P0011 Code 2001 X5 4.4 M62 V8 -New Owner-
 

Hey Guys,

A friend recently gave me an 01 X5 with 118,000 miles. I am the third owner, the first bought it new and had it serviced meticulously.

It runs great and everything works as it should except it the Service Engine light has been coming on for the P0011 code.

1. I swapped CPSs to see if code would show on other side and nope came right back to Bank 1.

2. It is quiet upon start up, but makes a very soft clug-clug-clug sound when hot.

I plan to check oil pan for plastic debris, what other things can I do to pinpoint the cause?

I am pretty decent with a wrench,(started on wrenching on 60's american cars) but my first bimmer might as well be a alien space craft.

You can use an inspection camera through the oil fill to check on the condition of the timing chain guides.

Their is a chance the timing is off from leaky vanos seal. The DIY Is not terrible and the kit for the seals is like $60 or so. (Get the spare seal I'm case it ends up being a practice one).

I developed a trick to get the seal in that turns it from an 8/10 to a 3/10 difficulty so check back if you determine that's the problem.

The concern I have in your case is the reading was dropping out. If that's not in the cps (didn't change sides when swapping) either it's wiring or in the DME or the DME is making an error deciding what to report (eg vanos changing faster than normally possible due to weak seal, DME reports out of range cam angle).

I found a thread on a 740 with same symptoms and vanos was the cure.

Thanks for your prompt reply. So far the oil filter is free of debris, next I will check pan and borescope oil filler to rule out cooked guides.

1. By leaky VANOS seal, you mean the sprocket thing?

2. DME=ECU or main computer correct?

3. By wiring in DME you mean a corroded or loose connection or bad capacitors in DME?

4. Can Vanos solenoid itself be causing this?

I'd rather not tear it down and throw parts at it, how would you go about diagnosing these?

The sprocket thing is the vanos unit.

DME is the main computer. Digital Motor Electronics.

Realtime reading of the cam angle with software and a laptop or I use foxwell NT510 will help root out what's going on.

Usually when the fault is within the cps, the primary symptom is the car will shut off on throttle off while driving slowly. Eg, coming into a parking spot the car will stall.

If the DME can't read the cam angle it will shut off the car to avoid self destruct. If the car keeps running but you get a code it's more likely to be something else.

Were it my car I'd swap vanos solinoids to see if the problem changes sides. A pressure problem from the solinoid for cause similar symptoms.

You can get a sense of chain guide health from tension on the chain through the oil fill port also when just shutting off the engine and it coasts to a stop, the tensioner drops to just the spring pressure and the chain will rattle if the guides are shot.

Ok, again car never stalls or misses etc so I am leaning toward VANOS. No shut off rattle.

1. Can Vanos/solenoid on either bank (right or left) cause the P0011 ? Or am I just concerned with bank 1 vanos (right/ U.S. passenger)?

2. Am I checking chain for tension or deflection through oil fill? How much is acceptable?

3. Cheap Scan tool showed timing varying from 11 degrees to 18.5 when idling warm. But it mostly stayed 12.5.13.5 with the occasional variation to 11-18.5 --Is this normal ? VVT engines are above my paygrade.
Thank you again!

The two banks should be similar. I don't remember how much change at idle. I have M54 engine and have watched the cam position over time while using cruise control and it's fairly predicable.
I would take a test drive and monitor with cruise. If you can plot a graph of both intake angle that would be very helpful. If one is more erratic that will help you track down the problem.

O.K.

I pulled the lower pan and found no evidence of broken plastic; just a small amount of crumbly sludge particles hopefully.

Now I changed the oil which was very dirty and old, PO followed the 10-15K service interval...

Anyway, I went on to replace the passenger side VANOS solenoid (Bank 1) and as soon as I started it back up the P0011 code came back! (it had been gone for several driving cycles after clear)

1. What does this mean--Vanos seals?

2. Can driver side (Bank 2) Vanos solenoid trigger P0011 or does it only trigger P0021 ?

3. I noticed I could spin the metal interior part of the VANOS solenoid 360 degrees, that is if you held the coil housing part still, you could then spin the machined part with holes completely around(yellow). --Does this mean it was failed?

The vanos solinoids are radially symmetrical, it shouldn't matter if the innery part is rotated I thought I wrecked one when I tried to remove with a big slip joint pliers and the outer shell spun and spun.

Great news on the no plastic!

A few things will mess with the timing and give you that code but best bet: cam position sensor. You have four so you can do a lot of swapping to track an error.

"Passenger" side not meaningful on a world wide forum. That's right USA left UK and Australia. Use LEFT and RIGHT (of the CAR OF COURSE) Where YOUR left is has ZERO bearing on where the LEFT side of the car is. The fuel door is always on the RIGHT size regardless if you are facing it from the front and it's on YOUR left.

The M62 I worked on has either or both of those errors. Swapped some CPS from another M62 in the shop and problem vaporized. There's two power side and the error is a generic one that doesn't say intake or exhaust.

My first repair on my M54 was replacing the CPS on the intake. If that was my engine it would have been my first thing to do replace all four.

Use only OEM quality CPS. They are very very sensitive and perfection counts in this department.


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Duly noted.

I was only aware of two CPSs--on the front of either bank just about vanos solenoid. I swapped the right side with the left a month ago to no avail.

My logic is that the P0011 code indicates a right side fault, so if it was only the sensor, then moving it to the left side would trigger the P0021 code, no?

Where are the other two CPS??

Thanks

P0011 Code 2001 X5 4.4 M62 V8 -New Owner-
 

Sorry I may have confused two motors. Mine has intake and exhaust yours only has intake CPS. It has cam position sensor that will give the computer relative position of the exhaust ports.

It's possible the timing disc gets bent that will wreak havoc.

Alright so I only have two CPS? I did switch them and the P0011 still returned. Do you have anymore ideas?

Need a new one. They can both be the same worn and interacting badly with the disk. Also especially if the right bank I'm still not sure if it was the right, it's possible to damage the timing disk through the oil fill port.

Ok---Not sure I follow about damaging timing disc through oil fill port?

I guess I will order replacements--Are there any acceptable after market brands.... Femi?

At 118K miles what are the odds this is a timing chain guide problem or are we still looking at VANOS seals?
Thanks

Also, is there a way to diagnose CPS with an ohm-meter or similar means? Don't want to throw parts at it...

P0011 Code 2001 X5 4.4 M62 V8 -New Owner-
 

Unfortunately no test for badly working CPS other than it doesn't work well in a car. The only time Ive ever seen the cam too advanced error the fix was replace the CPS.

I bought my CPS from Amazon from a place that said It was OEM from Germany. The instructions came in German they looked identical to the BMW part without the logo and worked flawlessly for 35,000 miles. (And still going. Both our M54 have this same part, both replaced with same OEM Amazon part.

Our CPS lasted about 4000 hours. (Both). I would have no problem recommendation of preventive replacement at about 4000 hours or whenever they are a likely candidate for causing problems.

I was just reading up on how the vanos functions and it sounds like it's possible for a bad seal to cause it to wander.

Did you already swap vanos solinoids?

If the solinoid is set to maintain cam position but leaks then it may advance the cam. You mentioned one that spins. They might both do that but one takes a lot more effort because of tight seals.

The CPS could be the symptom not the cause. You definitely want to swap solinoids and see if the problem swaps banks.

You may have already tried that. I didn't remember.

Re: bent disk; is for example somebody used a boroscope to look at the chain guides, it's quite possible to bend the disc that the CPS detects. When that is bent it will cause misreading of the cam position just like when out CPS.

I doubt disc is bent, this truck was routinely maintenanced by reputable shops by the PO who bought it new.


I have replaced both VANOS solenoids with new as of today. I switched CPS left and right to see if code moves.

Again, engine runs beautifully and only noise it makes is a very soft clug clug clug clug when idling HOT.

oil Pan and filter was clear of debris.

This P0011 code has been persistent, coming back every 6 starts or so, but why?? Hasn't come on since both vanos replacement but it probably will.

Have you watched real-time cam position? On the M62 I repaired with the code, one cam was clearly different than the other. It helped me determine which side was at fault.


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One thing to note as a new owner, is that the ability to get real time engine info will make things vastly easier on diagnosis and repair.

There’s several software options, including the actual BMW dealer software. Often owners will use an old laptop dedicated to the software. My garage laptop is an old IBM t60 thinkpad.

I don't like the laptop solution but it's inexpensive and If you already have a garage laptop that's the way to go.

PA soft, INPA search and you'll find.

I have the foxwell NT510. It's pokey but it does what I need and super helpful.


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I have a $50 scan tool, will that display the actual cam posistions?

Also, what do I need to use the computer, Windows XP? How does it connect to the car?

There’s a whole BMW community that has been modifying and tweaking the dealer software for years. So there’s many, many options.

Don’t fall for the eBay scammers selling crap versions.

There’s several forums, but I won’t link to non BMW forums here.

This is a good starter page:

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=561237

Note: XP works fine. Some of the older packages require it.

Most of the software is PRE XP part of why it's so cringe worthy to me. Not likely to get real-time cam position on a generic scanner but it's worth looking. Sometimes it's easier to find things on my scanner in dumb mode (generic OBD) than full BMW mode.

P0011 on the m62tu means the motor cannot adjust timing on that bank. Could be as simple as a non aligned reflector wheel, could be a vanos gear that's defective(I doubt it) or you've lost chain guide plastic that's not showing itself in the pan yet. Inpa will give live cam sensor readings to help better determine the root cause.

XP is not required to load inpa. Can be done on win 7, 8 and vista.

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Thank you. Can a reflector wheel become unaligned on its own or must someone have messed with it?

This truck was dealer maintained its whole life. I've already got several hundred into the car, I am trying to determine if it will last a couple years or if this P0011 indicates imminent failure, --is there nothing I can do short of plugging it into a PC?

Well, I meant to type Reluctor wheel, apologies for that autocorrect. It's rare that this wheel moves on it's own, if ever. If someone recently did the chain guides, it's possible they didn't properly align the wheel. Good news is it's easy to realign without going into the motor, but you'll need cam locks as this procedure requires the motor be locked at tdc. If chain guides have never been done, I'd start preparing my mind for the task. Few and far between are the times p0011 and p0021 aren't directly related to chain guide failure.

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Even when the pan is completely clear of debris? Oil filter was clean as well. Only 118K miles... I'd probably part with it if the guides are going as I need another project like I need a hole in my head.

At this point, all I can do is speculate. I'd strongly suggest getting inpa and looking at live values. Perhaps if there is a local member with it that can assist? To be fair, I do sell complete diagnostic laptops that work on all obd2 e chassis BMW's, but do not think this will help you at this time, especially if it turns out that there is guide failure and you plan to ditch

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P0011 Code 2001 X5 4.4 M62 V8 -New Owner-
 

Swap of CPS didn't swap the bank error so next item in the chain is the solinoid then the vanos.

There are a couple bits involved in getting oil pressure to vanos so it could be an internal bit. This engine is way too young to have chain guide failure without some extra special circumstances.

Did you say already put in new CPS? New solinoid? Swap solinoid and see if error returns.

I don't have access to an M62 anymore to make a graphic of normal cam activity but somebody might. I can do for my M54 just as a rough idea.

From what I experienced with m62tu, P0011 usually means broken timing chain guide especially at this age/mileage.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...14507c8b09.jpg

Here's my M54 intake cam position requested v. actual. If I stab the throttle I'll get a jump down. Notice how the actual can't keep up with an instant Jan but if I slowly press the gas it's much closer.

When I was checking on M62 motor I put both actual values on the same graph and it will really make it clear if one is reading oddly.

118,000 is way too young to expect timing chain problem other than if the tensioner is broken. That will affect the right bank.

You can see the timing chain through the oil fill. I can't remember if the oil will spray out if open when running but you might be able to see the chain enough to see if there is slack especially use slow motion video to capture.

Also, the M62tu I worked on the exact error came on immediately AFTER replacing the timing chain guides.


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Thank you all. I do appreciate it. I have a borescope I will use to take a look with the engine off. It does spray oil when its on.

Tensioner is brand new, updated style.
Both vanos solenoids are brand new
CPS are old BMW which I swapped sides to move code--It did not , P0011 returned.

Still have been driving it, runs great as ever. P0011 has not returned for a few days.

New solinoid old CPS did the code come back quickly before? You did suspect the vanos solinoid, correct? Did you remember which side had the easy to spin solinoid?

My guide went @ 152000 km. That's about 95000 mile.

1. Swapped CPS from Bank 1 to 2 and Vice versa. Code came a back after a few starts.

2. New chain tensioner, code came back after a few more days.

3.Both sides had the easy spin solenoid. The new ones are completely tight.

Code came on immediately after replacing Bank 1 solenoid. I cleared it and replaced bank 2, no code yet.

The code seems to return every six starts or so.

I would really like to keep the car and dig into it as it is in very nice shape, but I cannot financially justify the $1,000+ cost to replace the guides and what have you.

I totally hear you cannot justifying $1000 for guides, especially when the car worth so much.
The problem you are having will eventually come down to broken guides. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Ouch close to half the normal. 150-160 is the usual lifespan or so I'm told. That said, zero percent chance guides are starting to fall and no plastic in the oil pan.

I would absolutely spend $1000 on a car "worth $3000" it's value is depressed becuase of the chain guides. Not that non X5 owners will know that. The only thing that irks me is the random computer glitches like reading O2 sensors heater wrong and setting MIL so you can't pass emissions. The mechanical stuff is mostly well enginereed and mostly reasonable to work on.

I haven't dug into the M54 but after looking at my cam position tracking and having a minor oil leak that is likely valve cover, I think I'll be doing vanos seal refresh within the next year.

So indications are solinoid was at fault? If you went from immediate error to hasn't returned yet that's pretty clear evidence.

Possibly, now I am thinking the immediate error came on due to the 1) vanos being drained of oil and thus not complying with the DME's commands.

or

2) It was the magical 6th start which precipitates the code.

Either way, there are no codes or pending codes as of now. So I will see after a few more start cycles.

Also, if I could get 50,000 or even 30,000 miles out of it I would be very pleased. I am hoping the fact that it was only owned by an older gentleman and religiously serviced would buy me some time. After all, some people are up to 250K on original guides.

I am new to bmw so thanks for putting up with me.

I have a theory on the guides after replacing on two M62tu: they are very brittle after time so they only need some impact to cause the initial shatter.

The chain is in more or less a large "V" doubled over and the upper V part is guided around the water pump by the chain guide. If the chain is not held tight you just need a combination of off throttle to slack the chain and hit a bump, the chain will come off the chain guide from momentum and then snap back up into the brittle plastic chain guide and shatter.

Probably the most important factor to avoid this is periodic replacement of the chain tensioner. Second, regular oil changes to make sure the viscosity is correct to build the right pressure in the chain tensioner.

Don't know what the proper replacement schedule is but "less than 160,000" for sure. I've found recommended 100,000 mile replace interval but not official BMW. I'm quite confident based on some M62 over 200,000 miles on original guides and the case above less than 100,000 that the tensioner is a huge deal at preventive maintenance to keep your guides from self destuction.

If I had an M62 motor with over 100,000 miles I would buy a new OE/OEM chain tensioner literally today I wouldn't wait one day.

@OP: if I think you may have stumbled into saving your guides by accident.

If your codes return the next thing is either CPS or vanos. You would need to plot a graph like I did above to compare the requested vs actual cam position. If the vanos seals have worn enough they can't keep up or hold steady.

The first M62 I redid the guides, I got the same codes and it was just the CPS in my case.

I would definitely get a scan of the graph of your cam position so you know more info. Eg worn vanos but not enough to set MIL.

Interesting, If I do keep it I will look into getting a laptop with INPA.

About the oil, would a higher or lower viscosity prolong the guides?

Two schools of thought, higher viscosity could provide more "cushion" and keep the pressure up

On the other hand, heavier oil might take too long to build pressure in the tensioner?

I have Semi-syn high-mileage 10w-40 in there. I figured it would hold pressure between the vanos seals better if they are worn as well as protect the plastic guides. Part of me also thinks the lower weight oils were spec'd for fuel economy/ environmental reasons...

All "theories" wrong. Stick with recommended oil. I heard that Mobil 1 recently reformulated, I would possibly switch to Castroil as BMW recommends but I can buy 6 pack of quarts for $28 of Mob 1 so I think I'll stick with that.

The lifters and chain tensioner use oil pressure to function. Some motors like n52 are very sensitive and require a good half hour to get the lifters working properly.

Full synthetic only on BMW motors. You can easily get 7000 miles per change. I change when the computer countdown tells me it's a very reasonable based on liter consumed formula. No chance of getting 200,000 on conventional oil.

I've used oil we took out of a car for the initial break in after replacing guides but maybe 200 miles then full change to get any engine open to the would gunk out of there.

Oil is injected onto the guides under the chain. All that matters is it's slippery and it will do its job. The different viscosity will only change the thickness of that layer a little. If it's 0.003 or 0.005" layer will make no difference.

My conclusion is the most important factor for the chain guide longevity is the main tensioner


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Okay, the service engine light came back after about 6 start cycles. Now I have a code P0340! Does this mean it was the sensor after all?

P0011 Code 2001 X5 4.4 M62 V8 -New Owner-
 

Best thing in rooting out problems is when after you've changed a part the error changes. But yes as initially suspected cam sensor is the primary suspect when anything cam timing related is involved.

It's very rare to actually see the unicorn DTC you reported, the problem is the computer trusts the reading from the sensor and usually the sensor outputs something just at end of life it's no longer and accurate value so the computer is convinced the cam is over or under advanced.

I've never seen a failed CPS error in the wild, always have to sleuth out if it's the cause.

I bought my car with SES lit and random errors having nothing to do with CPS. Google search brought me to xoutpost where somebody mentioned replace CPS and it fixed their problem and it worked for me.

Wife's car was about 15,000 miles younger and sure enough a year after my CPS needed replacing so did hers.

I would expect faikure around 4000 hours; divide your odometer by your average speed. You said an older guy was the previous owner; if he drove a lot of city miles that would make sense. (Failure at earlier if clock)


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Alright I have an update. After re-replacing the timing chain tensioner, I attempted to prime the tensioner by cranking the engine with the fuel pump relay fuse removed. Sure enough it wouldn't start.

After replacing the fuse it started and rattled briefly and returned to its quiet operation. Took her out for a 5 min spin and upon returning I was greeted by a horrible loud knocking sound at idle.

The sound seems to go away above 1.5-2k rpm and the vehicle performs normally. No codes.

I cycled the vehicle on-off about 7 times to see if any codes would appear.

So, with the rest of the thread in mind, where does this take me now? VANOS or timing guides??

See link for video of my engine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeMMedwZlyY

Ok. Found out the problem was the timing chain tensioner--it did not decompress or pump up ! This was due to my incorrect compression and use of locking ring.

The newer design tensioner has 3 grooves as opposed to just 1 and it isn't exactly intuitive which way the clip goes; I slid it up instead of down, nearly permanently locking the tensioner together! OUCH!

After reassembly it runs quiet as ever, but the question now is did I just hasten the demise of the timing guides ? That horrible racket was indeed the timing chain slapping the guides..I even drove it around the neighborhood...Makes me wonder if failure is no imminent. :(

The only way to determine is if there are bits of plastic in the oil pan. You can use a boroscope up the oil level sensor hole but you can get a fair look through the oil fill hole. If it survived the short drive it likely hasn't shortened the lifespan much.

That said were it my car I would replace the refund my tensioner with an OEM brand now that I determined it's almost certainly the actual cause of the typical failure of the guides


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Thanks guys. She runs beautifully now.