AUX fan woes
 

Hey guys

I have quick AUX fan question.

So the aux fan in my '06 3.0D is not spinning when the AC is on or when the coolant hits 85c. However I dont think it is the fan itself, as it DOES spin half a turn when the car is started.

So i figured I would call on the vast wealth of knowledge and experience here before wasting hours chasing the issue. given the symptoms, what would be the most common cause of the fan not running when it is supposed to, even though it has power and does spin when the car is started?

Sounds like you need to replace the fan. Here's my DIY guide to get you going:

https://youtu.be/N_K0KPHsteA

Thanks for the link.

I would have thought the fan itself would be ruled out, as it is spinning momentarily on start up as it is supposed to...just not under other conditions?

Foxwell scanner will run the aux fan and I've heard you can force it to spin by unplugging the AC pressure sensor.

It's pwm controlled so you can't run it by applying power.

The part spin at start convinces the computer it's ok even if it's not.

It has to spin more than a half turn in order for it to generate an electrical signal to the DME to know that the fan is spinning. Scan the DME and see if you have a fan fault.

Engine coolant goes near 100 C before it activates the fan. Like suggested test the fan first with diagnostics by activating it via DDE.

I'm not so sure about that. I only thought it turned maybe 1/6 to 1/4 of a turn for its self test I'm going to look a little closer it's hard to do yourself.

NOPE

If you remember your basic electricity, a dc motor free spinning becomes a dc generator. The electrical signal generated by this spinning is sent back to DME. The DME recognize this electrical signal and log the fan as good. If the DME don't see this electrical signal it log a bad fan fault code.

Oh of course I remember motor/generator lessons but ANY motion will create voltage. I was pretty sure I saw only like 1/4 of a turn in the past butt I'm usually not in front of the car to see when the car is started.

A motor has to spin fast enough to create a voltage so the motor must spin for quite some tme and then free spin to create the electrical signal. Spinning only a 1/2 turn will not create an electtrical signal that will be recognize by the DME.

If he could unclip the front grille in front of the fan I would do that and see if the fan spin freely by hand. Could be the fan bearings are shot.

I just started troubleshooting a similar sounding problem on my 2001 3.0i. I don't want to confuse things in this thread, so first a question - how relevant are things on the OP's 2006 3.0d to my 2001 3.0i?

My symptoms are almost exactly the same as the OP. Spent some time yesterday troubleshooting things for the first time.

AC principles are the same no matter if it is a gasoline X5 or a diesel X5.

@UPGrayd, from electrical measurements, taking things apart, etc., and with very similar symptoms to yours, I have almost certainly concluded that my fan motor is bad.

The key thing that is confusing your and my situations is that even with a failed motor (failed in that it will not spin when properly commanded to spin by the ECU), it will still bump a little sometimes upon startup.

My measurements and Foxwell active testing all seem to confirm that everything is working other than that the fan actually spins. I don't get any codes, warning messages, lights, etc. It just does not spin.

Also surprising is that even after failing to spin at the startup, it will continue to be commanded correctly during further operation. Why do the bump-and-spindown test, get a failure result, and then (1) don't report or silently log the failure, and (2) continue to command the fan to spin as if it had passed? But that's what it appears to do.

I can't find any info on the diesels, but I did confirm that ALL non-diesel E53s now use the same fan. 3.0i, all the way up to 4.8is.

From realoem:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=64_1087

BMW PN for the full assembly: 64546921381, which supersedes:
64546921940 (11/12/2001 — 08/16/2004)
64546919051 (06/01/2001 — 10/31/2001)
64506908124 (12/01/1999 — 06/20/2001)
64548380573 (10/01/1999 — 03/17/2000)
There was a recall back in the day, and the ...381 was installed when doing the recall service.

I think I fit the category of the aux fan being non-essential, but plan to replace it when convenient.

AUX fan woes
 

just to add confusion I just did two starts in a row and nothing; no spin at all and my fan works fine. It was not a coldstart so maybe just on a coldstart it does the fan bump.

Interesting result. Very helpful. Thanks. Not completely surprised. This subsystem seems more complex than people give it credit for.

From reading many sources on the interwebs, I'm seeing that there are some things in the way they control this that can lead to oversimplification and confusing reports / conclusions. E.g., as you are noticing, maybe the test spin on startup is temperature dependent somehow ???

If you are feeling adventurous and curious, here are a couple of specific observations I made about my car, that you might like to duplicate. I believe my fan motor has failed, and is the only failure. I measure the ECU command signal on the thin wire, just using my True RMS meter, measuring DC voltage. It seems good enough for debugging, giving me an integrated average signal that refelects the duty cycle of the square wave the ECU is sending to the controller.

Engine idling, AC off, car and ambient fairly cold (closer to 70F than 100F).

(1) Turn AC on. The fan will immediately spin, but not too fast, gradually increasing a little. Mine sat like that for a minute or two before I ended the test. My fan was not moving at all (maybe a bump on the initial AC on), but so my result is based on watching the control voltage drop (lower duty cycle means faster spin). I expect that as the temperature of everything increased, the fan would spin faster.

(2) AC off. Disconnect the connector to the temp sensor on the lower radiator hose. Put a 100 Ohm resistor in there across the connector. According to the Foxwell live data, this resistance value makes the ECU think the temp there is 241F (hot). The fan control voltage values indicate that over a period of about 30 seconds, the fan speed ramps up to almost full speed. Interesting how it was an immediate initial response, but then a gradual build up in speed. So the ECU is making full use of the variable speed control, and fairly complex logic in deciding how to spin the fan. Also, there were no effects or notifications anywhere on the instrument panel (mine is high cluster) about this high temp.

(3) Foxwell active test makes it run at the highest speed (lowest control voltage as I measured = 1.6V [average voltage on a pulse width modulated duty cycle of a ~14V square wave]), instantly jumping to that and holding steady for 20 seconds. This test does not require the engine to be running.

Sorry I havnt been back to check on the thread in a few days. I have had a bit going on. The first thing I did when I noticed the fan not behaving as it should was pull the cover off and check it spins freely, It does spin freely and there is no play in the bearing.

I have ordered the cable I need to test it though. I guess I just have to wait until that arrives. While I was hoping to not have to buy one, I plan on keeping the X for quite a while, so either way its an investment.

You need BMW level scan tool, I'm assuming you mean a cable to hook up BMW scan software, that will help you immensely.

Yes, the appropriate cable to use with INPA

Make sure the appropriate pins are jumpered to access all modules.


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I will, as that was an issue I came across when trying to figure out a 4x4 warning using a friends cable a while back...I couldnt exactly pull his apart and start soldering pins together though....The one I've ordered apparently has a switch on it for that though.

Why do owners come on this forum and ask for DIY advice but are too cheap to buy the equipment to DIY? I have various scanners for the cars that I owned or work on for family. I have a Honda Specific scanner for the my daughter Honda, Toyota software and cable for the Soccer mom minivan and when I owned a BMW I had carsoft 6.5 and later BMW Scanner 1.4. I have a scanner for when I owned an Audi. The only cars I don't have a scanner for is the 911 PORSCHE and the Lotus.

Cool story, Its not a matter of too cheap. I own a fleet of cabs, do 90% of the required work on them myself...Pay for a legitimate toyota TIS professional diognostic subscription to have access to digital tools I need for them, Its also far from being a case of being unwilling to acquire the appropriate tools....

but we are also in the middle of a pandemic that is causing pandemonium with logistics and stocking. I have had things that should be overnighted from a city 4 hours drive away take over a month to arrive....So, Having not needed one up until this point, as stated I was hoping getting my hands on one was not the only way to diagnose a fan issue...I was hoping someone with a more intimate understanding of the X's fan control systems would have a simple "oh yeah, just unplug this...or just bridge that, and the fan will run if its not shagged" instead of potentially waiting weeks just to be able to diagnose it, then weeks again for the correct part to arrive after figuring out what it needs.

In short...sorry for asking a fucking question...your highness.

If you see my post a few above, with the 1, 2, 3 tests I ran on mine, you should be able to definitely run 2 (AC on). If you can find a 100 Ohm resistor, you can do 1. Not 3, since that needs the Foxwell.

And I'll be even more direct than I was in my previous posts here ... Don't believe what you read or see on the intertubes on this. It IS more complex than most think.

If you've got a True RMS voltmeter, you can measure voltage on the control wire.

In my case, doing all the above and a few more allowed me to become fully convinced that the power and signal going to the fan all made sense, and were there. So with the fan not spinning, it only remains to swap in a new fan.

For a still unknown reason, my PA Soft BMW Scanner 1.4 did not run this time. I was going to try installing it from scratch on a different laptop, but at this point, I don't think it would tell me anything new.

And in defense of @upallnight, in exchange for the occasional rough comment like that, he has probably the highest batting average on here for tough problems. I'll take that over friendly wrong answers any day.

Good luck getting this solved.

UPGrayd, a couple of the members here can be annoying for sure but most of us are happy to help fellow X5 enthusiasts any way we can. Just shrug them off.

If I ever doubt my fan is operational, I simply unplug the AC pressure switch shown below with engine running and AC on and the fan will run full song after 5 seconds. This will at least let you know you have an operating fan but may not diagnose your DME controlling it dependant on engine temp. For that you need the cable you have ordered and a copy of INPA installed on a PC. My guess you have a fan out or going out and the quick AC pressure switch test will let you know. Mine is a 3.0L M54 model but I would guess your diesel M57 would have the same AC pressure switch. :dunno:

You're the one that embellish your story with the comment that you were hoping not to have to buy the cable. I just pointed out that fact. If you look at my postings count I'm one of the more active member on this board. I have helped many X5 owner through this board as well as in person. At the very end you go and drop the F bomb. Well add me to the list of people to ignore your posts.

Oh and by the way have a G'Day mate. Don't need to put anything on the barbie for me.

Thanks Oldskewel, for the friendly testimonial.

:thumbup:

Yep, OB, there is an A/C pressure switch in the exact same location on the M57 diesel. Not sure if it has the same "test feature" in the M57 DDE (vs the M54 DME) since I have (and use) INPA to test the aux fan.

Worth a crack though! :thumbup:

Nice to have more info.
My 2001 3.0i looks just like yours, but nowhere near as clean.
I just ran that test on mine, measuring the fan control signal as I have been doing, and confirm it works as you say. :thumbup:

So yes, that is a very easy test. Maybe THE easiest, as long as you know your AC works.

Just turning the AC on should make the fan spin, even if very slowly. Disconnecting that plug should ramp it up to almost full speed within a few seconds.

Specifics on the testing I did:

AC Pressure, as measured in Foxwell (units = Volts):
engine cold, about 70*F ambient.
Ignition ON, engine stopped, AC off, cold: 1.25V
... connector removed: 5.00V
Engine running: 1.24V
Engine running, AC on: 1.76V, rising
... connector removed: 5.00V

When the AC was turned on, the fan control signal dropped to 12 .. 11V, as before.
When the AC pressure sensor connector was removed, it very quickly ramped down, at about one Volt per second, ending at about 2.0V, which should be almost top speed for the fan.

That’s some very helpful information oldskewel


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Thank you mate, My apologies I did miss that reply.

I definitely have no fan with A/C on (the ac going warm when sitting at a set of traffic lights momentarily is what actually drew my attention to the fan in the first place).

I am dealing with a death in the family at the moment, but over the weekend I will try to get my hands on a 100 Ohm resistor and see what I come up with.

Thank you for that info mate. 100% what I needed....I'll give it a run as soon as I get a chance to play with it.

Re: upallnights comment...look I usually shrug that kind of childish passive aggressive bullshit off, but at the moment I'm dealing with a death in the family and I guess just really not in the mood to put up with people slinging shit for no reason other than just to make a dick of themselves or inflate their ego...or whatever he gains from attacking someone completely unprovoked like that.....I mean so I don't have a cable that I haven't needed, for a car I haven't owned for all that long in the scheme of things, and ordered one the moment it became apparent that I was actually going to *need* it...that's the way these things work....you don't have something...until you need it...then you get it...right?

I mean real great reason to come at me...because I haven't needed something, and I'm hoping to not have to wait what could potentially be weeks for it to arrive before figuring out what should be a relatively simple issue.

I got by ok with just an OBD dongle and my phone to read generic codes and reset SES for a couple years, including diagnosis of bad cam sensor and non working AC, but eventually a bmw level scanning solution is needed however, for that to be "expected knowledge" with 30 posts in, well let's just say an experienced poster should know to feel out a newbie for their capabilities before pre judging them.

You were more than correct to guess there might be a usual workaround that can help diagnose the problem without the need of "the cable" ( and the shit sandwich 30 yr old software that goes with it ). (often only in German, barely runs in xp, as sketchy as it comes). Oh and I've gotten by without using a craptop+cable solution as well. I use and recommend a foxwell 5xx series. Also crappy user inteefae and slow as molasses but it'll scan and test most of the cars systems and is way better than lugging an old craptop to the car it fits in the glove box and will do active tests like engage the aux fan directly. (or roll up/down a window to determine if just a switch is failed. It will also show you the status of any switch etc. Recently I used to re-sync a steering angle sensor after and abs module was removed and replaced.

I also do recommend having a WiFi OBD dongle. I've had a few different ones but my latest one is also foxwell brand and It works the best off all: it doesn't need to be unplugged and replugged to reconnect to the phone (read: you can leave it plugged in and just connect phone as needed). I have one in each of my cars to enable me to reset SES or confirm the light is on for a non mission critical reason like a tired cat.

Welcome to xoutpost, it's definitely the best place to get help with an X5.

Thank you, I have a bunch of little generic obd2 scan tools that I use with the taxis...although in the few times I have needed to do something with the X, they have all proved to be more useless than tits on a bull with the bmw lol. I'll definitely look into an obd2 wifi dongle if theres software out there that will prove to be more useful than gear I currently. One of the first things I did with the X5 was install an xtrons headunit and get Ibus up an running so an extra layer of integration and functionality through obd2 with that would fit very nicely and make me a happy camper.

I'm a little over four years into BMW ownership, having wrenched for the past 20 years on Japanese cars which never needed more than an OBDII scan tool (or more often, the paperclip jumper to read cars with pre-OBDI code reading systems). So like Andrew I got by with an OBDII scan tool for a couple of years.

I would say the worst part about owning this era of german car is that you don't know what scanning/diag tool solution you need. An OBDII scanner is close to useless. I purchased a $20 airbag scanner first, and later spent weeks of my life trying to get PA soft working, before caving in and spending $150 on a Foxwell NT510. In hindsight the Foxwell is, as far as I have learned, the best diag tool for us as home BMW mechanics. It's really the tool you need if you are going to attempt to diagnose any complicated problem. There are better tools but they are more expensive.

Someday I would like to write (or see someone write) an E53 or generic BMW owner's guide for the new BMW owner. Most of us who are buying these cars are not able or willing to spend $50k on a new BMW, and therefore are also unwilling to go drop a few thousand bucks at the dealership like a new BMW owner might. But we are diaging and fixing these cars ourselves, and there is no FAQ or "owner's guide" directed at new owners like us. Old-timer forum members like the guys responding here have often pointed me in the right direction which might have taken me days or weeks of troubleshooting to figure out.



But that all being said. Buy a Foxwell NT5xx. It should just be the first recommendation for anybody with a problem like this.

It should absolutely be the first purchase when buying a used BMW. Be careful, foxwell numbering system is flawed, 6xx models are not better than 5xx models. 5xx is what is needed.

I've added GM, Toyota, Chrysler to my NT510.

The base scanner is only for emissions codes, not any other modules, so it's not very helpful. The foxwell will send active commands like "engage AC compressor; it's invaluable for finding and fixing problems.

A while ago I had the ABS module out of my wife's X and when I put it back in, it didn't sync back up with the SAS.

Foxwell was able to sync the SAS.

Priceless.

From the sounds of it I will be grabbing a foxwell pretty soon then. You mentioned that you have added toyota etc to yours. Do you know if it is as powerful as the toyota techstream software? It would be great to be able to dump the TIS subscription I have if I pick up a foxwell. Especially as the toyota software can be a bit...yeah nah at times.

do not know but it has done everything I've needed. It's more complete on the BMW than the others but it showed me the exact part broken on brother's Camry AC (pressure sensor), the exact parts on other brother's Buick, etc.

That’s why I spent $ on foxwell vs the INPA/cord route. They whole thing is "windows Visa" level cringe worthy.

Sounds like you have a cord for the full power access to modules but you'll much prefer then the foxwell for regular maintenance based on feedback from xo members that have both.

Can confirm windows vista level of cringeworthyness.

Cable FINALLY came today, so I got about installing inpa from bimmergeeks and set out to fiddle with the X for a bit to get a feel for how it functions....I'm already just about ready to set the cable on fire and throw it under a passing train. between inpa just being blehh, constant script errors and randomly not being able to connect to different modules it's......interesting to say the least.

In regards to forcing the Aux fan on, is done through inpa, or is there another tool for doing that? I couldnt find anywhere within inpa to switch it on, the only reference I could find to it was under A/C and then status (it shows that the fan is off.....but I already know that by looking at it lol)

Update: found it under activate/digital output. However I get an EDIABAS error when trying to activate it.

ApiCheckJobStatus: Job-Status error:
[ERROR_RELAIS_ZUSATZLUEFTER] instead of [OKAY]!

Any ideas?

As you have likely found, the Aux fan can be activated under the engine/DDE module (in the activate menu) but you need to make sure you have selected the correct DDE variant (or you might get the script errors you are seeing).

I cannot quite remember what the correct module is labeleed in INPA - my '05 uses the DDE5.0 module, so I'm guessing you '06 is the same.

If you think INPA is a bag of monkeys, wait until you try DIS..!! :rofl:

Actually, I find INPA to be very relaiable, as is DIS (once I got it going that is).

Oh, and I forgot... if you have not yet cleared the DDE errors, do so first. It's possible that if the DDE has a fault code for the aux fan, it will not activate it. Your error message reads "ERROR RELAY ADDITIONAL FAN" so it seems likley the DDE has a fault code for the Aux fan and therefore returns the listed error.

Silly me I had completely forgotten google translate exists....Its been a long day lol.

I had already gone through and cleared all errors from all modules I can access before trying to activate the fan as I also have an annoying 4x4 light that has popped up in the last week that has my attention.

I'm also finding inpa less frustrating the more I play with it and figure out how it seems to like things to be done.

However when I go through engine I cant actually access it through what I thought mine should be (M57 TÜ)...I have to go through M57 new and get a few version mismatching warnings before getting in....

Is there an optimal version of INPA to be using for our cars? I'm literally just using what was recommended by the company that sold me my cable.

My INPA is the same - it spits up a few language mismatch errors before delivering the results (in German). I figure that this can be sorted if I spent more chunks of my life trying to sort it but I enjoy translating the results! :rolleyes:

While it seems that our M57TUD30 engines would be listed as the M57TÜ, I think the M57TÜ option uses DDE6.0 and it certainly doesn't work on my '05. Try the previous DDE option (related to DDE5.0) - works in my case. I think it's labelled as "DDE 5.0 for M57 new" but it varies from INPA version to version and between language variants.

Having said all that, it does seem like the aux fan is faulty... :(

Yes its "DDE 5.0 for M57 new" that works for me. I get a few version mismatch errors and warnings of possible malfunction but then I'm able to get in.

From the looks of things I'll just order a new fan. Now to figure out this 4x4 light....cleared everything..got it to go away...drove a few hundreds meters..it was fine...took a right turn..it came back on again with a dsc/4x4 inactive message...now I cant get it to clear again....All the data from the SAS appears to be showing fine in inpa and the yaw sensor seems to be a fairly common problem for the symptoms....so ill look further into that i guess.

I don't want to sound like a company representative but.... buy a Foxwell NT-510 or NT-520 and be done with the headaches. It will even code replacement modules but not do all the super coding some people want.

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Bahahaha I get where you are coming from for sure, I'll probably pop one on order in the next couple of weeks.

update: went for a drive...4x4 light immediately went away..didnt come back after driving for an hour :dunno:...

Quite a lot of thinks can trip 4x4 light many of which you can reset. I get trifecta about once a year from a wearing steering angle sensor.

Resetting an error causing trifecta won’t clear the error until you drive a bit. Did you capture the errors you cleared (I usually take pic with my phone).

+1 on foxwell 5xx. It’s not ∞ easier but it rounds.

Can you explain "from the look of thing". Did you get an error code for an inoperative aux fan or were you not able to activate the fan through INPA?

If you want a software system to do a bunch of stuff, well that's what you're working towards here.

But if you think your fan is bad, and just want to do a more careful test before buying a new one, you don't need anything beyond a voltmeter (true RMS probably required).

There are multiple ways to trigger the fan to come on, and if the rest of your car (ECU, AC, ...) is working fine, they should all work. The simplest (to me) seems to be the one shown in post #24 by @Overboost. Turn AC on, pull that connector off, and the fan should be commanded to run at full speed.

Then you measure voltage on the control wire going to the fan, and see if it behaves like I describe in post #28.

If you see power and ground on the two fat wires in that connector, and the control wire voltage is measured as it should be ... and the fan does not spin ... it's a pretty easy diagnosis. Maybe not 100% certain, but watching the control voltage change as it should will confirm the control signal is not majorly wrong. Definitely easy enough to do before just buying a new fan if other testing methods did not work.

Also, even if you do command the fan to spin using a Foxwell, INPA, PASoft, etc., unless you actually measure the voltage at the connector going to the fan, using a scope or voltmeter, you won't be sure the problem is not between the Foxwell/ECU and the connector.

My Foxwell sends the control signal as well, with specifics listed by me earlier in this thread. My BMW Scanner PASoft clone thing probably used to, but decided to stop working when I tried it on this problem.

With most of the higher end fluke DMM, they also will show you frequency and duty cycle. Even better than the rms voltage method (which is excellent research and sharing so thanks for that)

The Errors I had causing the 4x4 light were 55C4 and 54C6.

I was unable to activate it through INPA. When trying to I got the following Error "ERROR_RELAIS_ZUSATZLUEFTER" (ERROR RELAY, AUXILIARY FAN according to google translate)

The 55C4 is a comms error between the DSC controller and the transfer case controller. Many causes it seems...

The 54C6 is the classic transfer case "oil wear" error and I'm pretty sure it won't trip the 4x4 lamp (on it's own). It indicates that your transfer case need to be drained and refilled with fresh BMW Power Divider Fluid (BMW DTF1). You then need to run a reset procedure on the VTG module to reset this oil wear code (and transfer case adaptions etc.). You cannot do this with INPA - which is the main reason I got DIS up and running. you can also perform this specialised reset via a Foxwell....

I was going to look into doing the transfer case fluid this weekend, being a lubrication issue I would rather do it sooner than later. What's involved with getting DIS going? I really dont want the car to be driven around for weeks and weeks without it being done while waiting for my Foxwell.

Just hold off doing the transfer case fluid job until you get the Foxwell - it's lasted this long!

Or do the fluid change now and then do the reset later. Lots of folk never do the reset at all. Not my own preference but hey, each to their own....

As for getting DIS up and running - I'm happy to help with that if you are crazy enough. It needs a Windows PC running a VMWare Virtual Desktop application to run the UNIX-based DIS system. Then you need to set up a virtual diagnostic head emulation to connect your existing K-Line OBD cable via EDIABAS to a virtual Ethernet port in the DIS. ;)

(Cue sarcastic comment from Andrew!!). :rofl:

With a technical background in various IT areas, I'm not scared off by this...however I do know that its alot more screwing around than I am prepared to commit to with a couple of businesses, a 2 year old and the rest of the family all competing for my time and attention.....I'll wait for the Foxwell :rofl:

Funny guy.

Mehr Leistung für diejenigen, die 30 Jahre alte Software auf 20 Jahre alter Hardware arbeiten lassen

I have no idea how accurate that is any more than I'd know how to read the German software.

I would not mind having a craptop with the BMW suite to especially do coding but the relative ease to do virtually all the needed services put a solid win in the foxwell column.

Hey - I didn't say your postion wasn't justified! :D

For the record, I'm actually WITH you, Andrew - the Foxwell seems like a MUCH better diagnostic solution for most people... I went down the INPA/DIS path as much for the practice in the fine art of inventing new expletives as obtaining a working diagnostics system. :bustingup

Didn't meant to poke fun at the topic at your expense... :stickpoke

No harm meant - Friede, Bruder :cool:

I'm well aware of the tongue-in-cheek "tone" of your comment.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I swear I learn so much on this site. To think that it has been a quarter century since Windows 95, and I just learned a new word ... craptop :rofl::rofl::rofl::thumbup:

https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/craptop

I’ve been using the term since before it was semi-official. Most often when working on windowz computers since by the definition above they all qualify. “An undesirable laptop computer”

Drink the "APPLE" cider and get a Macbook oe an iMac.

FYI definitely NOT an apple fanboy.