Little help on on tire size please...
 

Edit: If anyone in the future wants to know how this turned out, as I know it would have helped me:

265/40/22
305/35/22

https://i.imgur.com/Y2PvE9E.jpg

IMO, the 22" don't actually look out of place. I was expecting to see it as an X5 on wagon wheels and was second-guessing my choice but it turned out looking great and fitting very well.

Original post:

Hello, I'm new here but not new to BMWs or cars, fitment, etc. Glad to see a BMW forum that's actually still active.

I am a new owner of an 06 4.4i and have fallen knee-deep into modifications already and am considering a set of (wait for it) 22" wheels:

22x9.5F ET25
22x11R ET30

I mainly need to know if anyone has experience with running taller wheels that could potentially interfere with steering components, strut, etc up front. Or if there any other specific caveats I should know of about running a large-diameter wheel on this chassis.

I find what makes such large wheels look "odd" is the thin sidewall, making the wheel gap draw more attention and of course reducing ride quality.

These are what other members have run with 22s in similar widths that I've found on the forum:

265/35/22
315/30/22

Or something F+R with a similar tire profile of 95mm. (3.7")
Overall diameter of 747mm. (29.4")

I'd like to run:

265/40/22
305/35/22

Giving me a tire profile of 107mm (4.2")
Overall diameter of 772mm (30.4")

If anyone has run these sizes please chime in!

Would the taller diameter present a problem in hitting components of the suspension?

I'd found a thread where an owner was running 265/70/17, which is an overall diameter of 803mm (31.6"), but he seemed to be a unique case, and another member tried that size and got rubbing.

Any input would be appreciated, thanks....and sorry for all the numbers on a Monday.

Does this calculator help?

https://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

Appreciate the link, but not quite.

As you can see I've done a lot of the wheel/tire size comparos, but what I'm really looking for is input on whether a tall wheel will cause issues with rubbing/contact with the body or suspension parts, or cause any other issues on this specific chassis.

Or of course experience running any 22" wheel/tire combo on an E53.

I think you are missing the point of large rim diameter. It's how you run a lower ratio tire on the same tire diameter so you can get higher cornering performance and lower unsprung wheel / tire weight and all the helpfulness that comes with.

Consider this: BMW chose from all possibilities to use 285/35/21 on the front of their highest performance X5M. Do you think you will achieve a better solution with "seat of pants" engineering?

The combination you chose is about 6% larger diameter and I'm pretty sure you will find other problems than a large speedo error.

It's not an accident that all the BMW approved sizes are within 1% rolling circumference.

https://www.carbibles.com/calculators/

Use the tire size comparison calculator to find a size you'd be happy with that is within say 2% of the original circumference.

Example: 255/55/18 and 255/50/19 are identical diameter.

255/35/22 is the magic combination that nets you the same diameter.

265/35/22 is a decent match
255/35/22 is an exact match

295/30/22 is an exact match
305/30/22 is likely an ok match to the 265/35/22


If I was going to set up an X5 on 22" rims I would run:

255/35/22 front 295/30/22 back. They are within 0.2% the same size and very close to the design size for the car.

255/40/22 & 295/35/22 is about 4% bigger than stock. I would not recommend larger than stock by more than 1% though, your affect all dynamics of handling, for what purpose?

If you want a softer ride with trade off of lower cornering performance, the alternative set is:

235/40/22 & 265/35/22.

There just is no good reason to upsize the wheel and tire that I'm aware of.

If you are aiming for a lowered look and fill the wheel well for a "low rider" look with the trade off of performance, that's a reason but the trade off will be rubbing tires on the wheel wells and worse handling.

275/315 fits in the wheel wells of the X5.

Actually 285/35/21 & 325/30/21 were used on the newer M model. That's actually smaller rolling circumference than the base sport tire.

Ok. I guess you are trying to help in your own condescending way. I guess that's how you need to be :dunno:

At what point did I claim I am trying to achieve a better solution to BMW's engineering team on the X5M? Where did that even come from? Not to mention you're attempting to compare a wheel/tire size decision from a completely different chassis.

I am aware that upsizing the diameter is going to reduce things in a lot of ways. Speedo? Not a concern of mine. Brakes, CV axles, bushings, bearings, etc are all going to wear faster. As for the trade off in performance, this isn't my performance vehicle. I have other cars for that and I'm fine with this decision, thanks for your input. Not everybody is using their SAV for time attacks.

I'm aware that the combination I suggested is increasing rolling circumference.

The front and rear sizes I'd like to run are well-matched. In your post are you suggesting I run a 235 on a 9.5" wheel? and a 265 on an 11" wheel? That's quite a stretch, which is not what I'm looking to do.

Again, what does the X5M matter when considering an E53? The 4.4i was offered with a 285/45/19, which is a 4.3-4.5% difference in circumference front to rear from the sizes I'd proposed. This is reasonable to me. Even within the 4.4i model range, BMW used wheel sizes that are 1.4%+ different circumference from each other.

As for whatever this was about, I'm not going for a "low rider" look, one would think I'd explained myself enough in my first post. On the contrary, "low riders" want slim tire profiles. I am doing the exact opposite.

So to reiterate, I was only looking to find out whether the taller diameter is going to cause issues rubbing/knocking on anything with my proposed wheel/tire combo. And the front offset is 20mm further out, so there should be a bit more forgiveness there.

I actually was able to find a couple of threads finally where some members used the sizes I'm proposing without issues of rubbing. But I would still like to hear any other input from people who have done something similar, more on topic input never hurts.

Edit: If anyone is wondering why I'd choose 22" wheels, it's because I couldn't find OE 20" style 168, but I did somehow stumble upon a set of the old 168 replicas in 22" locally. The style looks too good not to run them for a while.

With only 6 posts to your username, you likely don’t realize that Andrewwynn is one of the most knowledgeable participants on this board, having done some excellent research, tear-aparts, videos and write-ups with photos. I have relied on and enjoyed his efforts, and would take his advice as I’m sure it was intended (helpful from a position of knowledge and experience and not condescending).

I took his post to be on the consequences of your upsizing decision, which you did not acknowledge in your initial post, and which could be significant with respect to drivetrain and electronics issues. The X5M is relevant as a “boundary” vehicle with the extent to which BMW engineers would go; to go farther is of course possible but of questionable value and with some risk if BMW chose not to themselves. My sense is that he was just trying to help you realize this.

FWIW I have 20s on my X5 and wouldn’t go larger for both ride comfort and the reasons Andrewwynn mentioned.

Facts don't have feelings; if you heard condescending tone you invented that in your head sorry about that. I was just laying out factual details you can use to help decide your path.

That being said there is a thread on the E70 forum where a guy put 265/50/20s on his E70 which is said to have a little less room for tires.

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forum.....res-today.html

That size is almost exactly the same as your target and I think the guy drove across Alaska with the setup.

You may need some spacers to get them correctly positioned in/out and prevent/reduce rubbing, and with the wider option in the rear vs the square setup this other guy had gives you more chance for rubbing in the rear.

I did not find example where somebody had both the over sized tire and 305 width but it looks pretty promising.

I would do some Photoshop with the different ratio options (i think some tire sites will do tire size simulation) so you can see what the difference would look like before buying the tires.

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=802986

Another thread where somebody mentions the max size you can fit without a lift kit. It's almost exactly the diameter of your goal tire: not as wide again In the rear so that's the main question: you said you found somebody that put on the same sizes as you were hoping to use, not sure if that also included the wider rear tire or if it included the wider rim, but there are some useful references of people that have done very similar tires to your goal that you can use to make an informed decision.

From a look standpoint, I don't think a completely filled wheel well is any better a look than a 2" thin sidewall crazy low profile tire on a big rim they basically are both variants of "low rider". The main advantage of higher ratio will be a softer ride which is a reasonable excuse to fill the wheel well, I just don't think it will look better than the more advised options (one step lower profile than you wish to use). That's why I said get tire scale photos and Photoshop them on your car: you may love the look and it's far more important you like It.

I don't think in the real world you will find any significant difference in road feel between 35 and 40 ratio tires and they will both be obviously very low profile on 22s there is no getting around that. So back to Photoshop: which will look nicer: more filled wheel well making the car look dropped, or a thinner sidewall making the car look more like a racer ?

If I had an opportunity to pick up a set of rims in a style I really liked I'd be working to solve the same problem. I would as I mentioned first aim for closer to 1-2% oversized vs 4-5% for numerous reasons but there is support for going up to the size of your target and does not seem unreasonable, other than I did not see much response to the queries of did you have rubbing problems etc; not a lot of follow-up from the guys that did the oversize mods.

ACHTUNG,

I run low profile tires and unless you have really good roads you're likely to be needing rims quickly. I have damn near shattered a rim on a pothole here, so be advised.

And on another note, you may want to pull your horns in as Andrew is one of the most knowledgeable and nicest guys on here and there's no way he would get snippy or condescending with anyone here. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...83690c3608.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fc320681b5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8f4ed4157b.jpg

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I am currently running 17" wheels. I have run 20". I went back to the 17" because I didn't like the harshness of the ride with the 20's. They were wide too and seemed to want to wander when encountering cracks and things in the roadway. I loved the way they looked, but my X is a daily driver, so comfort one out.

Personal opinion: I don't like the look of super large rims with thin tires.

Which is the option of the OP. My contention is that with 22s, there is no getting around the thin sidewall look. By the time you'd have a tall enough ratio tire you'll either run the wheel well or just have a lowrider look of no space around the wheel that is not a better look than a thin sidewall.

Looking at the pics of the max'd tire size I wasn't a fan, but it should work I just as noted recommend making a preview in Photoshop before buying max'd out tire sizes.

I appreciate the input thus far, thanks. The roads here are generally good, but barrel cracks are one of the reasons I'd like to go with a higher profile tire but it seems a 305/35 may not even be enough from that last pic...maybe a 305/60? (not serious)

As for andrewwynn being very knowledgeable around here, with complete sincerity, that's excellent as these forums are dying out without such people and I'm grateful for those folks.

The fact that I have 6 posts on this particular forum doesn't state anything about my experience with BMWs. If it helps, I have significant experience on the E36 M3 chassis and all that's come with pushing the boundaries of that chassis over the last nearly 20 years from wheel fitment for track, to as fully built an NA motor as one can get. I have experience with previous non-BMW cars as well. My recent pride and joy of 4 years is my E31 850i that I've done a near complete restore on.

I tend to look more at what's being said than who says it.

I've lurked these boards for months as well to learn for this purchasing decision, but I'd made this thread as I'm not as knowledgeable as those with experience with the chassis for specifically fitting tall wheel/tire combos.


I think the seat of the pants comment was not constructive and I do think you realize that, despite stating it's in my head. Perhaps that set the tone incorrectly of the rest of the post. In any case, it's all good. I appreciate your input and posting those threads and information. Your knowledge of the chassis and forum is appreciated.

I originally had found a poster who ran the 22" 168s:

https://xoutpost.com/526985-post19.html

On similar tires to what you'd recommend. From the tire size calc, it looks like that photo could handle 1.25cm on either side from the outside, but can't really judge on what a lock to lock turn would do on the inside. The profile in that pic is what made me want a larger sidewall tire initially. I'll see how the look of a taller profile really compares in photoshop.

This was the one I'd seen for the fronts only which you may also have seen:

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...004-4-6is.html

These were the most extreme example of tire size if you're curious:

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...-1st-gear.html

https://xoutpost.com/393688-post1.html

Over 3cm greater diameter than my proposed front size.

I'd also seen a handful of 265/65/17 which is slightly larger than the diameter I'd been looking at.

Though a difference in tire manufacturer running wide could be the difference I wouldn't want to encounter so I'll have to be careful with that as I continue my research.

I do wish I could have found the 168s in 20" and am still keeping an eye out for a decent price. It is very very uncommon to have found the 22" replicas in my town where very few rare BMW parts are ever found, so I had to jump on them.

The "seat of pants" is not a derogatory term it's factual. Your "gut feeling" of what could work, there is no offense meant by it it's simply saying you didn't do any real world testing to get to your target goal, you are attempting to massage a happenstance of what you came across into a working solution.

I make seat of pants calls every day, I'm just pointing out facts like I said before facts dont have feelings, and I think you are right exactly on the border of what will fit. I recommend making some CG versions to help you decide, and it won't hurt to find other examples of real world examples but with some follow up that weren't really in the Alaska example I found nor the other example which has the diameter but not the width.

My expertise is problem solving but it's still theoretical until you actually mount the exact rims which I believe are wider than the examples I found.

I wouldn't veto the choice from a will It fit standpoint, I'm just throwing out a dose of caution based on real world examples where people have gotten that diameter to work but after adding 20mm spacers but I don't know what the ET nor the width of the rims.

I have no doubt the front choice would work, but I didn't see a real world example of the rear though I didn't look at the links just sent above.

I'm just pointing out (again) that if the goal is a thicker sidewall for looks, you may like the no space around the tire less than the thin sidewall so make some quick photo overlays to help you decide.. I've not been against the idea of getting the solution to work, I'm just giving you all the options that make sense (not discounting your target goal), just pointing out some pitfalls you may have overlooked.

You may prefer the totally filled wheel well look and than you're golden, I'm just saying many/most wouldn't like It so if you go that route make sure.

Also: if you as you pointed out aren't planning on putting the car on a track, why maximize the width of the rear tires? Come down a section size and you can bring up the ratio one step, it'll give you more sidewall, softer ride though with 11" rims you might need to stick with 315s.

I would like to see you come up with the best solution to get those 22s. I've not been trying to poo poo the idea.

Case in point: the post above where they tried 20s didn't like. I'm literally just trying to play devil's advocate to make sure you look from all sides.

If you end up with the 5% upscale tires and they fit and look badass I'll be the first to say good job.

I want only for you to be 100% confident and I think it will be great if you work out a good solution to take advantage of finding those wheels.

What you mistakenly thought was condescending tone was just in line with your own mention of basically saying "yikes 22" rims. You started your post admitting right off the bat the idea was at the very least "fringe" so don't feel bad when I simply agreed with that thought and said that I personally wouldn't push it to the limit of what fits.

That being said, I doubt a lift kit would be very expensive in the long run, and if that's what it took to hit this solution out of the park, make a Photoshop of that case as well. I don't doubt a very workable solution is there.

Little help on on tire size please...
 

I just reviewed the initial post and saw that your target was 305 not 315, with that taken into account and the thread above with the 295/45/20 indicated as a success and only 1cm wider 305 which is 1cm narrower than the 315 on the M, that will help just enough I think to get you a rub free ride (spacers notwithstanding). The target size you want is considerably smaller than the 265/70/17 winter tires from the thread above so I think you have what you need to know they will fit and work. It's very hard to get the ET spot on until you mount the tires.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b62c50323e.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6e1b13f87c.jpg

Bonus: quick iPhone edit of the 20s from the previous thread stepped up to a simulation of 22s.

I think it looks pretty good. And as your goal: nicer than the super low profile of sticking with the stock overall diameter.

I'm a little concerned about the slight difference of the rolling circumference didn't you say you are x-drive model? They are more picky about exact match tores: consider that with 1cm different rolling circumference that every mile one axle is trying to go 700cm or 23feet Farther, I'm not sure where that extra goes: slip in the transfer case or slip on the tires.

I just found this;.

I didn't take note of the previous thread if it was x-drive but I don't take too much stock in the 3% spec as there is no way I'm aware of the car computer can determine the size of the tire on an E53. Bigger tire will just make the computer think you are going slower.

You're a gem, thanks for all your help. I'm hoping the 3% quotient won't be an issue. But the proposed 265/40 and 305/35 tires are within 0.3% of each other so I'm hoping that will be all that matters. And the look you edited seems to look pretty decent. I managed to find this X5 from Estonia with the exact 305/35/22...all around and from some angled they look good

https://i.imgur.com/80br1w0.jpg

and from others they look like massive wagon wheels

https://i.imgur.com/pXcQbx4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Y5zDpvo.jpg

vs

https://i.imgur.com/hU2Wru3.jpg


hmm. This will take some thought. Thanks again for your input.

I will also be installing a 4.6is front brake setup at the same time so that should bring some of the stopping power back to earth at least.

There is no getting around this being large wheels. I think I like the 22s better than the same size balloon tire on 18s though.

I'm quite sure in real life some angles will appear comically large but you are aiming for a smaller cross section in front which will reduce how many view angles will give you that reaction.

The 0.3% is the important number and I don't know where the 3% was derived, and like I said, I'm not aware of any way the computer can tell. The biggest real world issue is the change in the center of gravity and implications in stability.

Edit: If anyone in the future wants to know how this turned out, as I know it would have helped me:

265/40/22
305/35/22

https://i.imgur.com/Y2PvE9E.jpg

IMO, the 22" don't actually look out of place. I was expecting to see it as an X5 on wagon wheels and was second-guessing my choice but it turned out looking great and fitting very well.

Looks darn nice.


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