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-   -   Trifecta lights with no speedo & MPG gauge (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/111655-trifecta-lights-no-speedo-mpg-gauge.html)

Loperamide 03-14-2020 10:39 AM

Trifecta lights with no speedo & MPG gauge
 
2 Attachment(s)
I have changed the rear left wheel speed sensor with a brand new Pagid brand, however the trifecta lights returned after some driving.

The speedo also stops working at the same time.

What could be causing this?

ahlem 03-14-2020 07:08 PM

Was it raining? If so, could be a short in the wiring. Do you have access to a scanner that can read live data?

Loperamide 03-14-2020 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahlem (Post 1179637)
Was it raining? If so, could be a short in the wiring. Do you have access to a scanner that can read live data?

If there was a short due to water ingress, then trifecta would be on at all times would it not?

Trifecta only comes on when car has reached operating temperature.

I think the scanner I have can read live data. What am I looking out for?

Clavurion 03-14-2020 07:26 PM

ABS module. Typical internal failure.

Loperamide 03-14-2020 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clavurion (Post 1179639)
ABS module. Typical internal failure.

Would that stop the speedo working also? I don't see the link.

Clavurion 03-14-2020 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loperamide (Post 1179640)
Would that stop the speedo working also? I don't see the link.

Yes. The module internal failure is usually on the sensor wiring from the connector to circuit board. So causing similar symptoms as a broken wire between the sensor and module. A relation to heat is usually a tell tale that the fault is caused by module internal wiring.

Loperamide 03-15-2020 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clavurion (Post 1179641)
Yes. The module internal failure is usually on the sensor wiring from the connector to circuit board. So causing similar symptoms as a broken wire between the sensor and module. A relation to heat is usually a tell tale that the fault is caused by module internal wiring.

is there any way to confirm it is the module before I start throwing money at it?

Clavurion 03-15-2020 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loperamide (Post 1179656)
is there any way to confirm it is the module before I start throwing money at it?

As the symptoms the same as failed sensor or its wiring to module there is no way to test it on 100% certainty. Though you can measure the sensor line via module wiring connector to rule that out. There are instructions for this on similar threads on this forum.

andrewwynn 03-15-2020 11:29 AM

I would tap splice a different sensor that is working. Use some thermostat wire, splice in without cutting the wires just the insulation to the right side.

Use the plug from an old sensor to connect to car side.

Unplug left and right rear sensors and you can do two tests:

1) connect left wheel sensor to right car fitting.
2) connect right wheel sensor to left car fitting.

You could do one at a time or both at once.

If the speedo starts working and the computer sees the "left", indications are the problem is inside the wheel:,eg bearing tone ring.

If the problem stays on the "left" now the right wheel, indication is the wiring or the module.

When the bond wires fail in the module, the usual symptom is some intermittent problems as they touch some or most of the time then eventually a no signal in one or more wheel

Loperamide 03-15-2020 03:12 PM

6 Attachment(s)
I have attached some more pics of INPA while moving, to see if it would help anyone diagnose this more specifically, and also a short video clip of the Live Data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-VPu1zXR0M

Clavurion 03-15-2020 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loperamide (Post 1179674)
I have attached some more pics of INPA while moving, to see if it would help anyone diagnose this more specifically, and also a short video clip of the Live Data.

There's no signal from rear left sensor like suspected. Unfortunately this doesn't give us any more info. Diagnostics alone can't isolate if the sensor is dead, wiring from sensor to module broken or module internal wiring broken.

oldskewel 03-15-2020 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clavurion (Post 1179679)
There's no signal from rear left sensor like suspected. Unfortunately this doesn't give us any more info. Diagnostics alone can't isolate if the sensor is dead, wiring from sensor to module broken or module internal wiring broken.

yes. Also, this is the replacement Left Rear sensor, right? Since putting this one in, it caused even more problems, right?

Is it possible to swap sensors / connectors left to right to see if the live data + error code moves with it?

Loperamide 03-15-2020 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskewel (Post 1179685)
yes. Also, this is the replacement Left Rear sensor, right? Since putting this one in, it caused even more problems, right?

Is it possible to swap sensors / connectors left to right to see if the live data + error code moves with it?

Yes it is the new replacement sensor, but it did not cause even more problems. Same problem as before I replaced.

I will try to swap them over next weekend when im off work.

andrewwynn 03-16-2020 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskewel (Post 1179685)
yes. Also, this is the replacement Left Rear sensor, right? Since putting this one in, it caused even more problems, right?



Is it possible to swap sensors / connectors left to right to see if the live data + error code moves with it?



Rear sensor is the same. I would put right to left and old left info right (very good chance that part is not defective). I would use one of the old sensors to make a jumper thar can cross wire left wiring into right wheel & vice versa.

Loperamide 03-16-2020 04:24 AM

One thing i forgot to mention is the MPG gauge on the cluster also stops working at the same time, however the tachometer, fuel gauge and temp gauge continue to work. Does this help anyone with the diagnosis?

Clavurion 03-16-2020 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loperamide (Post 1179702)
One thing i forgot to mention is the MPG gauge on the cluster also stops working at the same time, however the tachometer, fuel gauge and temp gauge continue to work. Does this help anyone with the diagnosis?

Same old. You need speed signal to calculate MPG.

upallnight 03-16-2020 10:10 AM

https://xoutpost.com/attachments/x5-...315_134556.jpg
There's your problem. The left rear wheel speed sensor isn't reporting the speed of the wheel. Check to see if the wheel is still attached to the truck.

EODguy 03-16-2020 12:14 PM

The mpg gauge on mine did the same and it was a freaking short hitting the metal bar under the dash, caused by me rooting around looking for a switched power during installation of my stereo... don't know if that helps and if there's a point behind the cluster that would have a short that also knocks out the speed sensor [emoji848][emoji1696]

Maybe someone knows... Bueller, Bueller?

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

Purplecty 03-18-2020 09:43 PM

It could be the sensor as oem simenens VDO sensors are the only ones I would use...

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...do-34526756380

upallnight 03-18-2020 09:51 PM

Anytime I had to replace the wheel sensor the plastic connector from the harness to the new sensor had to be replaced also. The wire had to be in the correct location on the new connector, you can't have them switch around. If you replaced the plastic connector did you put the wire back in the correct location? You had a 50-50 chance of getting it right.

upallnight 03-18-2020 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purplecty (Post 1179767)
It could be the sensor as oem simenens VDO sensors are the only ones I would use...

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...do-34526756380

I used the wheel sensor from O'Reilley and they work perfectly.

Purplecty 03-18-2020 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1179770)
I used the wheel sensor from O'Reilley and they work perfectly.

Interesting! Coming from the e38 world thay uses the DSC57 as well, I had bad luck with aftermarket ABS sensors. Good to know...

ahlem 03-19-2020 04:58 AM

On various models I have owned, it was always a good idea to clean the crud off the pulse ring or pick up surface through the sensor hole with a popsicle stick and Emory cloth. I've noticed rust, grease, dirt and iron filings in there. Anything conductive can disrupt the signal.

Clavurion 03-19-2020 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahlem (Post 1179775)
On various models I have owned, it was always a good idea to clean the crud off the pulse ring or pick up surface through the sensor hole with a popsicle stick and Emory cloth. I've noticed rust, grease, dirt and iron filings in there. Anything conductive can disrupt the signal.

As it's on the rear seal of bearing I wouldn't use anything but brake cleaner and compressed air.

TriX5 03-19-2020 09:47 AM

Had the same symptoms with my ABS module and, before putting the engine back in the car, had mine out and sent it to a company in Florida for fixing. They can either fix yours (I did this) or send you one and you send yours back as a core replacement.

Loperamide 03-19-2020 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1179768)
Anytime I had to replace the wheel sensor the plastic connector from the harness to the new sensor had to be replaced also. The wire had to be in the correct location on the new connector, you can't have them switch around. If you replaced the plastic connector did you put the wire back in the correct location? You had a 50-50 chance of getting it right.

I did NOT have to replace the connector.

Loperamide 03-19-2020 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriX5 (Post 1179784)
Had the same symptoms with my ABS module and, before putting the engine back in the car, had mine out and sent it to a company in Florida for fixing. They can either fix yours (I did this) or send you one and you send yours back as a core replacement.

One small problem....I'm in the UK.

Loperamide 03-19-2020 04:06 PM

One thing I have noticed is, the trifecta come on when im at a stand still and not moving.

Clavurion 03-19-2020 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loperamide (Post 1179805)
One thing I have noticed is, the trifecta come on when im at a stand still and not moving.

Not a sure sign for anything but like I said earlier could point to problem on module internal wiring when the module warms up.

Purplecty 03-19-2020 04:12 PM

Swap the rear sensors side to side and see if you get a signal to rule them out...

Loperamide 03-19-2020 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purplecty (Post 1179807)
Swap the rear sensors side to side and see if you get a signal to rule them out...

Plan on doing this over weekend.

StephenVA 03-20-2020 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clavurion (Post 1179806)
Not a sure sign for anything but like I said earlier could point to problem on module internal wiring when the module warms up.

Since we are internet guessing, I will add that the "ABS light turns on while stopped at light" usually points to ABS module circuit failure. I have use these guys with great results:
BBA Remanufacturing Inc
300 Myles Standish Blvd
Taunton, MA 02780
United States
1 508 822 4490
Fax 1 508 822 4491
[email protected]
Home (GB) | BBA Reman

3 day turn around via FEDEX.

The UK has to have someone also who does these types of repairs.

Clavurion 03-20-2020 07:45 PM

ACTronics factory refurbished units also available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxumtQskqTY&t=11s

Loperamide 03-21-2020 10:10 AM

i have an update for you all.

I swapped both rear and left sensors around. and the trifecta still comes on saying the rear left sensor???

Purplecty 03-21-2020 10:15 AM

So it can either be wiring, a bad ABS module or the pick up ring in the wheel bearing. I would start with what doesn't cost you and check the wiring from the harness side. BBA reman does ABS repairs for around $100 using their eBay sales if they still even offer it there...

andrewwynn 03-21-2020 10:20 AM

So this means the sensor is ok and the problem is in the wiring or inside the module. You can find the pin out of the module connector and use ohmmeter to test continuity to ensure no broken wires or you make a cross-car jumper so you can connect the left side wiring to the right side sensor.

You actually can probably skip that step because the error you are getting is not a flaky signal you are getting a no signal error.

Do you start with no lights and they come on after some time ? The internal fault with the module is often affected by heat and vibration and will have the abs work on and off

Loperamide 03-21-2020 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewwynn (Post 1179875)
So this means the sensor is ok and the problem is in the wiring or inside the module. You can find the pin out of the module connector and use ohmmeter to test continuity to ensure no broken wires or you make a cross-car jumper so you can connect the left side wiring to the right side sensor.

You actually can probably skip that step because the error you are getting is not a flaky signal you are getting a no signal error.

Do you start with no lights and they come on after some time ? The internal fault with the module is often affected by heat and vibration and will have the abs work on and off

YES! first thing in the morning all is ok...and then when car reaches operating temp, and while i'm at a stand still, the lights will come on.

If i turn the car off for 10-20 mins, and turn it back on, the lights disappear, and then come back on after a while.

Loperamide 03-21-2020 10:44 AM

One other thing I wanted to ask was, do these sensors affect when the transmission shifts gears?

I was driving today around 40mph, and the transmission would not shift up and the rev counter was around 4000 rpm, and then suddenly it shifted up 2 gears at once. Did this a couple of times actually. This was AFTER i swapped the sensors around so curious if they control the gear shifting in any way?

upallnight 03-21-2020 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loperamide (Post 1179877)
One other thing I wanted to ask was, do these sensors affect when the transmission shifts gears?

I was driving today around 40mph, and the transmission would not shift up and the rev counter was around 4000 rpm, and then suddenly it shifted up 2 gears at once. Did this a couple of times actually. This was AFTER i swapped the sensors around so curious if they control the gear shifting in any way?

There are speed sensors inside the trans. The wheel sensors are mainly for DSC and ABS along with MPH.

Clavurion 03-21-2020 01:51 PM

DME (engine ECU) gets vehicle speed signal from rear right ABS sensor.

Loperamide 03-21-2020 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clavurion (Post 1179884)
DME (engine ECU) gets vehicle speed signal from rear right ABS sensor.

Vehicle speed is rear left which is why my speedo stops working same time as rear left wheel speed sensor trifecta error.

I believe cruise control is controlled by the rear right sensor?

Clavurion 03-21-2020 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loperamide (Post 1179885)
Vehicle speed is rear left which is why my speedo stops working same time as rear left wheel speed sensor trifecta error.

I believe cruise control is controlled by the rear right sensor?

OK, I should have not confused you with that previous post. Yes, cruise is controlled by DME and affected by rear right sensor.


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