2005 TRANSMISSION FAILING.. MODLE # A5S 390R YZ
 

2 Years ago I bought a 2005 X5 with 122,000 miles on it. Now It has 166,000 miles on it. For the past few months my service engine light has been on giving me fault codes about misfires and running to Rich or to lean bank 1 bank 2 etc and other engine related codes. yet the engine ran fine. The alternator completely died about 3 weeks ago and after I replace it I cleared the fault codes and everything was good. Two days after that I got a fault code of p0735 stating "Gear 5 incorrect ratio". The transmission started to slip and not go into 5th gear and it would go into fail safe mode. I shut off the engine for a few minutes and then start it again the fail safe mode light will be off and I can drive it like normal however it will not go into 5th and then it goes back inyo the failsafe mode and now I have lost reverse. My question is did the low amperage or voltage output from the alternator wipe out any of the electronics in the transmission. What would be the best way to go on fixing this problem?. Do I replace the transmission with one from the dealer at $5,000. Which would include the torque converter but not the 10 quarts of lifetime fluid at $500.00
Have my transmission rebuilt at $4,500.00
Get a rebuilt one from a parts house that I don't know a thing about it for under $2, 000.00 or so and hope it will work and for how long because I don't want to go through this again down the road. Has anyone experienced similar problems with their transmission please let me know because I'm thinking of replaceing or rebuilding it. Or am I thinking the wrong way and not seeing something. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

Has anyone done an initial diagnosis on the transmission?

A couple of points:
1. There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluid.
2. Even BMW fluid is not $50 a liter.
3. There are options besides a dealer or parts house. Have you considered an ATRA member transmission shop with good reviews on Google/Yelp?
4. Gear ratio error codes could be signify low fluid, but could also (and probably are, at 166 k miles) a sign of internal wear.
5. While these cars are very sensitive to low voltages, if the charging system is good, I'd doubt that you fried anything from that alone.

Check your transfer case motor gear as it probably needs to be flipped, when you're checking the fluids (transmission/transfer).

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We had a Mercury sable that had a defective solenoid for torque converter lockup. The symptoms sound identical.

We would get a code related to the transmission slipping in high gear on long drives.

You can tell if the transmission is not locking up by getting up to highway speed and then slightly accelerate from say 55 to 58 mph. The tach should barely move. If the tach rises and settles back down, transmission is not locked. This could be the actuator or the torque converter.

The ZF tranny in my e46 330 has the solenoid issue

In the case of the ZF tranny the issue is generally not with the solenoid going bad as much as there is a seal in the torque converter that won't allow the tranny to hold the necessary pressure to engage overdrive.

Unfortunately there is no way to service this part as it's inside the torque converter.

If I was in your shoes I would first start off by scanning the codes with an ODB reader. A cheap amazon bluetooth device will give you a better idea what is going on.

Next up I would check the fluid level, which is a pain in the ass because there is no dipstick. you would have to get the trans up to temp and then check the fill hole. There should be a slight dribble of fluid coming out if it's at the proper level.

A transmission fluid flush and filter change can definitely help as there is NO SUCH THING AS LIFETIME FLUID.

Failing that, you would have to decide how long you want to keep the car for and "invest" accordingly.

A good friend of mine who is a mechanic went the used transmission route...twice, before he bought a brand new one from the dealer and called it a day.

If you want to keep the vehicle around for a while then I would seriously consider a new or fully rebuilt (with warranty) unit.

If you're uuhhh....let's call it adventurous, then swapping transmissions can be a fun way to spend many hours :bustingup

For transmission fluid many many people use the Valvoline Maxlife with great results. No need to buy magic BMW fluid because these are GM and ZF transmissions found in many non magical cars.

Good luck :thumbup:

If there is a rubber seal involved, ATP AT-205 is specifically designed to deal with that problem. I used in the crankcase of my m54 to basically stop the oil leak that was "getting out of control". (I can wait until the weather is nice to find and fix the leak now).

Before rebuilding a transmission, I would definitely try at-205 first.

No I didn't have any professional mechanic look at it. Reason being is I did not want to drive to their shop not knowing what the problem is I did not want to make matters worse. This is my second X5 but it's the first time I've experienced this type of problem.

The more I think about it and the way the transmission is acting it is very likely that the fluid is low.

So here's the question if it is low what synthetic transmission fluid do I add to it?. If adding fluid will correct the problem then yes I will go ahead with the service. Especially with that many miles on it.

I do appreciate your input and I thank you very much. I will try the things you've suggested and go from there.

You have the "GM" transmission 5L40E so Dexron III was the original transmission fluid for the trans. Dexron is no longer available but Dexron VI is the new fluid being used. Unless you do the fluid change yourself, you will have to leave the X overnight with the mechanic/shop. The temp of the fluid can't exceed a certain temp if you want to get the correct fill level. Blame this stupid fill method on the engineers or bean counters at BMW for not including a dipstick for the trans, but coming up with this stupid procedure instead. You would probably like to have the filter replace at this time. Just remember a lot of old trans fluid is retained in the torque converter.

Many people use the Valvoline Maxlife ATF

https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...ti-vehicle-atf

The transmission fill procedure is not complicated at all.

You need to have the transmission at normal operating temperature and when you unscrew the fill plug there should be a slight trickle of fluid coming out.

If you are worried about driving the vehicle then let the engine run until it comes up to temp (needle in the middle) and shift into each gear for a few seconds. R N D etc. Then check the fluid level.

Basically the trans fluid will expand when heated (like most fluid) so if you fill the transmission to the proper level while it's cold once you're driving around the fluid level will be too high.

The transmission shop that I deal with specializes in European cars and while I had my car there for a flush I was asking the guys all about the pain in the ass fill procedure. They said it's not that sensitive and proceeded to walk me through it on my car.

If you read how to do the fill procedure from the manual it sounds a LOT more complicated than what it really is.

Following...
My son's 2003 3.0i (230k) started throwing the same code (4th & 5th) and constantly going into limp mode not too long after I changed the driveshaft (after 2nd center bearing failure). I haven't had a lot of motivation to dig into it, but now thinking another fluid/filter service with the ATP AT-205. I've done the trans service twice before on it, but has been 50-60k since the last one. The first time I replaced center bearing I very carefully topped off the trans, so doubt it's just low.

BTW, we also had bank 1/2 codes a while back & it was due to gunked up CCV. I went the delete route following a post in another forum for E39. The "delete" was replacing the valve assembly with a PCV filter & various plugs/hose routing. Engine loved it!

The mechanical ZF transmission are pretty good.... overall.

Try this first before you start doing mechanical stuff. Unplug all electrical connections to the trans and clean and lube them. If you live in a climate of salt or if someone pulled there boat in an out of the water with the car chances the connecters are corroded.

The main connector that plugs in to the natural safety switch was my problem and made mine go into limp mode. I was then told the celinoids in the trans were bad. Simple to clean it, you can crawl under and do this, try that first. The neutral safety switch is on the outside of the transmission.

And yeah 100k change the trans filter and oil. If you do this remember to start the car, leave it running and add the final quart. The Valvoline Maxlife AT is good to use, have it in mine.

Just remember everything on this truck is monitored my millivolts, one bad connector is all it takes, even the electric fan motor can through a code.

au contraire mon ami

Not according to the TIS Bulletin issued by BMW for filling and checking the fluid level in their trans. The temp should be between 30C - 50C. If 100C is the boiling point of water 50C is only 122F. With a thermostat that is set to 195F that would be Waaaaaay over the maximum temp allowed.

Here's a link to the TIS

https://www.bimmerfest.com/attachmen...py-pdf.301615/

Watch out for the Cliff Claven on this board.

What does the temperature of boiling water have to do with anything? :dunno:

I'm familiar with the TIS as well as had this done several times by a reputable shop that walked me through it while we were under the car.

Everything I said is basically the same procedure as the TIS you linked.

- Bring trans to temp, check for fluid seeping out of fill hole

I'm not a big fan of passive aggressive so if you disagree with my opinion of what "up to temperature" is just say so...mon ami

You'll have to get used to UAN c-bass. Very knowledgeable and usually helpful. But definitely gives out info with his nose in the air. Is what it is. There's one of two on every forum. Read past the "extra" stuff and the info in his posts is usually on point. As he is quick to point out.

It would be so much easier if the spec was actually to bring the AT up to operating temp, i.e., with the engine warmed up, AT and ATF at a steady-state temp, having just driven it to the garage of your choice.

But for some reason, nobody does this. ZF and GM for the BMW, and same thing on Porsche and Mercedes I'm aware of have the temperature at which ATF level is set be a temperature that is far below normal operating temp.

The reason it matters is that the ATF will expand as it raises in temp, I believe with about a half quart difference between cold vs. hot for a ~10qt capacity. I don't know how much that difference matters, but it sure does get most people's attention.

I believe for the BMW (both ZF and GM ATs) that temp spec is 30-50*C, with 35*C as the actual target. As @upallnight correctly pointed out, that is FAR lower than "operating temperature." In fact, it is stone cold in many climates at certain times of the year. I think many people here in the US, where C vs. F is like a foreign language, and having numbers involved causes some panic and lack of clear thinking, leading people to go and buy pyrometers and OBD2 systems.

EDIT - and LOL, that last sentence is probably why @upallnight mentioned the boiling point of water. It might bring some calm and rational comparitive thinking to some of us in the USA who are not used to a foreign language like that. Not completely kidding :rofl:

This low temp spec makes it tough to get done properly at a shop. I can definitely believe that a shop would say operating temp is good, since that makes their job a lot faster. But it does not change the spec. It seems it would be a lot easier for everyone if the spec were at a temp closer to operating temp, and the fill hole was a few mm higher to account for that. But across all German ATs (and even the Porsche one I know of is an Aisin [Japanese] one, with a similar spec) I know of, they use the low temp spec.

I've seen on youtube where they use a bunch of fans to cool down a car+engine so they can get the guy out the door in only 4 hours. LOL. Waiting overnight will work as well.

Me, doing it myself in my driveway, my method is basically to
- day 1 - first purposely overfill the AT slightly, taking my time, with no concern about temp.
- day 2 - morning (relatively colder starting point) - Level set, much simplified procedure.

The day 1 overfilling is made possible by jacking the rear slightly higher than the front, so the fill hole (on my GM AT, on the left side towards the rear corner) is higher than the center of the pan.

Then, the next morning after everything is cold and the AT and ATF have shrunk, I do the following abbreviated procedure to set the level:

• Quick spin around the block, in all gears,
• in the driveway, jacked up level,
• idling, fill bolt out, and idle it until 35*C is very quickly reached (during this time, some ATF will be leaking out as it expands due to the temp rise), at which point I put the fill bolt back in.

The point of doing it that way is that the actual setting of the level is a much simpler procedure. No ATF needs to be added. Just removing the fill bolt (which did not even need to be tight) is simple enough that I can stop things as the temp rises through 35*C.

The trans fluid cooling is usually tied in with the radiator. If the coolant from the engine at operating temp is 195F. than the atf fluid at the radiator is close to the temp of the coolant mon ami.

The normal operating temp of the trans is NOT 30C to 50C temp. It is a lot hotter. Like you stated ATF expands when it is heated and contracts when it is cooled. So if you do your check at "Normal Operating temp" the ATF would have expanded considerably and if you let it dribble out, by the time it contracts when it has cooled, the fluid level will be LOW mon ami.

Like I warn people watch out for the Cliff Clavens on ths forum.

If you think that was "passive aggression" don't go into the Political forum. Just pointing out to a Newbie that is having a problem that you need to take any advice here with a grain of salt.

:rolleyes:

Here I was trying to make it simpler for someone to do a quick fluid check

P.S.

Everyone hates the French

Do Cliff some justice and spell his name right at least Amigo

So do you order "Freedom Fries" when you go to Mickie D? :bustingup

When the engine just reaches operating temp the mass of steel and aluminum will make for the transmission taking a good while to get up to the same temp if it's just acting as a heatsink. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the transmission would coincidentally hit 30-35 C right as the ECT hits 90c.

Of course every engine and every transmission will have different results, so unless you are *sure* that coincidence doesn't happen, the scientific approach is to do a measurement and find out.

My scanner will show transmission temp (I think the sensor is in the wiring loom setting in the oil pan), but I don't know if I can read the ECT at the same time.

As mentioned above, there is a very good chance that coincidentally the xm reaches 30-40C right when the coolant reaches 90.

I seem to recall reading 60c from transmission after driving around and the engine was full temp.

Wow...I forgot about that Americanism...good one

Maybe it's time to get some sleep :D

Just follow the tis, or ZF'/GM's fill procedure. Done it 5 times now, easy to follow as long as you can monitor trans temp.

I hang my foxwell out the left side door so I can see temp while filling on the floor. I do the cold fill, start it, top off, wait until 30*c (86*f), top off, cycle trans through gears (including manual mode) for 3 seconds each, get back under it and top off until fluid is dripping out when it hits 100-110*f. Done. That's for ZF trans but it sounds like the gm procedure is similar.

I think it will show ect simultaneously as trans temp. Going to be doing this procedure on our diesel e70 in the next week or so following transmission replacement. That's been a fun saga... Taking "while I'm in there" to new levels.

I do!
Usually from some liberal douchebag working there with some obscure college degree in some kind of gender studies. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

I've received a lot of good advice concerning my failing transmission and I thank everyone for helping me. After everything I have checked with it I regret to say that I will have the transmission shop rebuild my transmission. I have gone to this shop for 30+ years and I've never had a problem with their work. Unfortunately it is going to cost me $3,500 - $4,500 😞

Is a 2005 X5 even worth that kind of money?

It is worth spending that if you get a few more years use from it. It's often not about "market value" but your own balance of "what's it worth to ME" and the cost of a suitable replacement....

I often see people junk a car because of a potential $3,000 repair bill, to then go and spend $10,000 on a replacement vehicle... :confused:

+1.

I cannot get a similar replacement for less but I'd probably opt for a used whole xm. (if can find low enough miles and at least 6 mo. warranty). I would definitely fix my X5 if I had to.

We just sold wife's X5 "for scrap" basically because it apparently had the CCV plug up and pressurized the oil system and blew out all the seals. We turned that car into the tax and title for a 2012 E70.

We have this discussion with customers every day.

If you buy a $4,000 car to rep!ace it, what's to say you won't be in the same position in another 3 months?

If you want to replace it with a low mileage used car, you're looking at $10 - 15,000. Used car prices are through the roof. Aside from that, finding a well cared for used car is not that easy, and a job all of its own. New cars are triple that price.

Often, if the car is in decent shape, on balance, it does make sense to fix it and get a few more years out of it.

I do like the way you think Caryalon. So I may be crazy putting the money out on fixing the transmission, but the car itself is very nice well cared for yes I bought it used but hey it was nice when I bought it and it still is. So to fix the transmission yeah I'll get years out of it no problem because then it is like a brand new transmission again and I won't have to worry about it for a while except just the regular fluid filter change every so often.
Back in 1968 my Grandpa bought a Chrysler New Yorker brand new off the showroom floor. When unleaded gasoline came into Play we rebuilt the engine to run this lower quality gas. At that time the car had 200,000 miles on it. the car now has 535,000 original miles on it yes the transmission has been rebuilt as well and it went from my grandpa to my mom and it is now mine. To this day I still have my first car out of high School. It's a 1955 Porsche 356 pre A . continental coupe. And I recently acquired my dad's 1968 Turner GT fastback with a 390 big block in it with over 400,000 miles on it. So to answer the question on everybody's mind. Why am I fixing the transmission in a '05 X5? because I like my X5, I like my cars.. and it's cheaper than a car payment and I know what's going on with it. If I bought a used car I'm starting from scratch as far as knowing what the condition of the drivetrain is in and what kind of treatment it has had in the past. If I buy a new car I'm starting from scratch with payments which would include a high interest rate perhaps to pay back the loan higher insurance rates until the car is paid off also I would have to carry full coverage insurance. So yeah that's where I'm at.

When I first got my X5, I did a bunch of research including how much was a used transmission. I made one goof: when doing the math for ¢ per mile I didn't factor in premium gas: oops!

Happy accident because it may have stopped me from getting the car.

I was able to pay cash for my car, so even used never had a payment.

A few years ago I did a couple calculations; 1) at the current price of gas, how much per month and 2) at the price I paid, what would my payments have been with 20% down.

The answers were virtually identical, almost exactly $150.

So, by not having a used car payment my gas is free. (also with 20 yr old car, full coverage insurance with no deductable is $65/mo).

Your transmission will pay for itself. Just like my gas. (You'll have to pay for your gas for about 24 months while your non car payment pays off your transmission).

Follow up; I love my car. How much? Wife just acquired 2012 E70 with the 50i motor (400 HP 450 ft·lb of torque) and after driving it and it's indescribably joyous, it didn't diminish one bit how much I like my 196,000 mile 2001 E53.