On the side of the road with code P1343
 

X5 died with gauge on half tank.


P1343 on the code reader.


Added 4 gallons, car won't fire.


Waiting on tow truck


Yay...//s

Hopefully it’s not too cold where you are

Feels like electric pump died. Listen for the buzz under the right rear seat for two-three seconds when you turn the key to on position.

Symptoms are typical of pump failure. If it is the pump... A few quick raps with a wrench or something sometimes gets it working temporarily in order to get home. Got an e30 and an e46 home that way. Not sure if the same truck could be utilized on the e53.

Good chance you can get a non starter pump to kick on with a smack but not so much if it cut out when running. The rap just bumps it past a flat spot on the commutator.

Yeah I was thinking about that after posting. My 2 experiences with that were trying to restart after shutting down. Not the pump giving out mid drive.

You can kick start a starter with the same trick. Any DC brushed motor really


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Roger that!


$160.00 tow bill to get home; good deal considering where we live.



Added a total of 15 gallons and R/S still reads 6.0L.
L/S still reads 39.0L.


Won't turn over; we think with all the forum input and by the numbers in the test #6, the fuel pump is BBR/shot/kaput/quebrodo/dead.


Trying to stay positive, all the help in this community really helps.


Thx

I am about to do a 1000 miles trip in the winter with my X5 at 170k....I am thinking it may be a good idea to carry a spare one just in case...

Use only Pierburg!

Go to ebay and search E53 Pierburg Fuel Pump, there should be some for sales for $150 or so.

The fuel pump in my '01 3.0i died suddenly (right in front of my house, luckily) at 173k miles. After cutting it open afterwards, I saw that the brushes had just worn down. So it did not break, it just wore out. Predictable.

Knowing what I know now, I agree and would definitly carry a spare, and yes Pierburg is what I used and would recommend. Pierburg, made in USA, was original, and what came out of mine.

BTW, TI Automotive bought Pierburg a decade or so ago, so don't be worried if the pump says that. I believe my box said Pierburg, sealed with a hologram and everything, fully legit. And the pump inside the box was a perfect match with the one I removed except that it said TI Automotive, which worried me for a couple of minutes until the google explained things. I re-used the plastic housing, gauge, etc. with no problems at all and would do it again.

It's something talked about often. The pump only is very small you can get a spare from pick N pull for $40 put next to spare in the trunk.

Pre emptive replace the hose clamps with finger tight models like I have or at least screw type so you can get them off in the field.

Divide your odometer by your average speed example for me 167000/40 =4175 I know that the average life is about 4000 hours and wouldn't you know it the pump died last year. Actually you can get about 5000 hours with ethanol 10% gas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I thought I was reading the comments when I saw the wording carry a spare. Eeeks. And replace it on the side of the road if it fails ;) Why not just R/R and considered it Preventative Maintc. as opposed to doing it when cars are flying by you at 65MPH.

Yeah, at 170K miles how much more service does a

Fuel Pump
Ignition coil
Water Pump
Coolant hose
Trans fluid
alternator
starter
etc.

owe the owner?????

Granted, given the purchase price point of many of the rode hard and put away wet run out E53s, many people don't have the budget for such an aggressive PM schedule.

So that's how it goes, the old parts will fail on their schedule and not yours or if you are blessed enough to have a budget to replace before failure then you get to choose the time and place of your downtime for these items.

I am able to choose the latter and yield significant operating reliability and up time with my vehicles.

If you own one of these low acquisition cost high mileage specimens and would rather not be on the side of the road when a critical part decides to die, then consider replacing the things that keep the engine running: fuel, spark and air processing components.

:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

Mike

More like get a free tow to the nearest Walmart parking lot (road side service with insurance). I've done similar with Cam position sensor. Wife's X5 died on the freeway. I got a tow to a Walmart where I could leave overnight. Got a ride home stole my CPS from my X5, borrowed a car from a friend and drove back to Walmart about an hour away to swap in CPS. Got wife's X5 running and drove home, ordered a new OE CPS from Amazon and put in my X5 a few days later. Does help to have a clone X5 for such cases.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm sure rules are different regionally. We got pirates out here for the only authorized tow facility if you break down on the highway. Otherwise, it's a bit more reasonable if you get a tow on anything that is not on the highway

Ah just do the preventive maintenance thing and change the fuel pump before you go. Your pushing your luck. Give yourself some piece of mind comfort!!!!

More good info
 

I've always carried extra belts, fuses, bulbs, & supplies.


I don't see myself carrying a hammer and screw driver to replace a fuel pump.


I will get a CPS though

Could always seek the Unicorn Hitch, install and roll around like this

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...act=mrc&uact=8

Did some work on the x5 today; then started digging into the fuel pump issue.


Found no juice coming to the fuel pump.


The 25A Fuse #47 in the glove box looks OK.


I can feel the FP relay clicking when turning the key to pos 2.


Didn't have time to bench test the relay, so I ordered one from AutoZone ($19.00, want a spare anyway).


It should arrive by 6PM tonight.


Hoping that's the problem while I wait for the new FP and filter to arrive.

No such luck
 

I replaced the FP Relay; still,no power getting to the FP.


There may be an ignition switch of some type, not allowing the high voltage to go to the FP Relay.


:rofl:

What scanner are you using? Mine will show me each key terminal value etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Hi,


I have 2, one is a Bosch 1,000 and I have the free Torque app bluetoothed in.


Both read the original code; still learning the torque app.



I checked fuse (area) 51, it looks fine also.


Could the cam pos sensors shut down the juice to the relay?

The initial pulse to the fuel pump I think runs regardless of CPS. Without cps you won't get spark from my understanding.

To eliminate fuel control from the equation you can jump the relay once you confirm the live side of the relay has power I think that might be F51 unless that's just the control.

The control for the relay needs both power and ground. A lot of systems on E53 have always power and controlled by ground. See which fuel relay is and determine if part is missing.

Safety circuitry on most cars will kill fuel pump if SRS activated or flip over is detected. Was this car in an accident?

The Volvo I worked on I thought the fuel pump failed so I jumped the relay with my DMM on amp mode so I could also measure the fuel pump current (about 6 amps)

No accidents or floods according to seller.


Has a clean tit


Can't even copy and paste tonight. P1343 has 4 or 5 possible.


Faulty plug, coil, vacuum leak, CPS, ignition coil or harness.

Can you read your intake/exhaust vanos with your scanner? It will let you know your cps working


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'll check on vamos in the morning.


I'm pretty sure Torque has a widget for that.


I just watched a vid on testing the cps

More checking today; should first thank everyone for all the help.


Power exists at the relay terminals and at fuse 47.


Still no power to the pump.


Gonna check for ground continuity at the relay terminal and pump.


Currently flabbergasted on who designed the auto correct in my phone (a South Pacific cannabal?) and why an "easy fix" on this car isn't in the cards I've been dealt....


Might have to trailer this car to a pro-shop.

In the relay slot, I jumped from always hot (L/S) to bottom slot and current made it to fuel pump.


In the relay slot, the R/S (relay control) gonna investigate if it lights up with K/O/E/Off.

I only had the pump run for 6 seconds or so before start. I try to wait for the fuel pump whirr to stop before I crank.if you can not your fuel pump you might get a start if the problem is in the fuel pump control circuit. Can you do a full scan now and I errors?

Dono how to run a full scan with the equipment I have.


I'd appreciate a recommendation for a "full scan" tool I can buy or rent.


Power is coming into fuse 51, not reaching the control point for the relay.


The ground is good at the pump.

If you get voltage to the fuel pump when you jump the relay contact, I would think that the fuel pump relay is the problem. When you bypass the relay, does the fuel pump run? If yes, try starting the engine.

Well folks, I've reached the limit of my ability to diagnose this problem.
Thanks for all the help.
I'll necro-update if I get this figured out.

I use the foxwell NT510. It's saved my bacon numerous times.

As Don also mentioned: if you can get fuel pump to run try to start the car. You can figure out after why the fuel pump circuit isnt working.

Well, problem solved but I still want a professional scan on the car.



All the comments made above helped; the one comment about hearing the pump whirl when jumped seemed to be key.



I had ordered a new pump on day one; it arrived and I thought "why not drop it in".


There was some bright metal shavings at the bottom of the tank, I used a telescopic magnet to fish them out.


Car runs fine; gonna road test tomorrow.


Many thanks everyone.

Bravo! https://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/im...ilies/clap.gif

I think post number 34 was the key post to what was the problem.

If you're one of those drivers that run the gas to almost empty, STOP doing it. Gasoline is used to cool the electric motor and when you run the tank to almost empty you don't have enough gasoline to keep the motor cool. The motor will overheat and when the motor overheats, the solder on the commutator will start to melt and get flung out.

Nothing wrong with the fuel pump circuit. The circuit is only on for about 2 seconds when the key is turned to the run position. Unless you have a helper turning the key for you, by the time you turn the key on and go back to the fuel pump area, the circuit will have turn itself off if the engine isn't running. Set the test meter to beep or use a scope on the rope and observe if the scope light up when you turn the key to the run position.

What mileage is on this truck? I'd be willing to bet that was more of a factor than cooling on the pump. I drive from full to to dead empty on every tank and every vehicle I've owned. Only 1 pump failure on an e30 @ ~135,000 miles. I think the pump being submerged to prolong life is an old wives tale. But as always ymmv and do whatever gives the best feels. But, I have never run a pump completely dry... So maybe doing that can accelerate its demise.

Au Contraire mon ami

https://www.quora.com/Does-running-c...car-out-of-gas

More info on running the tank dry and its effect on a fuel pump.

https://community.cartalk.com/t/runn...uel-pump/39621

And last but not least this is what Consumer Report has to say on the subject of running the tank to almost empty.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...stly/index.htm

Second line in that article:

"Fuel pumps are either cooled by the gas around them or by the gas that is flowing through them."

It goes on to elaborate that running the pump dry is the major offense, not running the tank low.

Even CR, which I don't hold a lot of weight to when it comes to autos says, "The gasoline acts like a coolant for the electric fuel-pump motor, so when you run very low, this allows the pump to suck in air, which creates heat and can cause the fuel pump to wear prematurely and potentially fail."

This also says that dry running is what could kill the pump.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to do one thing or the other. Just stating my opinion that running from full to empty is probably not what killed a pump. Mileage/age is. If we were seeing pumps fail at 50,000 miles... I'd be inclined to possibly look into it further. But the only pumps I've seen fail have been well over 100,000 miles. Unless referring to the HPFP found in the certain variants of the e90/92 where there was a known early failure problem with them when they switched to direct injection. :dunno:

Don, we've been down the rabbit hole before: once the X5 gets to about 1/3 of a tank there will be 5.0L of gas around the pump no more no less so there is no difference whatsoever in how much cooling is supplied from being submerged until your distance to empty gets below 10 miles. Even during the last ten miles the fuel pump will remain fully submerged in fuel to keep it cool as there is almost a gallon of fuel that doesn't register on the gauge.

So: any of the old school thought process of keep a quarter tank etc having anything to do with the longevity of a fuel pump on the X5 simply does not apply it's perfectly safe to run down to the low fuel light every time.

At some point the siphon jet seal will fail and leave you stranded but a couple gallons of gas will get you home for a repair and then eventually the electric pump will fail and you'll need a tow. I have roadside assistance that costs me like $36/year for BOTH X5 and it paid for 5 years on the first time it was used.

The X5's fuel tank is effectively 5.0L once you are below about 1/3 of a tank so you would literally have to keep HALF a tank of gas at all times to increase the depth of the fuel above the pump. When below 1/3 of a tank there is no difference whatsoever in how deeply submerged the pump is from about 120 miles DTE to about 10 miles DTE the depth will be exactly the same as the pump well is overflowing to the left side of the tank continuously.

The biggest difference to pump longevity is alcohol. If you use shitty gas with 10% ethanol it will add 25% to the lifespan of your pump as Its life expectancy will go from 4000 to 5000 hours. (if you use 20% ethanol it goes to 6000). It will of course cost you a lot lot lot more $ in the shitty mpg and wear and tear on other parts but if you are forced to use shit gas at least there is one silver lining: longer lifespan of the pump

Follow up: it is bad to run a pump dry which on x5 can not happen until you drive about 15-20 miles AFTER DTE reads 0.0, unless your siphon jet has failed. There is no benefit at all for the X5 to have more than 1.4L of gas on the gauge at that point is were any additional fuel spills over from the pump side to the siphon side and provides no additional cooling due to being submerged. So for the X5, it is definitely an "old husband's tale" there is a benefit of having more than a couple gallons of gas in the tank. This only applies to the X5: I can't confirm any other cars that use this system, I've parked on a sloped driveway with 1/4 tank of gas and wasn't able to start my 2002 Ford explorer, most cars have a flat bottom tank with the pump which is not submerged for much of the time.

The X5 tank was designed to keep the pump submerged when going up and down steep terrain but has the side effect of keeping the pump completely submerged down to 0.0 miles to empty and from sucking air for another 10-15 miles past empty.

The X5 thinks it has A 5.0L gas tank: it is continuously refilled so it never drops but once there is less than about 1/3 of a tank the right side will show about 1.4L of gas down to about 7 miles to empty and only once you get closer than that to empty will the fuel pump start to have less fuel above it. You have to get below zero before the pump starts to become uncovered and to about negative 15 DTE before you risk actually running the pump dry.

Great experience for me; I cannot imagine a better learning situation than witnessing rational people in a rational discussion.


Me and fuel pumps...oh man. My 98 K1500 had 6 pumps before 200K miles; dealerships were happy when the warranty expired. Some told me the loud pump motor was normal, some said it was caused by a bad ground, and some told me the failures was do to heat; to keep a half tank.


The Bosch I have in the Chevy now has 100K+. That fuel pump R&R is a major PITA!



I live in a remote area and consider the vehicle gas tanks as generator fuel storrage; when the power fails for 7 days or more, that gas runs my freezer lol. So, keeping full tanks is important to us.


I don't think I'll run this pump below 1/4 until a level of trust sets in. Wife's uncertainty avoidance index is higher than mine, she refills at 1/2.

I'm parting a 2003 4.4i, i can get you a pump out of my car. PM me.

And you hit the nail on head: it's about personal feeling but here is the problem with the always fill before 1/4: you are settung up a false sense of security.

Exclusively due to my wife always find at a quarter tank I got stranded with slightly less than 1/4 tank because her practice was making a leak in the siphon jet pump.

The only real advantage of keeping more fuel in the tank is you can drive farther from home before having to stop, however dropping your range from 400-500 to 200-250 is not really a convenience in the long run.

Using test six you can confirm the siphon jet is working at least once a year or so.

But people that run it down to almost empty is more likely to run it dry if they can't get to a gas station in time, whereas people that fill up when it is down to 1/4 tank is less likely to run it dry.

I don't see how filling at 1/4 of a tank can creak a leak at the siphon jet pump. It would be better to blame the engineers at BMW for designing a siphon jet to transfer gas from one side of the tank to the other side of the tank instead of just designing a tank that isn't split into two tanks.

Or blame the BMW workers at the factory for a sloppy job of fitting the 0-ring.

But it is easier to blame a wife because she is in the habit of filling the BMW at 1/4 tank instead of running it down to almost empty instead of blaming yourself for not putting in gas when the gauge is down to 1/4 tank.

You missed the point entirely. If you always fill at 1/4 tank you will mask the fact that the siphon jet has failed. You won't realize that you CAN'T use the last 1/4 tank until it's too late. The false sense of security doesn't help you much.

Laws of physics dictate what I am saying.

On the X5 there is simply no difference between 1.4L of gas on the gauge and 30L of gas unless something is broken.

Feelings about the topic won't change the facts. There is not one cc of additional fuel either around or going through the fuel pump to cool it once the tank gets below 1/3 of a tank. The pump sits in a well that holds 5L of gas only. Any extra spills over to the left side.

The only way to know if the MFG defect of the badly designed siphon jet o-ring has failed is to drive the car down to near empty and monitor the liters of gas in the tank.

When the system is working, you can safely drive down to about 7 miles distance to empty with no possible additional wear on your fuel pump and If it's not working it's better to find and fix the problem rather than find out the one time you drive lower than 1/4 tank because you are on a road trip and want to go more than 300 miles without stopping.

Although the principle of keeping enough gas to keep the pump cool still applies, the amount to do that is NOT 1/4 tank on the X5 it is 1.4L on the gauge. You definitely want to keep at least 1.4L of gas in your tank to make sure the fuel pump is properly covered and cooled. Any more than that simply spills out of the pump well and makes no difference to the system whatsoever.

Now technically, since the unused gas does go around in circles from pump to FPR to the left tank back to the right tank, there is a tiny advantage of having more liters of fuel to warm up but it will only amount to a few degrees in temp because by the time it would cause a problem, you would have to stop for gas anyhow and have a fresh tank of 55° fuel to keep things cool.

Fact: the o-ring design of the siphon jet is piss poor. It makes no sense to have something made of plastic that holds 18 psi and only held on one side it's a doomed design, a fact proven by the countless examples of identical failure you can find online.

Fact: once the siphon jet o-ring fails you will not know it fails until you try to drive to a low DTE.

Fact: the right side of X5 tank only holds 5L of which only 1.4L shows on the gauge. At 0.0L on the gauge the pump will still be completely submerged

All rational for keeping more than 1/4 of a tank is psychological. I'm not saying there aren't very good reasons like the guy above who can use the gas for emergency power generator I'm just saying the the 1950s rationale that is presented by consumer reports may have applied and may still apply to other cars but doesn't apply to the X5 because of the way the tank is designed the "1/4 tank" literally translates to the "1.4L rule".

The X5 fuel can't tell the difference between 1.4L and 28L as any more than 1.4 on the gauge spills out of the right side and won't add 1 mm of additional fuel above the pump.

If I'm missing some scientific fact I would love to know if I'm wrong but that's not the way to bet, especially when using ethanol polluted gas which removes any water and extends the fuel pump lifespan.

So; for those not confident their siphon jet is working, put a portable tank of gas in your trunk, set up test six and drive down to single digits to confirm your fuel pumps are working and grow some confidence or discover your siphon jet is leaking and fix it for a couple bucks. Once you know your pump is working you can quite safely run down to the low fuel light every tank (8L/10L on the gauge, 11.6/13.6L actual).

It doesn't help you in the long run to hide when your siphon jet fails, as it will slowly strand you with a higher and higher distance to empty. It makes no sense to keep extra unused gas in the tank rather than fix the prob and be able to use your full tank.

Once you know your siphon jet is working than by all means for any of a bunch of personal reasons keep your tank with as much gas as makes you comfortable. filling at 1/4 or 1/2 a tank will be absolutely more inconvenient in the long run but if the trade off and the false sense of security helps you sleep better more power to you.

Fact: when they do long term tests on fuel pumps the fuel is pumped in circles out and into a 5gal bucket for months, no cooling needed other than it's in a lab perhaps 75-80F. Even when down to say 10-15L of gas circling around for the hour or so before you need to get fuel, there is virtually no chance that little bit of extra heat will cause any harm.

I'm not exactly sure what the argument is: it's absolutely fact the pump on the X5 is completely submerged when there is 0.0L or more on the gauge, so to the CAR there is no advantage to have more than that for the fuel pump.

That all said for DIESEL that's a different story as water sinks and if there is more diesel swirling around from right to left then hopefully it gets diluted more when more fuel to get sucked out and consumed. If I had a diesel I would probably regularly refill at 50-60 miles and only run down to single digits once a year to make sure siphon jet was working. The less fuel the bigger odds the water % gets higher.