I’m thinking DME Ram Backup...
 

Ok, after weeks of troubleshooting a rough / surging idle in my 05 4.4i after completing the valve stem seals, I had all but resolved to let my Indy give it a go and then I found a thread on performing a DME Ram Backup to “reset” everything and resolve a persistent exhaust vanos issue that has been haunting me on bank 2 (2A89 dme exhaust vanos 2).

I have INPA connected and tools32 running but cannot for the life of me locate the d_motor.grp file to pull up my dme to locate that option. Seems I have only .prg files available?

What am I missing?

I’ve used it before. Let me look up my system to find it. It didn’t resolve the issue I had since it was a physical mix of sensors, but it’s always worth a shot before delving into tearing things down.

Sounds good! I noticed your post way back when when you went through nearly the same thing. Between that and my Indy’s thought that a DME Ram Backup May actually work, I thought I would give it a try before “giving up” and towing it to the shop.

I’ve had INPA running forever now, but when I hooked up to the car I got the black bubbles for battery and ignition but no options for selecting the car. Even stranger, Tools 32 loads but I don’t seem to have access to any of the .grp files to get me in to the DME...

Not sure what I’m missing, any help would define appreciated [emoji106]

I see the D_MOTOR GRP file in C:\EDIABAS\ECU folder. You should be able to see E53 by pressing SHIFT key in INPA.

I would reinstall tools32/INPA with updated one. Lots of free downloads on the web.

Awesome thanks X5only! I must be missing files, I looked in ediabas\ecu directly and was unable to find the d_motor.grp file, not sure what’s up but a reinstall may definitely fix it!

Looks like I know what I’m doing tonight! Will keep you posted [emoji106]

Thanks!


Oh, crazy question, not sure how large the .grp file is, would you be able to email me just that file to drop in my ecu folder? May try that before reinstalling with as much fun as the setup is and getting the cable to reconnect... I’ll pm you.

For anyone who can explain what "DME Ram" is, etc. I'm curious to learn more about what that means.

Back in the olden days when I would work on control systems etc., it would be common to have stuff that never changed stored in ROM. Truly fixed. Never changed. Then you'd have higher level stuff, like your control program, stored in EEPROM, for example. Then you'd have a processor that would boot using the ROM, load the EEPROM contents into its RAM, and run, using the rest of the available RAM while it's running.

The EEPROM was static unless there was an algorithm update (programming change). The RAM was volatile / dynamic / lost whenever powering down.

Do these DME systems work similarly?

Is the DME RAM really nonvolatile? And if it's volatile, is this like formatting vs. programming?

Is this DME RAM Backup actually a "reset" / "restore" or some similar word, vs. being a backup?

Is there really just one version of the DME firmware, e.g., that comes with the INPA programming software, vs. having each car having a different program based on year/month, options, etc.?

Personally, I would be very cautious about touching the firmware if that's what this is doing.

The DME in my 1985 911 has never been touched and is running fine (simpler days).

I recently, for the first time, did a very minor EEPROM programming to fix the temperature gauge in my 2001 3.0i, and was extremely cautious before making those changes. Maybe it was paranoia, but I did not want to brick my car. One particular thing that concerned me while doing that was that the 3 different examples I found all had different interstitial values between the ones that actually mattered. Never got an answer to that other than to leave them untouched, which worked.

https://xoutpost.com/1163366-post50.html

Trying to find answers to my questions above prior to posting this, I came across a guy whose eventual solution following a DME Ram reset was to strip his car for parts. Seriously.

Last summer, when I had my engine all apart, taking my sweet time with the battery disconnected for about 2 months, I had no problems at all when re-starting. I'd be more concerned about a voltage spike during the reconnection (battery spark) vs. concern for memory corruption over a period of weeks or months.

Yeah, these tools are low level accessing factory/manufacturing configurations and not consumer configurations. So if one does not know what he is doing, trashing things is easy. I’ve done ram backups so many times with no issue.

Hey oldskewel, I agree, more concern with the reconnect spike vs the sitting powered down. My Indy said it’s more like the longer it’s powered down the more likely it is to “wake up foggy” he called it. If it sits too long it can freeze, like the cmos in a pc freaks out and loses the time & date when that little battery goes dead, and you have to boot, power off and reboot to jump start the cmos, he said the dme ram backup is like that. More of writing a backup to the dme ram per say than backing up what is in the dme. My LIMITED understanding is the wording is backwards to what it actually does, again my limited understanding, is that it is really applying a backup copy of the dme “code” back to the dme so it refreshes it and it “wakes up fully”.

This shouldn’t mess with the firmware per say, this should be more of a “boot sector repair” to allow the dme to reach out to and verify all the other modules in the car and recalibrate.

All that said - I am sure someone with significantly more brain capacity than I will jump in and clear that up [emoji16]

I really don’t want to mess with my firmware, just jump start the dme.

Yeah, the danger lurking here is applying the wrong backup to your dme. The software being factory level does not offer much protection to the user in making mistakes.

Happy to report that my INPA and Tools 32 are working wonderfully now!


Sad to report that dme ram backup did not seem to make a significant difference in my situation. Car restarted after backup fine, idled for about 30 seconds nice and smooth and then lumped up and threw an SES... funny thing, I actually received more data this time - 2A89 DME Exhaust Vanos 2 \ P0024 B Camshaft Position Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance Bank 2 - I have never gotten that much detail before.


EDIT - second unusual thing, it was starting lumpy and then smoothing out, after the backup it now starts smooth and then gets lumpy.



Another strange thing happened, my power folding mirrors both work again... not real sure what happened there.

Sounds like good progress.

Can the fact that it runs perfectly for 30 seconds rule out a lot of problems? Seems like it would. For any problem you're considering, ask if it could exist and still allow things to run perfectly for 30 seconds. I bet not many problem candidates survive that test.

Could it be that VANOS oil pressure takes 30 seconds to build?

If you try to run again quickly after one run, do things go bad more quickly? If yes, maybe because pressure remains high from the previous run? If no, maybe there is a built-in clock timer that waits 30 seconds before doing the "smart" stuff.

That's what I started thinking through, I wondered if it aligned with the transition from high to low idle so I got a little braver and let it keep running as it tripped over its tongue to see if it would transition and it did!


I got 30 seconds +\- smooth idle, followed by 30 +\- seconds of lump, rough almost stalled idle and then went back to smooth and I think would have idled for as long as I let it but would completely fall on its face if I touched the accelerator.



I actually ran it up to temperature and topped off the cooling system from having the coolant hoses loose.


All that said, it definitely means something because something that was physically broken couldn't idle like it did on cold start for 30 seconds.


Not to mention to run like total crap for the following 30 seconds before leveling off into a (for all practical purposes) smooth idle that I swear I could have idled the gas out...

I am actually starting to wonder if I have something blocking that bank 2 exhaust vanos oil port causing it to not have\lose pressure.


She's scheduled for the shop on Monday, my wife wants to shoot me now for being in the garage so much, she's threatening putting a bed out there for me.

As someone with a 20 year space between kids, trust me... You are better off staying in the garage[emoji38]

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

Did you ever verify the timing? I had an M62 with similar issues and come to find out the PO had misaligned the exhaust cam one tooth when doing timing chain guides. You have several threads going so I’m not sure if you stated that.

I’ve never heard of working on the VANOS to fix a mirror issue; I learn something new every day ;)

Right! DME Ram Backup to try and fix a Vanos issue and all I get are working mirrors [emoji50]

Ha!

Timing was my first thought but following the valve stem seals I checked the timing, went in for dinner and double checked it a second time before putting the valve covers back on. It’s really strange that it will now start and run fine for 30 seconds +\- before transitioning back to a lumpy idle. What’s even more strange is that it only idles rough for 30 ish seconds or so before smoothing back out again... but even after it smooths back out I still can’t touch the accelerator pedal or it lags and wants to stall.

It’s almost like the car comes online, starts and runs and then as everything else starts up O2 sensors warm up, transitions to valvetronic, etc, etc, it just forgets how to run somewhere in that process.

I’m throwing in the towel for the most part, it’s being towed over to my Indy today/tomorrow for a second pair of eyes to look at on Monday.

I will definitely keep everyone posted on what he finds... it’s driving me insane!

I'd wager that all the shop is going to do is recheck timing. As already pointed out your issue is a classic symptom of engine timing being off - great idling but poof as soon as engine is revved. Yes, you did check the timing. The question is that did the timing tool lay completely flat on the cylinder head and did it slide over the camshafts with no hesitation/completely easily?

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ontrol/DpNVZpB

Note:
The timing is correctly adjusted when special tool 11 9 461 rests flat on the cylinder head or protrudes by up to 0.5 mm to the exhaust side.

Car doesn’t have to be at Indy until Monday. Maybe I will keep it this weekend and pull the valve covers. I’m annoyed that I have this much time in to it and can’t get it to run. If all I needed to do was pull the VCs and reset the timing I’d be pissed at myself for not doing it.

I think between the nudging on here and my own internal desire to fix this sucker myself... I have been convinced to pull the VCs and make 100% sure my timing is spot on.

Other obligations tonight, but rest assured my ass is on that tomorrow! With everything else pretty well exhausted... it just make sense.

At this point you have additional expenses to lose, so checking the timing is a great last ditch effort.

Don’t forget to set up your cot tonight and good luck!

Cot! LoL, I’m folding the seats down and sleeping in the X - maybe it will bring us closer together and she’ll decide to run for me [emoji38]

Agree totally, start spending money, or pull valve covers and be absolutely sure... wasn’t the easiest decision I’ve ever made but I think it was the right one - pull the VCs and just be sure [emoji106]

Ok, closing out this thread.


To summarize, I completed a valve stem seal replacement job on my 05 X5 4.4i using the Speed Works VSS Tool Kit (I didn't actually have to touch the cams or directly affect the timing) - it is very similar to the AGA kit and works the same way. Before the VSS job I had no driveablity issues after the VSS job I couldn't drive it at all.


I continued to receive a 2A89 DME Exhaust Vanos 2 \ P0024 B Camshaft Position-Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance Bank 2 that resulted in a poor idle and the car just flopping on its face if you even considered touching the accelerator.


Trying to diagnosis the issue I:
- swapped vanos, bank 2 intake for exhaust and exhaust for intake
- swapped vanos bank 1 to bank 2, etc
- verified vanos connectors, 12.4v batt side & 3.48v DME side
- tested vanos solenoids w 12v, all clicked
- removed and cleaned the vanos another time
- tested my coil grounds
- swapped plugs
- swapped coils
- swapped cam position sensors, exhaust for exhaust, bank 1 intake for bank 2 exhaust
- verified battery voltage
- verified alternator voltage
- changed the oil (I thought that maybe it didn't like 10w40 now that it had new valve stem seals... don't judge..., the freakin thing is more temperamental than a pregnant woman trapped in a hot elevator! - And you know it's true!
- AND... performed a DME Ram Backup


I performed a DME Ram Backup because with information from this and other forums as well as my indy I thought that it may refresh the DME and reset\release the error codes, I thought my problem was "software".



And none of it worked. So with information from the forum and my indy, I decided that it might be time to take it to the shop and concede my loses...


That said, in one final tear down to verify I had everything right, I think I may have found the cause of all of my problems!


Since I now have an X5 that won't idle and I have a direction to take, I'm going to jump back to:


X won't idel after replacing valve stem seals - receiving misfire codes.

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...ire-codes.html