%!@$&!!! I broke two bolts off putting the water pump pulley back on.
 

The thermostat housing was leaking in my "new" car so I decided to change the water pump while I was at it. But it seems I'm stronger than I think. Putting it back together I was alternating diagonally across the bolts trying to get them evenly tight and I snapped two heads off! Now what?

How do I get them out? Can I drive the car short distances in the meantime? My other car is apart and I wouldn't have been working on this one except for a big hole in the thermostat housing.

You may be better off just replacing the water pump. You could try pulling your existing water pump out and drilling out the broken bolts, but you will need to retap the threads and use larger bolts in the pulley

I think I would replace the water pump

Those are pretty small screws so it doesn't take a lot of torque to snap them. Get yourself a cheap torque wrench at Harbor Freight. Something is better than nothing.

I guess that makes sense. Sort of sad, but probably right. I could even temporarily put the old pump back in. It seems fine, original BMW part from when the car was built in 2005, but it would keep me going. I would need new screws. REALOEM lists them as M6X16-U1-8.8, does anyone know what that means if I try to source them locally?

Yea. I didn't find any torque specs for them but that is a good idea if I can find the specs. I really had no notion of how far to take them.

I actually have a Schwaben torque wrench on order from Pelican Parts for several weeks now but it hasn't gotten here.

Those might come out fairly easy. Those are not any special kind of bolt and I wouldn't worry about using what ever you can find just be careful about the length. Maybe put the originals across from each other.

The bolt is m6-1.0x16 8.8

Spec is 7.5 ft·lb or about one strong pinky pull. Spec is usually 80% of yield Soo 7.5/.8=9.375 ft·lb to plastic deformation where it just stretches until destruction basically 10 ft·lb is enough to destroy the bolt.

Unfortunately you broke both on one side of the square I wouldn't drive that. Fortunately the hub of the water pump is open on the back and would not be difficult to drill out the broken bolts you can probably use left hand drill bits and get them out you only need 10 ft·lb torque.

Also: if the hub is tight like the wheels to center the pulley, turn the whole thing 45°and drill four new holes.

I have right angle drill adapter I could do it in place.

Thanks. 10 lbs is not a lot, even I know that! I def went too far.

The short term choice seems to be get some bolts locally and put the old pump back in for the time being or get the other car roadworthy and sort this out with some time. Parts I need for the '01 are arriving tomorrow by 8 pm. But what will I F up there?

If you remove the two good bolts, good chance you can extract the other two with the few possibilities, then get four new bolts before you likely stretched the two remaining bolts. The hub is open in back I'm sure there is extra room for four mm so a 20mm bolt would work or a 15mm also would likely work.

Pull the 2 good bolts and take the pulley off and then get ready to use good condition or new vice grips...

Unless they ended up cockeyed from getting snapped off you should be able to turn them even from the back if they protrude enough.

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For a small bolt like this: slot with Dremel use impact work flat blade bit


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That'd work perfect!

I've used dozens of times and yes works amazingly well. I also use the method to install the from the back bolts that hold the rear wheel bearings on e53. You can turn the hub to align the bolt and a long flat blade will reach through to snug up each bolt then you need less than 1/4 turn to torque them and with two wobble extensions you can work around the CV joint without removing the axle or the suspension or the exhaust

If the bolt on this case is submerged you can likely use a hardened chisel instead of Dremel to make the notch and a hammer strike impact screwdriver to turn the broken bolt since the impact works to push the blade into the groove


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Thanks (all). I guess I really ought to pull the pulley off and try before I order a new water pump (the fan and shroud are back on, but I'm getting experienced at taking them off). I own a nearly new pair of needle nose vice grips. But drilling old bolts out is Greek to me. I guess I'm wondering if I can drive to the hardware store (5 country miles) to get new bolts before I pull everything apart?

Thanks to the help I've calmed down and realized it's not a huge disaster, just a minor inconvenience.

Bicycle? Über? A nice walk in the country? Not worth the risk to drive.


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You've got a small problem that will become very big if those last two bolts go while you're driving it.

Understood.

Remember when you put them back on the torque is 10Nm or 7 ft/lbs

Thanks, I will. I have a rough idea what that is even by hand, but I'll borrow a torque wrench from my local O'Reillys if the one I ordered doesn't arrive.

Do you know a torque spec for the Water Pump bolts as well? And how about the thermostat? I was guessing at them all.

Water Pump
Body - 10 Nm (7.4 ft-lbs, 89 in-lbs)
Pulley - 10 Nm (7 ft-lbs)

Thermostat
3 Identical Bolts - 9.9 Nm (7.3 ft-lbs)
Housing bolt right M8X30 - 24 Nm (17.7 ft-lbs)

Save this link as your go-to on M54 engines

https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/...guide.1277305/

Thanks. Great link too.

:thumbup:

Might be time for an electric fan conversion.


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Plus one. Bookmarked. Even though I can usually find the particular torque values I need, having my motor's torque numbers in one place is great. Not too much different on the different chassis


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You should be able to get those out with an ez out. You won't have to re tap the holes that way. Drill the center of the broken bolts, put the ez out in and turn to loosen. The tool is designed to run itself in tighter when you turn in the normal direction to loosen a bolt. I've had to use one several times. Most recently when one of the bolts for the rear diff snapped. By the way, don't lift the rear of your truck by jacking under the diff.

:iagree:

I see this done regularly on all kinds of vehicles. Why not?

Because BMW says not to. And because I did (repeatedly) and I ended up with a broken bolt that holds the differential to the subframe, I suspect there's a reason they say not to.

Search forum for "partial cooling overhaul DIY"...

%!@$&!!! I broke two bolts off putting the water pump pulley back on.
 

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...792eda4e5b.jpg

This is what I've found in the past regarding lifting BMW cars from BMW.

That said; search TIS for lifting e53 and you will find this:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c9a1f6cc6e.jpg

Unlike most rear diffs, the BMW rear diff is made of aluminum and has integrated cooling fins cast in. Jacking by the rear diff can cause extreme stress on the fins which can cause the aluminum to yield and break.

And it's very hard on the rubber diff bushings since they are designed to quietly hold the diff in place and NOT to lift the car. I think we went through some of this in another thread.

The rear diff is an acceptable lift point throughout the X5 range. You must be sure however to get in front of the cover. Risk of a leak or damage to fins as mentioned is a concern if you put the jack under the diff cover.

I'm not sure about damage to the bushings, but BMW does not mention it as a concern. AFAIK anyway. I've lifted our X5's from the diffs at least 20 times between the 3 and so far, no ill effects. The F15 threw me for a loop initially because it has the adaptive drive options (all of them) and so has an extra seam on it for the motor or whatever it is that manipulates the diff.

Actually quote from TIS:

Still I've done it several times too.

Quote from same TIS:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...792eda4e5b.jpg

:dunno::dunno::dunno: BMW has been known to contradict itself before. But they state as long as you avoid the cover, the diff is one of the 3 listed jack points.

Here's a thread just on the diff jacking:
https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...rear-diff.html

In addition to the breaking of stuff, I have always considered diff jacking to be a risk of disturbing the diff gasket, leading to a leak. So if breakage is not a concern, then at least it may be important to jack the differential itself, rather than the cover, or the interface between the two. That could explain what the TIS is talking about, cited above.

When I first got my x5, I spent some effort figuring out how to jack the rear, and ended up building a special adapter that does not put any load on the diff, but puts it all on the square beam that goes from left to right, behind the diff. Last time I was under there, I took some more photos to show the fit, and will upload them to that thread listed above.

Yes, that is mentioned on many older models or did you find this somewhere on E53 section?

Seems I was mistaken. It shows as not permissible on the E53 as you said. But shows as permissible on the E70 and F15 in TIS. I'm not sure of the engineering differences... but without doing some sort of custom setup like oldskewel (or a lift) I'm not sure how else you would easily lift the rear?

I always use a 2x4 on the lift pad, make sure to clear the diff cover, and get jack stands under the truck as quickly as possible so I'm comfortable using the diff... but looks like you are not supposed to lift from the diff on the E53 according to BMW. :dunno:

I was super frustrated when a buddy of mine jacked my E53 on the front lower control arm. :yikes:

I do that when changing a tire only takes 2-3 pumps with my speed jack to lift the tire. The fronts only are 1200# each and that's nothing for the suspension parts (well not the wishbone that I would not use)

I drilled down the TIS into e53 and e90. Posted above the results.

E90 says diff ok avoid the back plate, e53 says don't do it.

Good to know! I was using the directives from other cars and have lifted from the diff.

I'm curious if there is a reasonable substitute eg lifting from the subframe even if I have to make a jig, it's like 8x the effort to lift at the jack points, though I could maybe do with help and two floor jacks.

One directive I saw for 3 series approved use of subframe around dif.

Since breaking and repairing one of the bolts holding the diff to the subframe, I've started jacking from the subframe right behind the diff. The sway bar runs across there as well. A 4x4 with a slot cut for the sway bar takes care of any chance of damaging the sway bar. I don't think it's likely, but you never know.

Can you post some dimensions so I can clone that?

I have to do my subframe bushings and would love to have the jig before.

My jack only has about 17" Mac height so I might double up the 4x4 to get more height.

I'm stunned BMW didn't put a jack point in the back since no go on diff.

PS: I'm curious what bolt broke, there shouldn't be any bolt that can break with 3200#

Wish I'd seen this before starting. I watched two YouTube videos and read the Wayne's World post and none of them said how tight to make the bolts. But two implied you don't want them to vibrate off which I mistakenly took as "tight". You explain how tight very well. So I will try to bump your thread for other novices like me:


DIY: 2006 BMW X5 3.0i PARTIAL Cooling Overhaul @ 116K miles

It did tear my bushing though. :dunno:

Actually what I referred to is that: once you have a problem with let's say fan clutch or thermostat, you are > 100K miles, chances you a lot of stuff are waiting to fail: reservoir, thermostat, WP etc. etc. etc.

This is why in BMW forums, when people discuss M52, M54 engines, they always recommend a partial cooling overhaul at 100K or so.
And the complete cooling overhaul at 180K-200K.

PS: For small bolts such as the 10-mm bolts you broke: here is my tip. I use a tiny bit of Red Loctite, then tighten using only 1 finger or the pinky.

No 8. Snapped off where the thread stops which just about lines up with how far it threads into the diff case.

10mm bolt advised torque is 37 ft·lb (class 8.8 to roughly match the BMW torque spec of the 6mm bolt you're calling 10mm (head size).

Advised torque of the 6mm class 8.8 is 82 in·lb.

The bolts are unknown class but moot point if they are threaded into aluminum

You said arm not ball joint. I suppose ends of life tension strut bushings might not put up with the forces but they go through similar forces every time you hit the brakes. If you are talking about the front bushings, if they got torn from lifting on the tension strut they were already torn you just didn't see it. Maybe that's actually a good way to test them.

It was the way the jack tweaked the arm. It twisted the large bushing on the arm a bit, and tore what was probably already torn, and made it bit worse.

That is exactly how you test them, by stressing them.