Can't Sync Keys
 

I have a few key remotes, 4 China ones and 1 BMW key, that I can't get to sync. I've tried several different methods I've found throughout the forum. Something that's dawned on my recently though is that they all call for the doors to be closed. Using my IBUS app, I can see that my sunroof is considered open as it is highlighted in orange. Could that prevent me from syncing my keys?

I am sure you found many instructions sequences posted many many years ago that could be relevant today. I will re-post these proven to work instructions as the original poster has long since left the community for some other brand, as there are others who are getting their X5 for the first time as the 4th or 5th owners.

Key Programming Instructions

Remember...you will need to have BOTH remote keys with you when you program the new key. Any remote key NOT reinitialized during the same session will NOT communicate with the GM...and will not lock/unlock & arm/disarm the car using the remote buttons.

Each programming session assigns a specific key code and new rolling code table to the keys...so any remote key NOT present will not have the update...thus will not work remotely.

Here's the programming instructions just in case you need them...plus some tips that some fail to follow...thus fail to initialize their remotes:
KL R = ignition position 1 (1st click after the OFF position...not position 2 or with engine running)
All doors must be closed
All doors must be unlocked
Only insert the 1st key into the ignition...after STEP 6...start programming the 2nd remote on STEP 3 where you start pressing the buttons
Remember...you will need to have BOTH remote keys with you when you program the new key. Any remote key NOT reinitialized during the same session will NOT communicate with the GM...and will not lock/unlock & arm/disarm the car using the remote buttons.

Each programming session assigns a specific key code and new rolling code table to the keys...so any remote key NOT present will not have the update...thus will not work remotely.

Here's the programming instructions just in case you need them...plus some tips that some fail to follow...thus fail to initialize their remotes:
KL R = ignition position 1 (1st click after the OFF position...not position 2 or with engine running)
All doors must be closed
All doors must be unlocked
Only insert the 1st key into the ignition...after STEP 6...start programming the 2nd remote on STEP 3 where you start pressing the buttons.

Good luck!:thumbup:

Yep. I think all doors and windows need to be closed. Also the lock status of the doors so have to be the same. Locked or unlocked but I never remember which. Does your alarm set when you lock the door?

I didn't know I had an alarm. Does all doors and windows include the sunroof, which I guess is technically both?

Also make sure you've purchased correct MHz key.

Yes, I learned that lesson. I have 4 China keys that supposedly switch frequencies with a button combination, but I have no way to verify. My X5s use 433 MHz. The BMW key is the same old one that used to work, but the battery died. I replaced the battery, but it doesn't work anymore. I also recently replaced the GM3 to solve some door locking issues.

Can't Sync Keys
 

More often than not the " battery died " is actually just cold solder joints . I've done Reflow on a couple keys to make them work again otherwise the buttons also will break and that will cause malfunction. If you can open up the key check the voltage. Also did you replace the battery with an appropriate 3 volt rechargeable lithium battery


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Most people who never replaced a battery in a BMW FOB don't know how to do it correctly and end up damaging the circuit board on the FOB. You wouldn't do brain surgery on your spouse what makes you think you can open up a seal fob and replace the battery.

Here's a thread with possibly related info from Qsilver7:
https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/k.../#post-8140995

Here's one for when I did surgery on a couple of my BMW key fobs (genuine BMW, bought used off eBay and reprogrammed for keyless entry but not EWS):
https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...r-options.html

But to answer your first, direct question, I'll suggest (not knowing for sure) that yes, since your system thinks your sunroof is open when it's not, that will affect the whole keyless entry system including preventing successful reprogramming.

Do you have other system locking control problems?

I once had a flaky driver's door lock actuator (DLA). It kind of worked, but (from memory):
- sometimes unlocking would appear weak, rear doors might only unlock half way, etc.
- the central locking/unlocking button on the center console did not work at all
- remote entry had been flaky, and then when I tried to reprogram them all, it was very reliably not working at all. And I've reprogrammed several times over the years, generally with no problems.

After I finally got BOTH my foxwell and my PASoft BMW Scanner doing serious debugging, I found that the system thought that the driver's door was open, even when it was closed.

Jumping ahead to the answer, this single fault was the root cause of everything not working. Perhaps a simple problem with the microswitch door latch position detector. I swapped my mechanically compromised but electrically good driver's DLA assembly back in there, and everything instantly was perfect again. So then I fixed it mechanically and am still running with it.

Rear door locking / unlocking, which had appeared weak doing Foxwell active testing, was solid and strong. Key programming worked again, etc. BTW, I probably have a thread on here about that whole episode with more accurate details vs. my memory here.

So I will guess that the sunroof thing is the problem. Especially if the sunroof is actually closed when it says it's open.

It's not clear whether the sunroof would count as a "door" with regard to the rules for programming. But if it says it's open when it's closed, it indicates a problem in this very complex system, and things could shut down anyway.

The fact that you did not know you have an alarm suggests even more that there is a system problem. Does the "clown nose" red knob / light under the rearview mirror flash when the car is locked?

Also, speaking from painful experience, having a failed keyless entry will make you rely on the driver's door key lock for entry. And that thing is not designed to be used regularly. It will break within less than a thousand uses, I think. And then you'd need to figure out how to break into the car without damaging anything. And the "secret" method for doing that relies on a functioning central locking system, so you'd be stuck like I was. :D

And regarding your battery-replaced BMW fob, I'd not give up on that yet. The way the system works, it should appear completely dead if there is a problem as I'm suggesting here. Get that fixed, and the fob may then program and work just fine.

Yep, almost every non-func FOB I've opened had a broken battery solder joint from years of being dropped and handled... well, like a key.

Not sure the brain surgery analogy holds up... but yes, if you are completely ham-fisted or very impatient, don't attempt to replace one of these batteries.

Like "Brain Surgery" you are cutting into the case and unless you know what you are doing you will most likely damage the circuit board or the "Brain" of the FOB.

https://www.bmwgm5.com/kf_wos.htm

I get a kick out of his wall of shame. I forgot about his service, been around forever. Valuable resource, think I've bought batteries from him on Ebay. I agree though, that if you aren't someone who has the skills (or the ability to pick up simple skills quickly), $50 is a small fee for a repaired key.

Still not sure it's anything like medical brain surgery to open up one of these keys. But hey, maybe I'll give that a go if the wife starts being un-reponsive to my inputs. ;)

Hope you have a dog for a good buddy.

The wall of shame is great. The prices with the "already fucked with" cost penalty. I managed to drill a hole through the PCB knocking out a trace and had to patch. (I drilled and tapped 2mm threads to use micro Allen head screws to bolt the thing back together)

Clear copy on all the helpful advice. Unfortunately, the key was already broken open when I bought the car. It did work until the battery died. It does not look to be a rechargeable version. The only other key I have starts and opens the car, but has no buttons.

Anyone have a picture of the red light? I've never seen one on any of my three X5s. Perhaps these Middle Eastern models don't have the alarm?

Just send it to the guy that I posted "The wall of Shame". The battery has to be a rechargeable Lithium battery and needs to be spot welded, not soldered to the board.

Can't Sync Keys
 

The DIY batteries have Solder tabs wooded on so it's not a difficult job for somebody that has soldering skill however you won't have replacement button switches or experience so @UAL assessment is correct in that's the best bet. I would prob buy an actual key from the online dealer that sells real keys for a second key.

I'm saying literally that is what I would do as I'm planning to order one soon so I can do the reflow/button switch/ battery replace on my only key which remote stopped working about 18 months ago.

I have read not exaggerating over a dozen similar threads where the final result is a dealer key.

In those threads, I can estimate about a 15:1 ratio of didn't to did work with non dealer solutions and the :1 examples are where the EWS hardware is removed to pair with a new key or the guts are swapped to a new key. The only other option I've seen with solid success is cutting the blade off an eBay key to use as a separate remote.

Not saying you won't resolve this issue but I think your car is stuck in a mode where you can't program keys likely do to the open roof.

In that case a new dealer key will still not resolve your issue there problem is you don't know if your primary key battery is functional or the remote is broken on it so you have no control.

I'm actually PACE certified in through-hole soldering and board repair, so it might be I'm more of a brain surgeon than the fellow you suggest. I don't mind you assuming though.

Now, Wyn saying I don't have experience with this particular situation is correct, which is what I came to these boards for. If we assume it isn't a "key" issue, what else could it be? Reading Scott's site, he says when programming the keys that only the doors matter for the purpose or programming. Leaning towards the FZV or maybe even just a fuse issue. Is there anything INPA and such could tell me about the issue?

Thanks again guys for the help. I don't want this issue to persist and have the physical lock break from over use.

I have some experience cutting open two of my keys to reflow and replace one of the batteries.

I was successful in both keys even repairing the one I drilled through a trace.

That said after working about two years one was lost and the other stopped working.

I can't risk reflow again on my only key so I'll be getting a factory key when I get tax return then I will open up my key and reflow it again.

You should check the battery on your primary key then measure it while pressing each button to confirm the button switches are working.

Then: figure out if the roof window switch is your problem you can maybe jumper the switch to convince the car it's closed. (odds are that will be tricky BMW uses hall effect sensors not micro switches usually.

The clown nose is the red hemisphere on the bottom of the rearview mirror and when alarm is set the nose flashes.

You can confirm if the alarm is working a couple ways:

1. Open hood, press the hood switch, lock the door with key (helper), release hood switch. That should set off alarm.

2. Leave a door or trunk open, lock driver door with key, close door. That should make the corner lights all flash to confirm alarm set.

I'm pretty sure alarm will set with roof window open so unsure that will help you I'm thinking monitor the roof open sensor and open/close a couple times see if you can set it to close and start key sync.

The DWA system's clown nose (red LED) below the interior rear view mirror:

OK, you're probably overqualified for this job. :thumbup:

I did the battery replacement on two of my fobs, very successfully. Link with all the things I learned while doing that is listed several posts up. I don't do any of this stuff for a living. Self taught in all these repairs I do.

Have no charging problems at all with my fobs. And my key solution was to buy 3x used genuine BMW diamond keys on eBay for $45 total, cut off the key blades, and pair them with valet keys bought from an online BMW dealer for about $40 each - with 3 kids I figured one or more would get lost, but they're all still here.

If you believe all the doubters on here, you may think I'm making this up, but it is 100% possible. Easy in fact if you have a particular set of skills. :cool: :rofl: So if you do have those skills, I'll say to ignore the naysayers. I had no problems at all opening up the keys. If anything, the most advanced secret technology that may be causing others to fail, vs. being easy for me, was that I knew I should use a utility knife with a brand new blade and a steady hand. No problems at all.

Not sure what PACE is, but it sounds good. :thumbup: Back in the day I was once actually a PACE instructor on a US Navy aircraft carrier. We spent some time right in your neighborhood, in fact. I was a Computer Science Professor - in the Navy, PACE means Program for Afloat College Education, where the crew can earn college credits by taking classes in their spare time on the ship. Great program, but I'm guessing your PACE is something else. :D

Regarding the sunroof counting as a door or not, I'll suggest that even if it does not "count," the fact that you've got a *problem* with the locking control system may be causing things not to work. I was thinking about going out to my x5 as a test for you, to see if I can reprogram keys, having no problems, but leaving the sunroof open. But then I realized that if it worked, it would be a confirmation of the sunroof not counting as a door (for me, at least), but would not confirm that is your problem.

I assume INPA would be very helpful for you. As I mentioned, I used Foxwell and PASoft BMW Scanner 1.4.0. I've got some fairly detailed info somewhere on this site about that repair. One interesting thing I just remembered is that the two different scanners gave very different sets of information / faults / tests. But the definitive thing was when Foxwell told me the driver's door was open when it was actually closed. With that clear info, I electrically swapped in (just plugged in the connector with the inner door panel off, not actually doing the DLA replacement yet) my original, electrically good / mechanically cracking DLA and had instant success with everything.

I would not do any worrying about the keyless entry until you have the central locking / alarm / sunroof open issues taken care of. If your only problem was the keys not programming, I'd say to look into the keys, but these other symptoms indicate a deeper problem that will prevent the keys from working even if the keys are good.

If you want to guess at an answer and drill (figuratively, not literally :rofl:) into it, you could try to find the limit switch (or upstream wiring) that indicates the sunroof is open or closed. Somehow rig that (make it a closed or open circuit as needed) to make it look like the sunroof is always closed. That alone might make everything work (i.e., you would then be able to program the keys).

I have nothing like that in my car. I get why it is called a clown nose now. A decode of my VIN shows nothing about a security system.

I should be able to take a look at this again this weekend. The sunroof showing as open or potentially the FZV seem the most likely candidates, but I'll spend a little time retracing my steps as well. Thanks again for the knowledgeable advice from all of those who've given it.

How'd you utilize the valet keys? I'm assuming the inductive coil for the coded start is somewhere in the valet key.

That is circuit

Yes...all of the keys (remote and non-remote...aka "valet") has an EWS transponder inside that communicates the same ISN (individual serial number) with the EWS control module and DME.

The valet key's transponder is tucked into the head of the key...you can get an idea of the location in the 1st illustration below (look for the grayed-out area in each key head). If you look at your valet key...you can see that there's an access panel in the head of the key.

The EWS transponder chip (inside the old style remote & non-remote keys) uses induction technology, too...see 2nd illustration below that gives an explanation of the inductive functionality of the autonomous transponder chip found inside the aforementioned type of BMW keys. The new style remote key's transponder is soldered to the internal IC board...but the old style remote and all non remote keys have an "autonomous" EWS transponder chip.

Yes, the valet key has the EWS chip to handle the "coded start."

I can't yet see the figures in Qsilver7's post, but ...

The photo in post #1 of my thread referred to earlier shows the setup:
https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...r-options.html

And I also have one intact original diamond key that came with the car. With the 3 pairs of valet+fob, I have 4x fully functional things to do the keyless entry and start the car. It is said there is a limit of 10x EWS chips per car. I don't know if there is a limit to the number of remotes that can be programmed.

I have not cut a valet key open, but it appears to me to be solid state. No panels or batteries or anything that I can see. It looks like that gray plastic head is cast over the head, enclosing the circuit. From a basic understanding of how things like that work (that may be wrong, and if I could see Qsilver7's figures, I may know more), underneath that gray plastic is some sort of coil (performing the function of a coil and antenna, even if it does not look like one) that can receive the 315 MHz magnetic field, converting it into an electric potential to drive the circuit with an EWS chip. The EWS chip wakes up, reads the coded signal on that 315 MHz carrier signal, and responds with its own processed output code, sending it back on (possibly) the same coil (now used as an antenna).

So basically it's a circuit underneath the gray plastic.

• There is no battery.
• It contains the EWS chip coded to the car's security system, that you can "only get" from BMW.
• One step up from the valet key is a "master key" (not the diamond key; this has no remote functionality) which does everything the valet key does, also unlocks the glove box, and has a light built in. That needs a battery to power the light. I don't have one, just read about it.
• Neither the valet nor master key does anything regarding keyless entry. Just the mechanical lock and the EWS chip + communications.

The cut-off diamond key fob shown in my pic does all the keyless entry stuff, and can be (must be) programmed to work on a new car or when things need to be reinitialized. They are optional. You can use the valet key to mechanically unlock the driver's door, turn the ignition, and communicate with the EWS to start the car. Those fobs also have their own EWS chips, power source, antenna, etc.

So when I'm using a valet key + fob, and scanning for codes with my Foxwell (or previously PASoft BMW Scanner 1.4.0), I would get a low priority EWS warning since it finds TWO EWS chips - a valid one in the valet key, and an invalid one from the fob which matches whatever car it came from. But it does not cause any problems.

If you were to buy a new diamond key from a dealer, based on you providing your VIN, they'd sell you a key containing a BMW-programmed EWS chip (one of 10 for your car). It would rely on you still having the original car-side part of that system to communicate with. The keyless entry functionality would need to be programmed by going through the standard procedure in your car.

I expect one day my computer will show me Qsilver7's figures and I may need to update this. But as far as functionality goes, there are no problems.

FWIW, I think the EWS induction RF field and comms signal is a lot lower than 315/433MHz (which is used for the remote fob radio) - more like 125kHz or something.

Good to know. I assumed it would just use the same carrier as the remote fob, since it's already there, and the EWS just needs a little coded signal. That's maybe one of the details in Qsilver7's figures, which are always very informative when I can see them. And I can believe that whatever BMW did, it was well done, and for a good reason here.

Another general comment on the keys - it is amazing how much confusing, changing, and sometimes wrong info is out there. If I did not have these valet keys in hand and working, I might not know or believe they exist.

When I bought them from an online BMW dealer - thebmwminipartstore.com - (order placed over the phone after emailing scans of the registration and my driver's license) there was some confusion / misunderstanding when I ordered them. I did not want valet keys, I wanted what I now understand to be the "master" key (although the valet keys are fine - I just can't lock/unlock the glove box with them, and there is no light, which is a plus for me), and thought that's what I'd get. And the valet key is actually better for my needs due to having no battery, completely solid, impervious to water, etc.

But this is what I got. I was going to post the part number + the superseded one, but doing a quick google on them, I have doubts that they are right. So basically, watch out, be prepared for confusion, photographs should be helpful.

EDIT - I just checked, and these are the two keys on that site I bought my valet keys from. Obviously the $170 one is the "diamond key." No confusion about that one, but ... The other one is called a valet key there. Shown in the figure but not offered for sale looks like what my understanding would call a "master key." I think pricing was around $140 and $40 when I bought mine in late 2014.

It says there, "Plastic Valet Key." What I got clearly has a plastic head and a metal blade. I have heard legends of true plastic keys with plastic blades that are supposedly delicate and not intended for repeated use. The plastic-head/metal-blade valet keys I got are probably the toughest keys available.

https://www.thebmwminipartstore.com/...86-66126955748

https://www.thebmwminipartstore.com/...ey-51217127047

Good info especially if you can pull the ews chip out of valet or master key. You can buy eBay keys designed to port over the chip. Also I had assumed the frequency was the same because I think it uses the same pickup coil as charging for the ews but having it dofrent would reduce odds it would have interference.

You need a much lower RF frequency for the charging induction field - a 315/433Mhz is too high in frequency to provide much power for charging and powering the EWS circuit. The 125kHz frequency is commonly used on door access systems etc. (Wiegand). And electric toothbrush chargers! ;)

Re. the various keys - a picture is worth 1000 (of my) words! I have a standard "diamond" 433MHz key, plus one of the Illuminated Universal Keys, as shown on the left in this image...

https://i-a.d-cd.net/-IAAAgG7DuA-1920.jpg

The plastic "Valet" key is on the right?

*edit* I just found something that calls the left hand key above the "Valet" key and the plastic one on the right as a "Wallet" key. :dunno:

Here's my valet key, with the cut-off diamond key fob.

It has the functionality of a valet key in that it does only the minimum needed to valet the car - unlock the door and start the car. It does not unlock the glove box. So I can believe it really should be called a valet key.

To determine if other keys could / should be called valet keys, I think the simple test is whether it opens the glove box. As I recall, it has an extra part on the key that prevents it from even fitting in the glove box key slot.

I think the right-side key in @wpoll's post is:
- not the valet key
- would make sense to be called a wallet key
- I expect it can at the least do the functions of a valet key
- Appears to fit the legend I referred to earlier of an all plastic (except the enclosed circuit) key that is not designed for extended usage.
- It may be what I've seen called a "service key", with PN 51218213932

The "illuminated universal" key fits the functional description (fully functional + light) of what I had found called a "master" key (if we are allowed to say that on here) with a PN of 51218213909.

All info and part numbers here should be suspect, but here are more PNs to look up and confirm if you like. And then still doubt them. This info is all at least 5 years old.
51218213931 - Spare key. Valet key. superseded to 51217124770

51218236594 - EWS III key (per the bmw mini parts store.com - shows …931 superseded to this) [no idea what that means]

66126955750 - Diamond key (not the official name, but what everyone calls it). Master Key with remote control. Universal Key with remote control.

Attachment 79639

Just more FYI....the FZV/DWA (central locking/alarm siren system) features of the remote keys transmits on either 315 MHz RF or 433 MHz RF. EWS communicates over the 125 KHz radio frequency


There are two different kind of key blades, too. With the older version keys...its easy to tell the valet key from a “master” key (which can open everything)...the valet key does NOT have the groove down the middle of the key blade (see pic below).



The newer key blade's "cut" appears as a grooved out "canyon" that runs down the middle of the blade with the sides of the blade being smooth. I’m not sure how the valet key is cut on the new style blades.