Brake bleeding solved with Ista-D
 

2006 E53 4.4
If you ever get air in the ABS, seems impossible to remove without bmw software. I managed to get ista-D installed. Once connected, the correct function is under "vehicle management/service functions/Chassis/DSC8/brake bleeding routine/" then on right select "ABL Brake Bleeding Procedure". Then click "continue" and it will activate the ABS pump and cycle through the values. I did the passenger-rear first and tons of air came out the first time using the software. So much air I though the reservoir was dry. I was using a homemade pressure bleeder on the reservoir at ~5 to 10psi. pressure is essential. after running the routine with the bleeder open, pump the brake to the floor 5 times to clear the air. make sure bubble free and then close the bleeder valve. move to the next line.


At first I tried "vehicle information/control unit tree/DSC" and the "call up ECU functions", then "activate pump" or something like that. This option does turn the pump on for 5 seconds, but it does not seem to cycle through valves. I tried this way 2 times and the pedal was still mushy. The correct approach is through the "service function" menu, which makes sense.

Some images from ISTA:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Tuzn3MPcjVdkgtCB7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RaZTe613UrtmNyRj8


From the software:

Primary circuit: In the DSC hydraulic control unit, air bubbles can adhere to the edges and valves, and these cannot be removed by rinsing with the brake fluid change unit. The vibrations that occur during ventilation with the diagnosis system loosen the air bubbles.

Secondary circuit: Under normal conditions (DSC does not intervene), the secondary circuit of the DSC hydraulic control unit is closed, so that the air it contains cannot escape when rinsing with the brake fluid change unit. When bleeding with the diagnosis system, the return pump and the exhaust and high-pressure switching valves are activated during rinsing so that the secondary circuit is also bled.

After the exchange and repair of the following components, bleeding must be done with the diagnosis system:
- Hydraulic unit

- Master Brake Cylinder

- Components or connection lines that are located between the hydraulic unit and tandem brake master cylinder


Operations:
For the DSC8, the operations 3 ... 7 must be performed in the order rear right, rear left, front right and front left.

For the DSC Mk60 the operations are specified explicitly in the test module.

1. Connect the brake fluid-change unit and switch on (the filling pressure must not exceed 2 bar)

2. Fully rinse the brake system

3. Attach the bleeder container to the vent valve

4. Open vent valve

5. Start bleeding with the diagnosis system with open vent valve

6. After completing the bleeding, operate the brake pedal 5 times to the limit position; bubble-free brake fluid must escape

7. Close vent valve

8. Remove the brake fluid change unit

Note:
A second person is required for this task

Thanks for coming to this forum and posting this info. Most of the time a newbie only comes here looking for answers to their problems.

:thumbup:

Do you think a second person will be required if you used a power bleeder like Motiv?

My read is to pump the brakes and watch for bubbles is the point of a second person.

I don't think a second person is needed you can pump the brakes to push air out of the master cylinder then the motiv will push the bubbles out of the line.

You can activate the two needed processes (abs pump, abs valves) with foxwell this procedure is good to know the order.

If you have a pressure bleeder and you have a safe way to catch the fluid, then you can do by yourself. If you run the service function and hear the abs pumping you can get quickly back to the bleeder and see if fluid/air is coming out. With the pressure bleeder on there was still pretty decent flow coming out even without abs activated and you can verify no bubbles after you activate the abs. I pumped about half a reservoir amount of fluid through each line and ran the abs/bleed routine multiple times while the line was open. probably overkill but I wanted to make sure there were no more bubbles. I left the pressure bleeder on until the bleeder valve was closed. pedal firm like it's supposed to be.

pretty sure all the air in the ABS came out on the first line once I was doing the proper bleed routine

The RR seems to be the longest and hardest to bleed out properly without getting the ABS cycled. Each line is separate from the ABS unit to each corner so you do have to bleed each corner and cycle the ABS unit each time.

Congrats to each and every one who does the bleed out properly as it is really the only way to get all the old fluid out and to ensure no air bubbles are left. A firm pedal is your reward!

For us Manual owners, the clutch line should be bled as well.

Hi All,

I'm having major issues trying to bleed DSC, since having to repair a damaged line between the DSC block and Master Cylinder. Car has now been off road for 4 months whilst I've gone through different versions of INPA, and now ISTA trying to get this bleed process to activate.

On INPA, I can get to the screen where the button for the the bleed it, and the button simply doesn't appear.

Now on ISTA, I'm getting to the exact same screen that Maxi840i is getting to on the second linked screenshot above - but there is no way to proceed from here?

https://i.imgur.com/9rkJVcc.png

Clicking on ABL gives nothing. I can add to test, but seems now way to execute even when in the list?

Clicking on FUB, displays the instruction for the procedure itself, but again there is no button to continue, or execute the procedure from here.

Same procedure is described at 2:10 of this youtube video, so I can only wonder why in both ISTA and INPA now i am unable to activate the DSC to bleed it!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Xs...nel=FaRKle0079

PS - there are no BMW dealers or indies anywhere near me - I live on a tiny islands population 4000, otherwise I would have sent this to a shop by now!!

Boma ....Which year and model do you have ? I believe the process may be different for the early cars, using DSC5.7 and later cars using DXC8 ?

The OP has a later E53..using DXC8..

No, but there are apparently decent European car specialists in Tortola and elsewhere in BVI...any decent tech with an Autel or similar scanner can activate your ABS ... I just had a local general tech near me bleed my brakes with his scanner.

I bought a foxwell nt-510 for such operations. I was not interested in the hodge podge of 30 yr old software on a 20 yr old operating system.

I ordered a Foxwell 510 scanner yesterday to replace my 520. It seems the software on the 520 is either missing functions in the 510...or are so hidden I cannot find them. So, I will use the 520 for the other cars and the 510 for the E53. :)

Does the Foxwell have what you need to bleed brakes?

It's a 2007 E83 X3 2.5Si, a JDM import (actually an EU spec car as that's what was shipped to JDM markets). All software recognises it as the DXC8. I know I should be in the X3 forum but this thread showed exact same procedure and same screens in ISTA.


I have been looking at the Foxwell NT510, 520 and I think the latest is the 530 for BMW - however, there seems to be a mixed bag of reviews on them. It will be annoying if I have to, as already have 2 decent Autel scanners (which can't do BMW), and getting hacked off if I have to buy another!

My concern is that I've now got 2 different versions of INPA and one version of ISTA working (both VMs and straight live instals on W10x64), and all of them seem to otherwise work fine, and can talk to the vehicle for everything else, except to activate the ***** DSC bleed procedure!

So can't help wondering if there is something unique to my car that would also stop the Foxwell from working!



Effduration, even the big shop mechanics in the BVI have a somewhat chequered reputation - I know of several much newer and more expensive BMWs all laid up because no one can deal with them. I do all my own auto work (except where ramps or special tools needed), and work in IT, so am a little worried that if I can't get this sorted, will just end up with a big bill for someone else to hand it back to me.

There are two big auto dealers who I would consider, one is Mercedes/Mazda/Suzuki/Jeep main dealer, and the other is VW/Ford, but neither specialise in BMW. Both of them are a $130 barge ride away from VG to Tortola, before even looking at it (driving there with just a handbrake), or possibly paying $600/day each way for it to go on a transporter. I may give one of them a call very soon anyway, as car can't be used as is, and wife is getting pretty unhappy.


Sadly this will be the last BMW we own whilst living in the Islands, as when even simple jobs like replacing lines have become a PITA needing specialist software, then I can't afford the risk of things going wrong, and this car is at the mileage 118k and age where all the gaskets are next inline (valve cover already gone), and this generation seems to have made everything 10 times more complicated and involved to work on.

Just put new shocks and springs on immediately before this, and took me longer to get through the rear trunk plastic trims than it did to actually fit the hardware itself!

And as for the design of the ABS - Master brake line that failed, well the less said about the idiocy of that design, the better! *rant over*

Is there really not a BMW dealer in the entire virgin islands? That seems crazy. Not even an indie mechanic who can take care of you?



Maybe this is my chance to live in the virgin islands. I could give up the day job and be the local BMW indie. Wonder if the wife would go for it.

Brake bleeding solved with Ista-D
 

Absolutely.

Not aware of any needed maintenance task it can't do. It can't code much (though you can edit idle speed).

My think diag let me code my new key function though (so all doors unlock). Foxwell can't do that.

The only difference I saw was the loss of the reset button and the 520 can add Mercedes.

It can be maddening to try to find a module. Do an auto scan to try to learn what to look for.

Even after I've used a module I'll forget where the hell it was located. Eg trying to find where to look for engaging the AC compressor. The are 2-3 different locations.

[mention]boma23 [/mention]

Get yourself a foxwell. nt-510 or 520. You will be able to work on almost any BMW maybe even resolve the problems on those newer ones mentioned.

Redneck cure in the meantime: you can get abs bled by getting it to activate. Might be difficult if too much air you can't get the brakes to function at all but you can bleed the lines by cracking the fittings on the ends.

Then what people have done is find some sand and do some hard braking to get abs to kick on and then some fast braking (hit pedal hard) to get Emergency braking to activate. It won't be perfect but you might get useful if spongy brakes while waiting.

I help maintain a dozen or so cars including a handful of BMW and there foxwell or my think diag have always been able to access the needed function over the past six years or so.

You need a work permit so would need to strike up a deal with a "belonger", in order to get int to the territory - I can put you in touch with the owner of International Motors though - the big Suzuki/Mazda/Jeep/Mercedes dealer!

I'd be the first to buy you a cocktail on the beach :)

hey Andrewwynn, thanks for tip. Any knowledge on whether the latest NT530 is the one to go for, which is one i was looking at mostly?

I've already bled through all 4 lines and all have fresh fluid coming out all corners. It was only when the pedal still kept hitting the floor after this that I discovered that this DSC bleed was also needed....

The pedal will pump up enough with successive pumps that I can get some momentary brake pressure, but not so much that I can activate the ABS on tarmac - but will definitely hop out to a nearby sandy car park and give this a go later after work!

I am a bit scared of hammering the pedal to the floor though, as keep hearing about people scoring the cylinder at the unused end of travel, and losing pressure.

also just adding the screenshots from my copy of ISTA.

You can see there is no way to progress from the screens themselves:

https://imgur.com/a/Pf9aLWA

https://imgur.com/a/02thOlm

Foxwell NT510 Elite vs. NT 530
 

I was considering the 530, but I saw a comparison on the Foxwell site, and opted for the 510. I won't ever need to scan Australian cars, nor anything other than my GM cars and the X5. I bought my 510 with GM programming installed, but added the BMW programming later, when I finally acquired mine.
https://www.foxwellstore.com/service...waAp1qEALw_wcB

Where I live you often have the option of pouring out some water to get an ice patch.

Since I'm doubting that will work for you; soapy water will work maybe better than sand. Especially if you have painted road stripes or a metal manhole etc.

I've seen feedback of problems with the 530 mostly with the software and malware and haven't seen positive feedback to correct the issues so why I've still only recommended the 510/520.

510 has actual buttons but they actually can stick down. The 520 has dimple pad for controls. A little more grime resistant.

thanks again all - nice idea on the soapy water - can probably find some plastic sheeting too.

I also saw the reports of malware infections. Maybe I try a local community FB post first in case someone has one I can borrow and check it works before shelling out.

Stay away from the NT-530 as it isn't as functional as the NT-510 (I have the NT-510) Mine is loaded with BMW, Mercedes and Mini cooper and if it doesn't find the fault it is good enough to let you make one....[emoji1787]

Search for my Zamboni adventure with a big time pregnant wife and the hospital trip...[emoji28]

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Yep it sure can.

So the procedure says to, pump the brakes while pressure bleeder is attached, to help flush out the extra air? Wouldn't air get INTO the system once you are pressing the brake pedal adn then letting it go? OR does the 10psi from the brake bleeder overpower the desire for air to enter into the open bleeder nipple/vent valve?

PS: I should be Mike850i as my handle (assuming you too own an e31?)

Pressure bleeder has a bottle that replaces every bit of volume let in with fresh brake fluid.


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So in the end I also found this Autophix 7910 unit - lots of comparison sites suggest has exactly same functionality as the Foxwell NT510Elite (with regard to ABS and DSC anyway), and it's a good deal cheaper.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A1RFLOVEKXU4JR

Will feedback on how it goes when it arrives.

About time I fed back!

Great little tool - as shipped, the Autophix 7910 unit told me "vehicle not supported".

I tried updating via the website - no joy though.

I then found the "reporting" feature - you can basically tell the unit to start logging, and then try and fail to perorm a funciton (DSC bleed). you then upload to a PC (copy a file directory across via USB), then send this to the website support address.

They sent me back a new upgrade file the very next day, and bingo - DSC was activating!!

Superb service, and great little tool for the $130 or thereabouts!

That is some very good feedback


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