mr_robot 12-11-2018 04:51 PM

This was present before the VSS was done. I did the VSS sooner than anticipated in hopes that any leaks would be addressed, solving this separate issue but it has not gotten worse or better after the VSS, but doesn't smoke anymore though =)

dadysev 01-21-2019 11:11 AM

Coldest day today in Toronto and just had this same issue. went to start, it was rough, ran then shut off.
After i got it started and revved it up a bit the idle was hunting from about 500 to 900 for a bit also.
I didn't check for any black smoke on first start for extra fuel from leaky injectors but i may start to check fuel pressure and leak test the injectors this week. i will let you know what i find.
Also only noticed this on the really cold days. No issues last week.
Also no faults or CEL flashes.

Emory39 01-21-2019 12:50 PM

It happened to me the other day for the first time since I have the X.
CEL flashing and all. I shut it off a restart and held it, at 900RPM for 15 seconds it idle just fine. Codes where the random misfire and what not. I am going to rule out what I have replaced; spark plug,s fuel pump, fuel filter, and CCV. The VVT should not be my problem as my ECM has a tune so lift specification are different ( I will read live data next weekend when I park the X outside again) the only thing That I know is OE, is the Ignition coils.

mr_robot 01-21-2019 01:25 PM

Mine is so random. Like this morning, 9*F and started up without a glitch no flashing CEL.


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dadysev 01-21-2019 02:31 PM

Just fired up the heater in my garage and started diagnosing. Fuel pump recall was done last week, so new fuel pump. Solid 50psi while running.
Did the leak test and it holds about 42 psi over an hour, but at this point the engine was a lot warmer than last night!
I'm guessing my battery was a little weaker than normal, and/or the injectors could have leaked a little over night with these super cold temps, and i also didn't start the truck yesterday at all with close to the same temps as today.
I give up!!!

Also i don't think we have the IVN module in the E70's as i'm trying to diagnose a starting issue with another E70 but a 3.0 where the starter does one click for half a second.
I found the starter relay in the CAS module under the steering wheel with a burnt surface mount diode and a trace by the white starting relay on the board. if I jump the starter wire to the main power supply wire it starts.
This is another issue which i know is caused by bad ground from the body to the engine block.

bcredliner 01-21-2019 03:51 PM

Since the issue is associated with cold mornings, first startup and goes away after a minute or less it could be an open loop problem. When the engine is cold and first starts up it is using a pre programmed air/fuel mixture. It does gather a little info from MAF and water temp but primarily it is using the pre programmed formula. Since your problem goes away and engine operates normally it is not likely the thermostat. I would eliminate the MAF as the potential problem. It is not likely the programming has changed but could have.

Sometimes a vacuum leak seals itself when the engine starts to warm up. I note you have done a smoke test. Was test done on a cold morning prior to starting the engine?

mr_robot 01-21-2019 05:52 PM

I wish I knew how to update my dme myself as I swear it’s a software issue more than my Intermediate levers due to it’s inconsistency. Every time I try to read a how to or video it just glosses over me lol

Sometimes my cel flashes after 2 min of driving when the cold start has already switched from max to min lift.


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mr_robot 01-22-2019 07:50 PM

2 days in a row no cold start misfire and these have been the coldest days ever.

The only change done recently was I switched from Castrol 0w-40 to Liqui Moly 5w-40.

amancuso 01-22-2019 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_robot (Post 1152865)
2 days in a row no cold start misfire and these have been the coldest days ever.

The only change done recently was I switched from Castrol 0w-40 to Liqui Moly 5w-40.

Same here. But I did get a false oil pressure warning on the dash.

mr_robot 01-22-2019 08:08 PM

Oh sorry forgot to mention I did change my oil pressure switch when doing the oil change as well as mine was leaking.

jsoto 01-22-2019 08:19 PM

For ur wiki. I was chasing a oil pressure & low oil on cluster and when all said and done - it wasn't the usual stuff. Aux fan was no good and somehow was trigger this on the cluster.

LVR 01-23-2019 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_robot (Post 1152865)
2 days in a row no cold start misfire and these have been the coldest days ever.

The only change done recently was I switched from Castrol 0w-40 to Liqui Moly 5w-40.

Not sure if this is of help, but in another thread regarding poss levers issue, with the symptoms being rough idle and hard start, when I asked for advice my ex BMW indi stated that the vanos solenoids with their small holes are quite sensitive to getting clogged up or poor oil quality and are his first point to check.

As they regulate timing it's possible that this is the problem?

It's apparently a DIY to pull em out (4) and give them a clean.

mr_robot 02-23-2019 05:20 PM

I will give vanos solenoids a try next.

Can I just unplug them and run the car for couple days to test? If they’re the culprit, unplugged should not cause a misfire correct?

I did new spark plugs with Iridium IX and idle and drivability was much improved but cold start random misfire with cyl 2, 4, 6, 8 was still there.

Again, not every cold start and intermittent days.

So today I tried swapping the coil plugs around to see if the misfire cylinders followed but it stayed the same at cyl 2, 4, 6, 8.

But again not always all four sometimes just 2, 4, 6 or 4&6 or just one, never consistent and really random.

AussieXer 02-24-2019 03:45 AM

I have been experimenting with the 4 Vanos solenoids. I have found that if I disconnect some of them the misfire and error codes (29CC, 29CD) go away (to be replaced by different codes telling me that the Vanos solenoids are disconnected, but no CEL)the car runs a lot better but there is slight hesitation on acceleration from lows revs (about 1500 revs).

LouInSD 11-04-2019 11:54 PM

Hey y'all, having the same issue. It got really bad about a week ago and I went and put the best fuel I could find in it and it ran much better. I'm hearing a rattling noise on the drivers side bank that accompanies the rough idle. I did put it on INPA and noticed that the cam position on the intake is pegged all the way to one side. I'm thinking that might explain the rattling that disappears when the idle clears up. I think I've got a dirty vanos solenoid. When I first bought this X5 it was having issues with misfires and it ran really bad. I popped the vanos solenoids out, cleaned them with some solvent, applied voltage to make sure they operated properly, installed fresh seals and it fired right up and ran like a factory fresh motor... For over a year now, then this issue started up recently. I'm going to pull the solenoids and clean them and see if that does the trick.

Let me know if any of you have any new updates to your situations.

Thanks

AussieXer 11-05-2019 01:12 AM

The symptoms that led me to experiment with the Vanos solenoids are documented in detail elsewhere but to summarise they were essentially a faltering when accelerating from low revs (eg about 1500), the CEL light coming which occasionally led to limp home mode. Rough idling was not really an issue at Australian temperatures (mostly between 10 and 20 degrees C). Accidentally I discovered that if I disconnected the inlet solenoid on the right hand side the car ran a lot better and did not falter. My local mechanic took the valve covers off the car and found that there was significant pitting on the eccentric shaft on right. He suggested that the reason that the car ran better with solenoid disconnected was that it essentially disabled the valvetronic system.
Currently the car starts well idles initially at about 1000 rpm then slows as you would expect and then for about 30 seconds runs roughly and then suddenly picks up and runs really smoothly from then on. I have been running the car like this for about 12 months and have even used it to pull a caravan for about 4000 kms on holiday. I have read other reports of owners disconnecting Vanos solenoids to correct running faults. Still thinking about replacing eccentric shafts but they are pretty pricey and I am not sure what I will gain.

AussieXer 11-05-2019 01:21 AM

Initially I cleaned the solenoids, checked that they were functioning, then replaced the seals and finally replaced the solenoids. I am now fairly sure it is the eccentric shaft causing my problems and I have nearly convinced myself to shell out the $5000 AUD or there abouts and replace them and the intermediate levers (and any other parts that should be replaced in the process).

LouInSD 11-05-2019 01:26 AM

Cool, yeah I wonder if the pitting is caused by the solenoid making the cam position get stuck in one extreme position. I have always had a little bit of surging in first gear when just giving it a little gas, like driving through a parking lot for example, but nothing like this. As soon as that CEL starts blinking I stop driving and restart it. Gonna pull the solenoids and see if cleaning helps before I disconnect the solenoids.

It sounds like yours is going into a default mode where it uses the butterfly instead of the eccentric cam. In that case it will idle at 700 instead of 600. But you really won't notice much difference in driveability.

I'll try to report back after I get those solenoids cleaned up. :)

LouInSD 11-05-2019 01:43 AM

Yeah that's a hefty price tag. I'd try replacing them myself before shelling out that kind of money. I've done nearly everything else on these cars, can't be that hard. This is my third X5 so I definitely know all their trouble spots by now. This one is new to me because I had the M62 in my previous E53`s.

Maybe I'll stick a camera in that valve cover and see if I can see any pitting. I'm wondering if this might be an electronic gremlin. I don't really trust BMW mechanics, there are a lot of half ass RnR guys who don't really know what they're doing. I've learned that over the years.

As some guy once said, "trust, but verify" :)

LouInSD 11-05-2019 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_robot (Post 1152754)
I wish I knew how to update my dme myself as I swear it’s a software issue more than my Intermediate levers due to it’s inconsistency. Every time I try to read a how to or video it just glosses over me lol

Sometimes my cel flashes after 2 min of driving when the cold start has already switched from max to min lift.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Check out a guy on YouTube called bmw doctor. He's got a lot of videos on programming. He talks a lot about the rough idle issue on the N52. He used to work at a dealer so he knows all the secrets. The N 52 has basically the same valvetronic system. He says the only way to fix it is to get the new updated vanos solenoids and then update the firmware. Make sure to use the plugs with four electrodes and that will fix it permanently. I have a feeling the fix is the same here. He says that the original vanos solenoids are not designed to work with the new updated software and they will fail. Also if you're not using the right plugs it will cause your coil packs to fail.

Just search his channel for rough idle, he's got a few videos on the topic.


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