I cant believe the 4.8is market can be this bad.....
 

I have a well-sorted and documented 05 4.8is with sport interior and reasonable miles (MSRP of over $74K) and I literally cannot give it away. Seems like I have it offered for cheaper than what I imagine a 4.4i with some issues would sell for... I hear stories of people being stoked that they found a broken 4.8is for $5k and the new owner acts like they won the lottery, but all I've gotten were two absolute flaky douches call me on the car. whats up with this? Anyone else have the same experience selling one of these cars? I would understand it if my particular car was riddled with issues, but I have literally addressed everything on the car.:dunno::dunno::dunno:

I’m close to closing on a 4.8. Post your listing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its through my dealership, so I dont want to violate any forum rules, but its the cheapest, clean title car in the entire country and currently on ebay for under $6k + dealer fee... Ive scoured the classifieds and a number of cars with similar mileage have been listed for the $10K area and have sold, so I'm absolutely baffled why this car hasnt sold. I had more interest when it was priced at $10K (but they were all flakes), than now that its lowered to $6k - less than I have into the car at this point after all of the repairs and maintenance I have done.

Dm me a link to the listing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

done.

Dealership is what scares most people.

Without looking at the price, I'll say that $10,000 is that sweet spot where generally most potential buyers will either pay cash outright or look for financing. If they are looking to finance and cannot secure their own, they know that financing through the dealership will substantially increase the price. Also, most banks (i.e. a potential buyer's private bank loan) will not finance something that is already pushing 14 years old or older without a very aggressive interest rate - which also dissuades buyers.


Have you tried BaT? Most all buyers on BaT are cash-in-hand types of collectors.

Yep. Most people looking for a 4.8is want documented maintenance, 2 keys, manuals, etc. Dealerships just don't have that. Checked out your Ebay ad and it looks like a decent truck, but @ 132,000 is going to need stuff, most notably suspension and cooling system. Valve stem seals are always looming. That sort of thing. Black sapphire is probably the least popular 4.8 color choice. But having sport nappa seats is a serious plus.

Your dealership doesn't have the best reviews. Warranted or not, will affect most serious buyers of a 4.8is. Especially since some of the responses do read as a little combative.

That said, it's priced right... and you sorted the air suspension so that's a huge plus. Good luck with it, hope you find a buyer. :thumbup:

That is crazy, you're right there with the 05 3.0 for the same price and the crack addict trying to get 8700 for a 4.4 with more mileage. I just bought another one, bringing my collection to a RX300, Suburban, Cayenne, and the X5, so I'm out, but seems like a good buy for $6k.

Good luck selling it, I'm just as confused as you are as to why it hasn't sold yet.

thats a ludicrous reason to not buy a car... especially when the dealership is an enthusiast-based, BMW/European Performance/repair shop. We arent talking about a fly-by-night, buy-here-pay-here lot with ford escorts and chevrolet cobalts sharing the inventory. That being said, I respect your position (and that of 4.8is buyers) and I will not be carrying anymore 4.8IS' at my dealership once these last two are sold.


Im at nearly half the "sweet spot" that you mention... I originally had it at $10K, but it didnt sell there either. Id say $6K is a pretty aggressive price.. LOL. Not interested in BAT as you have to "apply" to sell a car and give them money. :dunno:


Apparently, you didnt read the ad very carefully at all. I do have BMW service records dating back to the original In-service date of 11/30/2004. This was a CPO vehicle that was under warranty until 11/30/2012. (I have went back and put it in Caps, Bold, And Underlined it, since you didnt see that and maybe others didnt either.) Also, it DOES come with owner's manuals and the suspension was inspected and serviced. All 4 corners were replaced with Arnott units the pump was also replaced and we re-calibrated the EHC module.... My cost on a new key is $120, I will gladly throw that in and program it for the new owner. :thumbup:

In regards to internet "reviews," that's laughable as most, if not all, of the reviews were posted by individuals that never actually purchased a car from me. You're right, I do get combative when people think they can get me to accept their lowball offers by blackmailing me with the threat of online reviews or are pissed when I dont accept ridiculous offers.


Its sick... No more X5s in my inventory once these last two are sold, that's for sure.

Looks like you were offered a respectful observation and then reinforced it with your responses once again. That paired against the larger downturn of sales in the automotive industry may reveal that the problems you're experiencing have very little to do with the E53.

For an example, for more than twice your offer here, I purchased an '04 just 5 months ago from an enthusiast dealer. He hit all the right checks for feedback, pictures, records and accessories. Once all of that was done, the last thing I needed was to travel and see the car in person before I drove it home over 2 days. If your market for buyers of a nice E53 is reflected in the membership here, you can add one more who would likely not have made the trip for this one with some of the responses in reviews.

You have an opportunity to listen to the feedback you've solicited here and take action on it differently than is currently reflected by previous reviews. A little tough feedback applied ever so gently can be the key to your success not just with an E53, but more likely across any item that your hard work represents, BMW or not.

You do understand that the member made statements that were completely false in regards to the vehicle/advertisement as reasons for why the car may not have sold, right? :dunno::dunno: Call it combative if you want, but im simply responding to someone who didnt read the advertisement correctly, or in even its entirety, and then wants to cite false reasoning as to why the car is not worth asking price.

May you navigate from here any future challenges with great success including those well beyond the E53. :thumbup:

thanks for your input! :thumbup:

Let's not forget the downward price pressure exerted by the all new fourth generation BMW X5 (F95) that has just hit the market. I believe 2nd and 3rd generation are also now selling for less due to this. You can imagine the 2nd generation giving the first generation stiffer competition. The choices for buyers are much wider now.

of course, I understand depreciation due to the new models, however, it is generally less substantial to the higher-end trim, and more rare, models of the car (i.e. M3, M5, etc.), which should be the case with the 4.8is trim of the e53. Regardless, I was comparing my car and pricing to that of other E53, not comparing the values to its newer replacement counterparts. If I didnt already personally own an X5M in my collection, I would absolutely have a 4.8is. Even jsut as an objective buyer, the 4.8is in general is a hell of a deal and a very capable machine at $10K, let alone $6k.

Absolutely!

But maybe RIGHT now is NOT the time to sell........

Some BMW enthusiast/s will later realized that the E-series platform is a lot less complicated to maintain and troubleshoot.......when compared to the F and G series.

:p:


Good luck on the sale though and keep us posted here!

I said it WAS worth the asking price. But please, continue on about someone not reading. I acknowledged the recent work you put in as beneficial as well. I was simply making an observation as prop mentioned.

You have all service records. Huge plus, did miss that. So the water pump, reservoir, all hoses, crossover pipe, suspension components, VSS, alternator housing gasket have been replaced? Adding that and the mileage they were done at would be a gigantic selling point. 132k is about time for a lot of that stuff to fail.

As I said before. Good lick with the sale. I paid $15k for my 4.8is (granted 4 years ago) so people are willing to buy these things for more than $10k but they are few and far between.

I've looked at 4.8is's with your kind of mileage. Even ones with good maintenance records. At that mileage the valve stems seals are about to take a dump. If you don't do it yourself you're looking at a $5,000 repair job. On a $10,000 vehicle. Too rich for my blood. Not to mention timing chain guides. I haven't read your add, but I didn't see anyone mention if those have been done, but they're getting close as well. Another very expensive repair. As is the cooling system, including the crossover pipe. That's getting ready to go as well if it hasn't been replaced. I think that is why you're having trouble and that's why when someone finds one for $5k they think they've hit the jackpot. They have if they are able to take care of those things themselves. Good luck!

Oh no, not if there's a comparable 2nd gen 4.8i or even an xDrive50i at round about the same price, yes? :confused:

My impression is that the 2nd gen (at least earlier vintages) had a myriad of computer and mechanical issues that could go wrong, and I have always viewed the e53 as a “safe” bet relatively. Personally I won’t have an E70 in my garage without an aftermarket warranty, and would opt for a LCI version (2010), which pushes up the starting price quite a bit. Then you also have the X5M badge to consider.

It will be interesting to see if the 4.8is revives in value like the e39 M5, but from an enthusiast perspective I doubt there will be many low mileage well maintained models as the years go on, which will of course drive up the price to the right buyer. Someone needs to seed a few good auto blog posts to get the ball rolling [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, I’ll have to unsubscribe to this thread if we’re going down that path. I had a 2000 M5 I bought as a lease return in 04, drove it for 3 years then sold it to my buddy for $7k because I wanted the “better”, and newer 07 M5. FYI, biggest piece of crap I’ve ever owned. My buddy still has it, with less than 50k miles still. I’m still kicking myself for it. Just a recommendation, don’t sell cars to friends, if it’s garbage, they’ll hate you, if it’s a gem, you’ll hate yourself since you have to continually see it. At least he didn’t destroy it like my lingenfelter hummer, but that’s a different sad story.

But, sadness aside...I love my E53 4.4, and would have taken a 4.8 if the opportunity had came up before I got this one.

interesting read

i put some feelers out on my x5 the last 2 years. no one serious came and took a look. priced it at 8k, then dropped to 6500. not going lower than that. i will be driving the wheels off of before i sell it for that low, even 8k is too low considering how much time / money i got into this thing.

i'm going on about 7 years of ownership, purchased from original owner at 55k miles for 19k. im up to 172k miles, relatively low maintenance. never left me on the side of the road and i do all of my maintenance myself. only cost of ownership has been parts and purchase price. last time i checked i was into it 37k.. 19k purchase price, 18k in parts, for approx 7 years and 120k miles. roughly about $5k a year to own. still in good shape and not afraid to keep racking up the miles on it.

Another sad fact is cars are selling less and less as months go by because kids growing up these days do not buy cars anymore but rather just use ride share programs.
And as for a 15 year old vehicle... More owners are not DIY people anymore. More are "bring it to a mech for a R&R job" and that scares buyers as there is a general rumor that Bimmers are costly out of warranty (as any vehicle could, depending on repairs needed)

So it may not be the vehicle itself but the age, buyer numbers and rumor mill about repair costs


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Clockwork, it’s sad, but you’re right. I know at least a dozen people who don’t even have licenses, they just take Uber or the train to work. I live in a small island across from San Francisco, it’s only 6 miles wide, we have bike lanes everywhere and a lot of people ride bikes around town. My friend that do have licenses, and the even smaller pool that have a license AND a vehicle, take it to the shop for everything. My friend picked me up a few months ago and he had crap on his windshield, I said “man, why don’t you turn your wipers on once in a while and clean that stuff off” his reply made me laugh because I thought he was joking “yeah...I’m out of washer fluid, gotta take it in and have that refilled” after I had a good laugh I realized he was being serious.

Of course this is California San Francisco Bay Area, when I visit my brother in Michigan they NEVER say crap like that.

nail on the head Prop....

To be fair to millennials, cost of ownership is rising uncontrollably. Between taxes, insurance, fuel, and maintenance (forget modding) it costs at least $3000/yr to own anything worth driving. Corolla or civic can be cheap... But I'd rather take the bus too at that point.

So true....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...73b039aa9a.jpg

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

The good thing about owning a manual in Houston, is theft prevention.

On the news awhile back some car jackers, they were millennials, were baffled why the car would not drive.

Puwahahaha....!

To a degree yes! But low end cars haven't gotten THAT bad. Mostly driver aid stuff is what drives up COO and insurance, a bit of a balance of scales action with high volume of new tech vs cost.

To that though, the luxury segment has most definitely blown up in COO. Simple repairs are over complicated since X is attached to Y under Z inside of Q. Dam turbos.

OEM Brake job on a 540 E39? Not bad.
OEM Brake job on a 550 F10? Oh boy.

At the same time though, the 4.6/4.8 market is strangely.... empty.
Seems either A) most just keep their car since values regrettably suck (and genuinely like it or B) Dumps and long haul sales for high prices.

Collectible SUVs are out there, but it doesn't seem to have hit the E53. As most of these we driven to/past 100k. More so for the later X5M.

I literally just said"phucking wow" in public by mistake after reading this. But this is the norm for a lot of ppl

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Valid points for sure. But even simple coverage for an unmarried male under 25 years old is exorbitant. When I was 22 I had a 2001 mustang GT and paid more in insurance than the car payment. $500+/MO! For 3 years! I know that's a sports car... but before that I had a few older BMW's '83 5 series and '92 3 series and it was still expensive. A bit cheaper because those were still on my parent's policy, but I remember being glad they were paying it for me. :D When I got the mustang... they said I was responsible for insuring it. :bustingup

Not sure if the 4.6/4.8 will hit collectible status in our lifetimes. Might not even hit real enthusiast status. I can't think of an SUV that really has. :dunno:

I think I found the eBay listing. I will offer this.... this listing is not enticing at all. As someone who has bought a car on eBay previously, I want a few paragraphs telling me about the vehicle, its history, its issues, its good/bad points, etc. This listing just gives the basics along with a few pictures. Perhaps its a temporary problem, but the "big" pictures are just a big black column when I looked at it a few minutes ago.

I buy on eBay frequently and sell a little also, and IMHO, your ad isn't helping you any. I've definitely seen worse, but I've seen much better.

Lastly, Florida is probably not a great location to be selling this vehicle. We have TONS of X5's here in the Rockies. I would drive something else if I lived in FL.

AM.

AM.

^All the pictures show up for me in Firefox. It does look like a nice, clean example of a 4.8is. Problem most 4.8is buyers have is that it's at a dealer, and one that has questionable reviews. Again, I don't know them from Adam so they could be completely unwarranted. It just doesn't look great to a potential buyer of a 4.8 in particular. No "warm and fuzzies" if you will.

Couple that with the various parts/systems that like to see failures around the 132,000 listed mileage, and you get a 4.8 that sits around on the lot. That's just the current situation of the 4.8 market. 4.4's and 3.0's sell all day long at "buy here, pay here" lots because the buyers don't have options. They then get repo'd when the failures start to overwhelm the owner and they stop paying on the truck. :dunno:

One only need look at accident rates for males under 25 to understand why the insurance rates are so high. They crash cars at a ridiculous rate. Chalk it up to testosterone poisoning.

Wow I hope I don’t have too hard of a time selling my estoril blue 4.6 when I’m ready :dunno:

The clothing business is suffering the same from the rise of clothing rentals among the millennials and is worth $2 billion +. Why fill up the wardrobe with clothes you wear a few times a year when you can rent the same for a few? They're delivered right at your door and smell and feel like new but won by a few others.

WTF? I'm not wearing clothes some stranger wore. Yuck.

Agreed. :yikes:

Oh for sure, I wasn't taking the position that young men shouldn't be charged more. Just maybe not that much more. Was just illustrating the point that insuring a young driver is expensive and adds to the cost of owning/operating a vehicle. Especially a fun one.

At 28 years old I leased a civic and my insurance was more then car payment. That’s with clean record and a safety course as well as being licensed to drive since 17 years old. This just gives companies excuse to rip you off as much as they can. As far as his ad, it’s not presented well or even to the right audience on top of being sold by a dealer.

I still see a big black column on Chrome. I opened it in Edge and a lot of the info I wanted to see was there. The ad is much better than I gave credit based on how it showed up in Chrome. That brings up a separate issue, however..... is it just me or are all Chrome users missing a lot of the ad? Chrome is very popular, so if all Chrome users are seeing it the way I do, that would be a significant issue.

AM.

eBay item number:174004860959

I agree. There is a technical problem with the ad.

In Chrome on Win10, I see a giant black column instead of all the pics AND all the description.

In Microsoft Edge, I see everything just fine.

Recent data shows that 2/3 of the desktop market browsers are Chrome. Firefox and IE with 9 and 8 percent in 2nd and 3rd. Scraps after that.

I'll say the solid column of black is less appealing than the info and pics.

Took me awhile to sell my 4.8iS as well. It was well sorted, low mileage (under 78k miles), LeMans Blue color. $10k is about the market price for them. Not to mention it's a small market, most people don't know anything about these vehicles. And the ones that do, know what to look out for and know they can be money pits.

BAT seems to only accept E53 with a 3.0i trim and manual transmission. I applied to them and was denied immediately.

Stick with $10k firm pricing and just have to wait it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3rdfI28s0

You chose poorly, I on the other hand chose wisely. Have you seen the current cost for a PORSCHE 911 SC? I bought my 911SC in 1990 for 12,000.

https://ourridelife.com/2014/04/15/p...u-buy-one-now/

BAT are ... I've nothing nice to say. I know a few who have used them and it was a royal pain in the ass, then they cash in on your sale.

I've never liked BaT, well shouldn't say never. They were pretty good back before they became so popular. Was more enthusiast minded.

E53's don't qualify, but if you have something really special... BaT is the place to sell it. Manual trans wagons, e30's, and other like vehicles are bringing crazy prices. So much so that it seems they are starting to be market trend setters for those vehicles.

There's a new site that's rivaling them. My friend (who used BaT in the past) Is now using them to sell his minty Saab. It's "ahouseofcars.com". So far, so good.

I believe they will be collectible someday, that's not why I own mine, but historically its the cars you dont expect to be collectible that do become so. Especially with the recent insurgence of powerful SUVs... theres historical precedence with the 4.8is, its the fastest of the first generation of "Fast SUVs" - it is to the X5M what the M535 was to the M5. And M535i's are quite collectible now.

I would also argue the X5M is already at enthusiast status now. I drove one the other day and have to say, I was quite enthusiastic about it! ;) But seriously, there does seem to be a dedicated following to those vehicles.

Mind you, I'm under 30 so may have a different perspective than some of you guys. But I'm also a diehard BMW guy who has been in the Z3 world for 10+ years, so I've seen the zeitgeist in that community (coupes in particular) shift from that of a community on the fringe of the enthusiast world, asking "who would like these cars other than us?" to now asking "is my car worth 100K yet?"

I think whether a car becomes collectible largely rests on it's merits and it's place in the marketplace. The X5 4.8is is a truly phenomenal automobile. I've ran a BMW shop since so had the privilege of driving and working on a lot of BMWs. The 4.8is shares a spirit with the E39 M5 - it's right in that perfect sweet spot between new and old, analog and digital. New enough to be relevant, comfortable, and durable - old enough to be nice to drive, truly luxurious and encapsulating a spirit all it's own. And as I touched on earlier, it ushered in the era of super SUVs which we are still seeing grow and unfold.

Sold.

Did you really just post this without announcing what it sold for?:dunno:

Ya. How much?

The ad now fully displays on my screen using Chrome. Did you make any changes to the ad?

AM.

AM, Im sorry the narrative on the listing wasn't up to your expectations. Since it was an inventory vehicle and not my personal car, I do not have much to say about it other than the facts I listed, which to me, is fairly complete.

I listed All the factory build information with MSRP
BMW service history dating back to its original in-service date
CPO vehicle
100 detailed images
Repair/service History that we performed

I didnt know that I should also have to take the reader down some winding path of vivid imagery to get them aroused of what it is like to drive this car in order to motivate a purchase the car. Anything other than what I included in the ad would be hearsay or fluff as I am not the original owner, which I'm not going to do. If thats something you need in an ebay ad, then there are plenty other dealers out there that have a PhD in Fluff and can tell you anything you want to hear and make hollow guarantees and empty promises. I'm sorry I fell short of your expectations on a car you weren't in the market to buy anyway. Also, I am sorry to all of those that use a browser that is not supported by ebay or my listing software.


:thumbup: the buyer got a silly deal on an awesome car. Regardless as to if they become collectibles or not, once I sell my last remaining Lemans Blue on LMB M texture interior car, I will not entertain the idea of ever having another one in inventory. :bustingup

Yup. And just if I had sold a car to you, I wouldnt be broadcasting it on the internet. Some people respect the privacy of others. Asking price for the car was $5,699 + dealer fee of $375.

Curious as to why that matters to you? Each car will sell for whatever it sells for - whatever the seller is willing to let it go for and whatever the buyer is willing to spend for that particular car at that particular time. The sale on my car has no bearing on the sale of any other car. :thumbup:

no changes were done other than the removal of the ebay ad, as the car is now sold.

Wow! Sorry I offered my feedback. Have a nice life.

AM.

Mate at the outset I want to state that I have no skin in this game... however a couple of things stand out...

You've posted a discussion piece in an X5 forum, opined that you've only heard from some flaky douches and then sought comment on your experience. The members here have taken the initiative, reviewed your product and offered constructive feedback on both your advertisement and, the presence of reviews that aren't the best.

Firstly, if you resent the feedback and don't like the responses, perhaps rethink the point of your post.

Secondly, the consistent 'combative' and sarcastic tone from each of your responses suggests to me you've been dealing with the general public too long. You reach for the contemptuous reply far too easily....

Finally, congrats on the sale... it may turn out to have more than one lesson in it....

Cheers

And yet, your thread title indicates that your struggle is indicative of the whole 4.8is market.Which is it? :rolleyes:This.

The negativity surrounding this thread is only relevant to the E53 bc the OP wants it to be so. I'd offer my best again, but no community-wide Dixi cup of positive effort will draw out the Sahara Desert of negativity from the OP's own responses to his feedback request.

This was a terrible business decision made worse by person who is clearly frustrated with poor decisions about his inventory. I will offer no concern against the consideration that he's decided the problem isn't him or his inventory, it's the E53, BMW, and everyone else. :dunno: Selling cars is supposed to be easy, not hard. Why won't BMW make it easy for this businessman?:taz:

By refusing to accept his own actions rather than tantrum or take positive action on the discussion here, the OP indicates that his path eluding success begins with entropy. Entropy demands that if the OP does not change, he will go backwards. Exactly like the thread indicates is his current path.

I'd wish the best outcome of course, but I gave up on world peace as a teen.

Thank you all for your very constructive feedback.

can we all agree to remove this thread? its with obvious reasons, I feel, this thread can be removed.

I vote for the removal. Although, minimal, the space can be used for a better thread..

It could be removed, for sure. But this forum is largely self-moderated. Which works great 99% of the time. The chance a mod/admin will see and remove the thread is close to nil. Can't remember if OP can delete thread.

ahh.. well.. gave it a shot! thanks for the intel.

Jae